The move of the 4014 across to the Metrolink station will begin on Thursday the 14th...you can read about it here.
Also a short video on the panel track.
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The move of the 4014 across to the Metrolink station will begin on Thursday the 14th...you can read about it here.
Also a short video on the panel track.
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Great News, hopefully be heading East soon, I can hardly wait to see her in Utah
Ed Dickens? Any relationship to the author?
Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....
Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....
Meh the 3985 is yesterdays news, the Big Boy has more all around awesomeness
Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....
Meh the 3985 is yesterdays news, the Big Boy has more all around awesomeness
It may be "yesterdays news" to YOU, but to some of us, not to mention hundreds of thousands of fans world wide, the loss of UP 3985 will NOT be forgotten.
Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....
Meh the 3985 is yesterdays news, the Big Boy has more all around awesomeness
It may be "yesterdays news" to YOU, but to some of us, not to mention hundreds of thousands of fans world wide, the loss of UP 3985 will NOT be forgotten.
And the Big Boy ain't nowhere near done, yet.
Awesome happens when it moves under it's own power.
Rusty
WOW-CHRIS-THANK YOU-to see a real big boy on the move again-its a national treasure
that symbolizes everything great about the us.the sf f7 is fantastic too-what a sight
to see.thank you joe
Moving ever so slowly, Looking forward to the videos of it moving to it's home base this winter.
move about a foot and lube something behind the right front cylinder. what would that be? has happened several times.
how much panel track did they put down. looks like they may run out soon. has moved about 50 feet, i think.
move about a foot and lube something behind the right front cylinder. what would that be? has happened several times.
They're greasing the flanges, I believe Ed said there is a hump there in the track and the weight was coming off the front engine causing the wheel to raise/bind a bit.
The parking lot at the Fairplex is really uneven and lumpy, can they do anything to shim under the panel track?
The parking lot at the Fairplex is really uneven and lumpy, can they do anything to shim under the panel track?
Look closely,,,,,they already are.
how much panel track did they put down. looks like they may run out soon. has moved about 50 feet, i think.
they put down a few hundred feet move the big boy and then move the track and use it over.
the big boy has officially left the rail giants museum never to return again. this is very exciting to watch the big boy move slowly across the parking lot. history in the making.
i am impressed by this: that front loader gives a little yank and she rolls right along creating slack in the tow line.
UP just published this on Facebook "Union Pacific's Big Boy No. 4014 was successfully moved 1,200 feet this morning"
Pretty impressive, was not expecting that much
It was very impressive. They took it slow and she is 1200' closer to life.
and they are not done for today yet!
The webcam is still up, there taking up the panel track from where they began and are repositioning it behind the 4014 to continue the move. That will most likely continue tomorrow.
Been watching off/on since about 11:00 CST. Very, very impressive and it certainly looks like a lot of work. Great job to everyone involved!
Everyone have a nice evening.
Ken
hey hotwater in the video it says and shows replaced new bolts on rear coupler in video the crack with a bolt in it means nothing looks to be on same part as coupler rig what gives cause you would know
hey hotwater in the video it says and shows replaced new bolts on rear coupler in video the crack with a bolt in it means nothing looks to be on same part as coupler rig what gives cause you would know
Sorry, I have no idea exactly what you are referring to, especially since I have not been following this whole thing anyway. When 4014 finally gets on the move to Cheyenne, then it might become of interest for me.
Here's a few shots from this afternoon after it had been moved, and they were waiting for more track panels to be brought in.
I took my Legacy 4014 in for a few glamour shots!
Good one Dennis. Suddenly 1:48 seems small.
It's Doug, Elliot...but that's OK...I've been called much worse! It looked like Z scale when you stood back to look at the "big picture".
I'm sorry Doug, I've known your name for a while too. I just don't use it often enough, and my brain gets cob webs. Got the first letter right.
hey hotwater in the video it says and shows replaced new bolts on rear coupler in video the crack with a bolt in it means nothing looks to be on same part as coupler rig what gives cause you would know
They replaced all the bolts on the draft gear, I see the crack your referring to...they must not be concerned about it at this point.
Doug excellent photos...sure was nice to see her rolling. It must have been something in person. Thanks for the pics.
Here's a few shots from this afternoon after it had been moved, and they were waiting for more track panels to be brought in.
I saw you show up and place the scale big boy on the real one, the guy from trains magazine thought what you did was pretty cool. He talked about it of a while. When you moved the scale unit to the front he said "I have to now and get another picture".
Thanks.
Wow more great photos, thank you.
Once they get to the Metrolink rail how do they transition from the temporary track to the mainline?
I believe they are going to actually cut metro links rails and tie in that way.
Maybe I missed it, but any idea when it will be moving up Cajon Pass?
