I operate in HO, and set up temporary O scale layouts until I can build a permanent one. Now after using HO for many years, I find it easy to consider changing to N scale! In HO, there is a larger variety of items, and most are scale for reasonable prices, compared to some O scale items. Now with N scale, you have an even larger variety of items at (usually) even cheaper and reasonable prices. When I started, I might have went with N, but I already had some HO. With N, most items are manufactured that aren’t in HO, O, or G.
Some of the advantages of HO include being easier to move the equipment from place to place, and the more limited space needed to store items and boxes. Is it me are some of those scale, O-72 engines getting heavier... :-)
No. I need three rails to operate my trains!
Tom
It doesn't really matter what scale you are in. A model railroad can only be as long and wide as the space it is built in. You cram more trains or scenery into a given space in a small scale than you can in a larger scale. The choice of scale or gauge is up to individual preferences and their modeling goals.
I have a 3-rail layout at home and I am a member of club that has a HO, G and O 3-rail gauge layouts. I operate trains on all three gauges. All are reliable and are fun for different reasons. Enjoy whichever scale and gauge you choose. NH Joe
No, my O stuff was filling up the house, my wife said "take it outside", so I did. Now have over 300ft of G scale outdoors where I run passenger trains up to 24ft long. Funny thing, the O stuff is still in the house, it never left. I tell her it keeps me off the street.
Chris Sheldon
Been there, done that. Not worth the trouble, expense and headaches. Operating is hit or miss unless your doing only main line running. No good action cars or accessories either like in O, S or Standard.
Tin
LionelTin posted:Been there, done that. Not worth the trouble, expense and headaches. Operating is hit or miss unless your doing only main line running. No good action cars or accessories either like in O, S or Standard.
Tin
And my experiences have been TOTALLY opposite. I get MUCH better and SMOOTHER performance with today's state of the art HO models that ANY of the O scale engines I tried (which included an Atlas SW). Further, I can purchase a smooth running, great DCC/sound equipped engine (OEM installed DCC/sound) for less than $200, sometimes way less than that (if on sale/blowout). The detail on today's premier lines of RTR HO products simply have few equals regardless of the scale.
Here's a quick example. What you're looking at: A Bowser "Executive" CGW Baldwin DS-4-4-1000. It has factory installed DCC/Loksound "Baldwin" sound. There are details like windshield wipers, crew, airhoses, wire grabs, etc, etc. Performance and sound is incredible. The paint/striping/lettering work flawless. It will creep along at less than 1 scale MPH. I got this brand new for about $190.
Using Shinohara/Peco/Altas nickel silver track and switches, operation can be nearly flawless during shoving moves and general switching.
TENS of THOUSANDS of very satisfied HO modelers can't be wrong. HO is the leader in the hobby by a far stretch for many REASONS.
I tried both O scale and S scale for many years. Gave up and went back to HO. No way overall that either O or S can compare to the variety and quality found in HO.
Andre
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No... I transitioned to O from N nearly 20 years ago when, like others, I saw the proverbial handwriting on the wall for my detail work and wanted to work in a gauge that wasn't as 'fiddly' to me. Nothing against the many expert modelers in N and HO...
That said, I was also fortunate to have an enormous space (to me) for an O gauge layout...
I thought about it with the small layout I have with o scale. But I just like the big trains better, and they look more realistic to me on the track. I had problems with the command control aspect of running ho trains, and with mth dcs wifi, I get it. So, I give up space, but I run my o scale trains better. I'm enjoying my trains now, and for me, that's what it's all about.
My advice (which is worth exactly what you pay for it) is to build half the layout you think you want. Don't overfill your space, and keep it simple...or at least less complicated than your grand vision.
Git rid of half, and when you are pondering over which half, the answer is always the half that doesn't fit--because it is what will cause you trouble and leave you feeling unfulfilled.
This is especially true for anyone who gains double the space they thought they had for a layout, whether through a scale switch, or a move or some other occurrence.
Jeff C
@Prairie Land Junction has it right ... whatever scale results in the most enjoyment!
