https://mthtrains.com/news/618
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The one thing I did not see mentioned is whether they will continue to produce tinplate, but with the MTH logo instead of the Lionel logo, as they did for decades prior to this licensing agreement. One assumes yes, otherwise why mention that they own all the tooling? Perhaps they don't want to commit to producing tinplate until they see how this last catalog does? Time will tell, of course.
At one time this was my favorite go-to catalog every year. I bought a Christmas train, lots of locos and rolling stock, a big orange 256 electric and the ever-so-cool remake of the Red Comet set.
Have moved away from tin the past several years but may have to find something in this one to tempt me. 
Not sure why Lionel would slant any future agreement in a way that prevents this relationship from continuing. Lionel most likely isn't entering the full tinplate market. Why not collect royalties off of each item that MTH creates for its established market. Guess we will get the Lionel name licensed on non train nick nacks like lamps and those cheap wrist watches.
wow,but mostly rehash of 2016,dealers with special 400 sets,loved the af sets,glad I got what I did,when I did,and no subways $&%&%%$^####
As noted above, MTH owns and retains all the tinplate tooling. Renewal of the licensing agreement with L was simply not economically feasible or justifiable at this stage. No decision has been made as to whether copies of the new 2018-19 catalog will be printed for distribution at the upcoming York or for mailing to dealers. For now, best to print out and retain the online copy. Also keep in mind that MTH is not restricted from offering tinplate items down the road under the MTH logo. All depends on whether the business model can justify future offerings. Those of us who truly enjoy and collect the tinplate trains would would be quite pleased to see future offerings....but there has to be a perceivable demand to justify production.
I think there will be more tinplate in the future. I think the market is just saturated right now but tinplate is Mike W first love so I don’t see it disappearing. I think it’s safe to say new tooling for tinplate isn’t going to happen right now and they have produced a lot of product in every color imaginable. I wouldn’t be surprised if a future Lionel/MTH venture develops again.
terry hudon posted:wow,but mostly rehash of 2016,dealers with special 400 sets,loved the af sets,glad I got what I did,when I did,and no subways $&%&%%$^####
Exactly. And that's why my tinplate orders went from fairly robust 5-6 years ago to pretty much zero the last few.
The one item I always passed on that I might consider is the Lionel Lines orange and blue loco and passenger car set. Always an eye catcher.
Jim Rawlings posted:As noted above, MTH owns and retains all the tinplate tooling. Renewal of the licensing agreement with L was simply not economically feasible or justifiable at this stage. No decision has been made as to whether copies of the new 2018-19 catalog will be printed for distribution at the upcoming York or for mailing to dealers. For now, best to print out and retain the online copy. Also keep in mind that MTH is not restricted from offering tinplate items down the road under the MTH logo. All depends on whether the business model can justify future offerings. Those of us who truly enjoy and collect the tinplate trains would would be quite pleased to see future offerings....but there has to be a perceivable demand to justify production.
Unless it was updated between when you read the release and when I read the release, it specifically says no printed version will be produced. (Craig's link without the "a" on the end)
-Dave
Dave, I am aware of the announcement on line. Does not reflect the possibilities.
Unless Lionel required a min royalty...wouldn't the traditional license by x% of sales. So no risk.
Dave45681 posted:Unless it was updated between when you read the release and when I read the release, it specifically says no printed version will be produced. (Craig's link without the "a" on the end)
-Dave
That is correct: NO printed version.
Many of my thoughts covered above. Almost just a note saying - btw here's what we got left, plus the dealer specials. Case in point the lone 710 series passenger with no set.
The disappointment for me is still no 2816 hoppers. The ones offered in the 2016 lct catalog were cancelled. Hopefully they make a comeback after the licensing agreement expires.
I do like that UP Standard Gauge passenger set. Looks to have nickel trim... would go well with my Lionel Classics Grey 400E. (Definitely going to pre-order!)
I'm pretty bummed that there won't be any more of these, since they were lovely products. I already have plenty of them, and they're all really high quality. Though I do think there's not much else they have and can do in terms of reproductions, and could've done more original ideas. I would've loved to see a new O gauge version of the standard gauge No.200 turntable - long enough to hold tender engines like the 263E at least.
I would like to see them make Modern Era Standard Gauge on a made to order basis. I would love a M10,000.
Mikado 4501 posted:I would've loved to see a new O gauge version of the standard gauge No.200 turntable....
Ditto! Would buy one of those for sure.
