Scale Polar Express Lionel cars - Santa is NOT happy!

beachhead2 posted:

I disagree with this.  It is 100% their fault.  We're talking about passenger cars not Visionline engines.  They offer a product, we expect it to work.  There is nothing wrong with that and I will accept zero responsibility for their failure to deliver.  Most of us receive technology laden items in the mail/FedEx/UPS.  Until recently, I lived in a rural area and received hundreds of shipments per year via Internet retailers.  I'm batting 1.000 on TV's, iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, computer monitors, high-end cameras & lenses, audio equipment, the list goes on and on.   You name it, not one failure out of the box.  If Lionel can't get it done, they just need to go away.

You are comparing apples and orangutans.   The design requirements for the trains differ significantly from the electronics you mention. 

I am not carrying any water for Lionel, here, but recognition of the sources of the problem is needed before they can be fixed.

palallin posted:

beachhead2 posted:

I disagree with this.  It is 100% their fault.  We're talking about passenger cars not Visionline engines.  They offer a product, we expect it to work.  There is nothing wrong with that and I will accept zero responsibility for their failure to deliver.  Most of us receive technology laden items in the mail/FedEx/UPS.  Until recently, I lived in a rural area and received hundreds of shipments per year via Internet retailers.  I'm batting 1.000 on TV's, iPhones, iPads, MacBooks, computer monitors, high-end cameras & lenses, audio equipment, the list goes on and on.   You name it, not one failure out of the box.  If Lionel can't get it done, they just need to go away.

You are comparing apples and orangutans.   The design requirements for the trains differ significantly from the electronics you mention. 

I am not carrying any water for Lionel, here, but recognition of the sources of the problem is needed before they can be fixed.

Let’s face the facts, It doesn’t take a “rocket surgeon” to identify the problem(s).

Christopher2035 posted:

I don't have a dog in this fight, as I run about 95% postwar Lionel these days after many QC issues with newer stuff.  That being said, the last few days I was browsing the internets looking to pick up 2 LC+ engines for my kids to enjoy on my postwar layout as they really like the sounds & the remote control makes it easy for them to run the trains.  Now the question is, do I buy them & hope nothing is wrong or just go with an MTH engine?

Lionchief stuff is of even lower quality than the scale stuff. Get them a Railking locomotive that is built to the same standards as the premier line aside from porportions and detail. Hollow axles have already been reported in Lionels Lionchief line, supposedly this was changed, but why chance it?

  I'm not the only person who feels this way.  The only way a company learns is if you don't buy their products.  

Nope, I'm 100% modern Lionel as far as locomotives go and I'm on the brink of beginning to swap things out for MTH. I don't want a bunch of paper weights in the next 5 years.

 BTW - green tint on passenger car windows (and I'm surprised nobody has mentioned it yet) Metra has them on their passenger cars. 

Yes Metra.... absolutely!.... but on a steam era heavyweight.......not so much.

Strummer posted:

I feel bad for all you who have had issues with your purchase(s), I really do. There's no excuse for such shoddy workmanship (or lack thereof) but...I have to ask (and I wouldn't be surprised if I get kicked off this forum for asking this):

Why on earth are you willing to spend $200(!) each on what are basically "fantasy" cars from an importer whose QC issues are common and very well known?

You can often find nice Walthers cars (built or unbuilt) at shows etc., for around $40-$50; have the fun of building them yourself, pick up some trucks (always easy to find), paint them, find someone to make you some decal sets, and there you are. I mean heck, if you have to spend the time to basically re-build these imported "R-T-Rs" anyway, why not just build 'em yourself, save some $$ and avoid the angst?

I know, "to each his own", but I just don't get it...and no offense was intended.

Mark in Oregon

 

Um because Mark in Oregon, not many can make a professional looking car even from a kit. Not many can give a professional looking paint job. And the blue paint is tough to match! Who is making the Polar Express decals anyway?

If it's Soo easy to build a walthers kit, how come one sees a lot of pre assembled junk on da bay? 

Which Walthers would be the most accurate to kit bash into PE observation...and coach cars?

Ive stopped purchasing Lionel items.

I personally can tollerate screws or parts that werent glued on all the way and fall off. That happnens with all manufactures across the spectrum. But the paint...the paint colors have not been correct on any model and I mean every model that they have produced the last 4 years. I’m not playing favorites to a particular railroad. The only thing they can get right is black. Every Great Northern paint schemed loco doesn’t match the previous release of a GN item... one of these days ill have to line them all up and take a picture. 

I hope someone at Lionel see’s this thread.

Someone should email them a link to it..

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Strummer posted:

I feel bad for all you who have had issues with your purchase(s), I really do. There's no excuse for such shoddy workmanship (or lack thereof) but...I have to ask (and I wouldn't be surprised if I get kicked off this forum for asking this):

Why on earth are you willing to spend $200(!) each on what are basically "fantasy" cars from an importer whose QC issues are common and very well known?

You can often find nice Walthers cars (built or unbuilt) at shows etc., for around $40-$50; have the fun of building them yourself, pick up some trucks (always easy to find), paint them, find someone to make you some decal sets, and there you are. I mean heck, if you have to spend the time to basically re-build these imported "R-T-Rs" anyway, why not just build 'em yourself, save some $$ and avoid the angst?

