I was about to ask who made the figures that have appeared in your photos Andre.
Now I know the answer, it was you. Nice work!
Hi Jerry!
Glad you're enjoying this thread with me!
Bantam Book:
Yer gonna' love it. Lots of cool nostalgia resides therein.
Your Marx set:
IF you can scan/post your picture that includes your Marx set, I'll bet our (OGR's) Marx Maniacs can identify it for you! They helped me to know what I had as a youngster, and once I knew, I was able to find a complete set in very good condition on The Bay!
Of your first layout, you said:
"It wasn't great, but I did it all by myself, and I was proud to have friends over and run it with me."
Bingo! Those are two key points: You made it yourself and interacted with your friends because of it.
That right there is why I am SO glad I was raised during the era I was raised in. I pity kids today that are so engrossed in a virtual existence (texting, Tubing, Twitting, FB, etc, etc,) that they don't know the joy of hands-on creating something one's self, or the fun of interacting with your friends with a common interest, playing games, using one's (or corporate) imagination (like "Cowboys n' Indians", or "Army", etc), on and on. Our culture at that time encouraged imagination, developing motor skills, systematic thinking, problem solving and such as that. Aren't you glad you were raised during that time?
Andre
Laming posted
Trumptrain!
You hit the nail straight on the head! Looking forward to the day I can fill a room with ozone... even if its only from a locomotive circling an oval on the kitchen table!
BTW: What make of trumpet you play? "Way back when" (Jr. High, mid-60s) I played trumpet. Had a Bach Stradivarius. I understand that was quite a trumpet. It must have been, for I made the mistake of leaving it at school in the band cabinet only once. It was stolen. Ended up taking the insurance $$ and buying a bass guitar and amp (renting a trumpet to finish the school year). Played bass ever since.
Trumpets? What does that have to do with Postwar ozone??? (I'm amazing. SO hard for me to not drift in a topic.) Sheesh. Back to my topic at hand...
Andre - I'll be back in the train room soon tonight, smelling ozone and enjoying post war trains.... snapping some photos too! I'll be running a passenger trains using Sante Fe stream line cars by Lionel which I bought in 1964. Good luck with your twin 2065's! Btw - Yes I play Bach Stradavarious trumpet ( I have 17 trumpets in various keys, 6 of which are Bach Stradavarious ).
Andre, Can't wait to get that book. Thank you for relating your experience with it.
Unfortunately I have no photos showing my electric Marx trains but I'm guessing it was a 9923 set with a Spam can transformer, because that's the only thing I remember about it. I remember coming home from school one day to find that the transformer no longer worked because somehow my mother had burned it up while running the train for a friend. No problem, I think it was soon replaced. I'm sure that transformer was used in more than one Marx set, but I saw a 9923 set that I liked in an antique store many years ago around Christmas time, so I bought it. I don't have very much Marx but I do love it, and I really like your set.
Yes I am very thankful that I was raised during that era. Wouldn't trade it for any other.
Cont...
Okay... so I just got done with some 3-rail tinkering, and I'm in a gabby mood. SO, I'm going to breach a subject that is a love/hate relationship among 3-railers. Some of 'ya love it... some of 'ya don't. That subject is...
WEATHERING
In my past 3-rail excursions, weathering wasn't even considered. At the time, I sort of liked the "clean and pristine" look on my 3-rail stuff. In fact, I sought out such Postwar pieces. My longest term model railroad friend that I've been friends with since '69, also happens to like 3-rail. During my 3-rail years when we would go to train meets together (remember those?), he didn't mind one iota to purchase stuff that had lots of "play were" on the pieces. I didn't particularly care for such pieces. No, instead, during my 3-rail indulging that took place throughout most of the 1990s, I was more of a collector with a purpose: All engines had to have a KC connection. (Or could be generic, i.e. "Lionel Lines".) That was about it. I didn't have any pretensions of a permanent 3-rail layout, instead just satisfied to collect and run them on temporary layouts set up for that purpose. (And broke down and stored when not.)