Since Lionel moved away from continuing their classic tinplate product line, I liked the fact that although MTH and Lionel are competitors and former legal adversaries, both sides came to a mutual agreement to allow the "Lionel Lines" to continue on via MTH product production. Although I don't like the thought, I do understand the possible reason why Lionel might not want to extend the current "Lionel Lines" licensing agreement if Lionel believes that any licensing fee received does not help Lionel in the sale of their current and future products. Since there is a lot of overlap between modern tinplate and modern regular/scale operators, it could also be argued that a sale of a new MTH "Lionel Lines" product reduces the potential amount of money available in the market to be used to buy a current Lionel BTO product.
You never know... depending upon the finer details of the contract and possibly before the end of the licensing agreement, M's factory had a large production run of "Lionel Lines" name plates that will end up in the MTH service/parts bins for later resale to customers that might have a damaged nameplate to replace.
So I purchased a blue 400E with brass trim. It again has a full page picture in this new catalog. I was told that matching coaches would be produced in the next catalog. Of course, they are not in the new catalog.
Sooooo... can I get the nickel trim coaches and somhow change them to brass?? Will the blue match? Ugh. Dissapointed.
Whoop nevermind they are in the new catalog as brass! They are just pictured as nickel...
I love you MTH.
Craignor posted:I think they have done enough of the Classic Lionel reproductions.
I would like to see MTH make some Modern Standard Gauge like the Harlan Creswell 600e with Proto 3 with all the modern bells and whistles.
I agree, or even a tin SW-2 or something would have been great. I suspect, however, the economics for the up-front cost of producing new tooling has passed.
PD
johnstrains posted:The one item I always passed on that I might consider is the Lionel Lines orange and blue loco and passenger car set. Always an eye catcher.
Yep. I'm looking at that too with the 263E engine. Would look good with my other set...
Attachments
The only "Lionel" aspect of the line were the Lionel emblems on the trains. Everything was made by/for MTH. I don't understand why folks would refuse to buy if the trains are released with an MTH logo.
I'd rather have an original prewar Lionel piece in good or better condition.
C W Burfle posted:The only "Lionel" aspect of the line were the Lionel emblems on the trains. Everything was made by/for MTH. I don't understand why folks would refuse to buy if the trains are released with an MTH logo.
I'd rather have an original prewar Lionel piece in good or better condition.
Well a couple of things... MTH, without the license, would not be allowed to produce the Orange and Blue color scheme due to Lionel's copyright. Personally for me I like the look. The logo on the side is less important but again for me it's a cool reminder of the past.
An original doesn't have the sounds, smoke, and control of the MTH line. For many of us that's important. My engine pictured above is fully conventional though.
It's a shame the licensing agreement is coming to an end. I suspect but have no proof that if tinplate was selling, MTH would have pursued the licensing again. Maybe Lionel wanted too much, I don't know. MTH has done an incredible job with the tinplate line regardless whos logo is on the side of the engines. The paint, the control, and the spirit of the past comes out in their tinplate trains.
Thank you MTH for bringing the Lionel Corporation Trains back.
MartyE posted:C W Burfle posted:The only "Lionel" aspect of the line were the Lionel emblems on the trains. Everything was made by/for MTH. I don't understand why folks would refuse to buy if the trains are released with an MTH logo.
I'd rather have an original prewar Lionel piece in good or better condition.Well a couple of things... MTH, without the license, would not be allowed to produce the Orange and Blue color scheme due to Lionel's copyright. Personally for me I like the look. The logo on the side is less important but again for me it's a cool reminder of the past.
An original doesn't have the sounds, smoke, and control of the MTH line. For many of us that's important. My engine pictured above is fully conventional though.
It's a shame the licensing agreement is coming to an end. I suspect but have no proof that if tinplate was selling, MTH would have pursued the licensing again. Maybe Lionel wanted too much, I don't know. MTH has done an incredible job with the tinplate line regardless whos logo is on the side of the engines. The paint, the control, and the spirit of the past comes out in their tinplate trains.
Thank you MTH for bringing the Lionel Corporation Trains back.
Frankly I would rather have the MTH logo on the sides. It's rather confusing to have a product wholly made by one company with another company's name on it. While I absolutely love it my mth premier tinplate, having a different name on the sides always felt a little like a corvette with a blue oval on it. I have never personally been a big fan of the blue and orange combo.
Frankly as far as not selling well, I think its a combination of a saturated market and a stale product line. I have two mth tinplate steamers with ps-3, a 261 and a 263. While the other engines available are very eye catching, I am not in the market to drop a wad of cash on the same thing I already have with a different paint scheme. If there actually a new model, I think it would sell great. Most of the same old trim parts could be used, but God help me how about a different wheel arrangement? Also I think cancelling the transition cars that had box couplers on one end and lobster claw couplers on the other was a huge mistake. Most non-tinplate folks won't crank out their own conversion car, but I find having one greatly enhances my enjoyment of our hobby.
