Charles Ro is shipping SW1
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Mine just arrived by FedEx 5 minutes ago.
Any pictures yet? Does it have the S2 style trucks with removable axles (easier to convert to 2 rail with NWSL wheelsets)?
Thanks.
They just used the mth shell......the motor and drive is same as all recent Lionel switchers.
Anyone getting the Black River & Western set with the SW1?
Truck spacing looks odd
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@naresar posted:If they're like the Lionel heavyweights that I have, the frames are the same between the 2 and 3-axle trucks. So the 2 axle trucks end up being a little to far towards the center.
Yea that's what it looks like. Glad I skipped it.
The picture of the cars on the set box looks way better than what you actually get
@tom21pa posted:
Truck spacing looks odd
To say the least. That doesn't look right.
Lionel has done better 2 axle truck spacing on the older 6- 15577 NYC commuter cars .
And so it goes....
Those trucks on the 4 wheel trucks look weird or is it me? Something is off. I am so glad I did not order it.
Inexcusable. Awful. Should've been would've been a super cool set.
As I have seen other pictures from other buyers, I would not buy it. The cars look terrible.
The truck positioning is certainly all wrong, that looks silly! I have a ton of passenger cars from a variety of manufacturers, none of them look like that! 
The set looks normal on the Lionel site, and it has 4-wheel trucks!
<click on graphic to expand>
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That is odd. The last car looks OK but the first 2 look awful. That's a shame as Black River and Western is close enough to me where I can hear the whistle's from their engines when the wind is blowing the right way. If it looked right, I would be ordering it.
Tony V
@Norman R posted:Mine just arrived by FedEx 5 minutes ago.
Does yours looks the same as the pictures from above or the catalog?
I think what confuses me more is that Lionel has been doing the heavyweights in 4 wheel truck variants before (in the past 5 years), but they look passable and less bizarre.
(pictured above are the NKP runs from 2018)
What happened here, I dunno.
Pity, since the last coach and the locomotive look perfect, and my friends and I live about 30 minutes away from the railroad...
@Tony_V posted:That is odd. The last car looks OK but the first 2 look awful. That's a shame as Black River and Western is close enough to me where I can hear the whistle's from their engines when the wind is blowing the right way. If it looked right, I would be ordering it.
Tony V
Note that the last car in The Lionel Product picture has 6-wheel trucks. Also, the last car apparently also has six-wheel trucks. What possessed them to put 4-wheel trucks on the other two?
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I live about 5 minutes away, and I do believe some of their coaches do have 4-wheel trucks, but I don't think spread apart as seen in that one photo. Granted they do have quite a bit of rolling stock, some which is not fixed yet. I do believe #503 was recently fixed, but I couldn't tell you what set of trucks it has as it escapes my memory.
*Edit, I think it is #503.*
If it's true that some have 4-wheel trucks, Lionel shouldn't have "cheeped out" and moved the truck mount so they looked proper. I'm sure the 4-wheel trucks on those prototype coaches aren't mounted in the positions on the Lionel version!
@gunrunnerjohn posted:If it's true that some have 4-wheel trucks, Lionel shouldn't have "cheeped out" and moved the truck mount so they looked proper. I'm sure the 4-wheel trucks on those prototype coaches aren't mounted in the positions on the Lionel version!
I agree John. Maybe I'll see about taking a trip down there tomorrow morning and shooting some photos if possible.
Thats what's called a Lionel ism ,slap it together and tell every one how great it is
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I agree John. Maybe I'll see about taking a trip down there tomorrow morning and shooting some photos if possible.
Heres a photo of the prototype: https://images.app.goo.gl/SaLYo6D5Sksb1RKh9
Heres a car Lionel produced back in 2005, with a more acceptable 4 wheel truck spacing: https://www.grahamstrains.com/...?type=D&id=11827
Its almost like sometimes Lionel doesn't know what tooling they even have.
We'll score this release as a bloop single, it certainly isn't a home run! 
Not that one should have to after paying the asking price for such a set, but if it were me, I’d eschew prototype fidelity and install six-wheel trucks on the lead two cars. I would rather glimpse at an extra wheel set as opposed to stare at that overhang/wheel spacing.
@RickO posted:Heres a photo of the prototype: https://images.app.goo.gl/SaLYo6D5Sksb1RKh9
Heres a car Lionel produced back in 2005, with a more acceptable 4 wheel truck spacing: https://www.grahamstrains.com/...?type=D&id=11827
Its almost like sometimes Lionel doesn't know what tooling they even have.
Yeah that's about right on the nose. Funny thing is the real photo is the one that was restored recently. I think that they had been working on it for quite some time and finished it near the end of 2019 or just in 2020. I do remember getting some photos a while back when they were working on it, but not sure where that is in the crazy number of phone photos on my flash drive(which is why I figured I'd shoot some tomorrow morning). I guess I don't need to do so now though.
Thanks Rick.
Does anyone have photos of the full size "real" cars? How is their wheel spacing for comparison?
@DaveGG posted:Does anyone have photos of the full size "real" cars? How is their wheel spacing for comparison?
