Restoring a Lionel PRR Prewar Steam Switcher & All Things Related to Keeping Them Running! Spring 2024

I had a question asked about repairing a broken marker light on a 228.  The answer is a little complicated because there are at least three different replacement marker lights out there. The marker lights are made of brass. I assume they are a screw machine product. If possible, I use a file to get a flat smooth surface on the broken part. Then I center punch trying my best to hit the center of the part. Then I drill the broken part out. The zinc appears to have gotten quite hard, so in my experience I have not had trouble with the drill walking into the zinc. The old brass post cuts like soft butter.  

The size of the drill depends on the replacement marker light I am going to use. I have run across four distinct marker lights, all requiring a different drill size. I do not want a tight fit, as the marker lights on the boiler have to be removed to change the boiler hand rails.  The first marker light I identify as early prewar.  It is 0.076” diameter over the shaft and 0.078” over the serrations.  To install one of these I would use a #48 drill, 0.076” diameter. The second marker light I identify as late prewar. It is 0.076” diameter over the shaft and 0.086” over the serrations. To install one of these I would use a #45 drill, 0.082” in diameter.  The third marker light I believe is made for the 1989 remake.  It is the part most commonly available. It is 0.086” diameter over the shaft and 0.088” over the serrations.  To install one of these I would use a #44 drill, 0.086 in diameter.  On this application it might be best to drill out the broken post with the #48 drill first, then open up the zinc die casting with the #44 drill as a secondary operation.   The forth marker light is probably from the repro market and is of such poor quality that I would not install one. On any of these, if it is felt that the marker light is going in too tight, file the serrations to a smaller diameter, maybe putting a little taper on them. If the marker light is loose in the hole I use a little Walter’s Goo. This will hold the marker light in, but not so tight that it cannot be removed if necessary.  When installing the 1989 marker light on a prewar loco, even if drilling out a broken stub is not required, the shaft is so large that the hole needs to be drilled out to get the new part in.  

In a technical note regarding the prototype B6 switcher, I do not know if these are marker lights or classification lights. Maybe class lights on the loco and markers on the tender?  It would be interesting to know for sure.

David,

  Thanks again for the thoroughness of your post on the various drill bits.

  In return for that, I have this from my friend Mac who says about your question of class vs. marker lights for the PRR B6 switcher classes:

Classification lights were boiler mounted ,as it denoted class of train and whether it had the right of way.  As switchers didn’t get priority they normally had marker lights only.  Originally mounted only on the pilot or tender these normally showed as red as it was seldom doing more than switching various industries or handling locals.  They were Pyle national markers.  However, during the 40’s pilot mounted markers were often replaced with boiler mounts  which were smaller almost can like mounted on a bracket above the handrails smoke box side below the stack and generator.  ---Mac

Tom

Reviving this thread a little.  I went train hunting today and came back with a decent collection.  There were two unusual items in it. A boxed 394 Beacon with red base and silver tower, which I have not seen before.

The big prize was a 231 0-6-0 Switcher.  As far as I can tell, it is pretty scarce.  The shell was off the frame and I can see that it will need work on the E unit, some couplers on the engine and tender, and probably some parts for the tender.  I can't seem to find out if it should be a bell ringer but that part is definitely not there.

What I need is a parts diagram for this engine.  I was not able to find it on-line but thought the experts on this thread might know where to get a parts diagram so I can start to figure out what I need. 

Am I crazy trying to fix this myself or should I turn it over to an expert?  I can do some general work but this may be over my head.

Thanks for any help.

Unique and delicate e-unit in the line of the switchers.  Same one used in oo gauge. Fingers are fragile and parts scarce if available at all. The 233 is one if the tougher ones to find with the primary difference in the brush plate/number of plugs and the tender  where the major mechanical differences lie. They used the dc current surge to either do remote reversing or uncoupling and also different coupler heights! Interesting marketing with the 227,228,230,231,232 and 233 and of course the  701 scale switcher

Post some pictures working on these isnt rocket science and i have some parts and repair and service these

Also they came with or without a bell. Tender shoukd be stamped on frame if correct: 2233T or 2233 B

Congratulations, 231 is the most difficult switcher to find. It was made for only one year, 1939, and has the high manual couplers. It was the strip down version and did not sell well. If your couplers are missing, that will be the most difficult item to find.  The couplers from the other locos will work, but the 231 has the 700E brush plate with only one plug.  The left hand plug on the other switchers was to operate the front coupler, which was manual on the 231.  Denis Waldron had some 231 couplers.  His parts all went to Trainz when he died, and they are very difficult to work with when it comes to looking for individual parts.

