Who has given up on smoke units?

I like running with the smoke on but with my basement layout ventilation is a serious problem.

I love the smoke feature and run all of my steamers with the smoke "on".

Sorry to hear about your difficulties.

Not me. I love my smoke units, and have re-built any that have suffered from problems. The best bit is, that they normally work even better than they did before, after I have rebuilt them with new wadding and careful assembly. 

Jim don't be so discouraged. Smoke units are like the victory arch, the icing on the cake, you just have to spend some time and service them... Now some engines like the Lionel S-3 it takes an act of God to get inside, these are a royal pain in the rear and I tend to only turn the smoke on once or twice a session. 

I know the 0-8-0 and the 4-6-0 are  NOT friendly either... I would leave them off until your ready to repair them.

I like to service my smoke units to top operating condition, then switch them off. It's just way too messy an affair, and the most enjoyment I get out of them is knowing they are in good working order should I ever change my mind on smoke again.

My PW smoke units all work fine.

Oh, you mean...

Nicole,

I have to rebuild a smoke unit on a 2004 Rio Grande TMCC SD40-2.  What wick material/ wadding do you use when rebuilding.  Thanks.

Best to use Lionel's original wick material. It's available direct from Lionel's parts department, and usually the strand works better than the pre-cut square. Mike Reagan's famous smoke unit rebuild tutorial will do the rest of the talking:

Besides messing of weathered models, the smoke residue gets all over the track & scenery. Remember, all those little "oil vapor" droplets that go up, must come down onto SOMETHING!

I haven't given up on them.  I just turn them off and not bother with them. 

Smoke means nothing to me.

Rusty

I use smoke on steam engines, but not on diesels. I have not given up on them but expect them to have problems if not taken care of.

Charlie

Your lungs (and those of anyone in the building) will thank you .  Mineral oil and the like are best not inhaled.

I use the Lionel standard pre-cut wadding. I bought a good supply of it last year, and it works great. 

I think I will repair my smoke units.  Then I will flip them off and only turn them on when I want to put on a show.  

The only time I use my smoke units is when I am putting on a show.  When the locomotive first starts moving it is great to see the huge plumes of smoke and then I turn the unit off as the steamer gets up to speed.  Hotwater is correct...the oil droplets end up all over the layout plus the fact that it is not likely to be good for one's lungs.  So....while I enjoy the smoke feature, I don't use it all of the time....

Alan

As a bronchiectasis sufferer I have now reluctantly turned off all my smokers.

Loved the coal fired scent do miss it & the atmosphere it gives to the old locos.

Typing whilst on my nebuliser so a poignant reminder

James

The smoking electrics are just silly without passenger cars... Diesels? Guess I buy them for the paint, with or without smoke I almost never run them... Smoking hotboxes make me smile wide... My steamers without smoke are seldom ran, and my best smokers get run most often... Guess I find smoke units to be an important "element" in my R.R. choices, not to mention the showboating for visitors..just choose off, and add a switch if you must, don't cripple them unnecessarily... Mercy!.. Not to mention resale... Im betting a smoking Pere Marquette gets more attention than a non-smoker... You'll be back! Do you how hard it is to stop smoking forever?  

Now your talking sense. Don't let the rain, and heat cloud your judgment like that man. Besides, das boat is a smoker too isn't it?

Yes that boat is a smoker and it will be smoking!

I love my smoke units; the more the better, especially steam. Diesels only once in a while. I run most diesels on low setting. You definitely need a good exhaust fan in the train room though.

The other night my wife came down briefly and said "That smells nice" I just about passed out from shock. That was a first. I was running JT's Spring flavor.

I have very few problems with MTH smokers, and when a problem pops up they are easy to service. Lionels seem to be more prone to troubles, but that may be just coincidence on my part.

I am not trying to start any kind of brand war debate. I have just as many of one as the other, and the new 3751 is one of the best Lionel smokers I have seen yet.

Anyway, smoke is in for me.

Rod

I wish I could get blue smoke to come out of some of my diesels.

