Please help!
Two things:
First, how do you get the shell off? Can't figure out which screws to remove!
Second, what on the motor can be lubed to get rid of a squeak at low speeds?
Thanks!
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Greg: Speaking in generalities here, but recent Lionel SD40s typically have eight body mount screws; two on each end of the chassis and two each fore and aft of the fuel tank area. You may have to swivel the trucks to see those four.
If you have a needle-point oiler (Labelle comes to mind...) you can get some oil on the top motor bearing under the flywheels. To access the lower motor bearings, you'll have to dismount the motor from the truck. You can then oil the motor lower bearing + refresh the grease in the gearbox area with some Lucas Red 'n Tacky or similar products.
A catalog product ID number would help members zero in on a specific chassis "build" for better information.
Thanks for the info. There are a ton of screws under there and couldn't see any that readily looked like body mount ones. If I get brave, I will have a go at it. Lost a sale due to discovering it had a squeak after sitting. I updated the title to include the item number. Figured being generic was okay. Lionel catalogued a few of these SD40s recently...
Thanks again!
Greg: It just so happens I have the SP "Daylight" SD40 from your same production run. After looking at the bottom of mine, be sure to zero-in on the screws that are toward the inner part of the chassis-not the outer ones which actually hold side rails and floor boards to the shell.
These SD40s have the twist-off trucks which will help you find the body mount screws. Twist the truck to remove but don't lose the small metal coupling that goes between the fixed motor and the truck gear-train. There is also a small metal washer that came off with the coupling on mine.
At the front, I see two screws on either side of the metal mount plate for the kinematic coupler assembly.
There COULD be two more mount screws forward of the fuel tank assembly and just outboard of the vertical rails running fore and aft under the frame. They are adjacent to the wire harness from the truck assembly into the chassis.
At the rear of the loco, you will see two more screws that are in a similar location as the front two-adjacent to the kinematic coupler mount plate.
The rear truck also has the same small screws just aft of the fuel tank and just outside the vertical metal rail. If I was you, I would try the two screws at each furthest end-point and see if the shell will come off (without too much force...). If not try the inner four smaller screws and see if that helps; if not you may have to drop the fuel tank/speaker enclosure and see if there are bigger body-mount screws in that area. You can actually see the screw mounting posts on the outer-most screws, so that will be your clue for any others. Good luck. I haven't had any need to open mine up as yet, so that's the best info I can give you. Good luck.
2 of my new SD40's (6-82277 & 6-82278) have squeaks also coming from the motors. I oiled the top and bottom bearings a few times with labelle 108 and the squeaks persist. Did you ever fix yours?
I have 2 Lionel ES44's (82205 and 82209) that have motor squeaks as well. It took me a while to figure out that's where the squeak was coming from. I also tried oiling the bearings, with no success. I contacted Lionel and was told they squeak due to high metal content in the brushes and to run the crap out of them. I guess that was supposed to "wear in" the brushes. Hasn't worked so far. I also purchased replacement motors from Lionel. That is a crap shoot because some of the motors squeak and some don't when they are new - but they might start squeaking later. It's annoying but I have not found a good solution yet.
Maybe @Dave Olson can chime in here?
A video of the sound would help. I'd be interested to hear how loud it is and how fast it is (I.E. squeak from truck or motor)
Oiling the motor bushings helps, just be careful not to put on too much. Oil in motor = bad - plus it could fling around inside the shell and coat things.
I've also seen noise come from the motor with the encoder on it. Sometimes the flywheel is too low on the shaft and the bottom of the encoder ring rubs on the sensor on the encoder board. Just have to loosen the set screws and pull the flywheel up a bit.
Popping the trucks off (Lion Drive - 90 degree twist and unlock) and put oil in there is necessary, though they're required to be lubricated from the factory. As someone said, don't lose the coupling or the washer. But do oil them. Careful with the detail parts when taking off the truck.
Tanner111 posted:was told they squeak due to high metal content in the brushes and to run the crap out of them. I guess that was supposed to "wear in" the brushes. Hasn't worked so far.
I would not think this to be the case IMO. Not sure who said that to you.
What about the traction tires. Haven't they been known to squeak from hitting the brake detail.
Rod Miller
Dave
Thanks for taking a look. Below is a video. The video doesn't do it justice. You can hear it but you have to turn the volume up.