I know, "to each his own", but I just don't get it...and no offense was intended.

Mark in Oregon

 

Um because Mark in Oregon, not many can make a professional looking car even from a kit. Not many can give a professional looking paint job. And the blue paint is tough to match! Who is making the Polar Express decals anyway?

If it's Soo easy to build a walthers kit, how come one sees a lot of pre assembled junk on da bay? 

"Um"...

When I first jumped into this hobby (in 1969) most scale modelers (myself included) were still building engines, rolling stock and structures from kits. A look at the magazines (or catalogs) from that era bears this out. If we wanted a specific item, we found a suitable kit and made it happen. That was (and still is, for some of us) part of the fun. 

You mention "a professional looking paint job"; isn't part of this discussion about the shoddy paint jobs that are being seen on this purchases? And practically any tint of paint (blue included) can be matched; you just have to work at it a bit. Again, part of the fun.

And I did mention (and I quote) "find someone who can make you some decal sets".

Perhaps I've been at this hobby too long, but I still derive great joy from working with my hands; not just to open a box, but to use different skills to build things and repair old items (like post-war Flyer). I bet I'm not alone in feeling that way.

And again, as I posted above: "to each his own...and no offense was intended".

Mark in Oregon

PS: Also a big Pennsy fan... 

Battle Fatigue:  Seriously, imagine yourself repairing equipment, and then returning it to the customer.  As you turn to go home, you see that tomorrow's work pile is much wider and higher.

The repair technicians are not the post office employees moving boxes.  Each box must be carefully opened, letters of difficulties read, engine pre-tested, repairs made, engine post-tested for an average of four hours, boxed with brief service note, and shipped back to the buyer --- hopefully without any further damage during return shipping.

It takes people with a skill level and mental toughness to keep pushing through the pile of repairs.  I thank them.  I also understand that some repairs could be missed as the major issue was repaired.

The management team buffers the technicians so they can efficiently work.  I wish I could just call and talk to Dean, but he is working with the occasional repair that can't be fixed.  He's working for a customer like me through his buffer of Call Center Employees, who attempt to free him to handle issues with the technicians.  He does an amazing job considering the constant pull from technicians and call center people for his minutes of time.  I would be a spinning top with scrambled focus --- everyone needing my attention.

The new year is a new start.  I hope the management team has time to reflect in a positive way, on the many negatives that the wide selection of products bring into the Service Center.  I suggest a smaller catalog.  Let the Chinese factories find the solutions needed to make a quality product.  "Less may actually be more", more quality, more sales, more profitability, and fewer repairs.

Wishing a Happy New Year for ALL of us.

Sincerely, John Rowlen 

Strummer posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Strummer posted:

I feel bad for all you who have had issues with your purchase(s), I really do. There's no excuse for such shoddy workmanship (or lack thereof) but...I have to ask (and I wouldn't be surprised if I get kicked off this forum for asking this):

Why on earth are you willing to spend $200(!) each on what are basically "fantasy" cars from an importer whose QC issues are common and very well known?

You can often find nice Walthers cars (built or unbuilt) at shows etc., for around $40-$50; have the fun of building them yourself, pick up some trucks (always easy to find), paint them, find someone to make you some decal sets, and there you are. I mean heck, if you have to spend the time to basically re-build these imported "R-T-Rs" anyway, why not just build 'em yourself, save some $$ and avoid the angst?

I know, "to each his own", but I just don't get it...and no offense was intended.

Mark in Oregon

 

Um because Mark in Oregon, not many can make a professional looking car even from a kit. Not many can give a professional looking paint job. And the blue paint is tough to match! Who is making the Polar Express decals anyway?

If it's Soo easy to build a walthers kit, how come one sees a lot of pre assembled junk on da bay? 

"Um"...

When I first jumped into this hobby (in 1969) most scale modelers (myself included) were still building engines, rolling stock and structures from kits. A look at the magazines (or catalogs) from that era bears this out. If we wanted a specific item, we found a suitable kit and made it happen. That was (and still is, for some of us) part of the fun. 

You mention "a professional looking paint job"; isn't part of this discussion about the shoddy paint jobs that are being seen on this purchases? And practically any tint of paint (blue included) can be matched; you just have to work at it a bit. Again, part of the fun.

And I did mention (and I quote) "find someone who can make you some decal sets".

Perhaps I've been at this hobby too long, but I still derive great joy from working with my hands; not just to open a box, but to use different skills to build things and repair old items (like post-war Flyer). I bet I'm not alone in feeling that way.

And again, as I posted above: "to each his own...and no offense was intended".

Mark in Oregon

PS: Also a big Pennsy fan... 

 

Strummer,  much of what you may consider “fun and part of the hobby” are chores and boring for others, myself included.

There are many ways to participate and enjoy this hobby and we each choose the path that best fills our needs and desires.

Well....the original theme/point of the thread has been deteriorating for while now so I think this horse has been beat up pretty good.  Now...you guys with problems with the product need to make sure the manufacturer knows how you feel by contacting them via phone.