Recent Lionel Aluminum cars

The cars sit high on the trucks and the distance from diaphrgm to diaphrgm is 3/4 inch so I put on Kadee couplers to close the gap down to 1/4 inch and I am not that bothered by the windows,to me how high the cars sit on the trucks is the worst now that I took care of the diaphrgm distance.I would still buy the Lionel cars over the MTH,they are notas generic.

Mikey

c.sam posted:

I gather that some have criticized the windows for not being flush with the carbody?  Is that accurate or is it that they are heavily tinted green?

There's been a lot of discussion about these windows. No, it's not that they're tinted, it's that they stick out from the surface of the cars. Essentially, the glazing (clear plastic pieces) is too big for the openings and the windows were glued on over the window openings, rather than inserted into the openings to make them flush with the outside of the car.  It's not a great look, but bothers some more than others. Personally, I'm looking forward to Lionel following up their 21" plastic passenger cars with 15" and 18" versions, which I would think would be happening fairly soon.

I agree with Mikey on the high trucks and big coupler gap on the Lionel cars. The windows are a minor blip for me. Interiors are good on both lines. Lionel uses full width diaphrams where appropiate. Lionel cars based on Budd and Pullman standard cars. MTH are all ACF. I don't know B&O used. 

Lionel has highly detailed underbodies and nicely done trucks despite the high bolsters. MTH are OK but a step down.

Pete

Can the Lionel cars be easily lowered a little?

I have some older MTH Santa Fe cars (2nd generation w/sprung trucks that appear to be the correct size) and the MTH set is 5 cars for less $$. AM planning to pull them with the Legacy B&O Sharks

Any photos please?

breezinup posted:

 Personally, I'm looking forward to Lionel following up their 21" plastic passenger cars with 15" ... versions, which I would think would be happening fairly soon.

Do you have this possibility....15" Aluminum cars...on good authority???  Ever since the benchmark producer for this size/type of passenger car, K-Line, ceased operations, I asked likely mfrs or recipients of the old tooling if there'd be any continuation.  After several years of 'Nope. No. Zip. Nada.  No demand.  Scale is in, shorties are out.  Too expensive to make/market.  etc., etc., etc., blah, blah.', I gave up asking, gave up hope.  

There was this 'flash in the pan' when Lionel did the Neil Young Texas Special and Pennsy sets a couple years past, but............apparently the market reception proved their point? =>

I've since decided to simply be thankful for what I do have of the best of the 15" cars,.......and be happy and at peace.

Finis.

KD

I was serious in considering the Lionel Congressional Ltd. Set but for the issues mentioned above as well as the 5 car set having a dome car and Lionel has pretty much conceeded the 18" sets to MTH and/or WBB. I have  not pulled the trigger. Maybe in the Future we will see either another run of GGD Congo cars or Lionel will issue them.

dkdkrd posted:

 

... Scale is in, shorties are out.  ...

I'm not 100% convinced of this.  Rather I think folks are simply being sold a bill of goods because that's what Lionel wants to produce right now.  I'd step out even a bit further on the limb and say most folks buying 21" passenger cars probably don't even have a large enough layout to do them justice.  And in many cases, these 21" cars will spend most of their life as shelf queens, after folks realize how they look on O-54 curves.

I just purchased a complete set of brand new Lionel 18" ESE passenger cars from the CCII days, and I can't wait to get them.  I will be selling my 8 GGD 21" aluminum ESE cars soon for a terrific price, because I prefer the appearance of 18" cars on my layout being built this year -- which has O-101 and O-92 curves on the two large "main" loops.  The outer loop will especially handle my Atlas-O CZ and Lionel Texas Special with their 21" cars just fine, but I really don't plan on purchasing too many more 21" passenger cars.  I did pre-order Lionel's latest Penn Central passenger cars -- the ones with the mixed paint schemes -- because I liked the uniqueness of it.  But I've pretty much passed on everything else 21".  I also have Lionel's AFT on order, but I like the fact that most of that train will actually be the display cars based on 18" baggage cars. 

So in my book, Lionel's 18" aluminum cars still rank right up there at the top my list.  And the entire "windows thing" is much ado about nothing IMHO, except by those who want to scrutinize products with a magnifying glass instead of enjoying them on their layout.

MTH 18" passenger cars are made of ABS, and I think they look great.  The new ones still have detailed interiors WITH people, and they also come with LED lighting now.  I plan to pre-order MTH's RockyMountaineer locomotive (in the newest paint scheme) that was recently catalog'd.  And I'm really hoping MTH follows through quickly with matching RockyMountaineer passenger cars in 18" ABS using existing tooling.  If I recall, MTH has already also produced 18" high-level cars too in other roadnames years ago.  So if they resurrect that tooling for the high-level RockyMountaineer cars, I'd be perfectly satisfied -- even though they might not be rivet-for-rivet replica's of the real RockyMountaineer Gold Leaf Service high-level cars.

