Unusual Menards Tubular Track Question....

take one piece at a time and hook it to your transformer and see if that works and maybe you'll find a bad piece. It could just be the insulation on one of the ties to the middle track

Bill...

Thank you! You're on the right track, may have just a couple questions. I actually had taken two pcs of Menards track and I pulled them apart...1st one it wouldn't run, second one took right off...I actually had 6 pcs of straight track so I tryed them all....I just kept adding the pcs to the end....three out of the six work, three don't....so clearly somethings going on there...

May I ask, what should I be looking for? The only thing I can see is perhaps when they crimped the "ties" to the tube track they crimp a bit too hard and it goes through the insulating material?

If that is the case, how do you handle that, uncrimp each pc and put new material in?

Thanks again, very helpful....

if Menards isn't far I would take the bad pieces back and explain to them there shorting out. I like your transformer but think maybe you should upgrade a few years as if you had a relay in it, it would of tripped you would know there was a problem. I like post war ZW  as it will lite up the red bulb telling you of a problem. I'm sure there are other transformers also that tell you but that's the one that comes to mind.  or get a relay for in between as they did make them back in prewar time I think. The one I'm thinking of had a bulb inside and would light up. 

Okay back to your original question you could try what you said as that's the only place I can think of it shorting

I do think I'll be taking these back Bill....if they are brand new having this problem it could only hurt down the road when fastened down. I was looking at the track and you know, I love this stuff because it sure appears to built unbelievably heavy, and looks good, but a guy shouldn't have problems right from the getgo like this, least not on so many pcs. If I had to pick a problem, it sure looks like their clearances between that insulating material and the track are almost nothing....also looks like it would be a nightmare to take apart and put back together.

I actually do have a better transformer, I was testing that also, it came with the train. But I wasn't aware there were any that lit up if there was a problem, I'll check into that. Thank you Bill, I do appreciate it.

My layout is all Menards. I learned early on to check each piece as I went. I tightened the ends and pins up, and checked the insulators on the center track. I kept a meter handy at first, and checked for continuity across  the rails, to find problems. Soon I could pick out problem tracks just by looking at the insulators . IMO taking them back will take you longer than just adjusting them, which you should be doing as you go anyhow...

That picture of the straight track just to the left of the curve has a funny looking crimp on the center rail left side. Maybe just one piece is bad.

Use a meter to test each section for a short circuit.

I have no problem adjusting these guys, but for my purposes probably not the best option. I've only used Fastrack before, also MTH Realtrax....but this is not for a "permanent" layout. I just wanted a small loop that I could put up/take down etc. Had no idea there were issues like this with tubetrack. I actually have some old track in the garage, that's what I've used in the past and it always works great, loose pin joints and all. I just wanted something a bit neater and cleaner for this...no worries though, this isn't the end of the world.

I purchased 24 pcs of track, it would seem after checking them one by one 11 of them are "shorting out". Seems like a pretty high defect rate for a brand new product. 

In my humble opinion that percentage is a little too high. If I was mounting them permanent, I'd go through them and not worry. And who knows, most likely I'll hang onto them, mount them on a pc of plywood that I can use when I want. Time will tell...but in the meantime, I'll just use Fastrack for a set up/take down situation. I have nothing against this track though and if I was building a solid permanent layout, I'd use it in a heartbeat for that. Can't believe how heavy it is...and I sure love the look of this track. 

I am curious, regarding loose pin joints, shorts etc, is that the norm for all tubular track generally speaking? I know that's a touchy subject, I'm just speaking in general terms...

The only solution I can think of is to have the pretty girl from the Menards ads to come over to your house to stand on them.

SJS

I tryed alligator clips transformer to track and nothing.....

Sounds like your transformer does not have a circuit breaker. Otherwise you probably would have noticed that it was tripping.
IMHO, all transformers / layouts need to have some sort of circuit protection. I would not use one without it.

One poster mentioned that he had an 11/24 failure rate. That is over 45 percent. Seems the vendor has a real problem. I hope they are able to straighten things out.

mtj54 posted:

snip...

I am curious, regarding loose pin joints, shorts etc, is that the norm for all tubular track generally speaking? I know that's a touchy subject, I'm just speaking in general terms...

It's not the norm, but teething issues with a new product. I am sure it will be sorted out. Somebody over set the crimper tension at the plant .

C W...You are absolutely correct, when I snapped that photo it was when I was testing individual pcs is all. And actually I was curious right at that point if the transformer that came with a recent train set purchase worked. (experimenting" if you will. I do not have a permanent layout right now but have used in the past and will use in the future either a Lionel KW or a ZW I had rebuilt and tucked away. I know the ZW has circuit protection, and if memory serves I think the KW does also. Bad choice of photo right at that time though...

And, in Menards defense, I just purhased this track, it was just about all they had in store left from last year. The high failure rate may well be because someone else had troubles and took them back already. I wouldn't hesitate for even a second to purchase Menards track again.