Black River & Western photo roster
That should help I think, not sure about the angles as I only looked at one.
Missed the prototype photo post by RickO.
@RickO posted:Heres a photo of the prototype: https://images.app.goo.gl/SaLYo6D5Sksb1RKh9
Heres a car Lionel produced back in 2005, with a more acceptable 4 wheel truck spacing: https://www.grahamstrains.com/...?type=D&id=11827
Its almost like sometimes Lionel doesn't know what tooling they even have.
Maybe they don't?
I think manufacturing has shifted over the years, I don't know specifically, but I seem to remember reading something on this forum about factories changing.
Maybe "ownership" of certain tooling is a vague concept in the industry? I really can't believe they let that one ship though. Oof.
Well, they(the industry) has cheated because some things aren't very prototypical. I think some of the Consolidation engines were way off from what I recall for several road names.
Does the current/new spacing allow for a tighter radius? Did the 2005 version have the same minimum radius?
@DaveGG posted:Does the current/new spacing allow for a tighter radius? Did the 2005 version have the same minimum radius?
I would think the current truck locations would cause issues on tight curves. I can only imagine the overhand with all that length outside the trucks. Besides, how do you explain the normal truck spacing for the 6 wheel truck? Surely that would be a problem if the minimum curve was an issue!
Here is the link to the catalog photo and description for this set.
http://catalogs.lionel.com/2022/BB/
Does look like the pivot point is the same for the 6 versus the 4 wheel truck. Can an owner verify?
The photo does show some amount of gap between the 4 wheel truck and the end of the car. Just an observation. Not saying its right/wrong.
It does state the minimum curve is O54 for this set.
@DaveGG posted:Here is the link to the catalog photo and description for this set.
http://catalogs.lionel.com/2022/BB/
Does look like the pivot point is the same for the 6 versus the 4 wheel truck. Can an owner verify?
The photo does show some amount of gap between the 4 wheel truck and the end of the car. Just an observation. Not saying its right/wrong.
It does state the minimum curve is O54 for this set.
It could go either way for the one coach, but definitely not the combine.
In fact the rear truck looks like a longer version of the four wheel truck.
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@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Well, they(the industry) has cheated because some things aren't very prototypical. I think some of the Consolidation engines were way off from what I recall for several road names.
Not having the right tooling for a prototype is one thing. People will often accept a stand-in. These are some sort of Frankenstein combination of 4 wheel trucks.
Looking at the pictures closer from Mr. Muffin's, I think I know what they did. They put the 4 wheel streamliner trucks on instead of the two wheel heavyweight ones.
Here are the real deal's.
The way that these are coming out almost looks like they have HO trucks on an O Scale passenger car. The spacing is way off. At least the colors are right, the only thing that is really missing(which I am not sure if it is all 3) is the CNJ logo on the corners of at least two of the cars. I don't know if it has always had it, something that you would not really notice unless you have been paying attention for quite some time.
If they ever try and do #60, I am sure that is going to be a problem as they would have to use the standard tooling for Consolidations. The whistle on #60 has changed, and I am not sure if the position and size changed as well. I know it is very loud now and larger than what was there.
One thing I just thought about, maybe the CNJ is an extra license that Lionel doesn't have permission to use so they didn't pop that on?
@rplst8 posted:Looking at the pictures closer from Mr. Muffin's, I think I know what they did. They put the 4 wheel streamliner trucks on instead of the two wheel heavyweight ones.
Whatever they did, it's very...very... WRONG!
Yeah it is. I was talking with Pat(Harmonyards), both he and his grandad worked on the BR&W back in the 70's. They are way off indeed but can be fixed. Just another one of those things I guess.
I agree with John, whatever they did, it sure looks wrong,…..what’s odd is, they have the bandwidth to make those cars correctly, so not sure what they’ve got going on,….until I see one come across my plate, it’s unclear if it’s the wrong trucks, wrong frame, or combination of both,…..hopefully they realize the blunder, and offer a fix, ……otherwise, I will for those unhappy,…..they’re just plain silly looking!…..😬
Pat
Well, I don't want to sound negative, but like some other products that have come out, I'm sure that there probably won't be any fix offered for these like some others. Does it represent the prototype, well, not quite. This is similar to one of the Consolidation models they did a couple of years back. The prototype had the bell in a different spot, and there was some other difference that was also noted(I think a Southern engine). There was no fix in that case. People did state that they should have moved the bell to where it should be.
These, well, it should have been something easy because of it not being something that is difficult to do. It's not a cast in problem, it's not something that would need a big amount of work to make it correctly, so we have what we got. Still scratching my head a bit on this as it just seems simpler than a color problem to me.
Man I cannot believe you people haven't you learned by now Lionel can do know wrong. 
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:This is similar to one of the Consolidation models they did a couple of years back. The prototype had the bell in a different spot, and there was some other difference that was also noted.
…
Still scratching my head a bit on this as it just seems simpler than a color problem to me.
…simpler than a color match problem, and way, way simpler than moving details around on a die-cast shell!
