Transformer Choice

Steve,

For goodness sakes...Retire the CW-80. Use it for minor layout needs. Since you're into Legacy, purchase the proper transformer. IMHO, I think you're heading for trouble. I'm into prewar only so my needs are not the same as yours. Please, listen to the experienced Lionel folks. BTW, Welcome to the forum.

You need to do some research here on the forum into Transient Voltage Supression if you are interested in protecting your on-board electronics.  Hint - it's not really anything having to do with the transformer(s).

Pappy,

Agreed. I've pretty much been a simple loop runner since I've moved to Atlanta, but the Legacy bug bit hard.

I'm very left brained, so creating switching puzzles (with multiple engines) very much intrigues me. Legacy affords operation that conventional cannot.

Steve

I am a huge fan of the Lionel modern ZW with 2 180 watt bricks.  The bricks have the fastest breakers I have ever seen and as your empire grows, you can add up toe two more bricks making a total of 720 watts and control for four tracks.  Right now seems to be a good time to find a really good deal on one of these as some users are replacing them with the new Lionel ZW-L.  LORDtryzALOT has one listed on the OGR forum for $275 which I think is a great price.

Good luck on your decision and happy railroading,

Don

Hi DGJONES,

Are you running conventional only? I have the ZW as well and I am planning to build a layout soon.  I have some engines with DCS Proto 2.0, some with TMCC and a lot of conventional.  I was thinking of getting DCS and having a toggle switch to use the ZW when using my conventional units.   What do you think?

Thanks,

Jim

Where in the circuit do you plan to install the switch? I'm not clear on what you are trying to switch.

I am or have been intimately involved with five layouts that use this transformer and run both TMCC/Legacy and DCS at the same time and on the same track without any problems.  I remember several years ago that CTT ran an article about a switch to run TMCC or DCS on the same layout but I could never understand why anyone would want to do that when they are so compatible.  I have gotten pretty good running my MTH engines with the DCS remote in my left hand and Lionel or other TMCC engines with the Legacy remote in my right hand.  Also, since the ZW controller is actually 4 track power controllers, you can also use the CAB 1 or CAB 2 to control track power to up to four separate tracks for running conventional engines. 

Good luck and happy railroading,

Don

Steve,

   Look into what you most want, I run my DCS layout with a Z4K, 2 ZW's and 2 KW's, when the new DCS remote comes out, I am going to upgrade to a Z4K and a ZW on each of the 2 TIU's and use the KW's strictly for switches. 

I would love a new ZW-L but for my layout it would not really make much of a difference.

PCRR/Dave

As you can see, most people are proponents of what has worked well for them.  You have to decide on the basis of your own needs, however.  I still use two CW-80s for minor loops on my layout - where I know I will never run anything with excessive power demands.  As long as you don't need more than 5 amps, they are adequate - no need to get rid of them.  The breaker protection on them is adequate, in my opinion.

The ZW with bricks is a great combination.  The Z4000 is splendid - I had one for five years - always swore by it, never at it.  Either one provides 10 amps and so powers really big hungry trains.  But the new ZW-L is, in my opinion, the royalty among power supplies right now.  It has a total of 630 watts it can distribute among its four outputs, up to ten amps per output.  It uses a type of chopper circuit to assure awesome conventional slow speed running (much better than the CW-80 and the Z4000, anyway, ifjust slightly less slow than the best Legacy).   To your question about protection, it has three levels of protection as explained on the first page of the users guide, with good breakers, but two sets of additional fast protection sensing circuits designed for modern locos, etc., that try to intervene first.     Of course, it costs a princely sum, as royalty should . . .

Steve,

All you need to "run" TMCC/Legacy/DCS/Conventional engines is:

TMCC or Legacy Command Base

DCS TIU

DCS Handheld Remote

Transformer with 18 volt output (I'm using a Lionel PowerHouse 180)

and various cables to run between them

This setup will run engines from Lionel, MTH, Weaver, Atlas, 3rd Rail, and Williams By Bachmann.

I have a 12x12 layout and can do a lot switching and can also run loops by putting in the diagonal liftout section at bottom left:

I only have 1 conventional engine left now, a MTH RS3 with Locosounds (which I plan on upgrading to either PS2 or ERR Cruise with Railsounds 4).  Once I got away from having to tap the direction button a few times to change direction I realized how much more fun command control was, plus you'll have the ability to slow your engines down to a crawl.  Even the RS3 (running in conventional) can be slowed down to under 5mph.  Having to cycle thru F/N/R on conventional engines, to me, is a PITA, I've never been confident that the engine cycled like it was suppose to and have had more than one occasion that it didn't.

Rob

In dealing with TVS, is there a regret in putting a low voltage surge suppressor inline from the transformer to the track? It certainly seems the simplest.

I'm specifically looking here, http://www.scottsodds-n-ends.c...-surge_arrestors.htm.

Lee

Lately I've just been loop running but the desire of a switching layout similar to Bob's above is what I'm striving for in the not-too-distant future. I'd imagine a ZW-C would be more than adequate. Though the new ZW-Ls are intriguing. I need to read your post on them more thoroughly before making a decision.

Thanks all!

Steve

1) Cost (should not be much of a factor, though, based on the investment in trains)

2) Location - TVS protection is some distance from the circuit board you want to protect

3) Redundancy -  If using TIUs or other (QSI, K-Line, eg.) protection

4) Complexity - up to 24 additional track power connections/junctions

Rob,

Would you recommend one of these in each engine? Putting the diode wherever it fits best. In doing some searching it seems to the what a lot of members do.

http://www.mouser.com/Circuit-....5KE33CA&FS=True

Steve

I put the TVS on the track feeds, and whenever I open an engine for any other reason, I put one into it as well.  The best protection for that locomotive is right in the locomotive.

That's fine, I use the 36's instead of the 33's.

I use the 36 volt ones as well.

If you are only running Conventional and Legacy I would recommend the Lionel GW-180 6-37947, it is one 180w brick and a controller for conventional.  This is good for one loop.  Used ZWs can be a good choice in that they are plentiful because of the new improved ZW-L that just came out.

Also, for protection I would recommend the Lionel TMCC Direct Lockon, 6-34120.  It has over current protection with auto reset.  I have seen these work on club members layouts and am considering them for mine.  These two suggestions are to keep the cost reasonable and operation simple.  If you think you will be going all out with four loops or three loops with a large switching yard the the new ZW comes into play.  

My self I run Legacy/DCS so I am connecting Lionel Bricks to the TIU and Legacy base so I can run anything, even a little conventional on the TIU variable outputs.

Dan

The TMCC Direct Lockon is not useful for conventional running, it assumes it always has at least 10-12 volts.

Steve,

Here's a plan I've been working on to replace the one above:

This one has 090 outer curves and 072 inner curves so I can run some passenger trains around.  I've dropped down to only 2 industrial sidings, but plan on making larger industries for them than the small ones I use now.

It also has a Wye so I can run in either direction.

The original layout has just 2 wires going to the track with 2-3 feeders around the layout.  I have had no problems so far in this 12x12 (plus the 2x8 extension on the side) layout space.