Bob
Maybe I missed it, but any idea when it will be moving up Cajon Pass?
Bob
Probably in December, since they will be spending some time at the Colton Diesel Shop to service the driver axle journal boxes (done while over a diesel pit), then put all the rods and valve gear linkage back on (so that all the mechanical lubricators will function while being towed). Having all the rods on, without the pistons being in place, will maintain rotational balance of all the running gear, but eliminate the "pumping of air & compression" of the pistons & valves.
oh I wasn't in Pomona, I'm watching it on line.
are you staying for the meeting thurs the 21st evening? I will be there then. might show up early. I'm one of the few that are doing some remodel work.
oh I wasn't in Pomona, I'm watching it on line.
are you staying for the meeting thurs the 21st evening? I will be there then. might show up early. I'm one of the few that are doing some remodel work.
Ahhh OK, yeah I'll probably run trains, go eat, and then back for the meeting since I'm the newest member and have yet to attend a meeting.
I will see you then.
Glad to see they chained it down, hate to see it roll away. Or were they afraid someone would steal it?
I would have never thought we would see one of these restored.
Jamie
That'd be the first theory--the UP crew says it rolls real easily. Just tug on it with the tractor and 4014 does the rest
---PCJ
Oh yeah, you could see that...they give her a tug and roll she did.
Meanwhile, 3985 is waiting for her 15 year inspection.....
Meh the 3985 is yesterdays news, the Big Boy has more all around awesomeness
It may be "yesterdays news" to YOU, but to some of us, not to mention hundreds of thousands of fans world wide, the loss of UP 3985 will NOT be forgotten.
LET HIM HAVE IT!!! 3985 is a NATIONAL TREASURE as much as 4014.
That she is.
That'd be the first theory--the UP crew says it rolls real easily. Just tug on it with the tractor and 4014 does the rest
---PCJ
Getting it to roll is the easy part. Stopping it from rolling is where it gets a little tricky.
Rusty
Guess 3985 is a "Challenged" locomotive?
Nwer challenge: What is going to happen to the BB if they cannot successfully convert her to oil burning?
Nwer challenge: What is going to happen to the BB if they cannot successfully convert her to oil burning?
The Challenger was "successfully" converted to oil burning, so how difficult could it be to convert the 4014? The UP Historical society have all the drawings for how the 4005 was converted to oil burning.
One cannot just go to the store and get steam loco parts.
that is what machine shops are for.
I could use the cop-out and say that the excessive fuel consumption is what made the oil conversion a failure.
Instead, I'll just say I stand corrected.
Rusty
Now that this is settled, How long do you think it will take to hop across the parking lot? One, two weeks?
Now that this is settled, How long do you think it will take to hope across the parking lot? One, two weeks?
based on watching the two days live feed was available it will make to the metro link line in the time it takes to do it safely.
How long do you think it will take to hope across the parking lot? One, two weeks?
So why is "hope" involved? I don't think the UP folks will simply "hope" it makes it across the parking lot.
Anyway, I just got this "gut feeling" that when they get the BB into the shops, they are going to find something that is going to be to be repaired or modified which was not planned for. This will take either extra time and/or money to fix. One cannot just go to s and get steam loco parts.
I would plan on there being surprises, I would be surprised if there weren't any.
Now that this is settled, How long do you think it will take to hope across the parking lot? One, two weeks?
Yes
Great coverage and stills. Thanks for sharing.
did anyone make it out there today?
Saw Doug's photo by the 4014 with his 4014....pretty cool.
How long do you think it will take to hope across the parking lot? One, two weeks?
So why is "hope" involved? I don't think the UP folks will simply "hope" it makes it across the parking lot.
I'm sure he meant "hop"
I'm sure that once it's converted to oil there will be no problems, as the UP seems to always send a diesel out with the steam engines to help with DB and fuel mileage.
Not to mention the UP passenger set is only about 15 or so cars, plus a couple canteens.. probably what, 2000 tons or less?
Yeah I meant Hop, don't know where the hope came from, maybe hoping we would get back on track with this thread.
I'm sure that once it's converted to oil there will be no problems, as the UP seems to always send a diesel out with the steam engines to help with DB and fuel mileage.
Not to mention the UP passenger set is only about 15 or so cars, plus a couple canteens.. probably what, 2000 tons or less?
Actually it is a bit more difficult to fire the big machines, i.e. 3985, when they are NOT worked sufficiently hard enough to maintain a good exhaust with a resulting draft for the fire. Prior to 2011, many UP executive train sets behind either 844 or 3985 exceeded 15 passenger cars. The Denver Post Cheyenne Frontier Days Special has historically been over 20 plus cars, which makes the 844 AND MUed the DDA40X work to full throttle capacity in order to maintain the track speed and tight schedule.