I look forward to seeing what mth does with the product line once the agreement expires. And that you to mth for making this product in the first place.
An original doesn't have the sounds, smoke, and control of the MTH line. For many of us that's important. My engine pictured above is fully conventional though.
Whose electronics do the Lionel/MTH tinplate trains use? are they Lionel or MTH?
C W Burfle posted:An original doesn't have the sounds, smoke, and control of the MTH line. For many of us that's important. My engine pictured above is fully conventional though.
Whose electronics do the Lionel/MTH tinplate trains use? are they Lionel or MTH?
MTH's.
Rusty
The licensing is not the issue as much as it is the dwindling interest in tinplate. The demand has reached a point where it is difficult to find anyone to manufacturer the product in the low qualities that are ordered. Generally speaking the tinplate purchaser is on the upper age end of the model train hobby. Tinplate is dieing because the collectors of tinplate are. It’s sad but it is reality.
Scott Smith
I am liking the Spirit of the Union Pacific Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force boxcars.
Steve
scott.smith posted:The licensing is not the issue as much as it is the dwindling interest in tinplate. The demand has reached a point where it is difficult to find anyone to manufacturer the product in the low qualities that are ordered. Generally speaking the tinplate purchaser is on the upper age end of the model train hobby. Tinplate is dieing because the collectors of tinplate are. It’s sad but it is reality.
Scott Smith
I can confirm this. I am 20 years old and have zero interest in owning any tinplate trains. Not to say tinplate is undesirable, though, I do enjoy seeing Std. Gauge layouts at train shows.
scott.smith posted:The licensing is not the issue as much as it is the dwindling interest in tinplate. The demand has reached a point where it is difficult to find anyone to manufacturer the product in the low qualities that are ordered. Generally speaking the tinplate purchaser is on the upper age end of the model train hobby. Tinplate is dieing because the collectors of tinplate are. It’s sad but it is reality.
Scott Smith
I respectfully disagree with much of that. About 20-25 years ago, people were predicting the death of standard gauge because the people who were kids during the 20s and 30s were dying. Although there has been some decrease in value for items in poor condition, the overall interest level has actually increased in the last 15 years or so. I attribute this to the visibility and availability of reproductions, which has also revived interest in the originals.
While I agree that there are challenges associated with small production runs, this is something that affects every toy train item - many high-end O gauge items have a run of less than 100 pieces. It's not unique to tinplate.
I think there are two real problems. One is the lack of new items - instead of producing an F3 (for example), there's just another paint scheme on a 400E. How many differently-painted 400Es will a person buy? IMO, the other factor is that one of the parties is placing an unrealistic value on being able to put a Lionel badge on an item; I don't know if Lionel is overestimating, or if MTH is underestimating.
Give it a rest for a couple of years. MTH will probably make some tinplate without the Lionel badge, and then there will be an agreement again. Perhaps by not trying to duplicate Lionel items, MTH will come up with something new. Or not.
I think that Lionel will end up as the bigger loser in this deal - their licensing income for tinplate will be zero. Meanwhile, MTH will be able to continue selling tinplate, albeit without the Lionel badge.
"I think that Lionel will end up as the bigger loser in this deal - their licensing income for tinplate will be zero."
Perhaps, but I'm guessing the income was modest. Perhaps they simply decided that having your prime competitor making products with your name on it didn't seem like a good idea of brand identity? Remember that the licensing deal was made by a prior Lionel leadership, and the current leadership may not see it in the same light. As in "not our idea." Just some random thoughts. Perhaps an idea and plan that has run its course, from Lionel's standpoint.
Hiawatha98 posted:scott.smith posted:The licensing is not the issue as much as it is the dwindling interest in tinplate. The demand has reached a point where it is difficult to find anyone to manufacturer the product in the low qualities that are ordered. Generally speaking the tinplate purchaser is on the upper age end of the model train hobby. Tinplate is dieing because the collectors of tinplate are. It’s sad but it is reality.
Scott Smith
I can confirm this. I am 20 years old and have zero interest in owning any tinplate trains. Not to say tinplate is undesirable, though, I do enjoy seeing Std. Gauge layouts at train shows.
At 20, I had no interest in tinplate. On a whim I got an O gauge tinplate club car when I was around 27. Now I have a club car train, and I purchased both of my sons a standard gauge Ives and 400E for their first Christmas. I cant think of a better heirloom for them to enjoy every year.