Understand that my "nice and shiny" preference for my 3-rail was directly opposite of my scale modeling, where pretty much everything has to look used and "natural" looking. (Ever since I was a kid. For as a youngster, I would use talcum powder to add white streaking to some of my boxcars so they would look like some of the cars at yards in KC I would see with such an effect!) Essentially there's no exceptions: Everything is weathered, or will be. In fact, my efforts with my Kansas City & Gulf theme in "Wienie Scale" (
) reflects a railroad running through the Ozarks in 1964 that has undergone bankruptcy and is now in the process of trying to reorganize. This "bankrupt" aspect was mainly incorporated so I could have plausibility for modeling many of engines in the aging KC&G diesel fleet as quite worn and tired. (I enjoy weathering effects.)
Now here I am, seriously looking at a very real possibility of a 3-rail layout. And unlike my previous 3-rail experiments, this attempt has been given a lot more thought concerning my "Givens 'n Druthers" based on discoveries of 3-rail and me from my previous 3-rail attempts.
CLEAN SLATE
So, if you'll pardon the play on words, I have a "clean slate" as to how I will do 3-rail.
That means, seeing as I only have two pieces of rolling stock (both 6464 boxcars, one Postwar, and one "modern" release) the slate is pretty much clean as whether I will be okay with pieces that are very "play worn".
This much I know for a fact: When I mentally envision a future 3-rail layout, all the scenic elements (track, structures, etc) contain weathering. Everything. That so, I find that I now do not have a problem at all obtaining pieces that have lots of "play wear". (Scratches, fading, poor lettering, etc.) SO, that is "new" for me: I'm fine with play worn pieces. In fact, I think they look like "weathered" pieces and add character to each individual piece and, get this, they are can actually be preferred.
BUT...
Would I now go so far as to entertain the idea of actually applying weathering to some of the future pieces I will be purchasing?
Here it gets kind of weird. It's kind of a "yes and no" answer:
* Yes, I'm seriously considering adding some weathering to "new" pieces.
* No, I'm not wanting to weather them to the point they look like they're ready for the junk yard.
Instead of the junk yard modeling that I see so much in HO, what I will want is for the overall scene when viewing the layout to look "natural".
To do that, in view of my "Givens 'n Druthers", the equipment will need to look "less than" brand spanking new. (There can, and will be, exceptions. We'll get to that in a bit.) That is, when you look at a yard full of rolling stock on my 3-rail effort, I want the entire scene to reflect something similar to what you'd see in one of Jack Delano's color photos.
Now, if you're not familiar with the work of Jack Delano, and you would like to take a quick view of some of Jack Delano's railroad photos, hit the link below, and within a very few pictures, you'll have a couple scenes of urban rail yards:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ph...-yards-1940s/571924/
IF you have taken a look, then I'm sure you noticed one overriding tone: Grime. Perhaps you also noted there really weren't any "rust bucket" cars that grabbed your attention, instead, everything is grimy, not rust bucket. Why is that?
Simple: Steam power.
Steam power produced copious amounts of soot as well as cinders.
Why is this observation important?
Well, if you'll recall, I will be aiming at using traditional equipment to reflect the late-1940s/early-1950s. This is because my "Givens 'n Druthers" choices have influenced me to attempt portraying urban railroad scenes. (In my case, the KC area.) Now, if I want to reflect such scenes effectively in my modeling... then I'll need lots of grime.
That pretty much decides for me that if I want my future effort to evoke mental scenes such as are seen within Jack Delano's photos... I will need to grime things up. Not everything, mind you, but the overall tone when viewing my future 3-rail layout should reflect soot-covered equipment as well as on the nearby supporting cast (structures). Namely: Grime.
Yes, there will some exceptions to the "Grime With Time" rule. For example, rolling stock that is to reflect a relatively new car. Then there's the road diesels, many of those will just about be brand spankin' new, so those "almost new" diesel engines will get minimal grime.
