Why So Few 2-Rail Locos For Sale

Daryl,

I had the same thoughts when entering O Scale 2 rail,but found the majority of the O Scale is 3 rail,not 2. Much of the 3 rail is to "scale" now,highly detailed but still using 3 rails. I've had to have 3 of my loco's converted from 3 rail to 2, because,like you mentioned,the 2 rail models hardly exist. The odd thing is that trying to sell any of these converted diesels,is that they hardly sell.

Not to cut O Scale down,but with the increasing prices of O Scale and the lack of new products,or at least the availability of current ones,plus the limited size of housing,the markets are going to keep trending towards HO,N and even Z Scales. 

Just my opinions for what little they're worth.

Al Hummel

Daryl

There are many more folks in O Scale that run their trains on 3 rail track than there ever will be those who favor 2 rail track systems.  A dealer who is successful selling 3 rail equipment is hesitant to stock 2 rail locos and in some cases discourages a newcomer to buy 2 rail models indicating that this option is not a good way to go since he does not have it in his inventory.  Those of us who know better find a dealer that promotes 2 rail and move on.  I have converted many 3 rail locomotives to 2 rail operation for modelers all over the world and others have learned to make the necessary modifications but mostly on the newer diesels made by MTH using their conversion wheel sets.

There seems to be a growing number of converted modern 2 rail for sale on ebay.  If you really want 2 rail, don't give up so easily...the stuff is out there.

Joe

I agree with Joe's assessment. There's plenty of 2 rail locomotives if one puts in some time and effort in searching. I don't expect the average dealer to stock them since they can make a business out of those who prefer the more readily available 3 rail products. The search is part of the enjoyment of 2 rail frankly.

Bob

Alan Hummel posted:

 I've had to have 3 of my loco's converted from 3 rail to 2, because,like you mentioned,the 2 rail models hardly exist. The odd thing is that trying to sell any of these converted diesels,is that they hardly sell.

 

Maybe that's why there are so few of those specific models in 2 rail - the manufacturers / importers might know something about the actual market numbers vs. their costs to make a production lot of those specific items.

Not to cut O Scale down,but with the increasing prices of O Scale and the lack of new products,or at least the availability of current ones,plus the limited size of housing,the markets are going to keep trending towards HO,N and even Z Scales. 

Just my opinions for what little they're worth.

That's what's been stated now for more than 50 years........

emdalco01 posted:

This is probably a stupid question, but every retailer appears to have a glut of 3 rail locos for sale and a drought of 2 rail locos for sale, especially those fitted with DCC and sound.

Surely this proves there is a strong demand for more 2-rail locos to be produced.

Maybe if there's a retailer on the forum who could explain the situation because since Atlas closed their forum we haven't had the connection to manufacturing intel we once had. We also as modellers lost our voice.

This situation is making it very hard to stay in O Scale and especially 2-rail under the present circumstances.

There's plenty of 2-rail rollingstock to buy, but hardly any 2-rail locos to pull them.

Regards Daryl

It's an excellent question. 

Even worse than no 2 rail locos is no decent 2 rail track and switches to run the trains on.

A fine example of the problem...3 hours - no bids...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LIONE...-MOHAWK/273132036647

I bought the same engine with the same pictures and description about 3 weeks ago from the same seller. It is on the layout now. Nice piece.  Al

There were plenty of 2 rail locomotives for sale at the March Meet in Chicago.

There is a ton of stuff out there if you look, and NONE of it is made by the two major three rail producers. Do not discount the secondary market! Go to some 2 rail specific shows/meets. If you go to a show that allows 3 rail, that is all you will see! How much of the three rail stuff that is available that is to correct scale is questionable.  Precious little of either (2 or 3) is 100% accurate, but 2 is generally far superior accuracy wise.

Simon

Just and FYI, there are 4 ea Atlas California Zephyr 2 rail cars in the auction advertised here on OGR on 14 & 15 April that you can attend or Remote Pre-Bid on. There are also a couple 2 rail freight cars.

David

I agree there are literally tons of 2 rail locomotives out there but the OP said, “especially those fitted DCC and sound.”  In that particular case I agree with OP. There are very few diesels out there that have DCC and sound. All I can think of is Atlas, GGD, and MTH and even less if someone wants steam with DCC and sound. 