Now the problem is, if I have a 3rd boy down the road I hope I can get my hands on a good set.
Hiawatha98 posted:scott.smith posted:The licensing is not the issue as much as it is the dwindling interest in tinplate. The demand has reached a point where it is difficult to find anyone to manufacturer the product in the low qualities that are ordered. Generally speaking the tinplate purchaser is on the upper age end of the model train hobby. Tinplate is dieing because the collectors of tinplate are. It’s sad but it is reality.
Scott Smith
I can confirm this. I am 20 years old and have zero interest in owning any tinplate trains. Not to say tinplate is undesirable, though, I do enjoy seeing Std. Gauge layouts at train shows.
When I first got back into O gauge I was interested in the latest modern products. I didn't give tinplate a second look or thought. I did not have a personal connection to any tinplate or even postwar stuff. However, after several semi-annual York trips where I saw both original pre-war product and the modern replicas I started to look more seriously at the modern tinplate by MTH, Lionel and Williams. While at York I would always buy Tom McComas/TM Video DVD's. Several tinplate themed episodes pulled me further towards the shiny stuff. I admire the character, colors and design of prewar and modern tinplate products. The mix of colors and varied metal trim remind me of the creative and beautiful designs of automobiles from early to mid 20th century. I primarily collect and run modern trains, but when possible, I will also buy and run both eras of tinplate. Tinplate is the true toy train.
Unless something changes within the current manufacturing/import environment, the higher minimum production order quantities now demanded by offshore production companies likely will greatly hurt the train hobby in all its scales.
I got out of Standard Gauge just because I had some $$ tied up in trains that I really couldn't run or enjoy: too little room, time, etc. I remain very interested in SG trains. Should the room, time, etc., ever materialize, I will get back into it.
HOWEVER: I only have interest in originals, and I have zero interest in anything MTH.
I wonder how many hobbiests are in a similar position.
jhz563 posted:Many of my thoughts covered above. Almost just a note saying - btw here's what we got left, plus the dealer specials. Case in point the lone 710 series passenger with no set.
The disappointment for me is still no 2816 hoppers. The ones offered in the 2016 lct catalog were cancelled. Hopefully they make a comeback after the licensing agreement expires.
The disappointment for me is the waiting of many years for the 300 series add-on passenger car for the PRR 384e pass starter set. Told many times by MTH and Rich Foster that it was soon to be made, that just had to catch up on production. This being said while all of the special order 400e locos are now being offered. Doubt that I will ever see it.
Joe Gozzo
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I am liking the Spirit of the Union Pacific Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force boxcars.
Steve
meee toooo!
Several of us in the groups I am in like to run and we do multiple train shows each year and the MTH stuff just plain runs for hours without any fussing. I like having the benefits of command, sounds, smoke, and the tinplate. Because we run them others have brought out their trains to run and that is where I fear we will lose people and not grow the hobby, and I think older stuff will once again go back to collecting dust on a shelf since parts might not be made.
I hope I am wrong.....
I received my first train set in 1952. That is 66 years ago. It was a Lionel so through the mid 70's the only thing I was interested was postwar Lionel to the early 60's. In my opinion after that point Lionel, MPC, Fundimensions or whoever the current owner was brought very little to the hobby.
In the mid 70's Williams effectively picked up the mantel from Lionel and began introducing new product via the E60, SD45, Metroliner, longer heavyweights and brass engines.
Finally, Mike Wolf took the hobby to levels not seen since before some of the members here were born. Look at the list of engines and rolling stock he developed. Lionel being far behind even contracted with him to produce those engines that I bought with the Lionel name on them thinking Lionel was finally back in the game. Once Lionel was finally able to actually get suppliers to produce competitive product they pushed MTH out.
Was it a surprise when they reached an agreement on tinplate? Frankly yes. Living down here at the end of the road in south Texas I seldom if ever get to train meets or the Conventions or York(never). I am far away from the conversation that goes on at these shows. What I have been able to glean is that Mike Wolf loves trains especially tinplate and the Lionel legend. I think he went along because it made him part of that story.
Do I think MTH will continue to make tinplate? Absolutely because he loves the product. This break might actually open the door for new and different product. Am I concerned about the Lionel tradition? Absolutely. Lionel had a history of making toy trains for kids that was generational. What I see them doing today is saying, 'for a few of you guys with a lot of disposable income let me make you special by selling you something that costs a lot and no one else has'.
Personally I don't want to feel special. I just want to enjoy my trains.