As Jagrick said, the e-unit is a OO part.  Be very careful with the contact fingers, there are no replacements. To get drum off, the shoulder screw is threaded into the fiber plate.  Use a nut driver to unscrew the lock nut, while holding the screw with a screw driver.  With the nut off, then take the screw out. With the drum out you can clean up the copper buttons on the fiber plate. If you are going to solder new wires in to the contact plate, do that with the drum removed. The drum fingers are with silver plate or solid silver. When cleaning remove as little metal as possible.  When you put the drum back on, tighten the screw just enough to get good contact with the fingers, but not so tight that it will not turn freely. Then hold the screw in that position while tightening the nut with the nut driver.

Most everything about this loco probably has been discussed above. See following for parts list. Some parts from the 1989 remake are interchangeable, some are not.

@lionelflyer posted:

Reviving this thread a little.  I went train hunting today and came back with a decent collection.  There were two unusual items in it. A boxed 394 Beacon with red base and silver tower, which I have not seen before.

The big prize was a 231 0-6-0 Switcher.  As far as I can tell, it is pretty scarce.  The shell was off the frame and I can see that it will need work on the E unit, some couplers on the engine and tender, and probably some parts for the tender.  I can't seem to find out if it should be a bell ringer but that part is definitely not there.

What I need is a parts diagram for this engine.  I was not able to find it on-line but thought the experts on this thread might know where to get a parts diagram so I can start to figure out what I need.

Am I crazy trying to fix this myself or should I turn it over to an expert?  I can do some general work but this may be over my head.

Thanks for any help.

Yes, please post pictures so we can take a look.

My opinion is that you should let an expert do any wiring work. These locomotives, in my opinion, are beyond complex. David J., who is such an expert, posted above has been very kind to post many of his repairs on this post, if it helps you. Having said that, I have a friend who used the "Motor Doctor" for a different Lionel engine and he was very happy. I have emailed the owner back and forth a few times and he seems to be a nice enough guy and competent, I just have not needed his services so far.

Good luck!

Tom

I am replacing the wiring on a 227 switcher and would like to convert/replace the prewar front coupler with a postwar  coupler.  I have had no success in finding such item from my usual parts sources.  Anyone have what I need?  Thanks for looking.  My e-mail address is accurate as listed.

I have a 228 that I have disassembled and repaired.  See my notes on the 228 engine.  Many of the 18000 parts will work on these engines. Those with 227 or 700E prefix on the part numbers.    On my engine I had to fabricate a coupler mount for a postwar coupler.  It didn't have a coupler when I got it.    Once cleaned and problems corrected, they are nice runners. 

I found a NOS brush plate for these engines in a parts bin, the equivalent of finding hens teeth.   The guy said $2, I couldn't do that to him and gave him more. 

The different numbers refered to the options of high/low coupler height, bell ringing/no bell, Teledyne couplers or Magic electrol for E-unit activation or standard 5th rail coupler activation only.  One of the wires to the engine was to connect the couplers.    I think the tenders all had a light.   the Teledyne and Magic Electrol both used the same small "DC" relay in the tender, it was wired to couplers or the e-unit, but not both.   1662,1663, 201, 203 were different designs but used the Teledyne, Magic Electrol, or Bell funcitons in their smaller tenders.

The catalogs explained the Magic Electrol was so you could run 2 trains at the same time.   It didn't carry on in Postwar models.   Neither did the Teledyne coupler control. 

Hey David,

What problems have you had with "His parts all went to Trainz when he died, and they are very difficult to work with when it comes to looking for individual parts." ?

I am guessing that would be if you email our customer service department and ask if we have a particular part that we don't have listed on our website? Yes, that would be a problem. BTW you can use our Wishlist function (you need to login [Free]) to be notified when we restock a particular part if we have ad it before and it is in our database/catalog.

Currently we have around 20 or 30 pallets of parts from Tebolt, Waldron, Rossbach, Pride Lines, and several more smaller parts deals. So we may have something, but until we get to it and identify and put it into our inventory system, we literally have no idea where it may be.

The good news is we have recently expanded the team to 7 full-time team members + 2 summer helpers working on just parts. Identifying them (trying really hard to get the correct original part number), fixing, them, assembling them, counting them, photoing them, entering them in the system, and putting them away. We currently are adding about 200 parts per day (both new ones and adding quantity) and I plan to get that to 300 per day in the coming months.

So, it is pretty crazy, but we are hacking through it!

If there is any other issues let me know.

It is the most challenging part of the company, but I am pretty sure I was born with a defective gene that makes me want to provide the best and most incredible train parts selection imaginable online ...

Thanks!

Hi Scott,

   I agree 100% with what David said, and need to say I have bought several items (happily) from Trainz, including a nice Lionel prewar switcher.I believe David is referring to the parts supply from our friend Dennis Waldron.

   However, when I asked for a prewar front coupler assembly for these switchers, knowing that you guys had the Dennis Waldron collection of parts, this was the exchange and she might have been the third person involved in my original email (and I sent a good picture of a similar prewar front coupler assembly):

Hi Tom,

Thanks for your patience. Our parts department is processing this deal daily. Due to the number of items, it's going to take extra time to process. Unfortunately, we do not know when we will get to the parts you're looking for. I would suggest checking our listings daily. If you need further assistance, please let us know.

