The pre-electronic age

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Am I the only guy who would be happy running my trains around the track without the headaches of all these electronic miracles?

Like I said, am I the only guy?

No, you're not.

I love running my MTH engines using DCS but; I also enjoy running my WbB engines in a conventional manner.  I’ve never understood why some folks think this hobby has to be a matter of absolutes.  

Curt

I'm a hands on guy so it's conventional for me.

I'm both. I have the DCS system and use it for my command engines and my postwar Lionel and now American Flyer. I've probably purchased my last command engines as my interest has now taken me back to the postwar period. Guess I love the old stuff.........like me.

C W Burfle posted:

With all due respect to Lou N., I never considered Lionel's whistle control system to be electronic. With that said, my interest lies in trains with universal motors, electromechanical reversing units, and whistle relays. I do have some trains with electronics because I liked the item, not the guts.

One exception: I do like the 1940's Lionel electronic set. In my experience, they don't work very well.

Thanks CW.  My point of view comes from the intent of the original patent where the whistle motor is DC and activated by the DC offset.  That didn't happen and it became an AC motor activated by a shaded pole relay.  The concept of generating a DC offset with a diode and resistor is clever in and of itself.  I'm sure we could discuss the novelty of electrical vs electronic but to say the least, the concept has added much to our enjoyment of the hobby.

Lou N

Your not the only one. Sometimes sitting at computer that is  close to layout and in eyesight will run many of the pre and postwar trains with dcs remote and they run nice on small 4x8 layout.

Let me make one statement first. I have TMCC and Legacy L but prefer Conventional. I have more prewar than Postwar, I have more postwar than 1996 and newer. 

But lets look at this thou in another aspect do you have any switches that will through themselves as the train goes around and hits trips of some kind. ( Ie your running your train towards the switch thrown in wrong direction but you non-derailing switch through's itself.  Your in the electronic age. You set up a watchman to hit a 145C/153C and it pops out, your in the electronics age. This that I'm showing is not to start an argument of you didn't mean this as I know but this is to point basically where it started.  But do I like tmcc, sometimes but I do prefer the conventional and setting it up to trigger different things. 

rtraincollector posted:

Let me make one statement first. I have TMCC and Legacy L but prefer Conventional. I have more prewar than Postwar, I have more postwar than 1996 and newer. 

But lets look at this thou in another aspect do you have any switches that will through themselves as the train goes around and hits trips of some kind. ( Ie your running your train towards the switch thrown in wrong direction but you non-derailing switch through's itself.  Your in the electronic age. You set up a watchman to hit a 145C/153C and it pops out, your in the electronics age. This that I'm showing is not to start an argument of you didn't mean this as I know but this is to point basically where it started.  But do I like tmcc, sometimes but I do prefer the conventional and setting it up to trigger different things. 

Actually, by powering your trains with electricity you're in the electronic age...  Change speed from the transformer, blow the whistle, change direction, you're in the electronic age.

The only difference is the level of electronic sophistication between 1900 and the present.

Rusty

C W Burfle posted:

...Folks that are not up to setting up this protection would be better off not mixing electronically controlled trains with older power supplies.

Folks that are not up to setting up this protection would be better off not mixing electronically controlled trains with newer power supplies as well. No modern power supplies have Transient Voltage Suppression... the TIU has it but is not a power supply.

WindupGuy posted:

My degree is in electronics, and I have spent my career working with electronics, specifically electronics and electrical controls in the electric power transmission industry.

And my trains don't use any electricity, let alone electronics:

 

WOW! SUPERCOOOOOOL! Thanks for sharing, Scott.

Bill DeBrooke posted:

I found this site a couple of weeks ago.  I was mostly looking for information on late 70's, early 80's Williams trains.  After reading the posts for a while another question has occurred to me.

Am I the only guy who would be happy running my trains around the track without the headaches of all these electronic miracles?

I got my first train in 1952 at Joske's in San Antonio.  I carried it home in my lap sitting in the back seat of my grandmother's 1935 Ford.  I loved that 671RR and all the others that followed.  Like most of us I put them away until 1970 when I was introduced to the TCA.  It started all over again.  My layout achieved the size that small boys dream about.   No multiple trains on one track, no station sounds, no remote uncoupling and fairly lousy smoke but endless hours of running my trains without having to worry that they might roll over and die if I said the wrong thing or pushed the wrong button.

Like I said, am I the only guy?

No you are not. Except for Super O track I don't care for three rail trains after 1950. No, the newer stuff is ok just not my cup of tea. Also I like UCS track. Hope you keep lov'in your trains, Scott.

Conventional is great for bringing back those childhood memories, and running in a more bulletproof fashion.

As for me,  I personally prefer post war. I pretty much understand what makes them work and can do my own repairs at hardly any cost. It's also a buyers market, maybe that's why I have several 20 series steam engines w/correct tenders, like four 2056's, two 2055, also five 41 switchers and several duplicate set of the 2400 series passenger cars. Just to names a few. Most of the time when I purchase a postwar engine that's listed runs but not steady, tender sounds like it want to work.  I'll take them apart, clean up the  commutator on the motor, brush holders, new wires, oil and grease them, and they'll run and whistle like new.  

I was thinking this would be about live steam locomotives from the early 1900's since those are truly "pre-electronic".

WindupGuy posted:

My degree is in electronics, and I have spent my career working with electronics, specifically electronics and electrical controls in the electric power transmission industry.

And my trains don't use any electricity, let alone electronics:

 

Wow, James that is a great video of an unconventional layout. That 1203 Triplex accelerates like a Tesla Model S.

It's nice to see your trains "spring" into action. Well done!

TJ

Pre war, post war, modern it's all good this is for fun & I'm just happy to play with trains period.

Folks that are not up to setting up this protection would be better off not mixing electronically controlled trains with newer power supplies as well. No modern power supplies have Transient Voltage Suppression... the TIU has it but is not a power supply.

I find it incredible that the manufacturers don't put  TVS devices in both their power supplies and their motorized units.
IMHO, the folks buying newly made trains should demand it.

I have 2 layouts, one DCS/Legacy and one for my conventional Prewar/postwar items. For many years I struggled with the modern electronic systems. Then one day I ran an old conventional engine and realized the serenity of no electrical problems.  Lately I have been buying older Lionel engines and accessories.

I must confess, even though I run strictly conventional indoors, I run track power with G Scale Graphics RC control on my outdoor layout.  Layout is too big to be tied to a fixed control.

Chris Sheldon

Bill DeBrooke posted:

…. without the headaches of all these electronic miracles?

One person's headache is another person's fun.  My layout will be able to run conventional for when my "conventional only" friends drop by for some train fun.