Here is the latest RRTrack Plan which includes scenery
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Can you include the RRTrack file? Looks like you have a reach greater than 6 feet to the rear of the coal mine area unless there is a walkway or pop-up back there.
Steve
Steve
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
Can you include the RRTrack file? Looks like you have a reach greater than 6 feet to the rear of the coal mine area unless there is a walkway or pop-up back there.
Steve
Thanks Steve for taking time to review and respond. Appreciate it.
Would be a little hard and can probably add the pop-up. Any ideas for Tinplate City? Here is the RRTrack plan. I think I have added subway ("L" Train) on far right since I posted the .jpg last night.
By the way: Originally from Muncie, Ball State Grad, moved to Florida to work for Disney 21 yrs ago. Retired and enjoying life.
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Files (1)
Do you have some Dept 56 or Thomas Kincaid buildings? We have a bunch of Thomas Kincaid Christmas Village buildings that I'm putting on my upper level on the KnobKnee-Boredom RR (see my thread). Are you going to run a trolley on the Super Streets? I started over and so far have not put my trolley line back in the Christmas village but may have to squeeze it in.
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
Wow Steve, 20 x 50 ! I wish I had that kind of room. You didn't state if you had an interest in a particular RR or area you are going to model so I'll just point some things out from a general operations perspective. The first thing I noticed was the placement of the Turn-table. Though I agree having access to both sides of a feature like that is a plus,It seems to serve no purpose where it is. I'd say a TT needs to be connected to a railyard of some sort or a passenger station. If it were me, I'd strive to connect it to the end of a railyard and a engine facility. Try to make it a FUNCTIONAL part of the layout and not just a neat feature.
I also noticed you run track parallel with the rooms walls a great deal and you are very close to them as well. Two things I would suggest you avoid as much as possible.I also don't see why with such a large room you should need to resort to the "Bent Dog-bone" in any way shape or form. If you noticed the Cherry Valley layout doesn't employ it at all and for good reason. I have seen the Cherry Valley and it has a 12' min dia for its track. That enables them to be "more" prototypical in the way the layout looks and functions.BTW for tose of you who havent seen the Cherrey Valley layout I suggest doing so if you can,Its a great 2-rail scale layout!
Steve I don't mean to pick these are just suggestions take-em or leave-em.
Gizzmo ON the waterfront
I also noticed you run track parallel with the rooms walls a great deal and you are very close to them as well. Two things I would suggest you avoid as much as possible.I also don't see why with such a large room you should need to resort to the "Bent Dog-bone" in any way shape or form. If you noticed the Cherry Valley layout doesn't employ it at all and for good reason. I have seen the Cherry Valley and it has a 12' min dia for its track. That enables them to be "more" prototypical in the way the layout looks and functions.BTW for tose of you who havent seen the Cherrey Valley layout I suggest doing so if you can,Its a great 2-rail scale layout!
Steve I don't mean to pick these are just suggestions take-em or leave-em.
Gizzmo ON the waterfront
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
Do you have some Dept 56 or Thomas Kincaid buildings? We have a bunch of Thomas Kincaid Christmas Village buildings that I'm putting on my upper level on the KnobKnee-Boredom RR (see my thread). Are you going to run a trolley on the Super Streets? I started over and so far have not put my trolley line back in the Christmas village but may have to squeeze it in.
I'm not a tinplate guy so no help there. I run all scale Diesel from 1940 - 1965.
I lived and worked in Connersville in the late 60's but am from New Albany.
Steve
Yes, I have several Dept 56 buildings and using them in the SW corner of layout along with the SuperStreets or equivalent. Will be adding a trolley just not sure where yet. Sorry to have mislead by calling the one area Tinplate City. My grandson (8) loves two types of trains, Steamers and Tinplates. Not real fond of Diesels. So, I put glass shelves around ceiling (9') and have Standard Gauge track running a loop with one simple passing track in front of station. In addition the grandson wanted the MTH Blue Streak and Christmas Train both tinplate O gauge. I should have made it clearer but I don't know what to do yet in Tinplate City, but it won't be all tinplate stuff, if any.
