Will All MTH engines run on conventional power??

Yes

Yes again, and if you want to more easily use their numerous features, it would be great if you could get an MTH Z4000 transformer down the road. But you can run them with your ZW and it is possible to use many of the features using a ZW.

Thanks. All this fancy electronic stuff makes me more than nervous. In fact, to me this electronics is just plain aggravating. The only electronic aggravation I need is my computer, and that is bad enough. I run the trains to have fun, not problems.

Might just buy some MTH then.

Jeff

Everything factory-built to run on three rail 'O' track will run conventionally. Regardless of manufacturer, regardless of electronics. 

Edited 1/1/19

MTH DCS, any locomotive equipped with Lionel TrainMaster Command Control (TMCC), Lionel Legacy, or Lionel Lionchief Plus (separate-sale LC locomotives, not the ones included in starter sets). K-Line, Ready Made Toys, Williams/Williams by Bachmann (WBB), Atlas O, 3rd Rail (did I forget anyone else?) will all run conventional.

As mentioned in the next message below, the LionChief variant packaged in starter sets is a radio-controlled system that won't run without the remote included in the set. Any locomotive modified by their owners to operate under Aristo-Craft's Train Engineer radio-control system share this limitation (but you won't find any locomotives factory-equipped with this system)

There are a very small number of bottom-of-the-line Lionels made in the MPC era that had DC motors without a reverse unit. The original poster probably wasn't even thinking about those units, but even these can be made compatible by wiring a rectifier or low-end electronic E-unit between the motor and pickup rollers. In the latter case it can be an economic question of just how much you want to use the loco in question, as even a used Lionel E-unit obtained off Ebay may actually cost more than any of the old DC-only locos. 

(I have one of these locomotives--it literally cost $10 and has plastic wheels. I'm still mulling putting a $70  TMCC board in it just for giggles)

The only caveat with locomotives equipped with sound and/or command electronics on a layout powered by postwar transformers is that you might want to put in some sort of spike supression/fast-acting circuit breaker in your track power supply, as postwar circuit breakers are only there to protect the transformer, not any electronics that might be feeding on their output side.

---PCJ

RailRide posted:

Everything factory-built to run on three rail 'O' track will run conventionally. Regardless of manufacturer, regardless of electronics.

 

---PCJ

That is not true.

Lionel Lionchief will not run conventional.

Lionchief Plus will but plain old Lionchief will not.

You can run it if you have it as the only train on the track and turn the power up to 18 volts.

You can then control it with the remote.

Also the old DC Lionel locos wont run on AC. 

Garfield posted:

That is not true.

Lionel Lionchief will not run conventional.

Lionchief Plus will but plain old Lionchief will not.

You can run it if you have it as the only train on the track and turn the power up to 18 volts.

You can then control it with the remote.

Also the old DC Lionel locos wont run on AC. 

 

(exasperated sigh)

Re-wrote my initial comment.

---PCJ

Yes they will BUT if a PS-1 and/or PS-2 the battery must be good and charged.

Are the PS1/PS2 batteries something you have to buy from MTH, or off the shelf? Are those batteries even available anymore? 

 My assumption is that any MTH I buy will be older items, so, the battery would likely be old/dead.

Jeff,

I can't speak to substituting on PS2, but I would strongly recommend hunting up some BCR's for any Proto1 locos you're thinking of.  I installed BCRs in all of the Proto1 locos I was running, steam and diesel, and never had a problem in conventional mode.

Mike A

**Most important:  The electronics in your new loco will toast on your first derailment.  Definitely  take RailRide's advice on adding that fast acting circuit breaker.

yes you can purchase the batteries' from mth and there not that expensive and can last for many   Many years! they always have them in stock.  what is the item number of you mth engine that needs a battery! we will all try to help you ok

I do not own any MTH YET. Have thought about adding a few MTH to the collection, but was never quite sure about how they operate on conventional. They have an older FM H10-44 that I have had a longtime interest in, among others.

