VisionLine Challengers

Alabama Joe posted:

I started this post because I was pleased to hear Lionel would add the articulated sound.   Again, thanks to Lionel.     This thread was and still is, intended to be positive and informative.     Positive that Lionel is correcting the problem and informative to anyone who may want to send theirs to Lionel.    If you want to whine, start your own thread.         

Lionel intended there vision line to be the gold standard but it is isn't. So if you do not want the constructive feedback being given to the manufacturer about their practices on your thread.  Do not post how great they are for stepping up to fix something that should have never needed to be fixed. They never announced they were really fixing it outright, everyone has had to go out of their way to get it done.

Laidoffsick posted:

Too late to do anything about it, yet they sat in the warehouse for weeks. They were shipped anyway because Lionel knew most people will just accept them as is. As proof right here, many people have just accepted the mistake of screwing up something that had already been done before!

For the record I was talking about Norm’s comment about Lionel being so far behind in model train technology. 

Norm Charbonneau posted:

So...nobody re-phases their articulated drivers anymore? That was always the first thing you did when you got a new one. Is it against the law now?

And it is so easy to do! I did it.to my Big Boys and Cab Forwards, less than a 5 minute job for each.

My challenger arrives Saturday, Do I need to send it back before I open it, is it really serious. how bad is it out of sync. any videos

Laidoffsick posted:

Norm Charbonneau posted:

So...nobody re-phases their articulated drivers anymore? That was always the first thing you did when you got a new one. Is it against the law now?

And it is so easy to do! I did it.to my Big Boys and Cab Forwards, less than a 5 minute job for each.

Like either you or Norm have really nice layouts with large, scale steam......and you actually know what you're talking about!!!  

Speaking of which, with Norm's permission and Gun Runner's blessing, attached is a link to one of my favorite videos that Norm has posted.  Notice the sound and position of the drivers:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-S3KgDBXEOM&t=54s

Norm:  if you don't want this link posted, just let me know.

turbine posted:

My challenger arrives Saturday, Do I need to send it back before I open it, is it really serious. how bad is it out of sync. any videos

The real issue is,,,,,,,,,,it is NOT "out of sync"!

Very impressive videos - thanks!

Harold

Well, I don't even unbox them anymore.  I just call for the RA. And then send them back 

🤣🤣🤣 J Daddy... sad but true

turbine posted:

My challenger arrives Saturday, Do I need to send it back before I open it, is it really serious. how bad is it out of sync. any videos

If you want the CORRECT articulated sound, yes...send it back. It was a mistake, make them fix it. In sync, out of sync makes no difference, the sound needs to be corrected on an $1800 engine and they will fix it.

Obviously this is a Cab Forward, AC12 articulated Legacy Locomotive. Notice the drivers as it goes by. The 2 different engines are OUT of SYNC. I made that change, it was a 5 minute job. Also note that the sound did NOT change at all whether they were in sync or out of sync. It's articulated, and has articulated sounds. Kind of hard to hear it being doubled headed with the GS4, BUT notice the AC12 is making twice as much sound as the GS4 as they go by 

Laidoffsick posted:

If you want the CORRECT articulated sound, yes...send it back. It was a mistake, make them fix it. In sync, out of sync makes no difference, the sound needs to be corrected on an $1800 engine and they will fix it.

This is pretty much the bottom line here.  Send it it in and get it fixed. 

Be nice if dealers would return their unsold inventory of the Challengers to Lionel, have the adjustments made, and then sell them so we don't have to deal with it.

Craignor posted:

Be nice if dealers would return their unsold inventory of the Challengers to Lionel, have the adjustments made, and then sell them so we don't have to deal with it.

Good point. That’s right thing to do. Dealers have power so use it. 

romiller49 posted:

Craignor posted:

Be nice if dealers would return their unsold inventory of the Challengers to Lionel, have the adjustments made, and then sell them so we don't have to deal with it.

Good point. That’s right thing to do. Dealers have power so use it. 

Well,using a far more serious issue as an example. None of the moguls with defective gearboxes were ever returned.

Lionel decided to gamble and only fix for those who realized or were aware there was an issue.

A far cry from the Mike Reagan days of Lionel where the entire run of turbines was recalled due to a potential waterlogging issue.

Funny how when I called my dealer the other day to cancel preorders.They knew right away it was the big ticket Lionel stuff without me even saying. I was also shocked that the didn't express any disappointment either.

Too much "oops were sorry", "that's good enough", with utter sillyness in between for me to spend thousand of dollars on Lionel any longer.

romiller49 posted:

Craignor posted:

Be nice if dealers would return their unsold inventory of the Challengers to Lionel, have the adjustments made, and then sell them so we don't have to deal with it.

Good point. That’s right thing to do. Dealers have power so use it. 

I thought about that as well. I would say though that since this isn't a recall by Lionel, that is out the window. Granted you could probably ask your dealer if they would send yours in, but that is at their discretion.

I think I am with Hot Water here.  "Synchronous" can mean matched at any angle. The only time an articulated is "unsynchronized" is when the drivers slip.

I think you are all talking about engines being "out of phase".  Since any angular disparity would be "locked in," I would say that having both engines in phase is just as likely as having them at, say, 30 degrees forever.

And indeed while I favor Mallets and articulateds, I find the amount of angst over this sound system a bit over the top.  Is there nothing else wrong with this model?  If so, then it is a winner!

I will not be buying one - last count around here was ten Challengers, but no sound.

One of the guys I talked with on FB is happy with his as is. I told him that it is good as he likes it as it is and that I would be getting the sounds to match the prior VL offering. We both will enjoy our engines the way we want to and that is a good thing.

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

One of the guys I talked with on FB is happy with his as is. I told him that it is good as he likes it as it is and that I would be getting the sounds to match the prior VL offering. We both will enjoy our engines the way we want to and that is a good thing.

Well isn't that nice lets put that on every public board we can so Lionel will never have to own there mistakes and can just keep producing substandard products at outrageous prices.

I don't see this as a big deal.  Will check out sounds when engine arrives and make a decision.  Dealer has already checked it for operation and says it runs well.  The plan is to have the Challenger and Big Boy running side by side!

Harold