I noticed in the LA Times report they mentioned that the Big Boy is going to be pulled by the diesel numbered 4014 (I still think they should use the Heritage locos)
In the past the UP renumbered the 844 to the 8444 to avoid the diesel that used the same number, are they going to have a problem these days having two engines with the same cab number?
In the past the UP renumbered the 844 to the 8444 to avoid the diesel that used the same number, are they going to have a problem these days having two engines with the same cab number?
Not for at least four more years. At that time, I would suspect that the diesel #4014 will be renumbered.
In the past the UP renumbered the 844 to the 8444 to avoid the diesel that used the same number, are they going to have a problem these days having two engines with the same cab number?
Not for at least four more years. At that time, I would suspect that the diesel #4014 will be renumbered.
Based on seniority, the Big Boy will have no problem pulling rank.
I am sure when the time comes the diesel will be searching for a new number.
Also the 4014 was moved another 3-400ft since Thursday, so moving ever closer to the main.
When this starts moving on the mainline, do you think they will borrow a Hollywood smoke generator & put in the stack?
The 4014 was moved another 500' feet yesterday for those staying tuned.
Sorry if this has been asked/answered, I am under the impression it being towed tender first, will it be turned before it heads east on the mainline out of Colton?
Sorry if this has been asked/answered, I am under the impression it being towed tender first, will it be turned before it heads east on the mainline out of Colton?
Most likely, if it doesn't wind up being turned in the process of getting to Colton Diesel Shop.
Has any video been posted of the 4014 moving on the panel track, or of moving the panels?
Has any video been posted of the 4014 moving o the panel track?
I'm not sure, but then I didn't "search" Youtube to check. The Trains Magazine website had/has a "live webcam" showing the movements done previously, but then it was sort of like watching paint dry anyway!
Somewhere I have pictures I took of the 844 being towed home from Sacramento in 1999. I suspect the 4014 will be looking about the same. I will post them if I can find them. Might help people to know what to expect, it's not going to be very photogenic except from a historical perspective.
Sorry if this has been asked/answered, I am under the impression it being towed tender first, will it be turned before it heads east on the mainline out of Colton?
Most likely, if it doesn't wind up being turned in the process of getting to Colton Diesel Shop.
If you look at the area on Google maps, there is room for them to curve to the west as they meet the Metrolink tracks. This would leave 4014 facing east (forward) toward Colton.
It is the worlds largest snail. But in UP's defense, they have to be meticulous in shimming the panel track across the uneven parking lot.
Has a Big Boy ever run on the Tehachapi loop?
Has a Big Boy ever run on the Tehachapi loop?
No.
Has any video been posted of the 4014 moving on the panel track, or of moving the panels?
Sure has.
That area of the parking lot is pretty flat, as they get closer to the drag strip area it gets really bumpy, should make for some interesting videos.
Yeah it looks like it gets really bumpy out at that end of the lot...they are gonna have the work cut out for them down there...and a ton of shims.
I was wondering , when the Big Boys were sent to their various locations, did any (or all) of them go under power? For the diesels of the era it must have been a real chore to more that much dead weight.
Any pics of them being towed?
Well the 4014 was towed to Pomona.....go here and scroll down about half way or alittle more and there is a photo of it. Just along for the ride over Cajon.
I was wondering , when the Big Boys were sent to their various locations, did any (or all) of them go under power? For the diesels of the era it must have been a real chore to more that much dead weight.
Any pics of them being towed?
You understimate the diesels of the era. A Big Boy dead-in-train is just another freight car (or several) as far as the locomotives are concerned.
Rusty
Somewhere, I believe, there are photo op pictures of the 4012 move on a PA viaduct
If you go to www.rrpicturearchives.net and type in big boy move in search, it will display several pictures of the 4012 move from Vermont. Boston and Maine motive power repainted in the Guilford colors are utilized
Here is a photo of the 4012 in tow on the Tunkhannock Viaduct.
And with Boston & Maine boxcars in tow, nice.
Here is a photo of the 4012 in tow on the Tunkhannock Viaduct.
That's a great photo. Being a "bridge troll" I love that viaduct, too.
The steam crew is making great progress as they are down by the beginning of the drag strip. I am wondering how they will negotiate the Metrolink platform that is right there on the eastern side, seems like an awfully tight radius there either way. It's going to be interesting to watch.
Another more complete video for the initial move, for some reason I can insert it here but just click on the link.
I'm guessing with Thanksgiving next week, they will rap up work this week and go home for the holiday?
I'm guessing so. The move on to Metrolink is not going to be until December and they have the 4014 down by the beginning of the drag strip. Here's a photo I found.
They will go home for Thanksgiving, a well deserved rest. They have been working 7 days a week for many weeks. They are a great group to work with. Upon their return they will continue with the movement and prep of 4014 to get onto the MetroLink track.
