RESULTS Of The Recent Survey Concerning An Open Discussion Category

Thank you for sanity

Yeah.  This forum is about trains.

Dennis

I'm pretty sure that sanity would not have prevailed in many conversations in a forum like that. It was for that reason and not the BAM that I voted against it. I pictured smoke coming out of Alan's and Rich's ears trying to moderate.

Trains win again.

TRAINS !!

Excellent !

Just for the record, i'm not opposed for paying an extra dollar, nor for access to this form, I am however , apposed to allowing topics that are not train related.  There sometime enough controversy surrounding train topics, we don't need to add fuel to the fire.  

Thanks for keeping this a train form!

Yeaaaaaah!!!Thank you God!

First, I'd like to say thank-you to Alan for keeping an open mind and taking the steps he did to research this on behalf of his subscribers.

Second, I was one of those who voted for it.  One of the comments on this thread completely baffles me.  If OGR wasn't willing to handle the moderation do you think they would have floated the option?  No interest in the sub- forum just don't read it.  I've never ventured to several of the  sub-forums - should I have railed against anything not O-Gauge upon their creation? The company isn't in business to other gauges. (Rhetorical).   I can certainly understand those who simply wish for the forum to remain about trains.

Regardless, as a GUEST on this forum I will continue to follow our hosts' wishes in how I participate.  

Regards,

Greg

A good call. I could see how fast the category would become a nightmare.

👍👍👍

Glad to hear it!  I was part of another Forum not about trains, and it turned into one political hate group!  After many years of participating in what was a great Forum, I left and never went back.  

Thank You.

OGR is for trains and only trains. I am happy the vote is NO!

In the present political environment, having such a forum would have been playing with fire. 

I am a strong partisan and engage others on appropriate forums. Here, we are all brothers of the high iron, and can find a place (generally) free of anger and vitriol where we can share the joy of our hobby in a friendly way. 

I voted against the idea.

Obviously, clearer heads prevailed!

 I voted, but I was wishing there was a comments option. I am not against paying a fee for the use of this site, I just don’t see a real advantage to an off topic forum.  I have no interest in more negative comments in my life. 

Greg Houser posted:

First, I'd like to say thank-you to Alan for keeping an open mind and taking the steps he did to research this on behalf of his subscribers.

Second, I was one of those who voted for it.  One of the comments on this thread completely baffles me.  If OGR wasn't willing to handle the moderation do you think they would have floated the option?  No interest in the sub- forum just don't read it.  I've never ventured to several of the  sub-forums - should I have railed against anything not O-Gauge upon their creation? The company isn't in business to other gauges. (Rhetorical).   I can certainly understand those who simply wish for the forum to remain about trains.

Regardless, as a GUEST on this forum I will continue to follow our hosts' wishes in how I participate.  

Regards,

Greg

I voted no, but I 2nd you comments otherwise.  Kudos to Alan for considering it and putting it up to the group for a vote.

A bunch of "one track" minds! It's what we come here for.

jim pastorius posted:

TRAINS !!

No .. Cabooses! 

Thanks Alan for letting us vote and keeping this a Model and Toy Train Forum.

Alan,

Thank you for the survey work.  It represents a knowledge based decision process, which is so refreshing.

It's good that the majority of our members, in fact, would like to keep the Forum focused on trains.   If anyone, particularly guests, feel a need to vent their fact-free opinions, there are plenty of absurd social media environments to do so.

I didn't vote either way as I get enough of other nonsense elsewhere but didn't want to impede on anyone else since I wouldn't have participated in the OT stuff.. That said...

I wouldn't mind the other side of it. I've gotten way more than 12 dollars worth of enjoyment and knowledge out of this place. If you offered the 12 dollar "Premium" forum subscription with some of the other discounts and things that you were planning... I bet there would be a fair amount of people who would pay it. Maybe even give them another forum tag like you for digital subscription.

I blow 12 dollars on a lot of things that don't give me near the amount of return that this forum has.

Aldovar posted:

I didn't vote either way as I get enough of other nonsense elsewhere but didn't want to impede on anyone else since I wouldn't have participated in the OT stuff.. That said...