David

Still no photos out there in you guys's possession?  Any road name so I can visualize the 'sitting too high' on the trucks?

That comment has really caused me to hesitate as I would like to have a set but hate 'high-water' trains!

Sam, I have Lionel SP, Santa Fe, and NYC ESE 18" cars. I found these pictures handy. I guess it depends what characteristics are most important to you. I like the Lionel cars as they are closest to prototype. SP's original Daylight cars were fluted and made by Pullman. They also had the full with diaphrams. In 3 rail only Lionel and 3rd Rail modeled the correct cars. MTH cars are nice but differ from the prototype in too many ways. Maybe their B&O cars are closer.

Lionel:

MTH

Pete

c.sam posted:

Can the Lionel cars be easily lowered a little?

They can, and, there was a detailed how-to here on the forum a long time ago when the 18" cars first came out. Sorry, that I can never remember who did it. He was a big NYC fan, that I do remember. I printed it out, but, it would take a lot of scrounging to find it.

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

So in my book, Lionel's 18" aluminum cars still rank right up there at the top my list.  And the entire "windows thing" is much ado about nothing IMHO, except by those who want to scrutinize products with a magnifying glass instead of enjoying them on their layout.

Holy schmoly! I can see those windows sticking out from all the way over here and without a magnifying glass! 
Knowhatimean Vern! 

I've had a few Weaver 21" cars. Sold them on eBay, and somebody here got them for a loooow price. As I recall, you can see the center rail when on O72 curves when overhead, kinda ruins it for me. My mind is also warped by an incident way back in the 1970's at DuPage county fair grounds, a set of painted aluminum IC Lionel passenger cars, and the guy didn't want any kids (read that me, at the time) near his cars. Holy cow, cars so delicate you can't use them. Forget that. Solid plastic is where its at, especially if you run on the floor and risk the car being kicked. So yes, as I have said many times, big fan of MTH plastic 18" cars. Good enough for my middle-aged eyes. A seven car set (5+2) is still pretty darn long.

You want a hard set to find, MTH 18" Northern Pacific plastic passenger cars in the Raymond Loewy two tone green paint job. Or the Lionel George Bush presidential SD70???, inspired by the Raymond Loewy Air Force One paint job. Guy had an eye for design, that's for sure.

Not gonna deny, the cars in the above pictures sure are beauties.

Here are some photos of my K Line B&O 15 inchers which I think are better than the Lionel or MTH.

Lew Schneider

dkdkrd posted:

breezinup posted:

 Personally, I'm looking forward to Lionel following up their 21" plastic passenger cars with 15" ... versions, which I would think would be happening fairly soon.

Do you have this possibility....15" Aluminum cars...on good authority???  Ever since the benchmark producer for this size/type of passenger car, K-Line, ceased operations, I asked likely mfrs or recipients of the old tooling if there'd be any continuation.  After several years of 'Nope. No. Zip. Nada.  No demand.  Scale is in, shorties are out.  Too expensive to make/market.  etc., etc., etc., blah, blah.', I gave up asking, gave up hope.  

There was this 'flash in the pan' when Lionel did the Neil Young Texas Special and Pennsy sets a couple years past, but............apparently the market reception proved their point? =>

I've since decided to simply be thankful for what I do have of the best of the 15" cars,.......and be happy and at peace.

KD

You misread the comment. Not 15"aluminum cars, but 15" plastic cars. Aluminum cars are gone, and will no longer be manufactured, as Lionel has officially stated. But I'm sure at some point, hopefully soon, Lionel will make 15" and 18" plastic passenger cars. Fact is, relatively few operators across the country have giant layouts that can accomodate 21" cars. 

Not sure what you mean by market reception proving a point with the Neil Young sets. Try to find these sets. They've long ago sold out, and are hard to find. I've been trying for quite a while to find a Neil Young Texas Special set, without success. In any case, any new similar passenger sets will have plastic passenger cars. 

Norton posted:

Sam, I have Lionel SP, Santa Fe, and NYC ESE 18" cars. I found these pictures handy. I guess it depends what characteristics are most important to you. I like the Lionel cars as they are closest to prototype. SP's original Daylight cars were fluted and made by Pullman. They also had the full with diaphrams. In 3 rail only Lionel and 3rd Rail modeled the correct cars.

Lionel has NOT modeled the correct Southern Pacific Daylight cars. ONLY Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot has modeled the CORRECT full set of SP Daylight cars, including the three section articulated diner, the two section articulated chair cars, and the various lunch-counter-lounge & observation cars.

MTH cars are nice but differ from the prototype in too many ways. Maybe their B&O cars are closer.

 

 

Pete