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Does it represent the prototype, well, not quite. This is similar to one of the Consolidation models they did a couple of years back. The prototype had the bell in a different spot, and there was some other difference that was also noted(I think a Southern engine). There was no fix in that case. People did state that they should have moved the bell to where it should be.
The consolidations represented "a" prototype. I believe they are based off of the NYC.
Lionel did a one size fits all for other roads in color and lettering only.
The silly "innie " truck spacing on these passenger cars does not match any prototype.
@RickO posted:The silly "innie " truck spacing on these passenger cars does not match any prototype.
I'll say! I have never seen anything like it. I've never see that kind of spacing on any models either!
Well, another member posted over here and if anyone wanted a great look at the trucks, they can get a great look at them. He also had some shipping damage as well as other issues.
These are, simply put, garbage. If I were a dealer, I'd be shipping my entire stock back to Lionel instead of foisting them on my customers.
The Black River set truck issue aside, I haven’t seen much posted about the new SW1 besides a photo of Mr Muffin’s custom made runs.
I received the B&O version today and am pleased. Works out of the box and is a smooth runner. The color seems close enough as well. A quick test run with the Bluetooth app provided really nice low speed switch performance. As expected the former MTH tooling came out great.
My two minor complaints are: 1. The LEDs used are bright white. A warmer version would have been nicer but not worth opening this little thing up over that. 2. The roof hatch to access controls is difficult to remove. A grab iron and the bell placement makes lifting the panel very tricky. Interestingly enough I’m unable to find a volume dial on the loco.
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@Alex W posted:The Black River set truck issue aside, I haven’t seen much posted about the new SW1 besides a photo of Mr Muffin’s custom made runs.
I received the B&O version today and am pleased. Works out of the box and is a smooth runner. The color seems close enough as well. A quick test run with the Bluetooth app provided really nice low speed switch performance. As expected the former MTH tooling came out great.
My two minor complaints are: 1. The LEDs used are bright white. A warmer version would have been nicer but not worth opening this little thing up over that. 2. The roof hatch to access controls is difficult to remove. A grab iron and the bell placement makes lifting the panel very tricky. Interestingly enough I’m unable to find a volume dial on the loco.
The only way to adjust the volume is through the lion Chief app or legacy
@Alex W posted:My two minor complaints are: 1. The LEDs used are bright white. A warmer version would have been nicer but not worth opening this little thing up over that.
I had the same complaint about the LEDs used on the recent F40PH. Why they even bother making LEDs that wight is a mystery to me.
I was really hoping to see one in PRR livery in newly released catalogue. Hard to believe with all the road names its been produced in the last few years PRR wasn't one of them.
-Greg
The SW1 looks nice, I just can't justify the $500.00 price.
@harley rider posted:The SW1 looks nice, I just can't justify the $500.00 price.
I agree. I know it does not hold true, but I always have a feeling smaller engine should cost less...
Maybe if they are the LC series.
Is the level of detail higher than when MTH produced them?
@rplst8 posted:They have fixed pilots now so thats a plus.
@DaveGG posted:I agree. I know it does not hold true, but I always have a feeling smaller engine should cost less...
Maybe if they are the LC series.
Is the level of detail higher than when MTH produced them?
I paid a $150 premium with a dealers early buy offer compared to the street price of the 2021 MTH issue.
I don’t own the MTH model, but based on photos the fixed pilots are the big difference as rplst8 mentions. They feature some separately applied details like coupler bars and arrive with kadee mounting parts. There’s a smoke unit too and it appears Lionel added accent paint around certain items like the headlight lens frames. I don’t think MTH ever did those latter two enchancements.
I certainly wouldn’t have paid list or a purchase price starting with a 5 for this. But for a small, well detailed switcher I’m pleased.
@Greg Houser I agree that a PRR model would have been preferable. By the way, recognize some of that Atlas track? It cleaned up well!
@Alex W posted:I don’t own the MTH model, but based on photos the fixed pilots are the big difference as rplst8 mentions. They feature some separately applied details like coupler bars and arrive with kadee mounting parts. There’s a smoke unit too and it appears Lionel added accent paint around certain items like the headlight lens frames. I don’t think MTH ever did those latter two enchancements.
I certainly wouldn’t have paid list or a purchase price starting with a 5 for this. But for a small, well detailed switcher I’m pleased.
If it's of any value. The last few years Lionel has geared down their switchers so low. There is no other brand that can come close to the realistic slow speed. Which of course is ideal for a switcher.
@Alex W posted:I paid a $150 premium with a dealers early buy offer compared to the street price of the 2021 MTH issue.
I don’t own the MTH model, but based on photos the fixed pilots are the big difference as rplst8 mentions. They feature some separately applied details like coupler bars and arrive with kadee mounting parts. There’s a smoke unit too and it appears Lionel added accent paint around certain items like the headlight lens frames. I don’t think MTH ever did those latter two enchancements.
I certainly wouldn’t have paid list or a purchase price starting with a 5 for this. But for a small, well detailed switcher I’m pleased.
@Greg Houser I agree that a PRR model would have been preferable. By the way, recognize some of that Atlas track? It cleaned up well!
@Alex W Wow! It did clean up well! I'm glad to see trains up and running.
-Greg
