TIU software update

http://www.protosound2.com/service/loader235.htm

http://www.protosound2.com

Download and install the Loader Program 5.0, run it and click on the update TIU software icon. Then, just exactly follow the on-screen instructions.

Joe;

Thanks for the info but the instructions you referred me to seem to be missing something.

For example, I'm running Win Home Premium SP1 64 bit and I have only USB ports (both 2.0 and 3.0).

The TIU is Rev. L with software ver. 4.2 (at least that's what the remote shows).

When I plug in the USB cable to the PC, it fails during the install of device driver software (FT232R USB UART)!

That is, Windows is looking for a driver for that device and failed to find one.

So, where do I get a driver for the FT232R USB UART device?

Do you use a Rev. L TIU?

Do you use a USB A-B cable from the TIU to the PC's USB port?

If your answer to both these questions is YES -- then my question is how?

Ray

Barry;

I don't think its as simple as you make it out to be.

For example, the loader program complains about no serial ports available.

Also, did you see my remark about the failed device driver install for device FT232R USB UART?

Ray

Ray,

When I plug in the USB cable to the PC, it fails during the install of device driver software (FT232R USB UART)!

That's a Windows issue, not a problem any MTH documentation is going solve.

I don't think its as simple as you make it out to be.

Actually, as far as doing the update itself, it is just that simple. Your problem is with Windows, not the Loader Program. If Windows cannot find a USB port driver, you should be calling Microsoft.

Why are you attempting to load a USB driver in the first place? That's pretty basic stuff and should already be pre-installed as part of the Windows software. Since you aren't using a USB to Serial cable, there is no USB driver software required for a TIU other than the basic Windows USB driver.

Barry;

I understand what you're saying and the distinction you make between what is and is not a loader vs. Windows problem.

But just let me ask you this one simple question:

Have you ever tried exactly what I'm trying to do?

That is have you updated a ver. 4.2 TIU rev. L using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable?

Ray

Barry;

Why are you attempting to load a USB driver in the first place? That's pretty basic stuff and should already be pre-installed as part of the Windows software. Since you aren't using a USB to Serial cable, there is no USB driver software required for a TIU other than the basic Windows USB driver.

I think you're mistaken about the only requirement being "the basic Windows USB driver".

I have a plain vanilla install of Windows Home Premium Ver. 7 with SP 1 64bit and all my USB devices work without any additional driver installs!

I'd like to know if anyone with a plain windows install (without any such gadgets such as a USB to serial cable) has been able to use the TIU with a USB cable WITHOUT any additional driver installs.

I suspect the folks who have used a rev. L TIU with a USB cable without any additional driver installs have done so because they already had a suitable driver in their windows system AND it didn't come from Microsoft!

I suspect these folks are the same ones who have used things such as the USB to serial cables FIRST, and then have gone on to use a rev L TIU with a USB cable!

FWIW -- Ray

Hi RAYL,

Perhaps this could help your situation:

At our club, we have recently updated our members` TIU and Remote DCS to DCS 5.0.  Some were at DCS 4.2 and others at DCS 4.3 before the update.  Most TIUs were REV.L, but some were of prior versions.

I personally did many REV.L updates to DCS 5.0 using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable.  No other source of power on the TIU (i.e. no power on FIX1 IN, no power on AUX Power Input, just the USB cable.)

While moving from one TIU to the other during the update effort, I have seen situations where the PC would not recognized the next TIU without a full reboot. 

Based on what I have experienced, I would recommend the following:  make sure to completely shutdown your PC, restart it, wait for the start process to fully complete, and then plug the TIU in the USB without starting anything else (no even the DCS Loader).  I have seen cases where the process of USB detection took up to a minute, so be patient.  If you do not get error message, it will be time to start the MTH DCS Consumer Loader V5.0. 

Hope this helps.

Daniel

Daniel;

Thanks for your reply.

I have one question:

Do you know for sure of anyone who was successful using the USB cable on a Rev L TIU 

who DID NOT EVER have any kind of USB to serial adapter of any kind previously in their Windows system?

The reason I'm asking this question is because I think the USB cable connection to a TIU makes use of what is called a VCP (Virtual Com Port) on the PC. Furthermore, I DO NOT think a normal install of Windows will provide the driver needed to implement a USB to serial conversion.

Also, I believe those people who were able to make use of a USB cable for their Rev. L TIU, ALREADY had a driver to implement a VCP in their windows driver library because they had previously used something that required that kind of driver -- such as the currently popular USB to serial cables which are needed these days since most current PCs don't have serial ports -- only USB ports.

I don't think a normal Windows install will provide a driver which implements a VCP, which is what a USB to serial port requires (i.e. a software construction of a USB to serial port!).

