Replacing Atlas-O Switch

Not sure how do that but I would like to know why you want to replace the Atlas switch. I recently purchased quite a few of the Atlas switches and they are now on the layout waiting to be wired and ballasted. 

Here is a PDF diagram of a Ross #8 switch.   Click on the underlined phrase.   Maybe as close as you would get to what I could find on the Atlas 7.5.   I could be wrong and often.  

Mike CT posted:

Here is a PDF diagram of a Ross #8 switch.   Click on the underlined phrase.   Maybe as close as you would get to what I could find on the Atlas 7.5.   I could be wrong and often.  

Thanks Mike, I will check it out.  Tom

Joeceleb posted:

Not sure how do that but I would like to know why you want to replace the Atlas switch. I recently purchased quite a few of the Atlas switches and they are now on the layout waiting to be wired and ballasted. 

I love Atlas-O track.  The switches, not so much.  Initially, my entire layout was Atlas-O.  Overtime, I have been replacing the Atlas-O switches with those manufactured by Ross.  I used to be an MTH dealer and now have a wide assortment of locomotives.  So the track and switches get subjected to a variety of wheel arrangements and I would experience shorts and derailments with some of the locomotives.  When I swapped out a problematic Atlas O switch for a Ross, the problem would go away.

My latest problem is that I have two Atlas-O #7.5 turnouts for a siding.  Absolutely gorgeous to look at.  But, I had to install a circuit board to cleverly apply power to dead rails to allow some of my medium size MTH premier locomotives to pass through the turnout with uninterrupted power.  Some of the Ross turnouts say that a circuit board 'may be" required, but from my experience they have worked just fine without one.

The reason I am now looking at replacing the 7.5 turnouts that have been nicely ballasted is that they have been failing to switch.  I have gotten in the mode of toggling the switch controller a few times in both directions to ensure that the turnout was fully set.  Well last night, this didn't work, and a double headed GG-1 coal consists plowed into the back of another freight train parked on a siding.  Shorted out the Z4000 and now I am trying to figure out how to restore output power to the Z4000 circuit that was servicing the site of the collision.

I also had to reject a 45 degree Atlas O cross over in favor of one from Ross because of arc shorting.

BTW, I used Ross roadbed with the Atlas O track and then ballasted with an eye towards keeping the track ties clean.  I have attached a picture of my garage layout ... work in progress.  Tom

Track spacing doesn't appear to be an issue so any Ross #6 or #8 should work, but you could use an Atlas #5 and maintain the spacing.

Jan

Jan posted:

Track spacing doesn't appear to be an issue so any Ross #6 or #8 should work, but you could use an Atlas #5 and maintain the spacing.

Jan

Thanks for your reply Jan.

As I plan for the change from Atlas-O #7.5 to probably Ross #6 (because it doesn't require a relay to avoid roller pickup issues), it isn't clear to me what curved section I should use to bring the turnout track direction back to a parallel orientation with the straight direction.  With the Atlas-O track I use a O-81 7.5 degree section.  Can someone tell me how to do this hopefully with a fixed track section(s)?

Also, a question about terminology.  I noticed that the PDF files for the Ross turnouts have an angle shown on the diagram for the turnout.  For No. 6 it's 9.5 degrees and it's 7 degrees for No. 8.  For the Altas-O No. 7.5, the curved track that makes the turnout path parallel to the straight position is 7.5 degrees (maybe just a coincidence that the turnout No. is the same as the angle of the curve).  Is there a simple explanation for what the No. associated with the turnout means (geometrically)?

Thanks,

Tom

When I moved 11 years ago I built my new layout with Atlas track. I had Gargraves track with Ross switches on my old layout. I wanted everything to match on the new layout so I used Atlas switches. What a mistake!  I am still pulling up switches in very tough spots to replace jumpers that have unscrewed. The plastic switch machines are cheaply made and unreliable as well. Some people have said they've gotten better over time but I wouldn't try them again. If I build another layout I would go back to Ross without a doubt.

Gerry posted:

When I moved 11 years ago I built my new layout with Atlas track. I had Gargraves track with Ross switches on my old layout. I wanted everything to match on the new layout so I used Atlas switches. What a mistake!  I am still pulling up switches in very tough spots to replace jumpers that have unscrewed. The plastic switch machines are cheaply made and unreliable as well. Some people have said they've gotten better over time but I wouldn't try them again. If I build another layout I would go back to Ross without a doubt.

I feel your pain Gerry.  I have replaced over $600 worth of Atlas O switches thus far and am looking at another $200 plus time required to remove and replace.  And some of the switches are in hard to reach spots.  Ugh.

I have a growing concern about moving forward with ballasting my track which has 12 Atlas switches. I have also sent them an email about my concerns regarding their switches not working properly but have not received a reply yet. I love the way the track looks but functionality take precedence. I also love there rolling stock and engine. Maybe they should drop out of the business of selling switch tracks. TY for everyone's input.