I love smoke in everything. We have pretty good 3-season ventilation systems, though. (House is sealed up in summertime ... can't stand the humid heat)

Unfortunately smoke units are a regular maintanence issue, just the way it is.

The more often you use it, and the higher the setting, the more often the need for rebuilding.

This is compunded by the fact that the newer legacy units have "jumbo" resisitors that can only be run a few minutes before additional fluid is needed.

IMO the  "add ten drops" is a joke, the folks that mention adding an entire eyedropper at a time are probably correct.

I run mine on the lowest setting  and get good smoke production.  I also only use the smoke for short periods to extend the service life, but I know the units will eventually have to be rewicked. Its the "nature of the beast".

I guess i'm in the minority here, but as the smoke makes my eyes water and nostrils burn i do not run smoke under any circumstances. There's a guy in our train group that loves the smoke and would turn on the smoke in my engines when i wasn't looking. I've since found wire cutters solved that issue.

jackson

I like the Smoke in my Steam engines, they don't look right without it, But I do turn them off pretty quickly. The basement fills rapidly despite my fan blowing out the window. Perhaps another fan on the opposite side blowing in...

I am not much for the smoke either.  I have a few units that can do it, but I never turn it on.  I have acquired engines that had no smoke on/off switch, so I asked a very nice friend (a forum member) to install the switches.  To be honest, I can't recall the last time I used and engine with smoke.  My 5 year old likes the smoke, so that is when I turn it on, but I do not think she has asked me recently to do.

Smoking steamers are definitely a crowd pleasers, and when I get them going on all four of my mainlines, they'll smoke out the room pretty quickly.

I understand the frustration, though--I have six MPC starter set steamers that heat up fast and smoke like crazy, while several locomotives made within the last ten years are either very weak smokers, never worked, or have stopped working.

Fixing stuff like smoke is a required skill if you have a lot of smoking locomotives.

Pretty much the same here......I weather my locos....and run in the basement....so smoke is for visitor dispay only!

I like the smoke but in my basement it gets cloudy after a while. I'm considering just turning the smoke on occasionally especially on one loco that makes more than it's share of smoke.  Don

I am not understanding why more folks who worry about clouding up the train room, don't simply put in an exhaust fan?

If you have even one window in the room, its a natural, and there are plenty of exhaust fan options available at Home Depot, etc.

Then you can run smoke as much as you want, and you won't upset management either!

Rod

I get that the oil will come down, but I still don't agree with the argument that it will mess with weathering. A proper coat of clear or Dullcoat will protect that weathering in just the same as a factory clear protects the factory paint.

For me it's a no-brainer. Steam engines must have smoke. That is one of the biggest reasons to model in O scale after all. I take the opposite view... I am a 2Rer and I try to figure out how to transplant 3R smoke units into 2R brass steam. I just can't for the life of me figure out why someone would not want it if it was possible. Back in 1991 or so I saw the Lionel Scale Hudson with smoke and RailSounds at Trigg Marine in Boardman, OH. I have never been the same since ;-) Sound and smoke are a requirement for me. I'll deal with whatever maintenance comes along. It is worth it to me.

Heck, I wish they would go back to the AF Smoke In Tender idea. Keep everything easy to work on and have a much bigger reservoir so you don't have to fill it as often. More, more, more

I say, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em." The MTH smoke units are superb, two steps above all of the rest, and a "must use" on a steam engine.

Nicole, Nick,

Thanks for the info.  I saw the video of Mike repairing the unit...and that inspired me to tackle this rebuild.  Thanks again.

I had a bathroom exhaust fan installed in my train room (seperate on switch from the lights) and it does a great job of pulling the smoke out from those proto units. You can even smell the pine scent outside lol.

I don't run mine except occasionally. It bothers my throat.

All mine smoke

I love the smell of the MTH Christmas scent but the Proto 1 units can't be regulated only shut off and will smoke you out of the house. Thats why I had the exhaust fan installed. 