These new 400e’s had already been made but they were not painted. There were not that many of them. MTH spoke with several large tinplate dealers to see if they were interested in a short run (10 locomotives) with the paint schemes of their choice. I first heard about this from Pat at Patrick’s Trains when I was in his store several months ago.
These are the last 400E’s we are going to see for a long while. MTH cannot get these produced unless the demand for these increase. I love standard gauge and the 400e’s (I own 4 of them). I started a standard gauge group in the Roanoke Valley Model Railroad Club. Of course I am disappointed to see the tinplate offerings coming to an end. It’s been a great run and I want to publically thank MTH for the many great tinplate offerings they have produced for us. They continued to support this end of the hobby when everyone else walked away from it.
Scott Smith
My first experience with MTH tinplate product was through the purchase of lamp posts, signals, structures, etc. The trains didn't do anything for me because, in my mind, they had been done before. However, once MTH began making tinplate trains in color schemes and prototypical road names, I sat up and took notice: here was some new tinplate that Lionel never offered, let alone considered. I met Mike Wolf back in 2011 and expressed my thanks for giving us tinplaters some new product. I don't think we need to worry too much about tinplate going away so long as Mr. Wolf has something to say about it. Who knows? We may see some European-influenced tinplate, like a Standard or O Gauge tinplate Rheingold in the not-too-distant future. (A tinplate crocodile would be nice too!)
Bill DeBrooke posted:
Do I think MTH will continue to make tinplate? Absolutely because he loves the product.
But he is also a businessman who has to make a profit. Given all that Mike has done with/for tinplate in the last 30+(?) years I don't think he owes anyone anything.
Hiawatha98 posted:I can confirm this. I am 20 years old and have zero interest in owning any tinplate trains. Not to say tinplate is undesirable, though, I do enjoy seeing Std. Gauge layouts at train shows.
You sound a lot like me when I was 20. Once you get older, perhaps have a family, you get a better sense of history and perhaps you, like myself, may find yourself desiring a tinplate set for under the Christmas tree. Once you make the first purchase the others seem to fall into place naturally. Personally, I started with a passenger station....then a crossing gate....then villas....you get the picture.
-Greg
RadioRon posted:Bill DeBrooke posted:
Do I think MTH will continue to make tinplate? Absolutely because he loves the product.
But he is also a businessman who has to make a profit. Given all that Mike has done with/for tinplate in the last 30+(?) years I don't think he owes anyone anything.
That's what I think as well ... not sure if models based on modern ones would sell except for a select few.
As a side note, I was looking at videos of HO Hornby Live steam engines last night.
They seemed to stopped selling these but O or Standard gauge live steam would be so cool !
Imagine a 263 live steamer from MTH ...
Here is an older video from Hornby ... skip ahead to see the models running.
Trainlover160 posted:Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I am liking the Spirit of the Union Pacific Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force boxcars.
Steve
meee toooo!
With my son being in the Navy and all I may have to at least pull the trigger on that one.
RadioRon posted:There is a lot of nice stuff in that catalog! While I appreciate tin plate, I've never delved into it. I think the U.S. military boxcars should sell well. You have to credit MTH for coming up with some really creative decoration ideas. I noticed that the Christmas North Pole reefer shown toward the end of the catalog was actually delivered in 2013!
There is definitely a bit of a "clearing out" mode to some of the items listed (understandably). I initially noticed the previous MTHRRC offerings at the bottom of page 17, then checked out the other items on the same page, and found that the brown and white reefer was delivered in 2010.
I am only a recent purchaser of anything tinplate. I went for the recent Orange and Blue 263 and passenger cars on page 7, as well as the two freight car offerings shown below it. I may seek out any previous freight cars in a similar orange/blue scheme, I guess I will have to scrub old catalogs to find the ones I may be interested and look around for them at train meets or eBay.
-Dave
Landsteiner posted:"I think that Lionel will end up as the bigger loser in this deal - their licensing income for tinplate will be zero."
Perhaps, but I'm guessing the income was modest. Perhaps they simply decided that having your prime competitor making products with your name on it didn't seem like a good idea of brand identity? Remember that the licensing deal was made by a prior Lionel leadership, and the current leadership may not see it in the same light. As in "not our idea." Just some random thoughts. Perhaps an idea and plan that has run its course, from Lionel's standpoint.
Good point about "not our idea". It's a poor excuse, but who can say what management might be thinking?
I would expect that the agreement included details regarding what can be produced, quality requirements, and how it can be presented, so I don't see a huge concern about stuff being made by a competitor. Given Mike Wolf's love of tinplate, the concern about producing something detrimental to the brand should be minimal.