That so...
Prior to this essay, I just spent about 30 minutes experimenting with this concept. I took one of my boxcars, the newest of the lot (a modern era 6464), and decided to try to add some grime, and make the car look a bit more "natural" and not like a brand spanking new car. Here's the car (right) sitting beside my Postwar M&StL 6464 just like it came out of the box:
Note how bright the white appears and its overall pristine condition. Also note that by virtue of its age, the M&StL 6464 is already looking pretty stinkin' good "as is"! Anyway, here's the same car with a bit of grime added:
And a down on look:
And an up close and personal look:
Yes, the differences are subtle. (When viewed in person, it is more readily discerned.)
Look at the rivet strips: See the shadow of "grime" along each one? Also note the roof has a subtle application of grime as well as the door and ends. Even the white of the "ERIE" herald has some grime applied to it in order to tone it down so it's not as startling. Grime is everywhere, but not heavily applied.
I've also added very slight touches of older rust (as opposed to newer rust, the two are different, with many shades in between) at select points along the floor rivets as well as touches under the door rails. Also note there's some older rust on the couplers and where the springs ride on the trucks. Seeing as these are plain bearing (commonly called "friction" bearings) trucks, then the cap areas and the wheels need to reflect being oily/greasy. (They were packed with "waste" and soaked in journal oil.)
SO, there you have it. I'm seriously considering this approach this time around. At this point, all of the above weathering is powdered chalk with no fixative applied. SO, should I decide against it, it can be wiped off and/or washed off (the plastic parts).
I'll leave it like it is for now, and give it the test of time, but I'm seriously leaning in this direction so the entire scene will look "natural" to my eyes.
Thoughts?
Oh, and what about engines? Same treatment?
Well now, that's an interesting question. I'll blather on about that in a future installment!
All fer now!
Andre
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Thank you for sharing that Jack Delano link, amazing photos!!
Personally I've never weathered my rolling stock. I'm an MPC kid. By the time we added any Postwar to our collection, it was already "weathered" by the previous owner(s), storage conditions, etc. As toy trains go, it looked plenty realistic to us!
Resale value shouldn't be a consideration, because operator-grade Postwar is plentiful. Given the demographics of our community, supply and demand, prices will only go down from here. Besides they're YOUR trains, so do what makes YOU happy!
With Tinplate rail being as tall as it is, I agree that painting the sides rust brown, adding some kind of roadbed, etc., greatly enhances realism.
One thing I've noticed is that modern era trains have a very different paint finish, shiny brightwork, etc. So here's my challenge and recommendation: If you decide to allow anything made in the last 50 years, don't weather it as you would a scale model. Instead, repaint, dullcote, etc., as needed so that it harmonizes with the Postwar! I don't have those skills, but that's what I would try to do.
Ask yourself: Do you want your trains to look as realistic as possible, accepting that they began life as toys? Or do you acknowledge that they are charming toys, realistic in a certain sense, but try to "homogenize" and present them in a realistic environment? My goal was always the latter. What's yours?
"Now, if you're not familiar with the work of Jack Delano, and you would like to take a quick view of some of Jack Delano's railroad photos, hit the link below, and within a very few pictures, you'll have a couple scenes of urban rail yards:"
https://www.theatlantic.com/ph...-yards-1940s/571924/
Hi Andre,
Just checked them out, these Jack Delano 1940's era pictures are in color. Pure gold! Thanks for the link!
As noted I am also fan, especially of this picture. Note the cab number on this engine, then check out the first NW2 engine Lionel offered in the 1949 catalog.
Pete
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Images (2)
Another aspect of the scene in your photo, Andre, is the variety or sizes, subtypes, and even eras all mixed together in service. The modern unit train made up of identical cars did not yet exist (except in rare and unique cases).
Too often today we value a uniformity in size and details that simply didn't exist. If we want to reflect the reality of that time, we can take advantage of that freedom to use a wide variety of rolling stock.