I went back and found the emails. I don't want to call anybody out publicly. I can forward them to you privately if that would help get to the bottom of this. They said it could be due to high copper content in the brushes.
In the past I have removed the trucks and the shell and powered them up and the squeak is still there. I did also look at the encoder and I'm pretty sure it is not rubbing. The squeak is not that loud but now that I know it's there I can hear it with all the sounds turned up. It only squeaks at low speeds and the frequency changes with the throttle.
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Are you referring to the "1... 1, 2, 3... 1... 1, 2, 3" sound? Because that's all I can hear. Let me know.
Dave Olson does this locomotive use the rcmc board? reason I ask is I have my volume full up and it sure sounds like same noise the 2014 release of visionline big boy it has same sound and from what Dean in service told me its a common noise created by?
that's what I hear anyways wish the imbedded player had a volume control.
Dave if you have access to a engine with rcmc board set it on track power up leave sitting stationary and turn volume up if you hear same noise as in video its a known issue and far as I know no fix or cure see Dean in lionel service as I asked about same noise emitting from my big boy.
grp24 posted:Please help!
Two things:
First, how do you get the shell off? Can't figure out which screws to remove!
Second, what on the motor can be lubed to get rid of a squeak at low speeds?
Thanks!
I listened to your video sounds like the rcmc board noise that my 2014 visionline big boy engine makes it goes away once volume turned up and chuffing starts.
I put on my headphones and yes its not a squeak but is in fact a noise from the rcmc board!
if you start engine up leave it stationary and turn sounds off if you hear the same sound now as in your video then you have found the issue and unfortunately no way to stop it.
hope this helps you
StPaul posted:grp24 posted:Please help!
Two things:
First, how do you get the shell off? Can't figure out which screws to remove!
Second, what on the motor can be lubed to get rid of a squeak at low speeds?
Thanks!
I listened to your video sounds like the rcmc board noise that my 2014 visionline engine makes it goes away once volume turned up and chuffing starts.
I put on my headphones and yes its not a squeak but is in fact a noise from the rcmc board!
if you start engine up leave it stationary and turn sounds off if you hear the same sound now as in your video then you have found the issue and unfortunately no way to stop it.
hope this helps you
This is exactly what I was thinking too. Electronic sounds, not mechanical squeak.
Dave is there a reason the rcmc board makes this noise? is it just an electronic gremlin of electrons not playing well with each other ...I am laughing loudly
Is the noise actually from the circuit board? Or is it electrical noise from the board leaking into the speaker signal? It would be interesting to know if the noise goes away if the speaker was disconnected.
Rich Battista if you have any lionel products since they started using the rcmc board try that experiment and let us know 
Paul, I do have the SD40's and have not noticed the sound likely because the volume is always all the way up. I'm curious though, so I'll turn off the volume and listen for it tonight. Can't do much more for now...trying to finish DVD for York.
It isn't the RCMC. It's the RailSounds system. It's just minor serial noise that exists in practically every engine that uses the RSL3.
The volume has to be off and you really have to put your ear to the engine to hear it. I had to turn my computer's speakers all the way up to hear it in the video.
So I am impressed by your hearing ability.
Just the nature of our electronics. Dealing with higher powers/bigger speakers/lots of serial data.
I know the sound you are talking about but that's not what I'm talking about. know it was hard to hear the motor squeak in the other video. It is louder in this one. It's a high pitched series of chirp/squeaks.
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Well, I've listened four times and can't detect any sound more distinct than the regular 1 - 1,2,3 serial data feedback (if that's the right word). From recent experience, chirps and squeaks at slow speed generally mean the flywheel hitting something or the running gear needing lubrication. I generally run my engines on max volume so as to drown out any mechanical/electronic noise, which experience also teaches is not consistent across all models.
In the past I have pulled the motor out and hooked it up to a battery and I hear the same squeak. I may do that again and record it so you guys can hear it.
Here is one of my BN SD40's. It's not as bad going forward.
SuperChiefer84 posted:Here is one of my BN SD40's. It's not as bad going forward.
Yes. This is the squeak.
I just started to hear this same sound/squeak from my ES44AC
Thaddeus posted:I just started to hear this same sound/squeak from my ES44AC
Now it's an epidemic!