Tom Jasper posted:

I would like to replace an 6022 Atlas-O #7.5 right turnout with a compatible Ross turnout.  Can someone tell me the Ross product number that I should use? 

Thanks, 

Tom Jasper

As already noted, the Ross #220 & #221 , #8 are the closest. They are about an inch shorter than the Atlas switch on the thru and have a 7° turnout.

So, further track replacement on the thru and turnout will be required to fill-in.

My experience with the Atlas switches has been the opposite of most of yours in this thread. I have had very few problems. The problems I had were all with used switches and they had the problems when I got them. I was able to fix all but one, which had a missing rail. Atlas had all the parts and was very helpful in getting me the correct parts I needed. I have been very happy with mine, but I will be buying new ones from now on. Not much savings by the time you add parts and a new switch machine.

I have only O-54 & O-72, I don't have any of the numbered or curved switches. I have been happy with the ones I have though, once I got them fixed. I have not had a problem with any that I purchased new. My engines are all new from the last 5-6 years, all diesel, no steam, mostly scale, mostly MTH PS3, only a couple of Lionel Legacy. I also run all command control (DCS & Legacy), no conventional. Don't know if that makes a difference, just thought I would add what I run on my layout.

Also, for the Ross switch curved piece needed for their switches, I believe they make a special piece for those to get back to straight. I forget what they call them, you may have to call Ross, but they have them where a non-standard curve is needed.

Moonman posted:

As already noted, the Ross #220 & #221 , #8 are the closest. They are about an inch shorter than the Atlas switch on the thru and have a 7° turnout.

So, further track replacement on the thru and turnout will be required to fill-in.

Thanks Moonman,

I had a follow up question that you may be able to answer.  I am using a layout design program to change from #7.5 to #8 (or #6).  But it is not obvious to me how to make the turnout direction parallel to the straight direction.  Maybe its just a mater of accepting an imperfect 0.5 to 2 degree misalignment.

Tom

rtr12 posted:

My experience with the Atlas switches has been the opposite of most of yours in this thread. I have had very few problems. The problems I had were all with used switches and they had the problems when I got them. I was able to fix all but one, which had a missing rail. Atlas had all the parts and was very helpful in getting me the correct parts I needed. I have been very happy with mine, but I will be buying new ones from now on. Not much savings by the time you add parts and a new switch machine.

I have only O-54 & O-72, I don't have any of the numbered or curved switches. I have been happy with the ones I have though, once I got them fixed. I have not had a problem with any that I purchased new. My engines are all new from the last 5-6 years, all diesel, no steam, mostly scale, mostly MTH PS3, only a couple of Lionel Legacy. I also run all command control (DCS & Legacy), no conventional. Don't know if that makes a difference, just thought I would add what I run on my layout.

Also, for the Ross switch curved piece needed for their switches, I believe they make a special piece for those to get back to straight. I forget what they call them, you may have to call Ross, but they have them where a non-standard curve is needed.

Thanks for your feedback and I will call Ross tomorrow.  They do have special track sections listed on their website, but when I use them on a layout design app I cannot get the turnout to go parallel.

Good to hear that you are NOT having problems with Atlas-O Switches.  They do favor diesels over large steamers pulling a long string of cars.

Tom

Tom Jasper posted:

Moonman posted:

As already noted, the Ross #220 & #221 , #8 are the closest. They are about an inch shorter than the Atlas switch on the thru and have a 7° turnout.

So, further track replacement on the thru and turnout will be required to fill-in.

Thanks Moonman,

I had a follow up question that you may be able to answer.  I am using a layout design program to change from #7.5 to #8 (or #6).  But it is not obvious to me how to make the turnout direction parallel to the straight direction.  Maybe its just a mater of accepting an imperfect 0.5 to 2 degree misalignment.

Tom

Well, that's the rub. You need 7° to turn back to parallel and a slight extension of the divergence with a short straight to set the center rail to center rail spacing.

You can try half of Ross TR445 for 4.5" center or half of a Ross TR440 for a 4" center. They are 14° arc curves.

I don't know how to get the Ross switches straightened out in the track planning software? Moonman, DoubleDaz and a few others around here are the experts at the track planning. I have RR-Track, but after 5-6 years I still struggle with it about half of the time.

Good luck and I hope Ross works out better for you.

Which app are you using? Can it make curves or cut curves? I was interrupted by the dog. I am trying to determine the radius of the TR 445. It's around a 130d or a 60" radius with an arc of 7°.

Moonman posted:

Which app are you using? Can it make curves or cut curves? I was interrupted by the dog. I am trying to determine the radius of the TR 445. It's around a 130d or a 60" radius with an arc of 7°.