I was invested in a lot of O-stuff from childhood and therefore defaulted to the gauge without much thought. However, were I to start fresh, I might consider HO or perhaps N simply because of the space:action ratio.
I visited Caboose (Hobbies) in Denver yesterday and was reminded that for every aisle of O-stuff, there are two for HO and 2 for N.
One reason that modern HO and N scale equipment runs extremely well is that most modelers in these scales operate their trains. This equipment would not sell if it didn't run well. Reliable slow speed is necessary for switching, etc.
On the other hand, most O gauge people that I know seldom if ever run their trains. O gauge people seem to be collectors rather than operators. Therefore, it doesn't matter if most engines aren't reliable at slow speeds, etc. The manufacturers know this. The perfect buyer is someone who buys a high end train and puts it on a display shelf. I think that this is one reason that those of us who want to operate O gauge 3-rail trains sometimes have more reliability problems. Another reason is that the 3-rail train world has competing command control systems - DCS vs. Legacy. You just have to look at all the posts on this forum about problems with both of these systems and the issues with getting them to work together.
The HO and N scale world is unified with DCC. The bugs have been worked out over many years and DCC is extremely reliable on all layouts big and small.
Look at photos of a HO or N scale layout room and a similar size room with O gauge trains. What is the primary difference between the displays? What I see is that most O gauge rooms have display shelves full of trains that are almost never run. I have many friends whose trains have never run an inch. I don't see many display shelves in HO or N scale layout rooms. Those trains are on the layout or in staging yards ready for their next run.
NH Joe
New Haven Joe posted:....most O gauge people that I know seldom if ever run their trains. O gauge people seem to be collectors rather than operators.... most O gauge rooms have display shelves full of trains that are almost never run... I don't see many display shelves in HO or N scale layout rooms. Those trains are on the layout or in staging yards ready for their next run.
My interests in the O scale hobby, and the majority of my hobby time, is spent primarily on layout-building of track, structures and scenery. Therefore, my trains may get run somewhat less frequently than HO operators, but they do get run often, and the time split between building and running would be the same if I were working in HO. I do have display shelves with beautiful O scale trains whose size and detail, in my opinion, make them more impressive and worthy of display than a corresponding HO model. Having said that, I appreciate good modeling in all scales.
MELGAR
New Haven Joe posted:One reason that modern HO and N scale equipment runs extremely well is that most modelers in these scales operate their trains. This equipment would not sell if it didn't run well. Reliable slow speed is necessary for switching, etc.
On the other hand, most O gauge people that I know seldom if ever run their trains. O gauge people seem to be collectors rather than operators. Therefore, it doesn't matter if most engines aren't reliable at slow speeds, etc. The manufacturers know this. The perfect buyer is someone who buys a high end train and puts it on a display shelf. I think that this is one reason that those of us who want to operate O gauge 3-rail trains sometimes have more reliability problems. Another reason is that the 3-rail train world has competing command control systems - DCS vs. Legacy. You just have to look at all the posts on this forum about problems with both of these systems and the issues with getting them to work together.
The HO and N scale world is unified with DCC. The bugs have been worked out over many years and DCC is extremely reliable on all layouts big and small.
Look at photos of a HO or N scale layout room and a similar size room with O gauge trains. What is the primary difference between the displays? What I see is that most O gauge rooms have display shelves full of trains that are almost never run. I have many friends whose trains have never run an inch. I don't see many display shelves in HO or N scale layout rooms. Those trains are on the layout or in staging yards ready for their next run.
NH Joe
I am first an foremost an operator. I'll admit that I'll run the same freight consist for weeks (swapping engines) since I don't have a yard large enough to store even a 1/4 of my collection. I've been working on my layout for over a decade and it still has quite a few scenery projects before I would consider it "done". Part of the reason for the delay is that I spend at least 75% of my time running trains. Another reason is that I've modified/expanded my track plan a few times. Each time requires some undoing of "finished" scenery items. I can't afford to buy Premier trains new so most of my collection is second-hand from eBay. Most of those engines have low or no run time which may support NH Joe's theory that most O gaugers collect instead of run. 95% of the second hand cars and engines I've purchased work fine and have been reliable. I run so much that I actually have to do maintenance like replace traction tires, light bulbs, grease and oil and a occasional loose/worn wire. I've also done some PS-1 to PS-2 upgrades. Most of these tasks can be performed on O-Scale trains without magnification or special little tools.