I wouldn't mind the other side of it. I've gotten way more than 12 dollars worth of enjoyment and knowledge out of this place. If you offered the 12 dollar "Premium" forum subscription with some of the other discounts and things that you were planning... I bet there would be a fair amount of people who would pay it. Maybe even give them another forum tag like you for digital subscription.

I blow 12 dollars on a lot of things that don't give me near the amount of return that this forum has.

Thanks so much for this particular comment as I've had some private emails sent to me about offering a "premium" forum subscription.  Some years ago when it became apparent that the forum was costing OGR a good chunk of change, there was a proposal to charge a membership fee.  While I was not a member back then, I have heard that the membership made it clear that they would not pay that fee.  I was given the impression that perhaps the membership thought we were just trying to fill our pockets.  It seems that a few dollars per year was asking too much?  I don't know.  Anyway, we had to do something because the costs did not justify keeping the forum.  In comes this guy about 5 years ago who asked advertisers to use the traffic here to help both their sales and support the costs of the forum.  I promise you...I know the numbers and subscription income is not enough to keep the forum going so whenever you can do business with a forum sponsor, please consider doing so....everyone benefits.  Now, to be honest, we still don't cover all the costs of this forum through ads but it is much better than it used to be.   

Like Aldovar, I didn't vote either, however, I guess I must have been asleep at the wheel or just didn't see it mentioned about the survey.  Either way, I'm glad the trains won out, I like this forum the way it is, well except for the "For Sale or Trade" section, I really don't agree with us not being able to post about an item being sold or not.  To me it is a total waste of time to have to go back and send the person an e-mail and sometimes you don't hear back right away or they just don't bother to answer one way or the other.  I wish we could go back and ask questions about the items but that's just small potatoes, otherwise, I love the forum and it has really been a great help and I've learned a lot too.

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Thanks so much for this particular comment as I've had some private emails sent to me about offering a "premium" forum subscription.  Some years ago when it became apparent that the forum was costing OGR a good chunk of change, there was a proposal to charge a membership fee.  While I was not a member back then, I have heard that the membership made it clear that they would not pay that fee.  I was given the impression that perhaps the membership thought we were just trying to fill our pockets.  It seems that a few dollars per year was asking too much?  I don't know.  Anyway, we had to do something because the costs did not justify keeping the forum.  In comes this guy about 5 years ago who asked advertisers to use the traffic here to help both their sales and support the costs of the forum.  I promise you...I know the numbers and subscription income is not enough to keep the forum going so whenever you can do business with a forum sponsor, please consider doing so....everyone benefits.  Now, to be honest, we still don't cover all the costs of this forum through ads but it is much better than it used to be.   

I don't know, I've run forums and webhosting before. I know what it is costing me per month to host a few small sites, I can just imagine what this costs. If you offer it, I'll buy one.

Maybe I'm seeing it from a different perspective, I've subscribed to Patreon's, Tipped Twitch Streamers, paid for premium forum memberships, and subbed to all kinds of nonsense. Not because I couldn't get the content for free, but because I wanted to support the work.

Now, I subscribe to the magazine, and I read it for what maybe an hour and then I'm done? This place, (For better or worse lol!) is one of the first places I visit in the morning.

J. Motts posted:

Like Aldovar, I didn't vote either, however, I guess I must have been asleep at the wheel or just didn't see it mentioned about the survey.  Either way, I'm glad the trains won out, I like this forum the way it is, well except for the "For Sale or Trade" section, I really don't agree with us not being able to post about an item being sold or not.  To me it is a total waste of time to have to go back and send the person an e-mail and sometimes you don't hear back right away or they just don't bother to answer one way or the other.  I wish we could go back and ask questions about the items but that's just small potatoes, otherwise, I love the forum and it has really been a great help and I've learned a lot too.

This is because there were quite a few member / sellers that were taking advantage of bumping their items to the top.  They would find all kinds of ways to comment and then discussions within the for sale threads kept certain seller's items on the first page while other seller posts had time on that first page.  Folks would change the price by a few bucks and then post back to their thread to tell everyone they "reduced" the price.  Others would add one item every few hours and then bump their thread again.  You would not believe the personal emails I have gotten over issues on the for sale forum...heck, one well known member accused me of discriminating against him over the rules on the for sale forum. 