OK, I am assuming that you have a LOT of weathered steam and diesel locomotives, plus you are VERY experienced at doing the weathering yourself, in order to make such statements? Now, I am not able to do weathering myself (asthma), so I have a friend, who is a long standing custom modeler, scratch builder, and painter/weatherer do the weathering on EVERYTHING I own. He has also been doing my custom weathering since 1972, going back to my HO modeling days! EVERY SINGLE time I have attempted turning on the smoke units on ANY of my dozens of MTH steam models, or 19 Sunset/3rd Rail models, or 5 Lionel models, the dammed oil droplets spit out and fall down all over the top of the smokebox! All the clear/dull coat in the world isn't going to mask that crap sitting on top of everything!

Hot Water,

Johnnyspeed's comment, I think, is from the interpretation of smoke fluid "messing up" or "ruining" weathering meaning that the smoke fluid will physically destroy or melt away the weathering; like acetone and thinner can destroy the paint, not just because it "covers it up."

While I agree that smoke fluid remnants can negate flat or dull finishes, and chalk weathering with no overcoat to protect aside, a layer of smoke fluid certainly isn't going to hide any simulated rust, ash, dust, and similar effects.

Do you also have a lot of weathered steam locomotive models, and have also seen what that darned oil does to the nice soot effect on the top of the smokebox?

I for the life of me don't understand the "weathering" of engines....do you guys purposely dirty up your cars as well (just kidding!)?   Seriously, one of the reasons I really got hooked in the hobby was because of the improved smoking effect on these new locos.   Can't imagine running a steamer without it.....diesels, only occasionally only because it's not as impressive to me.... 

I assume your perception of all real railroad equipment is that it stays perfectly clean for ever?

Exactly what I meant John. I have never seen smoke fluid "eat through" any weathering that was properly sealed. I have never had a problem with it on my engines that I have weathered. Never had an issue with residue messing up anything on the layout either. Like I said, I don't understand the issue. Not saying it doesn't exist, but I don't have it. If you are getting a ton of liquid drops spitting from the stack then you are probably putting in too much fluid. Either way, a quick wipe down when done running and it's all good. Not a problem for me.

Smoke = Good IMHO. Steam engines that don't smoke look goofy to me.

smoking trains is one of the aspects i love about toy trains.fortunately the smoke doesn't bother my wife.

i always leave my smoke units on and never turn them off.i've had only two resistor's go out on me the last five year's i've been into O gauge.i have about 25 smoker's total so im having pretty good luck so far.

although i cant repair them myself no more i send them out to a pro for repair if need be.

thop........

Some people want to play with toy trains, some people want a scale model of reality.  Neither is wrong.

In the back of my mind I always wondered if the same principles used in a vaporizer could be used to produce non oily "smoke". I would think it would be healthier. I suppose it would add to the overall cost and the voltage could be problematic to get it to work. No wicks. When I used to use smoke fluid the refilling was fairly often, so I imagine a small reservoir filled with a similar eye dropper might be feasible..just a passing thought...fans are already used with the smoking oil..I realized the smoke units contributed a great deal to gunk on the rails, so I stopped using this option.

Bruce 

The incredibly realistic smoke effects are what attracted me to O gauge in the first place. Give up on smoke....never. If it makes a mess....well that's just part of the maintenance.

Fifteen or so years ago, when I had a garden RR, I always envied those O gauge guys with their smoke'n steamers....and then 'i saw the light'

Ray 

Give up on smoke units?  Wut? That's just  talk, there.

What's next, changing to HO?

The PRR Panhandle is set in the mid-1950s.  Lots of pollution, lots of smoke, but lots of prosperity.  In my recreation of this time, we are running 3 shifts with all 4 blast furnaces producing iron, and my 1:48 workers are fully employed.

George

That's a good thought. I was wondering if there's some technology in those new-fangled e-cigarettes that we could leverage. Minus the nicotine...

Pete

I am not sure I get the "gucky residue" and "oily mess" business exactly. 