Jeff

All MTH locomotives will run conventionally. Don't use postwar transformers to power modern trains. If you fry a circuit board because your postwar transformer circuit breaker didn't open fast enough you will feel less than stupid. Get a modern transformer from either MTH or Lionel. The"standard" of the industry for several years has been the MTH Z-4000. But if you must have Lionel there are several "bricks" and modern ZW models you can use safely with today's complex electronics. Use your postwar transformers for accessories and lights, not track power. 

Simple, short answer to your original question: YES, all MTH O gauge locomotives will operate with conventional AC power.

CIRCUIT BREAKERS DO NOT PROTECT ELECTRONICS!

Circuit breakers only protect the transformer. Even "Fast Acting" breakers will not trip in time to protect the electronics from a voltage spike caused by a derailment. The best way to protect the electronics of your engines and other operating equipment is with the use of TVS Diodes. These diodes absorb the voltage spike above the specified rated voltage on indicated on the diode. 

You can use any transformer you like. The postwar transformers should have additional circuit breaker mainly due to how slow they react. But always use TVS Diodes to protect the electronics from voltage spikes regardless of which transformer you use. TVS protection is dirt cheap, here's a good source for the part that will do the job well: DIGIKEY TVS DIODE

Hi H1000,

If we have BCRs in our MTH Proto 1 and 2 engines, do we still need the TVS Diodes you recommend?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe you are going to say Yes. Arnold

Arnold, Yes TVS is still needed.

There have have even been recommendations about install TVS protection in your locomotives. The idea being the TVS diodes are most effective when place as close as possible to the electronics you are trying to protect. Mine are placed on my power distribution strips right next to where the transformer leads are plugged in.

For as cheap as these things are, they can be placed in multiple points throughout your layout.

mowingman posted:

Thanks. All this fancy electronic stuff makes me more than nervous.

In my experience, the older MTH Loco-Sound engines are very nice conventional engines. Pre Loco-Sound (catalog # starts with "MT-") many are conventional horn/bell engines. 

H1000 posted:

Arnold, Yes TVS is still needed.

There have have even been recommendations about install TVS protection in your locomotives. The idea being the TVS diodes are most effective when place as close as possible to the electronics you are trying to protect. Mine are placed on my power distribution strips right next to where the transformer leads are plugged in.

For as cheap as these things are, they can be placed in multiple points throughout your layout.

H1000, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

I have 30 years of OGR and CTT magazines, and unless I missed it, I don't remember seeing any article about TVS Diodes and how they can protect our modern trains. I strongly recommend that you write an article about this subject and submit it to OGR. Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

H1000 posted:

Arnold, Yes TVS is still needed.

There have have even been recommendations about install TVS protection in your locomotives. The idea being the TVS diodes are most effective when place as close as possible to the electronics you are trying to protect. Mine are placed on my power distribution strips right next to where the transformer leads are plugged in.

For as cheap as these things are, they can be placed in multiple points throughout your layout.

H1000, what you say makes a lot of sense to me.

I have 30 years of OGR and CTT magazines, and unless I missed it, I don't remember seeing any article about TVS Diodes and how they can protect our modern trains. I strongly recommend that you write an article about this subject and submit it to OGR. Arnold

I'm not sure if the subject of voltage spikes was ever covered in the magazines. I do recall that the issue was talked about here on the forum when someone hooked up an oscilloscope to a transformer and recorded voltage spikes from trains briefly breaking contact with power rails under heavy load conditions, sometimes reading over 100 volts. Too short in duration to harm postwar electricals or their human operators, but enough to stress electronic components to eventually fail in an often unpredictable fashion. 3-Rail O Gauge was always an electrically rough-and-tumble environment. It's supposedly part of the reason DCC never really caught on in this corner of the hobby--it couldn't reliably deliver a signal amidst the sparking Pullmor motors and solenoid-driven accessories that were prevalent during its early-adopter phase. 

---PCJ