Seriously, that sound in the latest video is in synch with the motor RPMs and doesn't seem to be a gear issue. I've never noticed it in my ES44ACs or AC6000, which have essentially the same hardware as the models in question albeit rather older.
The only time I've had a sound very like that was the result of the motor flywheel catching on an adjacent part of the framework. The clearance was minimal and I had to bend the part to enlarge it. I reckoned it had got bent the wrong way in shipping.
As I said I previous posts, I pulled the motors out of the engines and powered them up and the motors squeak. The engine and track were not powered at that time. That is the single issue I am trying to fix. I can also hear the serial data feedback. That is a completely separate sound/issue and I don't care about that.
Hancock52 posted:Thaddeus posted:I just started to hear this same sound/squeak from my ES44AC
Now it's an epidemic!
Seriously, that sound in the latest video is in synch with the motor RPMs and doesn't seem to be a gear issue. I've never noticed it in my ES44ACs or AC6000, which have essentially the same hardware as the models in question albeit rather older.
The only time I've had a sound very like that was the result of the motor flywheel catching on an adjacent part of the framework. The clearance was minimal and I had to bend the part to enlarge it. I reckoned it had got bent the wrong way in shipping.
There is nothing rubbing on the rear motor flywheel. The squeaking sound seems to fade and then come back strong. I have greased liondrive coupling, oiled axles, and oiled motor all with no success. It's becoming annoying, I can hear it over the sound when it's turned up. Any other ideas?
My 6-82278 GT SD40 has a squeak in the forward direction and that appears to be the front motor. My #6320 in vid is the loudest of the 2. I've begun to just make sure it's going forward in the lash up to avoid the noise.
Dave, can you help a brother out here?
I've tried everything including sending 2 bad motors to Timko to see if he could repair them. No joy.
Unless Dave comes up with something I would plan on buying some motors during the warehouse sale.
I had a legacy gp7 with a similar squeak. Lubed every conceivable thing I could as well. It was still there although sometimes worse than others.
Also have a legacy steamer that will squeak the first few revolutions if the Loco has been sitting for awhile, usually worse in reverse, then it goes away until the next time it sits. Oil no help either.
A squeak that can't be oiled...... maybe there's something to that "high metal content of the brushes" thing?
Having said that, I'm not so sure I would jump and order replacement motors. They could squeak just as bad.
Maybe see if Dave or that "other guy" chimes in with another idea.
Otherwise maybe an email to either wouldn't hurt.
I pulled a squeaky motor out of the engine and attached is a video. It squeaks at low speeds. I hooked the motor up to a 9volt battery and it spins the motor faster but you can hear it. I moved the flywheel up to make sure the encoder is not rubbing.
At this point I think that RickO has the right idea; consult Lionel and/or Mike R. direct. That noise sounds like it's internal to the motor; maybe the idea about brushes wasn't far off after all.
@Dave Olson would you please listen to superchiefer's and my latest video (both posted above) and let us know if you have any ideas?
Tanner111 posted:I pulled a squeaky motor out of the engine and attached is a video. It squeaks at low speeds. I hooked the motor up to a 9volt battery and it spins the motor faster but you can hear it. I moved the flywheel up to make sure the encoder is not rubbing.
Sounds like exactly what I said up above - encoder wheel rubbing on the sensor.
The encoder wheel is not rubbing. To make sure, I removed the flywheel and tried it again. Squeak is still there.
I tried swapping my squeaky front motor with one I ordered from Lionel and all I get is a flashing cab light and no go.
Dave, I think Lionel is shipping the wrong motor for SD40 replacement, something isn't right. This is after I confirmed with you through email if it was the correct motor due to the extra capacitor hanging off encoder board.
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Tanner111 posted:The encoder wheel is not rubbing. To make sure, I removed the flywheel and tried it again. Squeak is still there.
Yes the squeaks are definitely internal to the motors. I also tried raising the flywheel like Dave mentioned and the squeak is still there.
If it does with with the encoder off, then I would say it's just a bad motor. So replacement is the way to go. If this is on your new engine, I suggest you call and get a RA for warranty repair.
The motor/encoder board combo is correct per your photo, so it might have a back encoder board. Can you give me the P/N you ordered so I can confirm that's what was shipped?
