Train speed

I run both freight and passenger at about 30 mph as my layout is small and has O-54 curves - with trains crossing two bridges, through a tunnel, and past a town. 30 mph corresponds to 11 inches-per-second on a 1:48 layout.

MELGAR

I’m with Mel around 30 here’s a video of mine running around that

I like to run my trains on the slower side. I set the max speed on the DCS to 35. I typically run the freight trains slower 8 to 15. I like to run the passenger trains faster - usually 15 to 30 depending on location on layout. In the freight yard and deliveries, usually 5 to 10. This is slower than proto but makes the layout seem more real. The old timers who used to run the post war trains as kids, usually ran them fast much like a slot car track. Not for me. I like it slow.  

15, mebbe 20smph on the Plywood Empire Route.

Lew

My normal operating range is 27-30 scale miles per hour.

Curt

I typically run between 20 - 30 scale miles per hour. Occasionally I’ll run my passenger train at 35. 

I am a high baller from 60-120 scale miles per hour.

Max is scale 45 DCS on these guys..typically 5 to 30 running

Freight trains 30-60 smph, passenger/mail trains up to 80 smph. Santa Fe wasn't shy about running them fast.

Per my DCS readout, 25 to 30 MPH is the norm for the main lines.

I remember that the trains on the old O scale Chicago Museum of Science & Industry layout were run at a stately pace, which I would guess was no more than 35 scale MPH if not less. But then my Dad's contemporary AC motor Lionel trains had little slow speed capacity and mostly zoomed around his layout at high speed.

Many modern DC can motor-powered locos have the capacity to run at well over 100 scale MPH but my steamers just don't look right at such a pace. Diesel streamliners on the other hand . . .

My "rule of thumb": if it looks too fast, it is too fast!

I think the fastest I have run trains is 80-85 smph per the DCS Remote. Though I think most of the time I am right around 60 - 65 smph on the DCS remote. 

I run two trains at once on the same track, so I do keep it down.

IMO slower is the better route to go. If you take a look back at some old videos of trains, it can be slightly deceptive of how fast things are actually going(old film quality). Granted sometimes it is stated in these videos how fast the trains are running(usually passenger service trains), but watching them move at the high speeds on your track sort of gets old fast. Especially if you have tight curves and your engines are at risk of hopping off the rails. I'd say as a rule, go with what seems comfortable to you and your engines. After all, are those passengers/freight really in that much of a hurry to get where they're going?

Hancock52 posted:

I remember that the trains on the old O scale Chicago Museum of Science & Industry layout were run at a stately pace, which I would guess was no more than 35 scale MPH if not less. But then my Dad's contemporary AC motor Lionel trains had little slow speed capacity and mostly zoomed around his layout at high speed.

Many modern DC can motor-powered locos have the capacity to run at well over 100 scale MPH but my steamers just don't look right at such a pace. Diesel streamliners on the other hand . . .

Yes, I remember that the trains ran slow on the Museum layout! In my mind it made the layout seem larger. Also it provided time to listen to the recorded narration of the trip as the train proceeded across the landscape.

Lew

Steam Crazy posted:

My "rule of thumb": if it looks too fast, it is too fast!

Yes.

Some actual trains did/do run quite fast, and the 20th Century Limited and such did hit 3-digit speeds - but not most of the time, and not through crowded yards. So, erring on the slower side is best. I am surprised that there have not been more "speedometer" freight/passenger/caboose cars* offered over the years. These require no Legacy or DCS or whatever to give you the data and provide a bit of amusement.

Another thing usually overlooked by those in the Junior Scales when they turn up their noses at O-speeds: an O-scale train is literally larger than an HO train, so when it is traveling at a proper 60 smph (for example), it needs to be traveling faster (actual speed) than the smaller model - approaching twice as fast.

Proper speeds also reduce all that noise.

*Wouldn't a nice dynamometer car fit in here? None of those in 3RO either - why?

D500 posted:

Another thing usually overlooked by those in the Junior Scales when they turn up their noses at O-speeds: an O-scale train is literally larger than an HO train, so when it is traveling at a proper 60 smph (for example), it needs to be traveling faster (actual speed) than the smaller model - approaching twice as fast.

 

Scale GS4 Northern at 75 scale mph on the DCS remote. It looks like it's really moving because it is. 75 scale mph in HO is not going to look as fast. If you've ever had an intermodal train pass you at 70 mph you know that it looks fast, even in real life, because it is fast.

So just in time for this thread. I have a carpet layout set up and I am running my trains off of DCS 60-65 scale mph, they look kinda slow, don't know if that was me or something I'm doing wrong, or if its normal. I ask because I thought my Lionel trains that I have run under TMCC ran at breakneck speed. So I set up my TMCC and whoa! They fly around the track! Some I am doing wrong or is this normal. Thanks In Advance.

