wiring question dcs / variable track

John,

If I run a jumpers to the variable track input that would power the input side.

Correct.

If I wire the track leads to the center of a double pole double throw switch, and then run the dcs to one side of the dpdt switch, and the variable track output to the other side of the dpdt switch, then I think that will do it without frying anything or creating any type of feed back loop.  Can someone please confirm this for me?

That's not necessary. You just need to wire the output of the TIU's Variable Channel directly to the tracks.

When you want to operate your DCS engines in Command mode:

• Press TR
• Select Variable 1
• Roll the thumbwheel to 18 volts
• Press ENG
• Run your DCS engines.

When you want to run in conventional using non-DCS engines:

• Press TR
• Select Variable 1
• Use the thumbwheel to control voltage.

If you want to run conventional, including running your DCS engines as conventional engines:

• Press Menu/System/DCS Setup and press the AOF soft key to turn the DCS signal off for all channels
• Press TR
• Select Variable 1
• Use the thumbwheel to control voltage.

When you're done:

• Press TR
• Select Variable 1
• Roll the thumbwheel to 0 volts or press TVZ
• Press Menu/System/DCS Setup and press the AON soft key to turn the DCS signal back on for all channels.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Wow - thanks Barry.

p.s. don't you sleep? 

John Z,

    This is one of the great things about DCS and the TR modes, of which there are actually 2, if you own the Z4K.  Sometime if you invest in one, there is another TR

mode that is operated with a side receiver on the Z4k transformer, opening up even more conventional engine running options, along with the TR mode Barry has just advised you how to use.  DCS can actually control both Conventional and remote control engines at the same time, even on the same track, if you understand how to

set things up.  DCS is a learning experience in itself, with both conventional and remote control operations from the same hand held remote.  Way cool stuff, once the owner understand how to operate it all the options, at the same time.

PCRR/Dave

John Z,

This was a great question, BUT.... WOW, that may have just changed how I wire my entire (future) layout.  I thought I had this down and ready to go, apparently I was wrong.  Glad you asked this.  My layout will be all DCS, but if I want to run conventional on any loop, I'd like to be able to.  Now I have to re-think this.

Mike, this pretty much just changed one of my fundamental thoughts on how it is done as well.  Plus, being able to run conventional on any loop, with the hand held remote, is great!  Right I just have two loops on a 4 x 8 sheet but plans for much more later as I learn more. I am looking forward to trying this out.

Dave, I knew there was a seperate way to do conventional running with a z4k, but I don't have one and will likely not be getting one any time soon.  I do however love that I can take the brick from a starter set and run the way Barry described!  Fortunately my starter sets were a little older so they came with 75 watt bricks instead of 50.  

Fyi - I made my own jumper to go from the barrel jack on the brick to the tiu.  All you need is a size M female barrel jack, got some fromthe local 'shack, two leads and a bit of solder.  The one I made myself was $3 or $4 total plus a little bit of time.

Thanks Barry, I'll print out your cheat seat so i can have it handy when i want to switch to conventional or turn off DCS signal which i already new. just was not sure how to control track voltage from remote, you mad it much clearer.

Thanks

Alan

Refining Barry's notes a tad, if you want to run non-DCS locos in conventional mode, like old Lionel, you don't have to bother turning off the DCS signal.  By leaving it on, you can also run a DCS loco in command mode, and a conventional loco, on the same loop.  But stay awake!

Okay I just played with this a bit. First off route the incoming power from the brick to both the fixed and variable input just like Barry said. I  tried to go just to the variable input and the remote kept saying out of rf range even though they were three feet apart.

I was running a williams geep, a lionel t-1, and a current starter set engine.  The cheap starter engine was hard to control because even at 5 volts it took off like shot.  The larger lionel t1 that needs more power to move was easier to control.  Overall its a neat feature but the thumb wheel is a little clumsy. 

Also I ran a ps3 engine as described without a problem.  I did have an issue with trying to get an engine out of the inactive list.  However now that I think about it, that engine has a bcr in it, so maybe I need to let it charge for a minute. I ran the power up to 18 volts, went to the engine list, and selected it from the inactive list.  Then I  tried to start it from the active list and it kept saying "engine not on track". I 'll try this one again later.  