I just now saw your posting involving your layout. It appears like you are having many of the same issues I have had over the last year. It can be very frustrating at times. Since I am not close to a train group I haven't had the opportunity to participate or even watch an operational session. As one member suggested, he has learned much from doing so. I really like your island approach, very similar to my major yard. This provides plenty of room for aisle and accessibility. I know I will need one or two pop ups when I finally determine where the mountains will be. Trying to get the track work / operational functionality completed first. Are you pretty comfortable with you final posting of your layout?
I'll have to admit, I do have some tinplate operating accessories planned for the layout! My grandchildren love pushing the buttons! Your tinplate area might be a good place for a Circus.
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
quote:Originally posted by KnobKnee:
I'll have to admit, I do have some tinplate operating accessories planned for the layout! My grandchildren love pushing the buttons! Your tinplate area might be a good place for a Circus.
I am more comfortable now with this layout than any I've designed in the past year and a half. But, it's a radical departure for me so I'm hoping to get more input from those wiser than I before I start laying track.
Steve
Thats good, because at the end of the day you are the one that has to be happy with it. But I, like you, are trying to get the best advise and ideas as possible before starting. I have 26 sheets of 3/4 cabinet grade birch and I don't know how many 1x2, 1x4's, and 2x3's. I have over $8K of track, including 62 switches just waiting for a layout design to be completed.
Simple question. Looking at my layout does it appear to be too busy with track? It seems to me like plenty of room for scenery, but having never done a large layout, not sure. Did you simplify track as you moved to the layout design you have now?
By the way you can see room with glass shelves and Standard Gauge track here:
http://ogaugerr.infopop.cc/eve...11056622/m/678109634
GSN1
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
Keep the look you desire in mind as you think about what you want scenically and operationally.
There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
Keep the look you desire in mind as you think about what you want scenically and operationally.There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN1
You made a good choice with ScaleTrax, you should be very happy with the result. There are have been some very helpful tips on the forum about working with ScaleTrax flex and tuning the switches. If you don't already have them, I highly recommend Rich Battista's videos. You might also enjoy following the progress of the Northwest Trunk Lines, a very large Sccaletrax layout being built in the Seattle are by my brother Dave. I have built a few custom switches for the NWTL and have been the dispatcher or Yardmaster at the operating sessions.
I have only taken a quick look at your design but will offer a few thoughts based on that and the previous discussion on this thread.
You are concerned about your layout being too busy. Good for you! If you are thinking that way you are miles ahead of many of us and are unlikely to become a spaghetti chef.
There have been some very good comments here already. I'll second two of them. First, mainlines parallel to the walls are not very scenically interesting. Rich Melvin started a good thread on just that topic. Second, a roundhouse and associated engine service facilities are usually located adjacent to a yard. Rich's thread on switching leads might be good reading too. Right now it looks like your yard lead is quite a bit shorter than your yard tracks. You will foul the yellow mainline if you are switching the yard.
To get a better idea of what you would like and what you need to operate your equipment could you tell us more about your present collection or what equipment you would like to get in the future? What locomotives do you have or do you want to get? What is your freight and passenger car fleet like? How many cars do you have and how big are they? Your yard looks to be large enough for about one hundred 40 foot freight cars OR about sixty 72 foot passenger cars. Is that enough for what you have? Do you want to use your yard as a working yard or is it just on-layout car storage?
You have mentioned operating. On most larger layouts that means running a mix of through freight and passenger trains with local freights serving industries. What industries (or operating accessories) do you want to depict and what type and how many cars will they need? What length passenger and freight trains do you want to run? Picking a maximum typical train length can be used set siding and yard track length. If you have 10 car passenger sets pulled by A-B-A or A-B-B-A E or F units that can be a good length to work with as it allows respectable sized freight trains as well.
Reach in will also be a consideration in some areas of the plan you have now. Thirty inches is a good goal, 36 inches can be OK, especially if you are taller or it is an area with little or simple track where derailments will be infrequent. Duckunders can be useful and not too unfriendly if you have a relatively high track height but they never get easier to use as time passes.