If you have a large-enough layout with wide-radius curves, running fast can look and sound realistic, especially with a steam engine. I have (larger than) O-72 curves and (almost) 6-foot straights on my 12'-by-8' layout and sometimes run my PRR G5s at 70 smph. It has great chuffing sounds and whistle, so high-speed is entertaining on this twenty-year-old MTH PS1 engine and observation car.

MELGAR

Someone had to do the top speed testing on them; might as well be my trains modeling it

ConrailFan posted:

So just in time for this thread. I have a carpet layout set up and I am running my trains off of DCS 60-65 scale mph, they look kinda slow, don't know if that was me or something I'm doing wrong, or if its normal. I ask because I thought my Lionel trains that I have run under TMCC ran at breakneck speed. So I set up my TMCC and whoa! They fly around the track! Some I am doing wrong or is this normal. Thanks In Advance.

I was under the impression dcs had a slight advantage at lower speeds,Legacy evened that up I believe. You don't really  describe your exact system setup enough to rule out other explanations either though. Certain applications could have one or the other running in a conventional aspect at times is my first thought; or change in wire gauge between set ups, feed style, number of drops; or power supply changes; etc, etc.; could have impact on efficiency at low speed.

This speed looks pretty good.  Model that...   

I concur with Bart1 and have observed my own videos show the train to be going much faster than I was running them when I shoot the video and faster than I normally run them.  I do not know the cause as my camera does not have video speed control.  I plan to shoot future videos with as slow as I can run post war conventional Lionel and Marx engines.

Charlie

I notch it up to 65 smp and sometimes 70smp.I go with I saw as a kid.SCL put new meaning to fast freight.Come to think of it southern was not slow ether.

Bart1 posted:

Is any type of standard speed (Scale Wise) to run your train that does not make them seem like they are going to fast around the layout?

That perfect speed is what you think makes them look good.  Your RR, so you're the boss.

Adriatic- I have a carpet layout about 15ft long with 072 curves at each end about four drops, two on each side midway between the curves. I have a DCS setup with a TIU on one side with 180W PH and  and a TMCC setup with the 135W PH with a Powermaster and a command base, independently about 6 feet down on the same side. Both setups are before the drops. I don't run them together, just separate.

The most accurate way to measure the speed of your train is to time it over a set distance.  Knowing that 60 mph is traveling one mile in one minute, a person can do some simple math and work up a chart to show scale mph by simply using a stopwatch to time their train between two measured points on the layout. 

But with O-gauge, there seems to be a slight problem - and that is trying to figure out just exactly what scale you have to start with!  For instance, you might go bonkers trying to figure out your speed if your train consists of a true 1/48 scale locomotive pulling a string of conventional-sized or traditional-sized (?/?? scale) freight cars and followed up with an O27-sized (1/64 scale?) caboose. 

Which makes me wonder then, just how accurate is a DCS speed reading, anyway?    I think I know the answer to that, but I'll let you figure it out on your own.  

I run my G Scale LGB Amtrack just shy of flying off the bridges on my outdoor layout.    I also model some pretty realistic crashes sometimes.  I went to the Addam's school of railroad engineering.

Chris S.

Adriatic posted:

I was under the impression dcs had a slight advantage at lower speeds, Legacy evened that up I believe. 

Unless something has changed with DCS, I have found that the very slow speed control (less than 5 MPH shown on the remote) is vastly inferior to Legacy. My PS2 and PS3 models don't even move until the speed on the remote is shown as 3 MPH and even then it's jerky.

Years ago Phil at TAS, who was doing a PS2 upgrade for me, said that there was some system limitation with DCS that caused this. I can't say that any MTH engine I've got since shows any improvement.

It you want an engine that creeps along at really prototypical switcher speed, including when it's pulling several cars, the VL Gensets can't be beat.

I like freight trains moving slowly, say around 15-17 mph. I never run my trains above 20 mph. Running too fast just don't look right no matter how prototypical it may be. 

Dave

I use my imagination when I watch a high speed train running on my layout, and usually don't watch in the curves! 😂. More accurately my thought is that it's a train passing through the scene that encompasses just the straight away.  At times I like to capture that scene in pictures or videos.   All layouts have an intersection with reality, it's just a matter of setting one in your mind's eye (or something, hard to put it to words). 

ConrailFan posted:

Adriatic- I have a carpet layout about 15ft long with 072 curves at each end about four drops, two on each side midway between the curves. I have a DCS setup with a TIU on one side with 180W PH and  and a TMCC setup with the 135W PH with a Powermaster and a command base, independently about 6 feet down on the same side. Both setups are before the drops. I don't run them together, just separate.