I run both with HO in a secondary role stacked above the O gauge layout. Like so many I grew up on Lionel and Marx then transitioned to HO as a young adult. Back then HO was more involved with scale operations than sounds while O gauge had action gadgets and sounds (not to mention speed) that were perhaps more interesting to children.
With age, and I've accrued plenty of it, I came back to O gauge as it's just easier for shaky old hands and poor eyesight; besides the action gadgets are really a lot of fun. But I also have a large collection of HO which I enjoy.
Basically the two layouts which are shelf layouts are quite similar in plan with the O gauge about 40 inches off the floor and the HO 18 inches higher. Where there are tall mountains on the lower O gauge these in the background scene are shared with the HO which is essentially a loop that does not have the operating features of the O gauge.
I'm still trying to get HO kits built like I have a 25 year old Stuart set of Santa Fe A-B-B-A F-units and a 65 year old Pacific kit from Mantua that are still in their boxes. Getting them running is on my bucket list but so is riding 4 Corners on my Harley. Still having big dreams. I'm, also, adding trains to the O gauge as well. I recently added a pair of Williams Canadian Pacific, Train Masters with 72 foot streamline cars but after testing the look I am, turning from my original plan to duplicate the mid century Lionel F3 streamline set but pulled with Train Masters to a completely fantasized set because the standard height cars don't look well with those locomotives. So I'm testing the visual look of Santa Fe Hi-Level passenger cars which if this looks right I'll buy a set to strip, repaint, and letter for the CP; which as far as my research goes didn't use this style car in the 1950 time period that I sorta try to stick to-ish. I, also, am at a restoration of an old AMT set of aluminum Santa Fe streamliners (actually two sets) and trying to figure out if I want to modify the dome cars to fit the Lionel dome, or modify the Lionel dome to fit the cars, or make the tooling to produce duplicates of the original AMT domes. Plus there are more projects but, except for my wife, I expect we all get the point.
Bogie
Yes... been that way for YEARS with me. My O layout is in the style of classic postwar display, etc.. with all the accessories.
My HO is where I do my modeling
No! My trains are toy trains no matter how realistic many may look. HO is defintely not Toy Trains!
No, I have a hard enough time seeing the details on O gauge trains let alone HO gauge.
Larry
If I were a scale modeler i would go HO hands down. Being more of a post-war type guy, I wouldn't leave O gauge.
If I was starting over today with nothing more invested than my original Lionel set from the 1960s, I would definitely go HO. The broader curves required for HO operations mean you don't buy that much more additional space by trading down, but the better selection would be worth it.
My O gauge is a legacy of the years before my father's death when he and I were doing model railroads together. Because of those memories I am unwilling to part with my trains, and I have too much now to switch.
No, not a chance. O gauge is a throwback to my childhood. I still have the trains I had as a kid. It's all about memories. No HO memories here.
New Haven Joe posted:One reason that modern HO and N scale equipment runs extremely well is that most modelers in these scales operate their trains. This equipment would not sell if it didn't run well. Reliable slow speed is necessary for switching, etc.
On the other hand, most O gauge people that I know seldom if ever run their trains. O gauge people seem to be collectors rather than operators. Therefore, it doesn't matter if most engines aren't reliable at slow speeds, etc. The manufacturers know this. The perfect buyer is someone who buys a high end train and puts it on a display shelf. I think that this is one reason that those of us who want to operate O gauge 3-rail trains sometimes have more reliability problems. Another reason is that the 3-rail train world has competing command control systems - DCS vs. Legacy. You just have to look at all the posts on this forum about problems with both of these systems and the issues with getting them to work together.