Right now I am still thinking I will use a dpdt selector switch on the final layout, just to make the start up simpler and to have a way to kill track power without cycling the tiu.

jhz,

   Now you are starting to get it, and RJR is correct you can actually run both P2/P3 and conventional engines on the same track, at the same time once you understand how, and become quick enough to control both from the DCS hand held remote control.  Most people think this is pretty much a pain, so they seldom do it, however it can be done correctly.  I would run both my original Lionel Conventional 263E & my MTH P2 263E on the same 2nd level at the same time using the DCS hand held remote control, just to see it happen, now this is way cool stuff, to an old guy like me, I dreamed of being able to due this remote control stuff as a kid, now I can actually do it with my original Lionel Tin Plate and my Repro MTH Tin Plate also, on the same tracks.  Ya got to love this hobby.

PCRR/Dave

I  tried to go just to the variable input and the remote kept saying out of rf range even though they were three feet apart

That's because the TIU needs power for itself and it can only get that from the Aux. Power port or Fixed IN #1.

jhz, the starter engine takes off like a shot because the variable circuits, in reducing the voltage, drastically alter the AC wave form.  The alteration increases as the amount of reduction increases.  To minimize this, reduce the input voltage to the variables to the minimum you need to operate your DCS locos satisfactorily. 

As a note, this means that the voltage indicated on the remote will not be accurate, since that is calibrated for about 22 volts input.

Barry,

   As you taught me long ago the best way to power the TIU is thru the Aux port, I use the RS 18/24 power supply.  Barry I want to know if I used a wire slitter/adapter would the RS 18/24 power supply be powerful enough to power 2 or more TIU's at the same time, from a single RS power supply.  I have not tries this yet.

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

if I used a wire slitter/adapter would the RS 18/24 power supply be powerful enough to power 2 or more TIU's at the same time, from a single RS power supply

If you had no AIUs connected to any of the TIUs, you could possibly power more than one TIU with a single RS power supply.

Regardless, I wouldn't recommend doing so.

Barry,

   Please advise as to why you would not set up in this manner, is there an electrical problem with powering 2 TIU's off one RS power supply?  Or would this set up some kind of emergency shut down problem.

PCRR/Dave

Dave,

It's a matter of available amp supply.

The RS power supply is rated at 1.0 amp while the TIUs specifications call for 1.5 amps. The issue is that the 1.5 amp spec is for a TIU that has up to 5 AIUs connected to it. Each AIU gets its power from the same power supply as does the TIU itself. In this case, that would be the RS power supply.

The difficulty is in knowing exactly how much current (amps) the TIU itself requires. That answer would suggest how many TIUs could be powered from one RS supply simultaneously if there weren't any AIUs connected.

As will be pointed out in the 3rd edition of The DCS O Gauge Companion, I would not suggest using the RS supply to power any TIU to which AIUs are connected.

I use the R-S power supply for a TIU that has 3 AIUs connected, and have never had a problem.

I add that I do not have any ACC relays that would stay on.

Robert,

 and have never had a problem.

I'm very happy for you.

Try using the remote to turn on a Scene with 15 or 20 accessories at once and see if they all start working.

Barry,

   Thanks much for the info, and now that I do not use any AIU's any more for my switches, I do believe I can get away with powering dual TIU's from the one RS 18/24 power supply, if the emergency stop will carry thru both TIU's, when powered from the same RS power supply.  I did have to give up the scenes and the routes not having any AIU's, but on my smaller Christmas layouts I was will to eliminate them also.

Thanks again Barry I appreciate the education once again.

PCRR/Dave  

This is one of the most valuable and useful posts I have read in quite a while.  Using the instructions provided above, I am running two trains on the same track at the same time. 

Train #1 is a MTH PS 2.0 engine running in DCS mode

Train #2 is an Atlas AEM-7 conventional engine running of course... conventionally

Both trains are being controlled with the DCS remote.

Simply Awesome.

Thanks John Z for asking the question and Thanks to Barry for responding.

vr

Ron