Home from church... lunch et... time to read n' post up some replies!
Pete:
Thanks for that LoC link! I will likely hit that this afternoon to see if I can glean some Delano color railroad photos that I don't have in my Delano collection!
AND... 'Ya done real good on that scene! All of it. What did you do for an SW1?
palallin:
You are sooo correct. Though 6464's will be my largest boxcars, I also intend to run 6454's and such. My biggest puzzle right now is what to do for refrigerator cars, outside braced boxcars (and OB gons?), and double sheathed boxcars. I really would like to include such cars, but I need to think on the "how" part quite a bit. I don't think I have a real problem with the thought of heavy kit-bashing/modifying existing models so as to have a few representative cars. BUT, by the same token, given the vast selection of Evergreen Styrene shapes, I might consider some simplistic scratch-built shells to fit existing frames/trucks. Quick example: A 6464 frame could be used for a "40 foot" car, and the 6454 frame could be used for a "36 foot" car. Also, working in O is much more forgiving than HO, and building equipment to "traditional" detail levels would also be much more forgiving. Something for me to think about as I'm slowly amassing equipment and mentally "finalizing" my concept and approach.
Rusty:
SO true. Whereas John Allen is indeed one of my model railroad "heroes", and though I respect the work of George Sellios, when it comes to my typical modeling approach, I tend to avoid such extremities* in regards to "caricature". (Though I've tried a bit of it in my past modeling evolution.) I think the key to what I'm envisioning is "moderation". Things weathered enough to look natural... but not overdone to the point of caricature. That's not easy.
* Disclaimer: My HO theme, the 1964 era Kansas City & Gulf was created to allow for heavy weathering in the realm of the diesels and such, for in my youth years I was around junky looking diesels most typically via the Frisco, KCS, Rock Island, and Mop, along with innumerable railroad books that have photos of the "failing years" of the 60s into the 70s. SO, on my KC&G diesels, eroded and worn paint, oil leaks, touches of rust, grime, and soot are in evidence, sometimes in heavy evidence, if that particular unit is being modeled as one of the more neglected engines. (Each road had such examples during the "failing years".) However, such KC&G models are not "caricatures", they actually represent engines and effects I've seen on the prototypes. Also, I will not be modeling a bankrupt railroad in 1964 with my 3-rail, instead I'll be modeling scenes such as the above, where cinder n' soot are the main weathering agents.
All fer now!
Andre
Andre, I always thought you've had some of the most realistic weathering out there. I never viewed it as a caricature. It's clear you have a good understanding on how this stuff gets down and dirty in the real world, no doubt due to your railroading and railfaning experience.
Anyhow, if you continue down the postwar vortex, the dings, dents and handling of the past is almost "instant weathering.
Rusty
Rusty:
Thank you so much for your kind words about my KC&G stuff. Sadly, every KC&G engine that's in paint (and now in use) was painted/decaled/weathered back in the mid-90s. Though I have many more KC&G engines ready for paint (modified as desired, detailed, DCC/Sound installed/etc) I have yet to fire up the airgun and get started. I just can't seem to get off high center. 
I think it's two primary reasons:
* I'm concerned about my limited supply of Floquil paints in the colors I used most.
* I'm concerned about the defunct decal sources I used.
Ah well, it is what it is.
For any 3-rail that I may paint, my thought process is entirely different: I'll use "close enough" colors from automotive/etc rattle cans (run through my airbrush) and whatever decals I can now find that's "good enough". Totally different mindset.
Yes! Dents, dings, and scratches on pieces acquired with same will play right into the hands of some appropriate rust-colored tube acrylics and a brush!
Actually, this all sounds quite fun, as well as being a new frontier/medium for me: Weathered traditional 3-rail? Custom traditional-sized 3-rail rolling stock??
Andre
2055/2065 Test Loop Runs.
Okay, so I mentioned that both engines run, and run pretty nice, but the 2065 has a slight binding halfway through the curve. The 2065 is likely binding once it's actually in the curve, but momentum helps it enter the curve before it begins to slow.