In Your Service,

XXXXX
Customer Service

On Wednesday, November 17, 2021 at 9:30 PM, Tom.panettiere@purchase.edu wrote...

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

I X'd out the person's name to be fair (contact me on my email if you need to know), but this email request was from 2021!!!...so, that begs us to ask, why is it taking so long?

Thanks,

Tom

Hi Scott, the problem that both you and Tom identified is the same problem I experience.  Trainz has purchased several old line parts suppliers.  Parts I have purchased from these people for years go off the market and are gone for years.  These suppliers had online lists and sold parts regularly, there parts must be organized and labeled, yet there is no way to contact anybody at Trainz and access parts that we all know exist.  

I am a regular buyer of parts from Trainz and have purchased a few parts that I know came from George Tebolt or Denis Waldron.  But I know there are so many more parts there, just no way to get to them.  Dealing with Trainz is not like dealing with Jeff Kane or Bill Harrison.  When I call these men looking for parts they know what I am looking for, can discuses my problem, and can suggest alternative solutions, even suggest other venders.  

Trainz is a valuable resource which I use regularly.  But the loss of supplies of parts which I have counted on in the past is difficult to work around.  

David Johnston

On rewiring these switchers, I have rewired 10 or so and have been happy with the results. From my experience I make the following recommendations. Do not use wire that is too large. There is not the space in this loco and the flexibility of the smaller wire is needed. I used 22 gauge solid push back cloth insulated wire. This is the same wire Lionel used when they built the loco.   It would be best to keep the same colors as Lionel used, the two wires from the e-unit to the brush holders is yellow and the wire from the e-unit to the field connection is green.  All the other wires are black. The wire from the front coupler to the brush plate should be cloth insulated super flex. The only color available is black, which is correct.

Where the wires go from the area of the e-unit to the brush plate is difficult routing as there is little clearance under the front cab wall and over the front motor plate. Three wires need to go to the right and three to the left.   The power wire, which goes from the headlight, then to the two collector roller assembly, and on to the right hand plug on the brush plate, I make up as a single harness. Where the wire attaches to the two solder lugs I make a 180 degree turn and put this through the lug. Then fold the two wires over and solder them to the lug. Do not forget to slide the short piece of fabric loom over the two parallel wires before attaching the lug. This will slid over the lug after it is attached to the collector assembly.

The motor needs to be fully serviced, reinstalled and tested prior to connecting the wires to it. Using the brush plate as a terminal board was Lionel’s big mistake on this loco. It makes servicing the motor impossible without disconnecting many wires first. As I indicated above, remove the e-unit drum prior to soldering the wires to the e-unit to avoid heat damage. On the fiber contact plate, the lower left contact should be connected to a wire coming from the e-unit coil, then it goes down to a rivet on the e-unit frame.  This wire provides the frame connection for both the motor and the e-unit. The connection up and to the right is where the green wire from the field is connected. The upper left and lower right terminals are where the two yellow wires from the brush holders go.   The other connection from the motor field goes to the right hand plug on the brush plate, which is center rail power.

On using parts from the 18000, the 1989 remake, some times Lionel used the original part number on parts that are interchangeable with the original prewar switchers.  Sometimes they used the original part numbers on parts that are not interchangeable.  And sometimes they used new numbers on parts that are identical to the original parts.  But the strangest one is they used the 701 numbers on the wheels, which are nearly identical to the original 227 wheels, not the original 701 wheels.  I think they kept original numbers on all the gearing, but they changed the pressure angle to 20 degrees from the original 14.5 pressure angle.  Gears with the two different pressure angles might mix depending on how worn the gear teeth are and how much slop there is in the center distance.  

As for changing to post war couplers, on the tender this is usually done by putting on post war trucks.  They have smaller wheels so the tender sits lower.  If you can live with the way this looks, a “S” bend will have to be put into the drawbar to get to connect to the loco.  To raise the tender on the post war trucks, there is a filler part that is used on the postwar crane trucks to raise the crane.  It looks like a thick washer with a grooved pin on top for the horseshoe washer.  On the bottom there is a pin that is intended to be clinched into the postwar truck frame.  For the front of the locomotive, go up about 5 pages in this thread and there is information on how to make the front coupler out of currently available parts.  The one part that might be a problem is the bracket that screws to the frame.  I believe this bracket was used on other locos and can be found. I would have to do additional research.

I have not posted in some time due to life getting in the way, mainly retirement back in October.

Happy holidays to everyone who has found this topic helpful and/or interesting.

I hope to be posting more soon. If Santa brings you a Lionel prewar steam switcher, you know where to post...here!

Tom