Although Serenska, if I ever get anyone to stand on the track it'll have to be the Menards girl, it sure won't hold me :-)

Hey Guys--  The heck with Menards.  When I saw that girl standing on the track in the ad, I was suspicious.  With that bad a product, don't support it.  It cheats all of the Lionel fans in the hobby.  Stick with good old Lionel tubular track--a proven winner for many years !

On my layout, I glue down black wood ties from a guy in Florida and the track looks a whole lot better.  Have put down about 800 already !

KRK

 I know the ZW has circuit protection, and if memory serves I think the KW does also. Bad choice of photo right at that time though...

The circuit protection in a Postwar Lionel ZW or KW transformer is designed to protect the transformer only. The amount of trip current is high, and the length of time it takes is too long. Plus the circuit breakers are installed in such a way that not every potential circuit is protected.

IMHO these large Postwar Lionel transformers should only be used with supplemental external circuit protection. I use Postwar Lionel #91 electromagnetic circuit breakers, one on each of the power terminals "A" through "D".
Folks running trains will electronics would do well to also use TVS devices.

There are many other solutions, and there have been numerous threads discussing this issue in the past.

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Use a meter to test each section for a short circuit.

Or rig up a light bulb in series with a test lead.  Touch one lead to outside rail and other to center. Light on or dim - bad track. No light - "good" track. Of course track could still have problems, loose pin crimps, openings too wide etc.

rrman posted:

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Use a meter to test each section for a short circuit.

Or rig up a light bulb in series with a test lead.  Touch one lead to outside rail and other to center. Light on or dim - bad track. No light - "good" track. Of course track could still have problems, loose pin crimps, openings too wide etc.

I think it's easier than this:

• Take a 1033 transfromer or any transformer you have in your spare parts box.  Plug it in.
  
  
• Hook up two wires to the leads; one to the hot lead and the "U" common ground lead.
  
  
• Turn the voltage on the transformer to any voltage value greater than zero.
  
  
• Touch one wire to the center rail of the piece of track you're testing.  
  
  
• While holding the wire to the center rail, quickly touch the other wire to an outside rail
  
      => If there's a spark of any sort, the track is bad.  Put it in the bad pile.
  
      => If there are no sparks, the track is good.  Put it in the good pile.
  
  
• When you're done, take the "bad pile" back to Menards.
  
  
• Before leaving Menards, if possible, do the same test in the store (i.e., to save yourself both fuel and time).  If the track fails the test, put it in Menards' "bad pile", not yours..

Is it more complicated than this?  What am I missing?

Steven J. Serenska

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Use a meter to test each section for a short circuit.

Surely that is the simplest way to test the track.

If Menard's has had an issue with crimping the center-rail insulators too hard, let's hope they fix the quality control problem and let us know about it. It's good to see a new source of modestly-priced traditional tubular track.

Ace posted:

Arthur P. Bloom posted:

Use a meter to test each section for a short circuit.

Surely that is the simplest way to test the track.

If Menard's has had an issue with crimping the center-rail insulators too hard, let's hope they fix the quality control problem and let us know about it. It's good to see a new source of modestly-priced traditional tubular track.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Competition in the market place is always a good thing in my opinion.

The suggestion on external circuit breakers is a good one, especially for the Jefferson Midgets, I don't think that has any protection. ( But are great little units!)

If your not going to exchange them, you should test rack with what ever means you can, an ohm meter preferably. 

To repair pry the tabs up, and add a new often larger square inch of insulator, push the tabs back. You can buy the thick paper, but I've replaced plenty of Lionel insulators ( even brand new Lionel track has a hickup every so often, and they have 100 years experience) I use thick shoebox cardboard, matchbook covers, cereal box, etc. sometimes doubled over, and never had an issue. Some of those repairs are about 40 years old. Some folks wrap a small piece of electrical tape around the insulation because the cardboards color doesn't suit them.

On the thickness of Menards, it was stated it would be heavy duty, closer to Lionel full O vs Lionel 027 which is shorter and lighter than O by Lionel, But I'm curious if you even know full O is thicker than 027 and if you did, is Menards heavier than full O from Lionel?

Not necessarily related except for use with something like the Jefferson on a bigger layout, but I wonder if there is more resistance per foot? Are the pins solid or hollow? I use solid, and don't trust the hollow ones after many issues and seeing one red hot doing a night run. If hollow I'd replace the center rail pin with a solid one at the least.

Buyer beware ... apparently the trackmaker of Menards' AF tubular track has a major quality control problem.  11 bad pieces of 24 isn't a mere hiccup; it's a big SNAFU. Someone on the manufacturing line may be fired for this.  The Marketing Dept at Menards must jump on this problem and fix it before it's widely exposed in hobby media publications. 

Mike