I've set up a small test loop and thought I'd shoot a couple of short videos to illustrate how each engine performs.
First, the 2065:
Next, the 2055:
As you can see, the 2055 will run smoothly around the test speed at an acceptably constant speed (given the low throttle setting AND considering that it's a toy). Not so the 2065. It requires slightly more volts than the 2055 to keep from stalling while negotiating the curve. (Most pronounced upon exit of the curve.)I've checked for any obvious issues, but have yet to find anything that would be causing this. The side and main rods seem free: No binds could be seen/felt in the rods when manually pushing along and checking the rods for tightness at certain portions of the rotating cycle. Also, when slowly rotating the drives manually by hand, I don't feel any "tight" spots in the rotation, etc.
Open to suggestions!
All fer now!
Andre
Check the play of the spur gears between the two engines. My guess is there is a lot more wear on the 2065 bearing surfaces than the 2055. That can allow the gears to rub on the back of the wheels.
The siderods don't really come into play on the spur gear engines unless the wheels are way out of quarter.
Pete
Thanks for some input Pete.
In your candid opinion, do you think it's something that I need to pursue, or do you think I'm being like a "booger barker" dog that thinks he sees a booger so he's yapping at nothing? In other words, if it was your engine, would you be concerned or would you just run her as she be?
Andre
I have one that needs the gears replaced but still looking for a round tuit.
The wheels have to be pulled to do this and the stud bearings replaced. Its on the list but way down right now.
Pete
First the Reefer question... Several modern-era companies made 1930s "billboard" reefers which might blend in very well with you postwar rolling stock. If you want to make the appearance more consistent, you could probably put Postwar trucks on them. Lionel milk cars are expensive because they are operating cars. But they might also be a credible stand-in for a prewar refrigerator.
I wouldn't personally be happy with the way the 2065 runs. The slowing probably won't be as noticeable on your O42 track or when pulling a train. But I think it should run more consistently, like your 2055 does. As Pete said- check for slop in the gears, and also compare the wheel gauge, the 2065 might be too wide.
If the cause is worn bearings, replacing them is a heavy "class repair" best left to an experienced service person with the right tools (such as a wheel puller and press.) I would keep looking for bargains on auction sites, train meets, etc. You don't even need a whole loco. If you can get another motor/chassis, swapping it in is easy. There's a lot of variation in these old locos, I stopped asking why a long time ago. Some just run better than others.
Since you're willing to alter your rolling stock, consider using some delux plastic Marx. You can swap Lionel trucks under them. More variety and alternative bases to start detailing. Or try the K-Line remolds; those trucks/couplers are already compatible.
Ah... input!
Pete:
Thanks. I understand: Finding/fixing would not be for the novice Lionel PW enthusiast. (i.e. Me.)
Ted:
Reefers...
I recall I had some K-Line "Classic" reefers that were new tooling and looked like reefers in respect to the doors/etc. I seldom see them when I think to check to see if listed on eBay.
I have considered Lionel's ice car and if I had a "junker" that could be hacked, it could probably be made to look convincing to represent a steel-sided reefer.
2065...
In the video that is about the slowest it would run yet get around the curve dependably. At typical cruising speeds, it does pretty good. I may want to address it, but it might not be "soon". What little running it will get in the foreseeable future won't be enough to make anything "worse". Also, good thinking on picking up a junker with cosmetic issues but could have a decent mechanism.
palallin:
Marx, eh? I hadn't thought of that. Also, I might could use the bodies of cheaper "Scout" cars for hacking. Hm. Sounds to me like I ought amass boxes of junkers to set on the shelves to use for hack jobs!
I'll bet I can come up with some "do-able" cars to use for kit-bashing into various "missing" 1930s type boxcars/reefers/etc. The trick will be determining the path of least resistance.
All:
Did any mfg'er make a traditional-sized outside braced boxcar?
Andre