I hope they have good security for the locomotive over the holiday.
Yes they have very good security. In addition to Fairplex security, they have the Union Pacific Police with the 4014 at all times. There is also a fence around it.
Yes they have very good security. In addition to Fairplex security, they have the Union Pacific Police with the 4014 at all times. There is also a fence around it.
That's good to hear, being at the north end of the complex alone, the security is definitely needed.
chain in the lower right corner is cool!
Yeah that and the wedges will hold him still.
I'm guessing so. The move on to Metrolink is not going to be until December and they have the 4014 down by the beginning of the drag strip. Here's a photo I found.
chain in the lower right corner is cool!
Afraid they might come back in the morning, find the wheels gone and the loco sitting on concrete blocks?
Rusty
The 4014 is now at the northern most end of the fairgrounds folks.
The 4014 is being positioned to be ready for the move on to Metrolink which is expected to be in December.
A scenario such as this would make for an interesting diorama for someone that primarily does modern modeling but needed a good excuse to have their favorite old steam engine sitting on the layout somewhere. Or even someone doing the 50's or 60's having an engine installed in a park or something.
When #4012 came to Scranton to live, everyone was very concerned with her weight on the track and several small bridges in route. But she came without much problems and sits near the Ticket building to Steamtown. Quite the machine. They are worth the effort to see one up close and personal.
Glenn
Indeed they are. I saw the 4014 out in Pomona years back never thinking it would be restored...and here we are. Amazing.
The 4014 has completed it's journey across the parking lot and is now by the fence that separates the fair grounds from Metro links tracks. He is now sitting at the end of this panel track by the bushes.
Is there route info on the trip from the Metrolink tracks (north of the I-10) to the UP tracks (just south of the I-10.) It looks to me like they will have to go to the interchange next to the BNSF yards in San Berdoo, then turn and go south and then west to get to the UP yard in Colton.
I can just imaging the look on a few commuters faces as the 4014 passes through their stations. Then again when it comes through Utah it will be running parallel to our commuter rail track as well. It will be a sight
Is there route info on the trip from the Metrolink tracks (north of the I-10) to the UP tracks (just south of the I-10.) It looks to me like they will have to go to the interchange next to the BNSF yards in San Berdoo, then turn and go south and then west to get to the UP yard in Colton.
Bob, here is the route in a nutshell. They will enter Metrolink at Fairplex and go West through San Dimas, Covina, Baldwin Park and connect to the U.P.(former SP)Alhambra line at Bassett (just East of the 605 Fwy). From there it will go East to West Colton passing through City of Industry, Pomona, Montclair, Ontario, Guasti near Ontario Airport, Kaiser Yard and arrive at West Colton. They will not use the former Santa Fe 2nd district (now Metrolink) between Fairplex and San Bernardino. This was never in the plan from the beginning.
Ray
LOL..I don't know...wonder if you can fire that baby on Nitro-methane.
CWEX: sure if they have lots and lots of Castrol castor oil.
CWEX: sure if they have lots and lots of Castrol castor oil.
LOL...
A nice article. They really got the 4014 in to position quickly down at the north end of the fair grounds. Looks like December 22 is the date for the move on to Metro link.
I guess I know where I'm going to be on 12/22.
For the $$$$ to get 4014 to METROLink line, UP could have the 3985 running and have her 15 year inspection. An out side the UP firm is handling the move, and the restore on the BB. Somebody has stated an another threat a third party is paying for all this. I wonder who has the deep pockets to do this if the story is true?
The UP is handling the move. If someone else is in fact paying the bills then so be it. As for the 3985....time will tell the story.
For the $$$$ to get 4014 to METROLink line, UP could have the 3985 running and have her 15 year inspection. An out side the UP firm is handling the move, and the restore on the BB. Somebody has stated an another threat a third party is paying for all this. I wonder who has the deep pockets to do this if the story is true?
I can't possibly know. However, If I were to get good odds. I would bet a large sum on Jay Leno.
i think it would be great if the union pacific would get their one steam engine that they never retired to pull it back. wouldn't the 844 pulling it back be a really nice sight?
The UP Steam Crew has completed all of the work needed to get the 4014 ready to move and all of the work to move the 4014 to its current position. The UP Steam Crew will continure to move the engine and will complete all of the work to restore the 4014.
i think it would be great if the union pacific would get their one steam engine that they never retired to pull it back. wouldn't the 844 pulling it back be a really nice sight?
In the winter??? You must be dreaming.
The UP Steam Crew will continure to move the engine and will complete all of the work to restore the 4014.
I/m pretty sure that an outside specialized contractor will be doing, at the very least, the complete boiler overhaul.
