Switching from Conventional to Command

I do this. Just use the fixed channels of the tiu and you can run conv from the handles inc bell and whistle if your transformer has them.

NYCBuffalo posted:

I do this. Just use the fixed channels of the tiu and you can run conv from the handles inc bell and whistle if your transformer has them.

I plan to use all four channels, for three mains and one for the yard.  

Will this not this not work through the variable channels?

It will work fine with the variable channels.  You can configure the variable channels to fixed mode and they will function just like the fixed channels and output full voltage (minus about 1 volt internal circuitry drop).  You can even drop them back to variable mode easily and have the option of running conventional stuff on the tracks supplied by the variable channels using the DCS Remote.

Jim Harrington posted:

I would also like to be able to operate "old school" using the handles of the transformers, whistle buttons, and Lionel sound activation button for the bell function and Polar Express car with announcement etc., both for operating some of my command engines, and post-war/non command equipment.

Jim, my Run Room is set up that way.  I don't use conventional very often but it's really nice to have completely separate when I wish.

Here are my articles on Conventional or Remote Control - Page 1 of 2

Toggle Track Power Between Conventional and DCS or TMCC

To toggle control choose the Illustration or Diagram that Makes Sense.   They both show the same wiring.

I run my post-war engines off a variable TIU output using the remote. Works great.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

It will work fine with the variable channels.  You can configure the variable channels to fixed mode and they will function just like the fixed channels and output full voltage (minus about 1 volt internal circuitry drop).  You can even drop them back to variable mode easily and have the option of running conventional stuff on the tracks supplied by the variable channels using the DCS Remote.

I turn off the power to DCS and TMCC and use the transformer handle(s) to run conventional. Works great.

Jim,

We have operated our DCS and Legacy/TMCC modular layout for years using only the transformer handles for conventional engines.  With multiple users, it is less confusing than switching back and fourth from variable to fixed on the DCS (too many chefs in the stew).  We simply set the variable channels to fixed; the transformer handles do the  rest.  Whistles work just fine.

Earl

If running through the TIU and the TMCC Command Base is still attached, won't command locomotives think they are in command mode? 

This may be as simple ad unplugging the command base for TMCC locos, but wont the TIU, still be powered by track voltage?

Why would you run command stuff in conventional if you have TMCC/Legacy available?

Most of the time I would be in TMCC/DCS mode, but then then are times when I might want to run a mix of things, running some "old"stuff with modern. Some for the kids and some for me...

Thomas stuff, and Polar Express cars headed up with TMCC "baby" hudson, post-war, and you never know what else might still be on the tracks when trying to do so.

I'm confused. Are you saying you will be running this mixture on the same track at the same time?  If, so it is not advisable to mix all of these differently geared engines together, even if they are all in conventional mode.  I can't imagine what you are trying to accomplish here. Gunrunner John, help me out here.         

I can run DCS or conventional anytime, anywhere on my layout, even on the same track, and use no toggle or other switches.  Note I do not try to run DCS locos in conventional.  When running my ancient conventional stuff, which is rare, I orefer to use the remote rather than hanles so as to have walkaround control.

To simplify my goal...

The layout will have DCS and TMCC, and I will be operating "modern" equipment most of the time using these command systems.

I would like the option to operate a combination of both command and non-command equipment via the transformers in conventional mode.

Simply roll the variables to full voltage and then use handles.

RJR said it best. Keep it simple.

RJR posted:

Simply roll the variables to full voltage and then use handles.

I understand this will work for conventional only locomotive, but if I have a PS2/3 loco on the track, it will assume it is command mode and will not operate conventionally, correct?

Jim Harrington posted:

RJR posted:

Simply roll the variables to full voltage and then use handles.

I understand this will work for conventional only locomotive, but if I have a PS2/3 loco on the track, it will assume it is command mode and will not operate conventionally, correct?

That's where my train jumps the track.  Since you have all the command systems, and you already have a conventional locomotive that you're controlling, why would the DCS locomotive need to run in conventional mode?  What's the point?

This shouldn't be so complicated. If you have multiple tracks you can have them each controlled by a typical O gauge transformer and connect the command systems the way you normally would to each track. Control the tracks you want to use conventional engines on when you feel like, and use the remotes to control the command engines.

I don't see any benefit of plugging or unplugging (Or switching on and off in this case) the DCS TIU or Lionel Legacy/TMCC systems, just run with them connected and use the typical O gauge variable transformer control the conventional engines when you want to and when you want to run command set the transformer to around 18 volts and grab the correct remote.