I think if we as O scalers want a particular locomotive with DCC and sound what we are going to have to do is learn how to add the DCC and sound ourselves. 

There is 2 rail for sale on the forum right now, I just sold two last month, and a Hudson last fall, York pickup. Put a add on the Wanted forum. Don't forget most MTH Premier line is DCC ready and 2 rail convertible with just a screw driver.

I'm going to take a slighter different angle on this very frequent topic of discussion.  IMO, I would like to see O scale manufacturer's take an approach to diesel locomotives similar to what Lionel has started doing with their kinematic pilots PLUS add what MTH is doing with PS3 equipped and 3/2 convertible locomotives, giving both 3R and 2R more of what they want less scale length handrails, which I don't mind bending for fixed pilot locomotives.    In many cases you can carefully straighten existing handrails on MTH locomotives and make a new bend closer to the end of the wire giving you enough length for a more realistic appearance.  With the kinematic pilots the gap can be significantly smaller, and if it bothers you, the gap can still be filled after fixing the pilots. 

By taking this approach the need for manufacturers to produce fixed pilot models, dealers stocking both 2R and 3R models, and modelers complaining about the perceived low quantities of fixed pilot, scale wheel models available will go away or be significantly reduced.  What the 3RS and 2R communities could really benefit from is each other and combine to help drive manufacturers to continue to make highly detailed scaled models in a more unified O scale.  

Maybe it’s because 2-railers tend not to sell their trains as often as 3-railers.

 I see sale items all the time for 3-Rail equipment still in the shipping box, don’t ever recall seeing any 2-Rail still in the shipping box for sale, unless it was purchased by mistake.

"........No decent turnouts....."Are these decent enough?

Call Brad Strong for anything from a standard numbered turnout to any configuration imaginable.

Extremely smooth and dependable.  

Web site is signature switch co.

Tom, Those are some awesome switches.  Brad's switches at Signature Switch Company are incredible.  Highly recommended.  Bill also has awesome switches at O Scale Turnouts

Certainly can't go wrong with either Brad or Bill.

Bob Delbridge posted:

Maybe it’s because 2-railers tend not to sell their trains as often as 3-railers.

 I see sale items all the time for 3-Rail equipment still in the shipping box, don’t ever recall seeing any 2-Rail still in the shipping box for sale, unless it was purchased by mistake.

There is more of a "collector" mentality in 3-rail which accounts for people buying items and leaving them in the box. Perhaps they expect these items to increase in value and then sell at a profit? All my trains are 3-rail "scale" and I don't sell anything. If I liked it when I bought it, I still like it today.

MELGAR

I agree with melgar, there do not seem to be very many collectors in 2 rail as compared with 3 rail.    Most 2 railers seem to buy models they want to run or display because they like that particular model, not because it fills a slot in their collection.    So probably most do not by as an investment and therefore do not keep them new in the original box etc.    I knew one old fellow who immediately threw any boxes away when he bought something.   I keep my empty boxes in case I ever do want to sell, because it is easier to pack.  

As for locos for sale, there are always lots and lots and on ebay mostly brass.    And if you go to one of the 2 Rail O scale shows such as the March Meet in Chicago, the Cleveland Show, the Indy show, or O Scale West, you will find tables and tables of locos for sale, literally hundreds of all types.

I think there are just no many posted on OGR.    I noticed 2 things when I posted some 2 rail stuff on OGR, first, I got no responses or interest.    Second, the listings fill  up so fast that in less than a day, my listing was pushed back off the page to some back page, so it was not seen so easy.

From MY observation--it appears that 2 rail 'O' scalers are often "builders"

While the 3 railers are often "buyers".

-Salty Rails-

PRRJIM,

Did you ever try 2RL O SCALE SWAP MEET? I have things listed there. Have only sold 1 item so far there. Ebay's done the best as far as sales completed,but even that's not saying much.

Al Hummel

Salty Rails posted:

From MY observation--it appears that 2 rail 'O' scalers are often "builders"

While the 3 railers are often "buyers".