Swap power supplies and if the difference doesn't follow then I'd have to say dcs control seems to have a torque advantage.

 A finer asjustment on the controllers is all I can think of in command.

  The powermaster implies conventonal, dcs has that ability alone. The shape of the power wave is different between those outputs though they do nearly the same thing. 

 So, that isn't sounding like 100% command control. More accurately; command systems acting as remote control electronic rheostat.

Actual command modes will have 14v-18v to the track full time and should run smoother.

I ony run conventional. And slower on the layouts (9 at the moment, 20" to 12x15' ) or with tight turns, or with plastics, than on the floor or with all metal loco's.

Attached is a chart of scale speeds based on one scale mile for HO  60.7'mile, S  82.5' mile, and 110' mile for O scale.  Most layouts are far to small to use scale speeds as a standard as your trains will end up laping your layout in a matter of seconds.  One scale mile in O scale is 110' that is about 5.75 laps on an O-72 circle of track.          j

ConrailFan posted:

So just in time for this thread. I have a carpet layout set up and I am running my trains off of DCS 60-65 scale mph, they look kinda slow, don't know if that was me or something I'm doing wrong, or if its normal. I ask because I thought my Lionel trains that I have run under TMCC ran at breakneck speed. So I set up my TMCC and whoa! They fly around the track! Some I am doing wrong or is this normal. Thanks In Advance.

I can't comment on the control systems, but I might point out that the perceived speed of the train will vary according to your point of view, just as with real trains, cars, whatever. If you are standing right next to it when it goes by, it feels faster than it does when it is farther away. Perspective scales up just as speed does. So if you are sitting in a chair (let's assume your eye level is three feet from the floor) and your train is four feet from your feet (six feet from a point on the floor directly beneath your seat).... Pythagoras says that your eyeballs are over 300 scale feet from the train. Put your head on the floor like we all did when we were kids and the train will go much faster!

Hancock52 posted:

Adriatic posted:

I was under the impression dcs had a slight advantage at lower speeds, Legacy evened that up I believe. 

Unless something has changed with DCS, I have found that the very slow speed control (less than 5 MPH shown on the remote) is vastly inferior to Legacy. My PS2 and PS3 models don't even move until the speed on the remote is shown as 3 MPH and even then it's jerky.

Years ago Phil at TAS, who was doing a PS2 upgrade for me, said that there was some system limitation with DCS that caused this. I can't say that any MTH engine I've got since shows any improvement.

It you want an engine that creeps along at really prototypical switcher speed, including when it's pulling several cars, the VL Gensets can't be beat.

It's a known issue with DCS that low speeds are not consistent.  Usually, when you get to around 3-4 scale MPH it all smooths out, but MTH actually only says that 5 scale MPH and greater are guaranteed to run smoothly.  I know that only one or two of my MTH locomotives truly run smoothly at really low speeds like 2 scale MPH.

OTOH, I have some Legacy locomotives that you have to time with a sundial they're so slow at the first speed step.  The Vision Line Genset comes to mind, it's my low speed champ!

Trains ran fast, many still do. I like a speed that gives that illusion. I chuckle to myself watching club members run their name trains at 30 SMPH.

Well, some trains run fast, but when I'm at the local RR crossing, some of the freights seem to take forever.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hancock52 posted:

Adriatic posted:

I was under the impression dcs had a slight advantage at lower speeds, Legacy evened that up I believe. 

Unless something has changed with DCS, I have found that the very slow speed control (less than 5 MPH shown on the remote) is vastly inferior to Legacy. My PS2 and PS3 models don't even move until the speed on the remote is shown as 3 MPH and even then it's jerky.

Years ago Phil at TAS, who was doing a PS2 upgrade for me, said that there was some system limitation with DCS that caused this. I can't say that any MTH engine I've got since shows any improvement.

It you want an engine that creeps along at really prototypical switcher speed, including when it's pulling several cars, the VL Gensets can't be beat.

It's a known issue with DCS that low speeds are not consistent.  Usually, when you get to around 3-4 scale MPH it all smooths out, but MTH actually only says that 5 scale MPH and greater are guaranteed to run smoothly.  I know that only one or two of my MTH locomotives truly run smoothly at really low speeds like 2 scale MPH.

OTOH, I have some Legacy locomotives that you have to time with a sundial they're so slow at the first speed step.  The Vision Line Genset comes to mind, it's my low speed champ!