You may want to consider reducing the depth of the benchwork around the perimeter of your layout and having a wider center peninsula with yards and engine facilities including your turntable and roundhouse. This solution works very on the NWTL and lengthens the mainline run while allowing a less busy track plan around the perimeter for an emphasis on the scenery.
You have a great space to work with and it sounds like many of your inclinations are in directions that can lead to realistic operation and long term enjoyment. Keep us posted as your thinking develops. I can guarantee that you will receive plenty of advice, some of which may even prove helpful.
Thank you so much for looking at the layout, I really do respect your time and enjoy your feedback / suggestions. I hope I have addressed your questions detailed enough and look forward to hearing from you.
I am really excited about using ScaleTrax and Rich’s videos were most instrumental in that decision.
I get your point about straight runs along the wall. This is one of the things that bother me about the layout designs that I have worked on. I am not very creative when it comes to avoiding them. Will try to make beneficial changes and repost.
Thanks for directing me to Melvin’s article on switching leads. Easy to understand and makes sense. I will make the adjustments.
Current collection of equipment
Premier:
Great Northern Freight Set – 18 ore car consist
CSX Dash 8
NASA Solid Rocket Carrier Set
R40 Subway Set with extra cars
BNSF Corrugated Auto Carrier 6 car set
Assorted Freight Cars including 6 2 Car Spine Sets 48’
RailKing
4-6-2 PRR K4 Torpedo Steam Loco
4-8-4 Northern Imperial Steam Union Pacific
4-8-4 Imperial GS4 Northern – American Freedom
4-8-4 Imperial GS4 Northern – Southern Pacific
F-3 ABA Diesel Canadian National w/dummy
E-8 AA Southern Pacific w/dummy
Chessie SW9 Switcher (includes calf)
C&O Switcher
NY Transit Q Type Subway + 3 car add on
7-Car set ABS Passenger Pennsylvania
7-Car set ABS Passenger Canadian National
7-Car set ABS Passenger Southern Pacific
7-Car set ABS Passenger American Freedom
Other odds and ends –freight cars
Future: Plans are to stick mostly with Premier, both steamers and diesels. Want to add 18+ car consists of coal cars and 18+ 40’ AAR box cars. Actually a variety of freight cars.
I definitely want a working yard and close to a classification yard.
Industries would include, coal, lumber, fuel storage, general supply warehouses. I want a fairly large passenger station with several tracks leading into / alongside it. I would also like to work in a Christmas Village with Dept 56 buildings, currently I have around 30. Subway / “L” train in the city area. And if possible I would like to work in SuperStreets or equivalent. I am aware that K-Line will be no more.
I will be using DCS and have bought Barry's book. Barry has also been so kind as to help me with the wiring needs. I will be using Y4K tracks in Super Mode.
I am planning on a main height of 41 inches and upper level around 49. But I would be willing to raise the layout even higher if someone suggested it???
Don't forget that you really do need to be able to reach everywhere on the layout, even if it is just to hunt down and capture the dust bunnies. 
gsn1
Is your GN freight set headed up by the R-2 2-8-8-2? If so you are definitely into big steam with the likes of the Big Boy, Yellowstone, and Z-6 challenger. You will need to plan clearances accordingly.
It look like you should plan sidings and yards around 20 car freights. Those will run 240 to 300 inches depending on locomotives and cars.
Start thinking about scenery, particularly water and mountains, and then think about how your railroad will traverse them. That will help break up the parallel to the walls habit.
Is your GN freight set headed up by the R-2 2-8-8-2? If so you are definitely into big steam with the likes of the Big Boy, Yellowstone, and Z-6 challenger. You will need to plan clearances accordingly.
It look like you should plan sidings and yards around 20 car freights. Those will run 240 to 300 inches depending on locomotives and cars.
Start thinking about scenery, particularly water and mountains, and then think about how your railroad will traverse them. That will help break up the parallel to the walls habit.
gsn1,
You should show Ted your other design.
Rich
You should show Ted your other design.