Ray

Ray,

That is have you updated a ver. 4.2 TIU rev. L using ONLY the mini-mini cable and the USB A-B cable?

Yes, at least 100 times.

I have a plain vanilla install of Windows Home Premium Ver. 7 with SP 1 64bit and all my USB devices work without any additional driver installs!

I'd like to know if anyone with a plain windows install (without any such gadgets such as a USB to serial cable) has been able to use the TIU with a USB cable WITHOUT any additional driver installs.

That's exactly what I use.

I suspect these folks are the same ones who have used things such as the USB to serial cables FIRST, and then have gone on to use a rev L TIU with a USB cable!

The two scenarios have nothing to do with each other.

The reason I'm asking this question is because I think the USB cable connection to a TIU makes use of what is called a VCP (Virtual Com Port) on the PC.

That is of little or no consequence as regards this discussion.

Furthermore, I DO NOT think a normal install of Windows will provide the driver needed to implement a USB to serial conversion.

Even of it doesn't, which I do not believe is the case, Windows should definitely have any needed USB driver available to load on demand.

Also, I believe those people who were able to make use of a USB cable for their Rev. L TIU, ALREADY had a driver to implement a VCP in their windows driver library because they had previously used something that required that kind of driver -- such as the currently popular USB to serial cables which are needed these days since most current PCs don't have serial ports -- only USB ports.

Again, the driver for a USB to Serial cable, which can vary depending on the specific cable and version of Windows, is not the issue. That driver, if needed, would sit above the native USB port driver from a software perspective.

Your problem needs to be addressed as a Windows-specific issue, by whoever supports your PC.

Barry;

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

The issue is if a company (in this case MTH) is going to sell a product which they claim to be able to be used by a PC running MS Windows, it is then incumbent upon them to mention what drivers are needed to make their product work!

In a sense, they do, but they do a real good job of hiding it!

You are wrong about the driver needed for the Rev. L TIU being part of a "regular" Windows install -- it is not!

If that were the case then MTH would not have a News Flash on their site:

"Windows USB Drivers For DCS Loader Program - March 24, 2015"

cf. the Note between items 4 & 5 clearly indicates the driver isn't always present!

You are also wrong about this statement of yours:

"Your problem needs to be addressed as a Windows-specific issue, by whoever supports your PC."

If you were correct, then MTH would NOT provide the location on the web to download the needed driver!

After all, MTH is not supporting my PC.

Ray

Ray,

If you were correct, then MTH would NOT provide the location on the web to download the needed driver!

Don't confuse a courtesy advisory with an obligation on MTH's part to keep your PC's software current. That obligation falls on you and Microsoft.

The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH. If you want to stay current with your Windows software turn on automatic updating for Windows. If Windows still doesn't load the latest versions of its own drivers, shame on Microsoft.

Further, loading a 3rd party's drivers for their own brand of Serial to USB cable has absolutely no effect on loading Microsoft's own Windows USB drivers.

Do you have automatic updating turned on for Windows? I do not because I want to get only what I need and not a lot of Windows updates for which I have no use. However, I'm a bit more computer-savvy than the average PC user and am able to divine pretty much exactly what I need, which isn't much since I do all of my real work on Macs. The PC lives in the train room and exists solely to talk to the layout's e electronics (DC & Legacy).

If you lack expert knowledge of Windows (that's not a knock on you since that's where the vast majority of PC users reside), you might want to consider turning on Windows automatic updating and then going out for a very long lunch while Windows update itself in oh-so-many-ways.  

Ray,

IMHO you are exactly correct!  The driver that is missing (it was missing on my Win7 PC also) is a driver USED by windows but should be (and is, once you find it)  SUPPLIED by MTH.

The driver is needed to allow Windows to use the electronics in the MTH manufactured TIU.

When Barry says, "The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH.", that is inaccurate.  If you follow the link provided in the March 24th News Flash, it doesn't point to a file at Microsoft, it points to a file at MTH.

This "courtesy advisory" is not an advisory, it's providing REQUIRED info on how to get the hardware provided by MTH to be accessed by Windows.  Had MTH used a different USB chip in their TIU, Microsoft may have had the driver installed as part of Windows, but in this case, the driver needed for Windows to "see" the TIU is a driver that works with the USB port in MTH's TIU.

When I upgraded my TIUs, I had the same issue you did so I grabbed a USB to Serial adapter that I had, and updated via the adapter.  In some searching after that, I discovered the missing USB driver, and now have the option of updating either way.

Hope your issue is resolved now that you have the MTH-supplied driver for Windows 7 and your TIU updated,

Ed

eddie,

Why haven't I, and I suspect the majority of others who have upgraded Rev. L TIUs via the USB port, ever needed to install this driver?

eddiem posted:

Ray,

IMHO you are exactly correct!  The driver that is missing (it was missing on my Win7 PC also) is a driver USED by windows but should be (and is, once you find it)  SUPPLIED by MTH.