I am using anyrail version 6.  Their website is anyrail.com .  I have been using it for several years, but am only scratching the surface of it's capabilities.  I like that they have periodic updates and have a wide variety of track libraries to choose from (atlas O, Ross, etc etc) and it's easy to use for fundamental stuff.  My layout is 3-dimensional, but I haven't been able to spend enough time to be able to use this feature.   I used to use the one that atlas-O promoted rr??  But then it went dormant.  I attached a screen shot of my garage layout that I am trying to tweak and a picture of it.  The screen shot is of the upper section which is O-72 outer and O-54 inner.  There's also a lower under layout loop in O-54.  Wish I had more room for a round table and a two tack main line and more of a city.

it's a flex piece curved at 280" (wow) radius for 7° of arc or the ross#8, an atlas 10" , the ross TR445 cut in half to arrive at 4" center rail spacing

I see that you had the TR445 highlighted. I don't know if anyrail will let you cut it, but you can see in my example where they intersect near the first 4 in the part number. That's where you would cut it. A different combo would be needed to arrive at a wider center rail spacing. I am using SCARM, but you can do this in RRT. I am fairly certain that Anyrail has a flex track tool. The Atlas is almost impossible to flex, so you can use the Ross TR solution and cut only one track there and one to fit the thru.

Moonman posted:

it's a flex piece curved at 280" (wow) radius for 7° of arc or the ross#8, an atlas 10" , the ross TR445 cut in half to arrive at 4" center rail spacing

I see that you had the TR445 highlighted. I don't know if anyrail will let you cut it, but you can see in my example where they intersect near the first 4 in the part number. That's where you would cut it. A different combo would be needed to arrive at a wider center rail spacing. I am using SCARM, but you can do this in RRT. I am fairly certain that Anyrail has a flex track tool. The Atlas is almost impossible to flex, so you can use the Ross TR solution and cut only one track there and one to fit the thru.

 

Moonman,

I'll let you know what I find out from Ross.  At this point I am leaning towards a #4 switch for which there is a curved track section (TR445) that doesn't require cutting and nicely matches the geometry of how I have the Atlas O #7.5 designed into the layout.

Tom

Tom Jasper posted:

Moonman posted:

it's a flex piece curved at 280" (wow) radius for 7° of arc or the ross#8, an atlas 10" , the ross TR445 cut in half to arrive at 4" center rail spacing

I see that you had the TR445 highlighted. I don't know if anyrail will let you cut it, but you can see in my example where they intersect near the first 4 in the part number. That's where you would cut it. A different combo would be needed to arrive at a wider center rail spacing. I am using SCARM, but you can do this in RRT. I am fairly certain that Anyrail has a flex track tool. The Atlas is almost impossible to flex, so you can use the Ross TR solution and cut only one track there and one to fit the thru.

 

Moonman,

I'll let you know what I find out from Ross.  At this point I am leaning towards a #4 switch for which there is a curved track section (TR445) that doesn't require cutting and nicely matches the geometry of how I have the Atlas O #7.5 designed into the layout.

Tom

There you go! Most like #4 in the yard or on sidings.  The #8's or the Atlas 7.5 degree eat a lot of space to come back to a parallel. That combo brings it to a 4.5" center rail.

You finally forced to download the Anyrail trial. may as well try another.

Good luck!

The key to numbered turnouts is that the divergent path moves out 1 unit for # units forward.  So a #6 is 1 unit out for every 5 units straight.  The calculation for angle is the arctangent of 1/#.  The calculator program provided with a Windows PC can do the calculation.  Remember to convert to degrees.  But I've done the calculation for the available numbered turnouts.

To return to parallel tracks you'll need to cut a curve of the appropriate radius to the required degrees of curvature.

Jan

Jan posted:

The key to numbered turnouts is that the divergent path moves out 1 unit for # units forward.  So a #6 is 1 unit out for every 5 units straight.  The calculation for angle is the arctangent of 1/#.  The calculator program provided with a Windows PC can do the calculation.  Remember to convert to degrees.  But I've done the calculation for the available numbered turnouts.

#4	14.0°
#5	11.3°
#6	9.5°
#7.5	7.6°
#8	7.1°
#10	5.7°

To return to parallel tracks you'll need to cut a curve of the appropriate radius to the required degrees of curvature.

Jan

Jan, this is absolutely awesome.  Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this.  Tom

Just to close out this thread ... I have decided to try to repair the Atlas-O #7.5 switch with parts from my Atlas-O switch bone yard.  Given that I have already ballasted the track (thankfully in conjunction with "Rossbed"), I can remove the problematic switch, repair and test it, then reinstall it without significantly damaging the earlier ballast job.  While I would much prefer a Ross turnout, there is no direct one-for-one replacement.  Going down the Ross replacement path would require a slightly different track route, re-ballasting and a small angle misalignment because there is no curved transition track for the Ross #6, 8.  The #8 turnout is only 1/2 degree off, so this would certainly be acceptable.  The #6 turnout would likely require a custom curve track to be cut (ugh).  Tom

Good luck with the repair, hope it works out for you. Atlas has parts if you need them, but you have to talk to one of their engineers to get them. They are not listed anywhere on the website. They helped me out a lot with the used switches I have. I believe I talked to Bill, but I can't remember his last name. He was very helpful.