We can run TMCC and DCS together on the same track, but cannot add conventional operation to that mix on the same track.  We can run conventional on one track alone, while the other tracks (blocks) are running either/and TMCC and DCS on the other(s).  The tracks are basically two separate main lines with their own blocks, with a third line on the elevated section.  The two lower mains have a double cross-over at one point so trains can switch from one to the other.

Kerrigan, I have run conventional and DCS together on same track, on same TIU channel at same time.  To me, running conventional isn't much fun, so rarely do I run any,  Locos are in extensive hibernation.

RJR posted:

Kerrigan, I have run conventional and DCS together on same track, on same TIU channel at same time.  To me, running conventional isn't much fun, so rarely do I run any,  Locos are in extensive hibernation.

I've never been able to make that combination work.  How do you do it?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

That's where my train jumps the track.  Since you have all the command systems, and you already have a conventional locomotive that you're controlling, why would the DCS locomotive need to run in conventional mode?  What's the point?

Just wondering if it is possible, as some guests might like to run the new stuff the old way...

Well, it's possible, but not without disconnecting the command system from the tracks.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, it's possible, but not without disconnecting the command system from the tracks.

That is what I thought...  

I will have to consider if the extra level of "complication" is necessary.

Susan Deats posted:

Jim, my Run Room is set up that way.  I don't use conventional very often but it's really nice to have completely separate when I wish.

Here are my articles on Conventional or Remote Control - Page 1 of 2

 

Susan,

Thanks for providing your solution for consideration.

-Jim

Kerrigan.  Have the conventional train heavier, so it needs higher voltage.  Remember, you can slow down the DCS loco without affecting the conventional, and you can speed up the conventional without affecting the DCS loco.  The reverses are usually not true.

My layout was built before DCS, and I ran multiple conventional trains on each "loop", so I had many toggle-switched blocks.  If perchance a conventional is catching up to the DCS, simply use the toggle to stop it for a few seconds.  Although I never did it, there are ways toggle switches can be wired to slow down a train by reducing voltage.

Note, I didn't say this was a relaxing way to run trains.  I rarely use any conventional locos, since multiple trains and grades would require constant attention.

Several years ago I recall wavering and wondering about adding command control. When I finally did I used a toggle switch so I could swap from command to conventional as needed.

As soon as I started running command however there was no looking back. A couple of years later I re-wired both cabs on the layout and deleted the toggle switches entirely. All I run these days is DCS, TMCC, and Legacy. You may have a similar experience once you start command operation. Whatever you do, have fun! 

Rod

I occasionally run conventional here, simply for testing repairs.  I also test conventional locomotives before I perform upgrades, I like to know the running gear is fully functional before launching into the upgrade process.  For my use, it's always been sufficient to simply use the variable channels of the TIU to run them.  In the rare instance that I'd like to have better control, I grab a transformer and replace one of the bricks.

I'm always surprised at the numerous different ways folks have wired up, and operate, the various control systems.  One would think there was one "correct" way and that was that.  Truly one's mileage can vary ... wildly ... from others.  One of my favorites is seeing ROSS turnout motors successfully utilize 28ga wire on 35' runs, i.e., old telephone switch panel wire,  while others insist on using 20ga or larger ..  like bell wire.  Same with track power feeders ... "gotta be at least 12 ga ..." while some use zip-cord for everything.  Track drops have to be 14ga ... while 16 ga works fine everywhere for some on huge layouts.

There are so many variables which work, or don't, it really comes down to "if it's working for you on your layout, good for you!"

Being a single locomotive at a time operator it is very easy to switch between the two.  TMCC most of the time, alternate the throttle on the MRC transformer when no CC locos are on the track.  The switch between the two will become less frequent as the roster is converted to CC.  Only a few more to go.  Anyway the mine train is always conventional, my kline plymouth moves a single hopper car back and forth over its 12 foot run quite nicely and the PCC cars at the other end also run just fine under conventional control.  These both run while the main line is controlled via CC.

Kerrigan, whatever works on YOUR layout is best.  No 2 layouts are electrically identical.

Re your comment on switch motors, the Z-Stuff 1000 switch motors have tiny motors and are happy with 22 gauge wire on my layout, or less.  On the other hand, the old NJ International switch motors I've been replacing with Z-Stuff's had solenoids and needed at least 18.  This is why you can't use a Z-Stuff controller for solenoid switches.