-Salty Rails-

I think there is some truth in that statement. When I was in a 2 rail club there was at least two guys there that had over 100 locomotives each and I would definitely classify them as "buyers" and there were a few guys I would classify as "builders". Over the years I have met collectors in 2 rail but they collected highly detailed models of their favorite road instead of collecting one brand like Lionel. I do agree that the 3 railer tends to want to fill their basement with as many trains as possible (not that there's anything wrong with that-just stating an observation). Just look at all the interest in the $20-$30 freight cars from Menards and RMT. I personally would rather have one really nice freight car at a price of $60 or so instead of 3 freight cars from Menards but to each his own.

I took a look at the above link to the eBay auction. It was an older Lionel NYC Mohawk that someone had converted to 2 rail. Since I collect the NYC I decided to bid on it. Opening bid was $165 plus $35 shipping. I have 2 Mohawks already (both have much better detail) but if I could have gotten it for $175 or less I would have taken it. I bid $175 but someone else wanted it more and it sold for $177.50. I did not want to get into a bidding war for it as I felt it wasn't a very valuable piece. I guess I probably should have bid a little higher but too late now. At least it did not go unsold and I hope it goes to a good home.

I was explaining the 2 rail market to a non train visitor just yesterday...it does sound kind of backwards.  Unlike HO and 3 railers, 2 railers have learned to rely more on  the second market or build or modify what we want out of necessity.   We (I) just don't expect to find 2 rail in a hobby shop.  Engine wise, 2/3rd s of my engines were bought used.  Three of them were converted from 3 rail.   Only a 1/3rd were bought new, all but one directly from the manufacturer.    Compared to 1990, there is alot more available both new and used.  15 years ago I would search ebay for 2 rail o scale and get 2 pages at the most.  Now it is many times that amount.  I keep telling myself I have enough engines but have one on order from a manufacturer and just bought one off of ebay that I couldn't pass up.  As for DCC, I don't think anyone has ever produced a 2 rail steam engine with factory DCC.  Does anyone know of one?  Both Atlas and Sunset have produced factory DCC deisels.

astarr posted:

  As for DCC, I don't think anyone has ever produced a 2 rail steam engine with factory DCC.  Does anyone know of one?  Both Atlas and Sunset have produced factory DCC deisels.

Yes, the ill fated Atlas 0-6-0 had DCC and sound (I have one) and all the MTH PS 3.0 steam locomotives with a -2 have DCC and sound (I have several). Those are the only examples I can come up with. We all know Lionel doesn't do 2 rail, Sunset does but does not include DCC and sound and when Weaver was in business they decided to stay with TMCC and never switched over to DCC like Atlas did.

Any new MTH steamer with PS3 and scale wheels will operate on DCC on 2R track out of the box.

MTH PS3...and the Atlas 0-6-0 Gold edition which had DCC.  Overlooked both. 

Mike, do you operate a MTH Steam with DCC?  Works fine both electrically and wheels?

Hudson J1e posted:

astarr posted:

  As for DCC, I don't think anyone has ever produced a 2 rail steam engine with factory DCC.  Does anyone know of one?  Both Atlas and Sunset have produced factory DCC deisels.

Yes, the ill fated Atlas 0-6-0 had DCC and sound (I have one) and all the MTH PS 3.0 steam locomotives with a -2 have DCC and sound (I have several). Those are the only examples I can come up with. We all know Lionel doesn't do 2 rail, Sunset does but does not include DCC and sound and when Weaver was in business they decided to stay with TMCC and never switched over to DCC like Atlas did.

From the 3-Rail CB&Q mikado brochure:

Rusty Traque posted:

Hudson J1e posted:

astarr posted:

  As for DCC, I don't think anyone has ever produced a 2 rail steam engine with factory DCC.  Does anyone know of one?  Both Atlas and Sunset have produced factory DCC deisels.

Yes, the ill fated Atlas 0-6-0 had DCC and sound (I have one) and all the MTH PS 3.0 steam locomotives with a -2 have DCC and sound (I have several). Those are the only examples I can come up with. We all know Lionel doesn't do 2 rail, Sunset does but does not include DCC and sound and when Weaver was in business they decided to stay with TMCC and never switched over to DCC like Atlas did.

From the 3-Rail CB&Q mikado brochure:

 2 Rail Models come with Back-Lit Dials on the fully detailed back head and cab interior. Cab Lighting. Directional Lighting

 and Kadee Coupler Installed. The option to add QSI “Titan” DC/DCC Decoder with Digital Sound is available.