I believe I read on this forum, or possibly T.O. that the bigboy was going to winter at the Colton shops for some preliminary work and wouldn't be headed east across the Cajon until spring (when the weather is more favorable.)
The 4014 will get to Cheyenne when it gets there...no need to rush this. Let em' get it there safely and we can all enjoy the journey.
I believe I read on this forum, or possibly T.O. that the bigboy was going to winter at the Colton shops for some preliminary work and wouldn't be headed east across the Cajon until spring (when the weather is more favorable.)
Don't think so. They WILL need to take 4014 to the Colton Diesel Shop in order to put he over a pit and service the driver axle roller bearings. After that, 4014 will proceed north to Ogden, then east to Cheyenne, probably arrivin Cheyenne in late January or early February.
The axle roller bearings have already been drained, flushed, and refilled wtih new oil at the RailGiants Museum.
The axle roller bearings have already been drained, flushed, and refilled wtih new oil at the RailGiants Museum.
It is my understanding, based on everything that has been posted on TO and other sites, that in order to service the driver axle roller bearings, SAFELY, the locomotive should be over a pit. All the other roller bearings on the trailing truck, and tender, are external and have indeed already been serviced while 4014 was still at the museum site.
The axle roller bearings were serviced when 4014 was put onto the panel track.
I just don't see how they could do a proper job of servicing the driver bearings on panel track. Maybe a "good enough" job to move it slowly a few miles to a pit where they can do a proper job, but more than that? How could there be enough room to climb through the frame and service them for the move to Wyoming?
No they don't. I have never seen a roller bearing equipped steam locomotive that requires the "dropping of drivers" simply to service the inside roller bearing boxes.
No they don't. I have never seen a roller bearing equipped steam locomotive that requires the "dropping of drivers" simply to service the inside roller bearing boxes.
Does it matter where it is done, if it is done, or about to be done, as long as it is done before the big haul, is all that probably matters to those in control of the work.
No they don't. I have never seen a roller bearing equipped steam locomotive that requires the "dropping of drivers" simply to service the inside roller bearing boxes.
My mistake, I thought I heard Ed say something in one of the videos they have put out. Thanks for clarifying that.
Does it matter where it is done, if it is done, or about to be done, as long as it is done before the big haul, is all that probably matters to those in control of the work.
Nope it doesn't matter.
one of the official UP videos said they will be doing anything they could not get to at Pomona at Colton.
Does it matter where it is done, if it is done, or about to be done, as long as it is done before the big haul, is all that probably matters to those in control of the work.
Sometimes it does matter to the poor person that is actually doing the work, while laying on his back on the ground/ties! Servicing driver axle bearings, no matter whether roller or plain bearings, is always best accomplished over a pit.
Does it matter where it is done, if it is done, or about to be done, as long as it is done before the big haul, is all that probably matters to those in control of the work.
Sometimes it does matter to the poor person that is actually doing the work, while laying on his back on the ground/ties! Servicing driver axle bearings, no matter whether roller or plain bearings, is always best accomplished over a pit.
The earlier discussion wasn't debating about the poor individual having to do the task but if it had been done or not and for whatever reason a few people seemed quite concerned about it, not sure why? The short distance it has to go is not likely to result in any further deterioration of the bearings before the oil is changed before its longer haul.
While I am here I am intrigued to know who the so called third party is that seems to be behind the restoration, or is this a case of smoke and mirrors to deflect the real identity?
Just to be clear on the subject, the bearings have been drained and flushed at the RailGiants Museum before the move. They will again be drained and flushed at Colton yard, and then several move time during the "long haul". I do agree that it was not comfortable for the UP Steam Crew to perform this task without a pit. But they did it because it needed to be done before 4014 moved across the parking lot.
Just to be clear on the subject, the bearings have been drained and flushed at the RailGiants Museum before the move. They will again be drained and flushed at Colton yard, and then several move time during the "long haul".
Why "drained & flushed several more times" during the trip to Cheyenne? Even during the regular service days, the roller bearings were NOT "drained & flushed" all that often, and they were under far greater loads back then. I bet the steam crew doesn't "drain & flush" the roller bearings on 844 during an entire multi-week/month trip.
Well if they've been serviced already than hey that's great....I do remember that they had several drums out there.
I spoke to some Cheyenne visitors to our Rocky Mountain Toy Train Show yesterday.
It looks like 4014 will sit next to the light rail track until late December. Apparently they have to wait for the SD40 that they traded to the museum to come out of the paint shop before they cut into the light rail line. They don't want to cut into the light rail line twice.
Latest video from the UP.
any word?
is this the weekend of the move to live metro tracks?
That's been the word...Sunday the 22nd
That's been the word...Sunday the 22nd
The latest info I saw posted on Train Orders, apparently from the Trains Magazine NewsWire was, not until late January.