I have been using JT's exclusively the last few years and I don't notice this at all, and I use the smoke feature a lot when running steamers.

I have a window exhaust fan and it passes a lot of smoke during an average operating session.

Now if there is a "gucky residue" inherent in the smoke it would be deposited all over the exhaust fan blades, right? 

A short while ago I had it apart for inspection, and guess what? No residue of any sort on the blades at all!

Another thing I have noticed. When a small amount of fluid is accidentally spilled on the side of a boiler during filling, I wipe it up as best I can, but it leaves a shiny residue unavoidably. By the next day this residue has completely evaporated leaving no trace of where it was. So how is a fluid that evaporates like this going to leave an oily residue? 

Maybe it's just me, but I think the concerns about oily mess and eating scenery are largely overblown.

For those that have had this problem, maybe consider trying a different smoke fluid? Just a thought.

Rod

Smoke is the business ! cant imagine any engine without smoke

We only run engines that smoke exceedingly well over here in the UK, its all part of the experience, have to have all the windows open or we cant see the trains and you can forget the smoke alarms (heaven knows what the insurance company would say )

If an engine doesn't smoke well then it has to go to the inhouse repair shop for new wadding and a good clean.

All mine smoke well and visitors especially children love the smoke particularly on the steam locos

I have to close by saying first prize over here goes to Mike W who's engines have the most incredible smoke !

We have no problem with smoke fluid residue on the rails, could this be a case of a leak or some overfilling ?

Rod

It may depend on what specific smoke unit is used. Perhaps even the fluid. I know that once I stopped using these units the blackish gunk from the rails vanished to a great extent. When I wiped the track and looked at the paper towel, it was black..like oil..and had a very similar consistency. No recent oiling of engines or cars had predated this build up. As they say, results may vary..and I don't have an exhaust fan which may be a contributing factor.

i concur. I too use MegaSteam and I've never noticed any residue on anything. I also don't suffer from 'spitting' or oil droplets on the bodies of my locomotives. But then, I am careful when filling (I use the little funnel, and add fluid slowly.) and I ensure that the smoke unit is turned off and has cooled for a few minutes before I add fluid.

As Rod states, any time that I have spilt a drop or two onto the body shell, it wipes off easily and leaves no marks after a few hours to allow for evaporation.

I normally run smoke on everything that I have running, and I don't consider it a good day if I can still see across the room after a few minutes! 

I don't use smoke due to poor ventilation in the trainroom, and the mess it makes over time on the locomotives, using the traditional fluids.

We do put 10-15 drops in the smoke units from time to time to keep the wicks okay and for the occasional times the locomotive comes up with the smoke unit running.

This picture was posted by another forum member a couple weeks ago. This is what happens when you mix weathering with smoke fluid. Steam or diesel, 100 layers of Dull-Cote, it can, and usually does happen. It's not going to "eat" plastic, but its a lot like dripping butter on your shirt.

I use JT's and MTH smoke. The only way I have ever had an engine look like this was when my son was little and just learning. As was mentioned above, turn the smoke unit off, let cool, do not overfill. Any little (not like this) spots are wiped off and evaporate soon after. Obviously this is different for different people. It would be interesting to find out what the variables are because I simply don't have this problem. If I still owned my weathered steamers I would post a pic, but I don't. But that much fluid would be visible on factory painted engines. My son runs full smoke all the time on his Railking engines and even after a couple hours they have never looked this bad.

Perhaps a light coat of smoke fluid sprayed all over this KK4 would actually enhance the appearance?  Or at least even it out...

We run our smoke units all the time. As stated by many above, its a great feature and adds to the realism and fuels our imaginations!

My American Flyer 312 K5 was a great smoker as a boy and I have fond memories of the hefty white puffs along with the 'authentic' Gilbert Choo-Choo that was severely lacking in my friend's 3 rail trains...

I haven't.

My 13-year old has severe issues with the smoke, so I make sure not to have the smoke unit on if he is around when I'm running the trains.  Otherwise, puff away!