Rich
Sorry, but I had to spend the last couple of days in the Hospital, that Liver thing. I have been thinking about everything that has been said, especially Ted your comments, and started yet another layout. Lots of changes in elevation and lots of slow winding curves. Added a transfer table, kept the turntable, and Rich, doubled or triple the room for your mountains. Has plenty of walk thru space and can reach every area of the layout. Very excited about it and hopefully can post tomorrow. I will also post the layout that Rich referred to. He has been most kind to assist me.
Ok, the first layout is one that I worked on for several weeks and Rich helped me out quite a bit. I still like this plan but was not sure about two major things. First, while their was plenty of access space it was not easy to get to and my health is very suspect. Second, the turntable and yard were up front and when I tried switching the city to up front, it just didn't work too well.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/gn4.jpg
This second file is my latest effort and I would really appreciate it if you could take a look and provide comments.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn4.jpg
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/gn4.jpg
This second file is my latest effort and I would really appreciate it if you could take a look and provide comments.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn4.jpg
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GSN
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
quote:Originally posted by Ted Hikel:
GSN
I hope you are feeling well. I just had a chance to take a quick peek at the jpegs. Rich has you going in a good direction. Your latest concept with aisles and peninsulas will give you and your guests more vantage points from which to watch trains and the opportunity to follow a train without ducking from access hole to access hole.
Transfer tables can help to put a great number of locomotives in a relatively small space. That is why railroads use them at major shops. Are you thinking about modeling a shop complex or just using the transfer table to provide locomotive storage? Ross makes a great transfer table, is that the one you have in mind?
I like the direction you have gone with the yard and roundhouse. You might want to consider reversing the switch ladder on the right end of the yard to give more even track lengths and make use of that question marked space.
Thanks so much Ted, really appreciate your time.
The transfer table was added for Diesel storage, but will work shop complex in (how much room would you recommend?) There is small amount of room North of transfer table and then at far east end of yard a small area. The shop complex would be nice but not essential. I really have not researched any transfer tables. I will take a look at Ross.
I think I understand about the ladder on the right and have made the change. I have also made significant changes to the downtown area, providing lots of industry opportunities and added a area for a Christmas Village (west end of town).
I have lots of grade changes but I really think it would add to the visual effect. On the far North side I envision almost complete mountain coverage. With the trains darting out of mountains to go accross bridges and then winding curves into yet another mountain. I believe that I have room for four different mountain ranges. I am hoping that Rich will like that.
http://www.photos.jcstudiosinc.com/user282/cvrn52.jpg
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GSN
Your changes to the yard are exactly what I was thinking. You now have more car storage for the same number of switches and equal length yard tracks. That will make it easier to make up or break down trains.
Transfer tables are pretty rare. You generally only find them at major locomotive or car shops where a switch ladder would be too complex or eat up too much real estate. Often there are shop buildings on either side of the transfer table. That could work nicely for your locomotive storage needs and depict real world or at least real wold type heavy maintenance facilities. Take a look at this Milwaukee Road shop photo to see one such installation.
Grades can be challenging operationally. Why do the grades exist on your railroad? Is is just for scenic interest? Are the grades there to get your railroad over a mountain pass or get to a timber landing or a mine???????
Do you need helpers to get your trains over the grades???????
This could get fun!
Your changes to the yard are exactly what I was thinking. You now have more car storage for the same number of switches and equal length yard tracks. That will make it easier to make up or break down trains.
Transfer tables are pretty rare. You generally only find them at major locomotive or car shops where a switch ladder would be too complex or eat up too much real estate. Often there are shop buildings on either side of the transfer table. That could work nicely for your locomotive storage needs and depict real world or at least real wold type heavy maintenance facilities. Take a look at this Milwaukee Road shop photo to see one such installation.
Grades can be challenging operationally. Why do the grades exist on your railroad? Is is just for scenic interest? Are the grades there to get your railroad over a mountain pass or get to a timber landing or a mine???????
Do you need helpers to get your trains over the grades???????
This could get fun!
for a round house here is another idea
[IMG]http://fowlerdreamlayout.com/roundhouse%20m27.jpg[/IMG]
using more track and a bit of a run through
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