Agree that Lionel's income from the agreement is probably small, but it's about as close to "free money" as one can get - Lionel gets a stream of income, and except for some contract writing and monitoring, they do practically nothing. Not sure why they would choose to walk away from that.
We've all had our chance to buy Lionel-badged tinplate. Now, perhaps MTH can create some new stuff.
I just noticed the mthrrc,#200 club hopper is light blue,i like it,may have to reup my membership to that
There is no reason for the Lionel bashing. Lionel is not the reason this has come to an end.
"While an option to continue the relationship was proffered, the renewal terms offered by Lionel for an extension beyond 2019 were not conducive for any future M.T.H. tinplate plans."
The market is no longer large enough to justify renewing the license. I'm sure Lionel would have been happy to take MTH's money.
Scott Smith
A very reliable source that I care not to mention had a very good point. He reminded me of the lawsuit 10 years ago where MTH won a lawsuit and Lionel claimed bankruptcy.
Due to the settlement, Lionel agreed to lisence the tinplate, and the time is now up.
I had totally forgotten about the lawsuit but it makes perfect sense. Therefore, Mike is probably waiting for things to cool down with high inventories, before he releases the next tinplate traditions catalog. My $0.02
Joe Gozzo
MartyE posted:johnstrains posted:The one item I always passed on that I might consider is the Lionel Lines orange and blue loco and passenger car set. Always an eye catcher.Yep. I'm looking at that too with the 263E engine. Would look good with my other set...
Well I ordered these from The Imperial Train Company. Apparently they're in stock so I should have them soon!
Nice, Marty! Looking forward to some pics.
Trainlover160 posted:A very reliable source that I care not to mention had a very good point. He reminded me of the lawsuit 10 years ago where MTH won a lawsuit and Lionel claimed bankruptcy.
Due to the settlement, Lionel agreed to lisence the tinplate, and the time is now up.
I had totally forgotten about the lawsuit but it makes perfect sense. Therefore, Mike is probably waiting for things to cool down with high inventories, before he releases the next tinplate traditions catalog. My $0.02
Joe Gozzo
joe,that makes perfect sence so to speak !
I really don’t care which badge is on them. Only costs a few dollars to buy Repro Lionel badges and plates. I just want to some interesting stuff made.
Steve
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I really don’t care which badge is on them. Only costs a few dollars to buy Repro Lionel badges and plates. I just want to some interesting stuff made.
Steve
Agreed!
Joeg
it will be very interesting to see over the next couple of months,,how much lct come out of the woodwork with high prices and the "rare" label on it ,,,,,,since its the last of it,,,,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,could be fun
Trainlover160 posted:Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I really don’t care which badge is on them. Only costs a few dollars to buy Repro Lionel badges and plates. I just want to some interesting stuff made.
Steve
Agreed!
Joeg
Same here. I can live without the big “L” my tinplate.
Chris Lonero posted:Trainlover160 posted:Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I really don’t care which badge is on them. Only costs a few dollars to buy Repro Lionel badges and plates. I just want to some interesting stuff made.
Steve
Agreed!
Joeg
Same here. I can live without the big “L” my tinplate.
Yes Got just as excited seeing the old purple and blackish tinplate traditions boxes coming in it will be fun to pick that up again
Joe Gozzo
Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I really don’t care which badge is on them. Only costs a few dollars to buy Repro Lionel badges and plates. I just want to some interesting stuff made.
Steve
I am also on board with this. MTH has produced some truly beautiful tinplate repros in Std. Gauge and O--both LCT and Tinplate Traditions--and I definitely would like to see them continue to do so, even if on a more limited basis and irrespective of nameplate. Would love to see some innovative new items not previously made or offered in tinplate, but I won't hold my breath on that one because I realize the costs involved and the overly "picky" nature of hobbyists these days (which tends to limit the potential market for a particular item).
Allan Miller posted:but I won't hold my breath on that one because I realize the costs involved and the overly "picky" nature of hobbyists these days (which tends to limit the potential market for a particular item).
Allan
I believe we are our own worst enemies when it comes to getting new items done. I can't imagine going to York as a rep and all you hear all day is complaining from us. Not that some of it isn't deserved but maybe next time you go to York and see your favorite manufacturer maybe say something about a good experience.
Craignor posted:I think they have done enough of the Classic Lionel reproductions.
I would like to see MTH make some Modern Standard Gauge like the Harlan Creswell 600e with Proto 3, and bells, whistles, and smoke!
I think an O gauge version of something like this would sell like gangbusters! (Maybe drop the NYC label) I could see my 2816s streched out far behind a beauty like this.