The driver is needed to allow Windows to use the electronics in the MTH manufactured TIU.

When Barry says, "The problem is that your PC lacks the latest Windows USB drivers, The missing software comes from Microsoft, not MTH.", that is inaccurate.  If you follow the link provided in the March 24th News Flash, it doesn't point to a file at Microsoft, it points to a file at MTH.

This "courtesy advisory" is not an advisory, it's providing REQUIRED info on how to get the hardware provided by MTH to be accessed by Windows.  Had MTH used a different USB chip in their TIU, Microsoft may have had the driver installed as part of Windows, but in this case, the driver needed for Windows to "see" the TIU is a driver that works with the USB port in MTH's TIU.

When I upgraded my TIUs, I had the same issue you did so I grabbed a USB to Serial adapter that I had, and updated via the adapter.  In some searching after that, I discovered the missing USB driver, and now have the option of updating either way.

Hope your issue is resolved now that you have the MTH-supplied driver for Windows 7 and your TIU updated,

Ed

Ed;

Thanks for your support.

I begin my experience in electronics 54 years ago via the USAF in 1962 and my experience in computer programming 48 years ago in college.

Over the intervening years, I've come across many interesting problems/challenges.

I retired in 2008 after 36 years in the software industry working for the U.S. NAVY.

I have my PC on auto update and as you've indicated the driver does NOT come from Microsoft, but it does come from a Scottish Company called Future Technology Devices Inc. (FTDI) and it is they who supply the driver.

Also, as you point out, MTH designers elected to use FTDI's FT232RL chip in the TIU to implement the USB serial capability they desired since they apparently were unwilling to re-write the loader. It is the loader that requires a com port and since some machines don't have one, they needed a way to make use of a USB port to allow the loader to be fooled into thinking it was using a serial port -- hence the use of the Virtual Comm Port, which Barry insisted was irrelevant!

To answer Barry's question about why he and others have not had to load any drivers to use a rev. L TIU, I offer what I've already tried to offer: they probably had previously used something that required the FTDI driver and that was the source of their driver being available -- not Microsoft update!

It's easy enough to prove if anyone wants to (I have no problem doing it, but based on my recent discussions, I suspect it would fail to be accepted.)

All you have to do is do a fresh install of Windows (let's say Win 7) and then plug in your rev. L TIU and when you get the message about needing a driver, tell Windows to search it's update service and it will fail, since Microsoft doesn't supply the driver. At this point, you have to do what we've all done for so many years (I started with Windows ver. 2) and search the web for a driver!

Thanks to all for your support.

Ray

Ray,

they probably had previously used something that required the FTDI driver and that was the source of their driver being available -- not Microsoft update!

That's absolutely not the case.

Ray,

All you have to do is do a fresh install of Windows (let's say Win 7) and then plug in your rev. L TIU and when you get the message about needing a driver, tell Windows to search it's update service and it will fail, since Microsoft doesn't supply the driver. At this point, you have to do what we've all done for so many years (I started with Windows ver. 2) and search the web for a driver!

I tried this exactly on a new computer with Windows 7 - fresh install and did not have the situation you described.  My TIU connected right away without any driver download and I was able to backup my DCS remote data to that computer. Curious question, which web browser did you use in Windows ver. 2 to search the web?

h1000

Barry Broskowitz posted:

eddie,

Why haven't I, and I suspect the majority of others who have upgraded Rev. L TIUs via the USB port, ever needed to install this driver?

Barry,

As Ray explains in his reply,  the USB hardware chip in the MTH TIU is also used in many other USB-connected items and that the needed driver was provided on an install disk with a previously installed item without them even knowing it.  Not sure how it is "absolutely not the case"... it's certainly possible.

Absent some hard numbers, "suspecting a majority of others not needing this update" is IMHO, a stretch. 

To cite a recent web search, "The FTDI FT232 chip is found in thousands of electronic baubles, from Arduinos to test equipment, and more than a few bits of consumer electronics. It’s a simple chip, converting USB to a serial port, but very useful and probably one of the most cloned pieces of silicon on Earth."

In addition, I would guess that many TIU owners have a USB to Serial adapter that they used with older TIUs, like I did, and used that instead of the USB port.

As I think about it, some of the people who may have used a USB to Serial port adapter in the past, may have had the needed FTDI driver installed from a disk supplied with the USB to Serial adapter!  Perhaps that's why you already had it!

Ed

Ed, are you saying that this chip would be in a serial>USB adapter cable, so that the driver that comes with such a cable satisifes the above-argued need for a driver?