Other auction sites, especially Ebay, do not offer live email exchanges right on the auction listing...you have to communicate via Ebay's email system.  So...basically ours is no worse and the side benefit is that you get to do this for FREE!  But as I have always said, we can't satisfy everyone so we have to compromise....something that seems to be getting harder and harder these days.

It is the most labor intensive part of running the forum and may some day be either no longer offered or a base listing fee charged so that we can defer the labor cost of moderating it.

I guess I must have been asleep at the wheel

Me to, but I'm glad of the outcome! It's about TRAINS.

may some day be either no longer offered or a base listing fee charged so that we can defer the labor cost of moderating it.

Perfect!!

Larry

I like the  way we always did it. Talk about anything you like, but as soon as things go stupid the thread gets killed!

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Aldovar posted:

I didn't vote either way as I get enough of other nonsense elsewhere but didn't want to impede on anyone else since I wouldn't have participated in the OT stuff.. That said...

I wouldn't mind the other side of it. I've gotten way more than 12 dollars worth of enjoyment and knowledge out of this place. If you offered the 12 dollar "Premium" forum subscription with some of the other discounts and things that you were planning... I bet there would be a fair amount of people who would pay it. Maybe even give them another forum tag like you for digital subscription.

I blow 12 dollars on a lot of things that don't give me near the amount of return that this forum has.

Thanks so much for this particular comment as I've had some private emails sent to me about offering a "premium" forum subscription.  Some years ago when it became apparent that the forum was costing OGR a good chunk of change, there was a proposal to charge a membership fee.  While I was not a member back then, I have heard that the membership made it clear that they would not pay that fee.  I was given the impression that perhaps the membership thought we were just trying to fill our pockets.  It seems that a few dollars per year was asking too much?  I don't know.  Anyway, we had to do something because the costs did not justify keeping the forum.  In comes this guy about 5 years ago who asked advertisers to use the traffic here to help both their sales and support the costs of the forum.  I promise you...I know the numbers and subscription income is not enough to keep the forum going so whenever you can do business with a forum sponsor, please consider doing so....everyone benefits.  Now, to be honest, we still don't cover all the costs of this forum through ads but it is much better than it used to be.   

Hey!!! maybe start easy like a buck a month???

Is there a way to have guests view the forum but if they want to participate, they'd have to pay?

I wonder if a base price would deter some of the trolls that seem to bash extra, for free??

Did anyone notice the forum post the other day where people kept re-posting the OP's large picture post over and over just for fun? After a senior member warned against it, they did it even more. If they had to pay extra for that, maybe they wouldn't think it was so funny?? 

I am really glad that the idea of posting about other subjects was dropped. Several other forums that used to be good for trains, now are just about a few members feelings on overpaying, poor health, and …...

So riddle me this.  If there's a sub- forum you need to pay for in order to access, post to and read; and you choose not to pay so you can't access, does it really exist?  Doesn't matter what is discussed because you don't have access. Do folks who are not digital subscribers miss the extra content?  Obviously, not.

Seems to me all everyone who voted no did is possibly cost OGR revenue.  Us members would have underwritten the cost and OGR probably could have signed up sponsers who perhaps don't mind critical posts when things go wrong.  Face it, we've all had posts deleted "talking about trains".  This is not meant as a criticism of OGR.  

My "gut" from being a member all these years is that this is something OGR didn't want in the first place and are relieved so many voted against.  

So be it. It's their forum and I'm grateful for what they provide.

-Greg

Greg Houser posted:

So riddle me this.  If there's a sub- forum you need to pay for in order to access, post to and read; and you choose not to pay so you can't access, does it really exist?  Doesn't matter what is discussed because you don't have access. Do folks who are not digital subscribers miss the extra content?  Obviously, not.

Seems to me all everyone who voted no did is possibly cost OGR revenue.  Us members would have underwritten the cost and OGR probably could have signed up sponsers who perhaps don't mind critical posts when things go wrong.  Face it, we've all had posts deleted "talking about trains".  This is not meant as a criticism of OGR.  

My "gut" from being a member all these years is that this is something OGR didn't want in the first place and are relieved so many voted against.  

So be it. It's their forum and I'm grateful for what they provide.

-Greg

I guess you are saying there was a profit to be made from this? Are you sure?