That's been the word...Sunday the 22nd
The latest info I saw posted on Train Orders, apparently from the Trains Magazine NewsWire was, not until late January.
I can confirm that as I just read it on the news wire.
Here's the latest UP video on the 4014.
Guess who arrived in Pomona today?
that's right the UP steam team is back in Pomona according to trains magazine.
Back in the roundhouse, 3985 is waitng for them!
Guess who arrived in Pomona today?
that's right the UP steam team is back in Pomona according to trains magazine.
Yawn...
But does anyone have the word on when the move onto the Metrolink tracks will be? Last word was Dec 22nd which came and went. After all the posts here and other places, things have been strangely silent. Since the trade-out diesel and caboose are here, the move could be very soon.
Just posted on TrainOrders:
"LA METRO (NOT Metrolink) has just announced that UP 4014 will be moved from the LA Fairgrounds via Metrolink on Sunday January 26th! The move will be from the LA Fairgrounds to at least the Covina Metrolink station for an official public/media viewing event" Starting time not given.
Every railfan (and foamer) within 500 miles is going to converge on Pomona.
Excellent, thank you for the information. This will be a BIG event for sure.
from UP
Guess who arrived in Pomona today?
that's right the UP steam team is back in Pomona according to trains magazine.
Yawn...
some of us are not old enough to have seen steam on the rails and are excited.
some of us are not old enough to have seen steam on the rails and are excited.
Well, it still really isn't "steam on the rails" YET!!!
Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex. People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.
Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985. that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.
Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex. People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.
Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985. that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.
Steve Lee was asked that very question. His answer is that a BB could only operate only on trackage in WY and UT. That was then. But 3985 can go to a lot more places than a BB.
BTW, does anybody know where a BB can go on the UP today under steam?
bigdodgetrain, Thanks for posting the video!!!!
According to Metrolink's Facebook page, 4014 will be stopped at the Covina Metrolink station for public viewing between 7:00am and 8:00am on January 26th. I'm planning to drive along Arrow Highway on the way home from the club the night before to see what they're up to.
Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex. People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.
Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985. that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.
I keep on hearing people saying the bigboy was the biggest steam loco ever made.at 132..?? its the heaviest for sure..the allegheny had the most HP..As for length is PRR S1 at 140 feet and with 84"big driving wheels..
The Allegheny had 7000 boiler hp but sorry not the tractive effort. That is what pulls trains not boiler hp. The dm& ir had 140,000 lbs pulling power and big boy had 135,000 but the Allegheny had a little over 100,000 and was so hard on track it went a wooping 20 mph to keep track damage to a minimum. The c&0 also sued lima for lying about weight on drivers. It was not a success. It is not even a good comparison for the big boy. Lets compare successful engines. As Gene Huddleston say in his book on the 2-6-6-6 after all the information was out "you decide if the c&0 got its moneys worth out of the engine. Their 2-10-4 was their superior engine and it is compared in the same book.
There were no other 4-8-8-4 engines made so big boy wins there.
Meh........ my money would be on a y6b with its modest 170,000lbs of tractive effort.... but thats for another thread.
Meh........ my money would be on a y6b with its modest 170,000lbs of tractive effort.... but thats for another thread.
You got that right!
It only gets to 163,000 and that is the simple mode and could not supply enough steam to go very fast. Big boy is the only 4-8-8-4 and that is the biggest wheel arrangement of a steamer that could operate at 70 mph y6b maybe but in compound mode only and then tractive effort is way down.
It only gets to 163,000 and that is the simple mode and could not supply enough steam to go very fast. Big boy is the only 4-8-8-4 and that is the biggest wheel arrangement of a steamer that could operate at 70 mph y6b maybe but in compound mode only and then tractive effort is way down.
Only?...Mmmhmm.
UP's 4-8-8-4's would produce higher speeds, and could develop higher HP at higher speeds but they didn't have the starting drawbar pull of a 2100. The thing to remember is that these Y's had boilers the size of a big 4-8-4, and with compound operation it allowed them to squeeze that kind of performance out of it. The 4000's had a humongous boiler with an appetite to match. The higher speed is great but you need to start the train first.
The real point is that each was designed to do a specific job for it's respective road and both performed admirably in that capacity.
The Allegheny had 7000 boiler hp but sorry not the tractive effort. That is what pulls trains not boiler hp
Hold on just a minute there, Bucko. All tractive effort does is start the train. The infamous Erie Triplex had monstrous amounts of tractive effort, but didn't have enough HORSEPOWER roll the train faster than about 10 mph or it would run out of steam.
It is HORSEPOWER that gets you over the road at speed. And the Lima-Built C&O Allegheny produced 7,498 DRAWBAR HORSEPOWER, far more than the Big Boy. That's REAL Horsepower, at the coupler, as measured by a dynamometer car behind the tender, not a calculated number.
hello OGR Webmaster and guys...........