Also I think a great feature if feasible would be a quick change option between latch/box coupler and lobster claw. (Probably not practical giving the different operating mechanisms, unless you gave up the proto-coupler option and went with a manual design. Then you could changed with a screw and not worry about wires.)
Agreed. Something like a Creswell 600E would pique my interest. I see the current tinplate issue as too many instances of rehashing the same stuff over and over. Offer something fresh and it’ll sell. My guess is that there are plenty of collectors who would help crowd source the cost of the tooling. There are so many opportunites that aren’t being pursued. I wish I had the operational know-how.
Personally, I’ve switched to ACE, Darstaed, ETS and the like. Lionel hit their high-water mark with the Vision Line 700E. They’ve taken the wrong fork in the road ever since. The ‘new’ tinplate catalog by MTH is a major disappointment. Where is the company that offered the tinplate car set and the overhead monorail?
I can’t believe that the subway cars didn’t capture enough interest to reach fruition. Again, try crowd sourcing. Maybe there are enough of us who would pay more than you think?
No matter the packaging, the modern tinplate is very good looking. However, there are times I prefer to have the option to get a modern tinplate w/ the Lionel or Lionel Lines name on the side.
Here's a shot at the stars... Imagine if MTH used the budgeted money of the expired Lionel Licensing fees and obtained an exclusive tinplate only "Polar Express" license from Warner Brothers. Hornby just obtained licensing rights for various Warner Brothers content including Harry Potter and DC Super Heroes.
terry hudon posted:Trainlover160 posted:A very reliable source that I care not to mention had a very good point. He reminded me of the lawsuit 10 years ago where MTH won a lawsuit and Lionel claimed bankruptcy.
Due to the settlement, Lionel agreed to lisence the tinplate, and the time is now up.
I had totally forgotten about the lawsuit but it makes perfect sense. Therefore, Mike is probably waiting for things to cool down with high inventories, before he releases the next tinplate traditions catalog. My $0.02
Joe Gozzo
joe,that makes perfect sence so to speak !
Well. Not really the way it happened.
I was happy buying MTH Tinplate before the agreement with Lionel and will continue, depending on what they offer.
Steve
I would say if you want the Orange and Blue color schemes, those are ones you will not be able to get. If that's important. MTH has done some beautiful pieces regardless of what logo is on the side. I'm looking forward to the set I just bought. I think if there is a demand we should see some nice things coming out. I wonder if something comes up that the Lionel branding works if they could do a "one off" license.
A Tinplate Polar express set with Berkshire and basic passenger train would be an instant hit.
I would like to see a return of the Olympian in new paint schemes. Concerning the Lionel/MTH badges or plates... Considering that there's been an emphasis on specific road names without the Lionel badges...take for example the newly announced 400e sets.. I don't think it matters much. One last thought...The price of tinplate increased due to Mike having to pay Lionel a percentage of the sale....I guess we should see the price drop a little bit..right? I know...wishful thinking.
Sunrise
I'm late to the tinplate party so it's a bummer that production seems to be tapering off. Unlike many of you, I go for the stuff that is prototypical. I haven't had a chance to collect some of the pieces everyone else is bored with. Therefore these road name sets aren't my cup of tea.
And I've been waiting for a Christmas set but that 400E paint scheme looks awful to me. I'll keep staring at it. Maybe it will grow on me. I do like the cars but there is something I really dislike about that engine and tender. It's probably just as well since I've already spent an obscene amount of money on this stuff in 2018. 
beachhead2 posted:I'm late to the tinplate party so it's a bummer that production seems to be tapering off. Unlike many of you, I go for the stuff that is prototypical. I haven't had a chance to collect some of the pieces everyone else is bored with. Therefore these road name sets aren't my cup of tea.
And I've been waiting for a Christmas set but that 400E paint scheme looks awful to me. I'll keep staring at it. Maybe it will grow on me. I do like the cars but there is something I really dislike about that engine and tender. It's probably just as well since I've already spent an obscene amount of money on this stuff in 2018.
I know what it is. It is the green wheels! Really turned me off. Wondering if it is the oldaddage pick does not do it justice! 😁
Joe Gozzo
I know what it is. It is the green wheels!
You're right about the wheels for sure. And the black frame bits, and maybe even the white roof. It just looks too busy to my eye. And that basic font on the tender "Christmas Express" looks, well, basic! It seems like it should be script or something. Anyway, maybe there will be some tweeks with the finished product but it's not something I can preorder.
I don't want to be a bummer about it though. I'm definitely getting the 400E blue/brass. I may get a black one, a gray 392E, and a black w/ orange stripe 390E.