J. Motts posted:

Like Aldovar, I didn't vote either, however, I guess I must have been asleep at the wheel or just didn't see it mentioned about the survey.  Either way, I'm glad the trains won out, I like this forum the way it is, well except for the "For Sale or Trade" section, I really don't agree with us not being able to post about an item being sold or not.  To me it is a total waste of time to have to go back and send the person an e-mail and sometimes you don't hear back right away or they just don't bother to answer one way or the other.  I wish we could go back and ask questions about the items but that's just small potatoes, otherwise, I love the forum and it has really been a great help and I've learned a lot too.

with few violations, the" buy-sell" forum is working as it was intended....I.M.O.- its perfect the way it is, my humble thanks to Alan A. for keeping it that way.....

I voted no as I survived the old AOL Boards and did NOT want to see this forum turn into what that was. 

I voted no...and l have strong political opinions, but this is not the place for them.  (And like my one election vote, those statements have little value here, if any, so won't be missed)  l have gotten my money's worth from my OGR mag. subscription and a very great deal from the forum, about trains!  I don't need to go off on tangets. 

Thoughtful Rules:  "A Modest Proposal" (with deference to Jonathan Swift)

1.  When in doubt about posting something, don't

2.  Train comments should be based on personal knowledge/experience

3.  No complaints about product--if you don't like it, don't buy it

4.  Most important rule:   Share Knowledge and Experience

5.  Stop nonsensical posts to see your opinion without contributing knowledge! 

Railroad modelng is a great hobby, with many subsets, from construction to electronics, artistry to prototype research.  Let's enjoy those things and steer far away from narcissistic  whining and blaming.  Perhaps all levels of our entire society might heed that as well😉.

Jim Berger posted:

J. Motts posted:

Like Aldovar, I didn't vote either, however, I guess I must have been asleep at the wheel or just didn't see it mentioned about the survey.  Either way, I'm glad the trains won out, I like this forum the way it is, well except for the "For Sale or Trade" section, I really don't agree with us not being able to post about an item being sold or not.  To me it is a total waste of time to have to go back and send the person an e-mail and sometimes you don't hear back right away or they just don't bother to answer one way or the other.  I wish we could go back and ask questions about the items but that's just small potatoes, otherwise, I love the forum and it has really been a great help and I've learned a lot too.

with few violations, the" buy-sell" forum is working as it was intended....I.M.O.- its perfect the way it is, my humble thanks to Alan A. for keeping it that way.....

Thanks Jim...but just so you and others know, there are a lot of violations in the for sale forum.  Seems about 70% of the folks that participate there do not read the rules found within the featured topics on that forum.  We probably have an average of 15 to 20 software alerts per day with which we have to deal. 

Engineer-Joe posted:

Greg Houser posted:

So riddle me this.  If there's a sub- forum you need to pay for in order to access, post to and read; and you choose not to pay so you can't access, does it really exist?  Doesn't matter what is discussed because you don't have access. Do folks who are not digital subscribers miss the extra content?  Obviously, not.

Seems to me all everyone who voted no did is possibly cost OGR revenue.  Us members would have underwritten the cost and OGR probably could have signed up sponsers who perhaps don't mind critical posts when things go wrong.  Face it, we've all had posts deleted "talking about trains".  This is not meant as a criticism of OGR.  

My "gut" from being a member all these years is that this is something OGR didn't want in the first place and are relieved so many voted against.  

So be it. It's their forum and I'm grateful for what they provide.

-Greg

I guess you are saying there was a profit to be made from this? Are you sure?

Even if everyone that participated in the survey voted yes, we would not have been able to offer it because the number of votes was so low....just not enough to cover the costs.  We would have needed somewhere near 1000 members to join.  And...nope, it is not a big money maker for sure.  By the way, the plan was not to have any advertising banners there.....

A big reason I read & like the Forum is to get away with all the nonsense going on.

My no vote was a YES vote for trains only!!  I'm thrilled that TRAINS won by a vast majority no less!!  Thanks Alan for the thoughtful way in which you conducted this survey AND for sharing the results as you did.  

One of the things I love about OGR Forum is that it's about trains only.  In this day and age I always find it refreshing to click on the OGR Forum because I know the content will be about trains and only trains, and everyone on OGRF loves trains.  I'm always grateful this forum exists as it does and have no problem with the way it is moderated.  As I see it, I'm a guest in someone else's house and I will conduct myself by their rules.