 

Rusty

That's good to know. This has to be one of the first times that Sunset has offered DCC and sound in a steam locomotive. I am glad they are finally getting on board.

Many 2 rail fans generally have no hesitation when it comes to building locomotives from kits, or at least modifying existing motive power to suit their needs better. That would include installing DCC decoders and speakers when required.

When I see a potential loco for sale I first judge it for it's relevance to my chosen prototype, if it qualifies there then I assess it's condition to basically measure what sort of project it will become for me.

I am ready to repair, add or improve details, remotor and regear to achieve operational qualities, and ultimately paint and decal all as part of my pursuit of this hobby on the 2 rail side of it. That IS the hobby for me.

I want to work at it, and would never be content with it being a ready to run pastime dependent on the manufactures supply line. I'm also a believer in "Less is More"... a few nice engines that spent a long time coming back to life on my workbench beats waiting in line for the next new offering from manufactures row. Enough said.

Bob

Dear Daryl,

First of all, kudos to you and the handful of Australian's who model American O scale. Neville has shared his trials and tribulations on obtaining equipment from the USA for his stunning layout.

I can also share your grief as besides my interest in my own countries railroad  O Scale models, I also have a affliction for British 7MM O scale and German 0 Scale which thru my membership in the Gauge 0 Guild and just participating in the different internet groups has lessened the search to purchase locos and equipment and the cost to ship across the "pond" as my British friends call it.

I personally have never had a issue buying any American prototype 2 rail equipment and find/rely on the 2 rail shows/O scaleyardsale/ebay to satisfy my O scale fun and fellowship !!!

See you all at Strasburg on the 14th of April !!!

John P.Dunn Sr. Scale2 Rail Promotions    CVMRR- President

You definitely have to be resourceful when it comes to modeling in 2-rail. For me that means taking a DC engine and installing a DCC decoder with sound if it is not already DCC ready.

I'm satisfied with the offerings from MTH and Atlas although the latter hasn't been offering much lately. I've been fortunate enough to locate older, out of production Atlas engines by asking around. There are dealers like Merlyn Lauber, Norm Pullen, Andy Petersen and Beth Marshall from whom I've bought a number of 2-rail locomotives.

astarr posted:

MTH PS3...and the Atlas 0-6-0 Gold edition which had DCC.  Overlooked both. 

Mike, do you operate a MTH Steam with DCC?  Works fine both electrically and wheels?

Yes, no issues have 4-6-6-4 and 4-8-8-4.  Biggest consideration is having the appropriate radius for the 2R steamers.

First thanks to all you guys who have replied. It's greatly appreciated.

As John pointed out I live in Australia which adds an extra challenge and cost to my hobby.

I would dearly love to attend O Scale meets as I have seen the photos of all the locos for sale, but unfortunately that is not practical due to health reasons.

Also many of those attending O Scale meets with items are non contactable otherwise.

So unless someone who regularly attends meets wants to just kindly become my agent in the USA this is not an option.

It would certainly be a lot easier for me if someone can suggest a retailer, meet seller or specialist dealer I can contact and say I'm looking for this loco and they do the searching for me.

I do regularly check eBay and locos do turn up but not what I'm looking for.

I know if I could make it to O Scale meets this would be a non issue for me. I'd have all the locos, new or used, that I needed.

Once again thanks for your input.

Regards Daryl

emdalco01 posted:

This is probably a stupid question, but every retailer appears to have a glut of 3 rail locos for sale and a drought of 2 rail locos for sale, especially those fitted with DCC and sound.

Surely this proves there is a strong demand for more 2-rail locos to be produced.

Maybe if there's a retailer on the forum who could explain the situation because since Atlas closed their forum we haven't had the connection to manufacturing intel we once had. We also as modellers lost our voice.

This situation is making it very hard to stay in O Scale and especially 2-rail under the present circumstances.

There's plenty of 2-rail rollingstock to buy, but hardly any 2-rail locos to pull them.

Regards Daryl

Well I don't know where you shop but there are plenty of 2 rail diesel's out there. Are you looking in the right places? 

Norms o scale in Maine.

Allegheny Scale Models in NJ

Just Trains in Delaware

P&D hobby Shop in Michigan

American Scale Models in WI

On the Left coast there's Peterson Supply Co, Public Delivery Track

Just Google o scale brass and there are a listing of dealers besides the huge amount on eBay as well as some on Amazon.