My two slowest runners are a Premier SP GS4 Northern that was originally PS1 and converted to PS2 3V. It will creep along at 2 scale mph without issue. My other 2 factory Premier PS2 3V steam locomotives (Santa Fe 3460 class 4-6-4 Hudson and Santa Fe 2-10-4 Texas) won't run reliably below 5 scale mph without some jerking/bucking. The slow speed champ is a very early MTH Premier Baldwin AS-616 I converted to ERR Cruise commander. It will run on speed step 1 (on a 100 scale) as long as you want. I don't have the patience to watch it pull a train that slow for that long.

I vary speed based on how I feel that day - like why am I running my trains.  I have my DCS units set at 45 for max speed on some trains but there's a reason for that that does not involve my speed preference.  Three of my five trains run on trackage that uses 27" curves and switches (along with bigger) and when kids visit and want to run them, the easiest way that I can control what they WANT TO DO is to force 45 as max.

On 2 of my tin-plate trains that use wider curves and switches I let them go to 60 because tin-plate is more toy anyways.

I never really run my trains for realism though.  My layout is a toy layout, even though well scenicked.

- walt

I did not have a DCS system till around two years, though I had collected about 20 PS2 and 3 locos, I used to set my TMCC loco top speeds based on one mile in O scale is 110' which is 5.75 laps on a circle of O-72 track so if a prototype had a top speed of 75mph it would take 48 seconds to make 5.75 laps on my O-72 test track. One thing I found was all of my locos would stay on the track when running on a circle of O-72 at 100 scale mph.  Not that I normally run that fast.  I usually limit my passenger trains to 65mph and freight to 40mph. Another thing I noticed was that traction tires that were not glued on would not stay on long at 100 mph scale. I am reposting a scale speed chart as a jpeg that I posted earlier as a DOC. file as someone complained they could not open it.  Hope it helps you determing how fast your driving.          j

I used a different table that breaks down speeds according to the number of inches traveled in a specific time period. For O scale, the number of inches traveled in 2.5 seconds is the scale MPH.

---PCJ

RailRide posted:

I used a different table that breaks down speeds according to the number of inches traveled in a specific time period. For O scale, the number of inches traveled in 2.5 seconds is the scale MPH.

---PCJ

That is only a very rough estimate  and would depend on your ability to look at a stop watch and the loco at the same time for 2.5 seconds and accurately mark the point you start your measurement and where you end.  You end up off by almost 10% if you use 2.5 seconds 2.72727 (2.7) would be closer.    I hate to do arithmetic on a key board but here goes.   one mile = 5280' X 12" = 63360" in one mile  divided by 3600 seconds per hour  63360"/3600 = 17.6" per second is one MPH life size, divide that by 48 for O scale  17.6" / 48 = .366666" per second is one MPH in 1/48th  O scale.  .366666" X 2.5 = .9166  is short it should equal one.   Try 2.72727 X .366666" = .99999 that would be less than 1/10 of one percent off.  That's if your able to measure an accurate 2.72727 seconds and at the same time, accurately measure the distance the train traveled. Counting 1001,1002, 1003 would probably allow you to watch the train and mentally mark the start point and end. Still, it would be easy to be off by 10% in both your time and your distance traveled for a 20% cumulative error. You might as well guess,  2.5 or 2.7 seconds is just too short a time for any kind of accuracy.     Timing the length of time to travel a known distance is MUCH easier.  BTW, about the table in my post, I made it so that I could easily set the top speed of my locos accurately within one or two scale mph in TMCC. It's off less than one percent at each speed.       j

The most accurate way to determine the scale speed of your model train is to run it at fixed throttle or speed over a closed loop.  First, measure or calculate the distance (in feet or inches) around the loop. Then, measure the time (in seconds) required to complete the loop. For O gauge/O scale 1:48, the scale speed (miles per hour) will be:

SMPH = ((distance around loop - feet) / (measured time - seconds)) X 48 X 3600 / 5280

which is equal to:

SMPH = 32.727 X (distance around loop - feet) / (measured time - seconds)

If you measure the loop distance in inches, the equation becomes:

SMPH = ((distance around loop - inch) / (measured time - seconds)) X 4 X 3600 / 5280

which is equal to:

SMPH = 2.727 X (distance around loop - inches) / (measured time - seconds)

If you insist on higher accuracy, run the train ten times around the loop, measure the time and don't forget to multiply the loop distance by ten before using these equations.

MELGAR

Guys, thanks for all the info and responses! Much appreciated! I will digest it all and get back with what I find. Thanks again.

I measured my around the room layout at .7miles.  I have an Ipad and use a stopwatch App and then, knowing the distance and time, use a Time-Speed-Distance App to see how fast my BPRC equipped engines/trains are going.

I also use the DecibelX App to see how much noise my layout makes.