Why are we running our trains with outdated technology?

So far the Bachmann technology has only gotten to the H.O. or N scale world and may take another year or two years to hit the O scale market.

If I am correct the drawback to WiFi is that you must have an internet signal to run your trains with or an internet device.

Has anybody seen the new price for the Bachmann technology? And can you upgrade your older trains to the new technology?

These will be determining factors for a lot of people to decide if they will go that route or not.

Lee Fritz

For some people, the newest electronic gadget is their hobby.   For others, Learning to use what they have and mastering it, is their hobby.    Neither is right or wrong.

For me, tablets and smart phones, or any kind of touch screen is very  unattractive for operating my trains.    First off, I have dry hands and fingers, so any thing I do with touch screens and pads is very erratic.    It is almost random behavior.   I would be so frustrating trying to use one to run trains, I would be tempted to give up the hobby.

Second, I like switching, with car cards, or switchlists or some way of routing cars into industrial sidings specifically by car number and location.    This requires a lot of slow movement, back and forth moves, and fine control for stopping and starting.   I have found that a large throttle control knob works best for me.   I have learned that push buttons and thumbwheels and as above touchpads, just do not let me do this the way I want.    

Maybe there are others out there like me.   

I think you're definitely on the right track Gary.  Blue tooth has been around long enough now that it has to be becoming fairly inexpensive. We don't need the 'absolute cutting edge technology' either  to run the trains.  The 'big boys' had better get on this soon or they just might lose out to an inventive third party supplier...

This makes sense to me...but, given all the investment in the old-fashioned way...I can't imagine when such a shift will be made.  Note that the MTH 50-1034 WiFi module is under development and I would presume is an effort to incorporate WiFi while preserving the existing system(s).  As long as everything must go through the TIU...nothing has really changed.  Of course, it is really putting another layer on top of the old DCS system...and, thereby, something else to go wrong.  I am fairly sure we'll have an effective WiFi connection to the DCS system that will continue to suffer from bugs and operator-induced-quirks.

I have to agree on the subject that I hate all the new technology to run trains with.

Even with MTH's DCS system you must upgrade the DCS base every year or two.

Lee Fritz

Your right Gary, I showed my legacy to a friend of mine who is a designer of computer systems (not sure of his real title) and he mentioned on why they were using old technology. He thinks the same of DCS.

He thought it was neat but mentioned it could be done much cheaper and more compatible . He could not get over that both legacy and dcs are not compatible. 

Btw he is not a train guy. 

I would figure our only option is some third party came out with a kit to retro your engine.  Again more money but may be an option with those with older engines. 

Here's what one of my long time good friends and technology guru once told me: 

WiFi is great.....when it works.  I've had enough trouble keeping WiFi printers (and even internet, to some degree) working at all times.  I don't want the ***-ache with my model trains.

Lionel Folks were once sold on TMCC only to have Legacy turn up.....not that it's a bad thing.  MTH folks have gone the PS-1,2,3 route.  There is an "enough is enough already" mind set out there in our hobby.  For good reason, me thinks.

Lastly, once people get their layout running with TMCC, Legacy, PS 1-3,...or what have you, this mentality develops....myself included:  "Everything works now.  I'm not touching it."

I'll follow the WiFi movement with cautious skepticism but I won't be drinking the Kool Aid any time soon.  With technology, I always let someone else be the guinea pig. 

Q: Why are we running our trains with outdated technology?

A: Because it's fun.

Steven Serenska

After reading this thread I have never been more proud to be running my trains with conventional transformer control.

I have no beef with technology though, and as soon as there is a universal system of whiz-bang control I will give it serious consideration.

Pete

I still think rechargeable batteries and remote control are the future of model railroading.

Don

The trains are the thing, not the electronics that controls them.  That why the hobby's called Model Railroading.

Rusty

Great thread.

I am like a few of the folks above. I shy away from the latest technology and let the ones who want to be front runners deal with it, then when one technology becomes dependable I'll jump when the price is right.

Same with our hobby. 

I mostly have a conventional set up I love it still and always will. I DO welcome more realistic sounds and cuffin and puffin steamers!! As with LionChief. I did jump on that becuz it was so simple , easy to use, affordable and fun!!

WiFi is a wireless standard used for communication between two or more network-enabled devices. A connection to the internet is not required. As an example, both Lionel's and MTH's WiFi products can be used completely standalone - you only need to buy their "adapter" and make use of your WiFi-enabled phone as a controller with no connection to the internet required.

Don, more realistic, you would have to stop to 're-fuel'!

My layout is based on the technology that I used as a kid in the 50's.  Conventional all the way.  Same vintage wiring scheme--an incomprehensible mess.   I enjoy running the old, beat up diesels and steamers, not the new stuff.  I picked up a 2233 Santa Fe powered A, dummy B, powered A set at Springfield.  Well worn shells but run flawlessly.  Have been running them every day for the past two weeks.  The ABA set looks great! I love it.  My wife says that I am acting like our grandchildren when they get new toys. We have WiFi in the house and smart phones, but I have kept one rotary dial phone in the kitchen.

Will we be able to talk to the system using one of those pretentious bluetooth things you hang on your ear?  We could then walk around, talking to our trains, tuning out the remainder of humanity, and other people would just consider us to be even crazier then we already are.  

If money were no object, pushing the bounds of technology could be common place in our hobby. Unfortunately, that is not the case. In narrow margin markets, "technology" follows rather than leads in order to keep costs down.

Just my $0.02

Gilly

 R&D for new technologies is expensive.