It would be even LESS than 7,498 drawbar horsepower if measured BEHIND the tender coupler thus guessing about 7,000 H.P. @ tender coupler. Its the tender coupler that is coupled to the freight cars behind so the horsepower should be measured there and could be called "net drawbar horsepower"
the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678
Tiffany
hello OGR Webmaster and guys...........
It would be even LESS than 7,498 drawbar horsepower if measured BEHIND the tender coupler thus guessing about 7,000 H.P. @ tender coupler. Its the tender coupler that is coupled to the freight cars behind so the horsepower should be measured there and could be called "net drawbar horsepower"
the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678
Tiffany
id thought id read some where its was 8000hp? other saying 6200 at the draw bar.. the PRR Q2 were 7987hp..measurements on the S1 and bigboy..bigboy..11'wide and 16' 2 1/2"high and 132'long...S1 10'7"wide and 16' 6"high and 140' 2 1/4"..Q2 11'4"wide and 16'5.5"high and 124 long.....If anyone can fill in the C&O alleghenys measurments..I couldnt find them..as for the largest steam loco ever built is the S1,but for production built bigboy is..model train mag there a post debaiting bigboy vs the allegheny..http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/p/34200/436684.aspx
We apparently have a few folks that have been doing some "book learning", with no understanding of the REAL steam locomotive work environment, nor the physics involved.
1) The famous C&O H-8 was definitely NOT "unsuccessful"! Maybe the C&O never properly utilized the Lima Super Power 2-6-6-6 design to their fullest capabilities, instead of "just hauling coal".
2) The various eastern coal roads, i.e. C&O, B&O, and N&W for example, all had EXCELLENT supplies of VERY HIGH BTU coal as fuel. Thus their furnace systems were properly designed FOR THAT FUEL! By comparison, the "poor Union Pacific" was relegated to burning southern Wyoming Hanna Coal, and thus need MUCH larger fireboxes and furnace system designs, on order to burn lower BTU coal. Thus, the 4000 class locomotives truly excelled at their DESIGNED service assignments, while burning that southern Wyoming fuel. As another comparison, look what the poor Northern Pacific had to burn, i.e. Montana Lignite!
3) Trying to compare various wheel arrangements, total locomotive weights, and total locomotive lengths add nothing to a discussion of individual steam locomotive performance.
....... which brings us back to the y6b which could pull just as well albeit at lower speeds but it weighed 100,000 lbs less than the allegheny and bigboy....
I'm gonna pop some popcorn now.
....... which brings us back to the y6b which could pull just as well albeit at lower speeds but it weighed 100,000 lbs less than the allegheny and bigboy....
I'm gonna pop some popcorn now.
with extra butter of course !!!
the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678
Tiffany
Like ED Dickens said the rebirth of the big boy is like a zoo resurrecting the T Rex. People will follow this from all over the world to see the biggest steam engine ever made.
Too bad Steve Lee didn't do this instead of 3985. that engine is so of anti climatic now with a big boy on the horizion.
3985 is far from anti climatic. The Challengers are the steam engine that represents UP's peak of the steam age better then any other engine. The Big Boys were only used in Utah and Wyoming pretty much. Challengers were used system wide. The restoration of 3985 also was not really started by Lee is was started by a group of employees before Lee was manager of the historical fleet. There are 6-7 Big Boys left only 2 Challengers. Personally I think the 3985 is still the better choice. Big Boy makes a nice wow factor but in the end I bet they use it rarely. I think its much sadder 3985 gets neglected since the new manager came around.
This is the write up from Union Pacific's Community Ties about the move.
Thanks for the update. The 26th is right around the corner.
I hope those of you going will post pictures of this great event. Wish I could see it firsthand.
I hope those of you going will post pictures of this great event. Wish I could see it firsthand.
Those doing photography will need to be very experienced at NIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY, since this whole move should be COMPLETED by sunrise on Sunday morning, the 26th.
I have seen this quote "There are several crews (in Colton) that have had experience when steam was the primary mode that powered these trains," said Rod Doerr, superintendent - Los Angeles Service Unit. "
Were they 10 years old when UP hired them?
Those doing photography will need to be very experienced at NIGHT PHOTOGRAPHY, since this whole move should be COMPLETED by sunrise on Sunday morning, the 26th.
Night Photo.. got it covered (And these were even shot on film)
I have seen this quote "There are several crews (in Colton) that have had experience when steam was the primary mode that powered these trains," said Rod Doerr, superintendent - Los Angeles Service Unit. "
Were they 10 years old when UP hired them?
Now there is a manager that has been smoking the good stuff!