If the black frame on the 400e Christmas set was red like the rest of the body...it would look much better. The black doesn't fit here.
Sunrise
The Southern set would look great.
Your right about the Christmas set, the green really throws it off.
Steve
I don't know what it is but the standard gauge classics just look right to me, not to interested in other newer road names, I buy that stuff in o-gauge. But thats just me, I would buy a 600e...black.
I don' have anything against the modern tinplate or standard gauge trains........But for me I want original not a perfect shiny fake. I would rather have a terrible condition original piece than a modern perfect piece. I look at trains the same way you would collect artwork. An original is a piece of art and a modern train is just a modern train.
Dwayne B posted:I don' have anything against the modern tinplate or standard gauge trains........But for me I want original not a perfect shiny fake. I would rather have a terrible condition original piece than a modern perfect piece. I look at trains the same way you would collect artwork. An original is a piece of art and a modern train is just a modern train.
Weren’t the originals shiny when they were made? I like classic cars, but I like them better well cared for and shiny.
I respect your opinion, but I also think a 57 Chevy with a 2018 corvette engine is pretty cool too.
Room for both, Me, I’d like a new Coyote 5.0 in a 65 Galaxie withe the 6 speed stick, but I would Never remove an original 427 & 4 spd to do so. That sums it up for me.
Dwayne B posted:But for me I want original, not a perfect shiny fake. I would rather have a terrible condition original piece than a modern perfect piece. I look at trains the same way you would collect artwork. An original is a piece of art and a modern train is just a modern train.
I hear you Dwayne, but if you were ever at the York MTH display, or perhaps your local train shop, & saw the shiny, gleaming tinplate trains in motion, you would have to love them. I am not even a tinplate guy, but must say the new ones are attention getters... & especially (for met) the red & green Christmas stuff! Hey, they are all trains & there is room enough for whatever we all happen to like. 
I live in Arizona and York is on the other side of the country so I have never had the pleasure of attending. We don't even have much in the way of large hobby shops were I live so I can understand what your saying. I realize how beautiful the new Standard gauge and Tinplate trains are. It is a good thing to see how these trains looked almost 100 years ago and without the new stuff we would never know.
The new standard gauge trains are real attention getters. All of the women in my family really like them and always ask what will be under my tree at Christmas. That is a good thing,having the girls interested.
Norm
Norm posted:The new standard gauge trains are real attention getters. All of the women in my family really like them and always ask what will be under my tree at Christmas. That is a good thing,having the girls interested.
Norm
I wish I had the room for Standard. There are some beautiful pieces out there.
MartyE posted:Norm posted:The new standard gauge trains are real attention getters. All of the women in my family really like them and always ask what will be under my tree at Christmas. That is a good thing,having the girls interested.
Norm
I wish I had the room for Standard. There are some beautiful pieces out there.
There's always 5 rail multigauge track. If you want it bad enough there's a way. I bought a Blue Comet 400E just to display years ago....now I have 13 Standard Gauge engines.
Scott Smith
I wonder if this news will effect the prices of the original Tinplate and Standard gauge trains? Lots of the new stuff could still be on ebay so prices may stay current.
Remember folks that MTH getting the Lionel branding was settlement of a lawsuit. Probably cost Mike nothing, but had a 10 year life. Now that it is over, and the market is smaller, no reason to pay for it. I suspect there will be some more SG but unlikely any truly new items. Jim Burke's 200 series cars were cheap to implement (covered gon, bay window caboose, etc) adding pieces to existing products.
So a couple of thoughts, Mike, put a PRR K4 shell on the 392e (I'll show you a 3D printed one soon)
make a 6 wheel drive with smaller drivers and put under the 400e - it will fit, and change the cab to look more like the NYC Hudson. Then put the 392 tender behind it
same 6 wheel drive could go unreal the 384e to make a nice 0-6-0
whatcha think
Jim Waterman
400e frame gives you more room.. That's what I gonna use for my rat rod Hudson.
Once I figure out wheel spacing.. And drive gear mod.
Blinding the middle wheel will give the clearance..
Using a can motor.no problem with spacing... Once gears are adjusted..
But to look right think you need to keep the large wheel.
And extend the frame... I have an mth 400e ..which I was going to cannibalize.. Use the motor..its a can motor..its all apart..
And I have a 400e I put together..by piece. Which will be my Hudson.. Frame needs to be. Cut and expanded.
I am hopeful that Mike remembers his words from the inside cover of the 2005 Vol 2 Tinplate Traditions Catalog about not forgetting his tinplate roots.
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