I still run and only run TMCC with Speed control, Lionel, Atlas and K-Line. I am happy with this system for two reasons. First I am getting really good deals on engines that only have TMCC because others are upgrading and second I have no problems running my engines using this technologies. They go when I tell them to go and they stop when I tell them to stop.  They also sound really good to me with Railsounds.

I personally find a big "outdated" clunky handheld with specific controls for specific functions, not unlike the prototype, more engaging, and more fun when running trains.

IMO running train via and ipad or phone is boring, I enjoy pulling levers and turning dials.

Might as well just dump the three dementional trains and go with a Trainz simulator. then your trains and controls are all on the computer, with endless possibilities.

Legacy and DCS hanhelds work for me, at least until one of the manufacturers sells a cab mockup of a steamer/diesel that will fit in my train room to run my trains.

Why?  Because we can.  I have both legacy and DCS.  I'm fine with it.  Matt

Gary,

I think you are right on the money with this observation.  AND if the common operating standard is open sourced, even better.  That way anyone in this forum or in the broader hobby can participate and make the OS even better!.  

Hopefully the big manufacturers see the writing on the wall and get there on their own, or a 3rd party vendor will beat them to the punch.

I would upgrade every engine I own to such a system.  Wifi enabled, run from a smart phone or tablet, or for those who like the feel of a traditional control system, just offer one that will convert the analog inputs to digital and send it out the wifi.

The beauty of such a system is that it's not limited.  

Thanks for starting such an interesting thread.

Jon

Precisely. Why should I change it? (No matter what is said in this discussion, I am not.) And I certainly am not climbing under, atop, and around the layout to re-wire or re-do anything involved with any suggested new operating system ability.

However, if I were advising a client who wanted to have a first-layout, I am not sure what I'd advise him. Is anybody sure?

FrankM

Layout Refinements

P.S. Very interesting and informative topic, Supeerwarp1/Gary. Thank you for posting it.

Because I'm not buying another system and starting over. I'm not going to go reset the router and reboot my system when I want to run trains. Nor will I dial up another engine while texting on my phone. People complain about prices of equipment now.

I agree with Rick........if I wanted to play with a video game I would play with Lionel's battle train app......personally I enjoy the tactile feeling of pulling levers throwing toggle switches and hitting buttons and thumbwheels when operating my trains.  Using an Ipad or an iphone takes your eyes off the trains to the extent you are constantly swiping to get to the next screen or squinting to find that icon to operate a train function.  I say keep it simple.....after all watching the trains and having eye/hand coordination with the equipment is what the hobby is all about.   

I am probably gonna get hammered for this one......but I will use the example of the old Atari video system......when it first came out with its intuitive one button and joystick, with minimal instruction booklet, it provided countless hours of game play that anyone could lean quickly.......then games became more and more complex with multi buttoned controllers and complicated instructional booklets that you needed a PHD to handle.  For me, thats when it became too burdensome to continue with that hobby.

Bottomline, I just want to run trains, not having to upgrade and learn new systems, that pretty much do the same thing.

Just my 2 cents

-Pete

Correction:  The engines I bought in Springfield are 2243, not 2233.  Just cleaned my glasses!

I have several knife switches and buttons on my panel that do not work.  However, I cannot figure out/remember what they were supposed to do.  There are also all sorts of wires that do not seem to serve any purpose.   But, everything works so why fool with any of it.  My only bow to technology is with transformers.  Although I have a ZW and a KW, both in excellent condition, I use an MTH Z4000 with a hand control and an MRC Pure Power Dual for the layout.   I like meters and LEDS!   This is a great thread.  Thanks so much.

Conventional all the way. Doubt if I would ever invest in electronic stuff for toy trains. I like some technology. Have had the very latest in digital cameras and video, but, of course, within a year it is outmoded-but still works !!

What do you mean outdated? I shelved all the old transformers with cloth insulated cords and replaced them with modern rubber corded units. 

Yea, I'm looking forward to the day I can have a plug in the back of my head like in the Matrix, and just think my commands. With all this excess money I have to get rid of, I would like to update my technology on a daily basis. All the outdated junk I have now should go into a land fill. 

Paul Goodness

Radio control is what 60 years old and is just starting to catch on in Ogauge with LionChief? And you wonder why more aren't clamoring to jump on the wifi bandwagon when the technology is only ten years old?

This is the newest tech I use for my trains...

No knock on technology but I work with computerized stuff all day long and I've come to the conclusion that newer doesn't always equate to better. They introduce so many newer ways to do the same thing that you never really get to work out the bugs on a system that might work great given enough time. My ZWs and LWs have a proven track record and any issues with them have long since been addressed and fixed or worked around. Plus I can do my own repairs(I don't count board pulling as repairing).

Jerry

May be old, but still very good. I have TMCC engines from a long time ago that I am not in any rush to upgrade for the latest and best. I have some of those and if I want to show off an engine and the latest features. If you are a techie and have to have the latest technology, go for it. But personably  not having every engine and every piece of equipment representative of what's new doesn't bother me one bit.

Sounds like there are a few potential "inventive 3rd party suppliers" on this thread.

They should quickly take out some loans to get on the development cycle.  The money will obviously pour in and they will be rolling in dough once they build it.

Obviously MTH and Lionel have never considered this, they don't pay people to consider this type of thing.  They must just be clueless.

Or maybe not........

(95% of post made in jest/sarcasm for those who can't tell)

I think the further we go with technology, the more we lose focus on the point of it all.These are toy trains, not mission control at NASA. The simplicity of it all makes it fun!

You just can't beat the cool iconic look of a ZW! That, and TMCC is as far as I'm goin'.