Lets do the math on that statement:
1) The last steam operations on the UP were out of Cheyenne, WY in something like 1958? So the Los Angeles area would have been out of main line steam locomotives in, what no later than 1956/1957?
2) A "steam qualified" promoted Engineer, should have been roughly in his 40s, during the mid 1950s, probably able to hold an Extra Board spot. That would make is age TODAY, at least 995 to 98 YEARS OLD!!! Even allowing for the possibility that the man was in his 30s, during the mid-1950s, would still put him well past 80 YEARS OLD today!
3) Say the man was a Fireman in the mid-1950s, and he was in his 20s. That would STILL make him well past 70 YEARS OLD today!
Now, does that Superintendent honestly believe that the Union Pacific STILL has 70+ to 80+, to 90+ year old men employed? What with the Railroad Retirement policy change, some 8 to 10 years ago, allowing FULL retirement benefits at 60 years of age, with 30+ years of service, why would ANY man well over 70 years old STILL BE WORKING (even if the railroad allowed it)?
Ah, but one of the UP's auxiliary tenders carries water drawn from the fountain of youth don'tchaknow...
Rusty
I guess the manager in LA was breathing too much of the polluted air in the Basin!
I guess the manager in LA was breathing too much of the polluted air in the Basin!
Must have been a long time ago that you were in the LA Basin, as the last few years that I have been there the "pollution" sure wasn't THAT bad.
I have seen this quote "There are several crews (in Colton) that have had experience when steam was the primary mode that powered these trains," said Rod Doerr, superintendent - Los Angeles Service Unit. "
Were they 10 years old when UP hired them?
I thought the same thing when I read the article. There's no way that could happen....By the way, I love the first picture of 844.
HOTWATER: I'm with you: My first thought was "how old would those guys be now?" The math wasn't adding up!
I am curious, how does any RR find mechanics (with steam engine knowledge) and engineers to operate any steam engine? I watched a clip on youtube of 3985's engineer and was amazed. He made it look easy! Steam engines haven't been used forever, so where /how do they train people?
Anyway, look forward to the pictures!
HOTWATER: I'm with you: My first thought was "how old would those guys be now?" The math wasn't adding up!
I am curious, how does any RR find mechanics (with steam engine knowledge) and engineers to operate any steam engine? I watched a clip on youtube of 3985's engineer and was amazed. He made it look easy! Steam engines haven't been used forever, so where /how do they train people?
Anyway, look forward to the pictures!
The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.
The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.
Sorry, but Navy steam boiler operations are not even remotely close to a steam locomotive. Navy boilers really aren't that much different than stationary boilers in electrical power plants, since the load doesn't vary all that much, plus they are usually very high pressure water tube boilers. Steam locomotives have fire tube boilers in order to withstand the numerous, and drastic loading changes.
Were they 10 years old when UP hired them?
I know right?...How ridiculous of a statement is that for the UP to make...
The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.
Sorry, but Navy steam boiler operations are not even remotely close to a steam locomotive. Navy boilers really aren't that much different than stationary boilers in electrical power plants, since the load doesn't vary all that much, plus they are usually very high pressure water tube boilers. Steam locomotives have fire tube boilers in order to withstand the numerous, and drastic loading changes.
Better then nothing. There are alot of x navy guys working for UP. The training navy engineers get dose fit in with the railroad.
The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.
Sorry, but Navy steam boiler operations are not even remotely close to a steam locomotive. Navy boilers really aren't that much different than stationary boilers in electrical power plants, since the load doesn't vary all that much, plus they are usually very high pressure water tube boilers. Steam locomotives have fire tube boilers in order to withstand the numerous, and drastic loading changes.
Better then nothing. There are alot of x navy guys working for UP. The training navy engineers get dose fit in with the railroad.
You may be right, but how many are there on the Steam Crew?
The Navy still runs some steam ships. That would be a source of boiler trained young people.
Sorry, but Navy steam boiler operations are not even remotely close to a steam locomotive. Navy boilers really aren't that much different than stationary boilers in electrical power plants, since the load doesn't vary all that much, plus they are usually very high pressure water tube boilers. Steam locomotives have fire tube boilers in order to withstand the numerous, and drastic loading changes.
Better then nothing. There are alot of x navy guys working for UP. The training navy engineers get dose fit in with the railroad.
You may be right, but how many are there on the Steam Crew?
Not enough. The current steam crew only seems to have big goals. Hope what there doing ends up being a good thing. I personally would have preferd they just kept the equipment they have maintained. I'm looking forward to seeing the Big boy and all but I like 3985 just fine.
In reality, the current manager can not maintain what he already had, i.e. the 3985 AND 844, let alone rebuild/overhaul the 4014! Anyone taking any bets that the 844 will NOT operate during 2014?
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