The way I see it, if everything imaginable were available for cheap, I would lose interest.  I want a hobby that has some individuality.  

I do have a few "purchased" locomotives, but I also have a huge fleet of kit-built, and I think 35 scratchbuilt locomotives.  When I wish to admire a locomotive, I bypass the imported brass and go straight to one that I built with my bare hands (and a few machine tools).

That said, it is difficult to imagine a better market for buying O Scale steam.  I am watching USH Daylight Northerns go for $500 and change - they used to be $1500 with a lousy paint job!  Name something (other than a D&H Consolidation) that you cannot buy in O Scale?

I know Daryl he has visited me and run trains, I know what he wants and I share his frustration the difference between Daryl and myself is I have been in O scale for 40 years and know the problems Daryl has not and it is frustrating for an Overseas newcomer to start in American O scale not with freight cars plenty of them but switching locomotives like the Atlas SW's or the later switching locomotives I forget the class it's the modern version of an SW. That is what Daryl is after.

There is a nice Atlas 2-Rail Lehigh Valley SW on the bay at the moment I'm not bidding won't be around for 10 days and usually someone snipes it in the last second.

So 2-rail slow moving switchers are virtually impossible to buy at the moment for overseas modellers if there was some Hobby Shop that had plenty I would be buying them as well but nope there is not not like 10 years ago when Atlas switchers were around.

Aussie money is just as good as USA money and nowadays shipping is very reliable, sellers take note shipping to Australia is not risky and yes it's pricey we understand that but we are good honest people, and costs doesn't stop me, I get parcels all the time but no switchers, sad but true.

Hi Daryl.

Roo. (Neville Rossiter).

Hi Nev,

Thanks for adding your expert input to the discussion as a longtime O scaler.

I hope to be in Perth later this year for another op session on the Yulan Valley.

Cheers Blakey

bob2 posted:

 Name something (other than a D&H Consolidation) that you cannot buy in O Scale?

Almost anything in steam in the roads in my signature.   

Rule292 posted:

emdalco01 posted:

This is probably a stupid question, but every retailer appears to have a glut of 3 rail locos for sale and a drought of 2 rail locos for sale, especially those fitted with DCC and sound.

Surely this proves there is a strong demand for more 2-rail locos to be produced.

Maybe if there's a retailer on the forum who could explain the situation because since Atlas closed their forum we haven't had the connection to manufacturing intel we once had. We also as modellers lost our voice.

This situation is making it very hard to stay in O Scale and especially 2-rail under the present circumstances.

There's plenty of 2-rail rollingstock to buy, but hardly any 2-rail locos to pull them.

Regards Daryl

It's an excellent question. 

Even worse than no 2 rail locos is no decent 2 rail track and switches to run the trains on.

I'll disagree with the no good 2 rail. Atlas track and switches have served me well for years. Micro Engineering track is quite good. There is a manufacturer of switches less expensive than Atlas (can't remember name). Now you may be a hand layer of track and switches and that is fine. I am not.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

emdalco01 posted:

This is probably a stupid question, but every retailer appears to have a glut of 3 rail locos for sale and a drought of 2 rail locos for sale, especially those fitted with DCC and sound.

Surely this proves there is a strong demand for more 2-rail locos to be produced.

Maybe if there's a retailer on the forum who could explain the situation because since Atlas closed their forum we haven't had the connection to manufacturing intel we once had. We also as modellers lost our voice.

This situation is making it very hard to stay in O Scale and especially 2-rail under the present circumstances.

There's plenty of 2-rail rollingstock to buy, but hardly any 2-rail locos to pull them.

Regards Daryl

Well I don't know where you shop but there are plenty of 2 rail diesel's out there. Are you looking in the right places? 

Norms o scale in Maine.

Allegheny Scale Models in NJ

Just Trains in Delaware

P&D hobby Shop in Michigan

American Scale Models in WI

On the Left coast there's Peterson Supply Co, Public Delivery Track

Just Google o scale brass and there are a listing of dealers besides the huge amount on eBay as well as some on Amazon.

You missed Caboose Stop Hobbies, Cedar Falls, Iowa. He has a ton of two rail.

Dick