The HO and N scale world is unified with DCC. The bugs have been worked out over many years and DCC is extremely reliable on all layouts big and small.
Look at photos of a HO or N scale layout room and a similar size room with O gauge trains. What is the primary difference between the displays? What I see is that most O gauge rooms have display shelves full of trains that are almost never run. I have many friends whose trains have never run an inch. I don't see many display shelves in HO or N scale layout rooms. Those trains are on the layout or in staging yards ready for their next run.
I can't disagree with a word of this, Joe.
I know a lot of O scale guys, almost all of them are 3-railers. Among them, not one runs their trains other than what another friend of mine refers to as the "Indy 500 with flanged wheels" method of operation. The only O scalers I know that run their trains or are into any operation other than full-throttle are narrow-gauge O scale guys.
I think Joe also makes an excellent case for why DCC was hammered out and works great in other scales, but not so much in O.
As for the display case concept, yeah, I've never seen a wall-size display case for anyone other than a O scale modeler. Yet their staples of 3-rail train rooms.
I would, however, also go so far as to say there's similar trend among brass collectors. They, too, don't generally care so much about how the stuff runs, v/s how it looks. they also are likely to have big display cases. A good friend of mine has a massive basement-filler layout in HO with a huge brass collection. he never runs trains, either. It's all best described as a parking lot for brass with scenery here and there...
I still have all my HO trains, I wouldn't have to buy anything new, I have that much stuff. I used to be a rivet counter, and I used to kitbash a lot. I was out of the hobby for 15 years or so, I never had a place for a layout. It was during that time we lost our local hobby shop, so, I wandered in the wasteland, and did other things like ride motorcycles.
When I decided to get back into model trains I chose "O" scale, for my eyes are not what they once were, and my hands not as steady. I don't feel I'd enjoy kitbashing and working with the small details like I used to. I grew up with both HO and O scale, I chose the latter because all the little details don't matter to me anymore. Although, I plan on doing some kitbashing in O scale eventually.
I've thought of having both, HO and O scale, O scale in the house upstairs and some HO in the garage in the corner, my wife said, Hey, that sounds cool! So, for now I look forward to having some O scale fun on the future layout upstairs. I need to do some necessary improvements, by adding more outlets in the two rooms, light fixtures, and painting. Once that's done, I can start some bench work.
Rusty
after getting used to the heft of o scale, no to HO
besides these older eyes have a tough time seeing em
Bill
leikec posted:My advice (which is worth exactly what you pay for it) is to build half the layout you think you want. Don't overfill your space, and keep it simple...or at least less complicated than your grand vision.
Git rid of half, and when you are pondering over which half, the answer is always the half that doesn't fit--because it is what will cause you trouble and leave you feeling unfulfilled.
This is especially true for anyone who gains double the space they thought they had for a layout, whether through a scale switch, or a move or some other occurrence.
Jeff C
I have to agree with Jeff. I run both 2rail and 3 rail scale and I love O scale.
Can't beat the sound and presence.
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I had a ho layout and the trains are nice but size and sound are just uninspiring. Although the sound is much improved it just don't have the presence of O.
I'm back to O now for the past couple of years and it is better then ever.
Dave
No way! I know HO has improved greatly since I left that scale. Yet, I prefer the heft of O scale. Trains that can be backed up through turnouts without that dreaded HO sound of wheels dragging on the ground as it derails all so easily.
HO is nice but different. Not near as much fun for kids as the owners generally don't let kids touch anything cause they're too busy counting rivets, to teach them anything.
Actually, if I wasn't heavily involved in O as my primary model railroading scale (obviously), and given the amount of layout space I now have available, I likely would devote that area to Z scale, which is another favorite of mine that I have been enjoying off and on since it was first introduced by Marklin many years ago. I could have one heck of a layout in Z, with scenery heavily dominating the layout, just like the real world environment dominates the prototype. And, yes, I still can see and work on Z, even at my advanced age and even though I have been wearing glasses since I was seven.
And there's always On30, another particular favorite of mine, with O scale models on HO track. I do plan/hope to include an On30 line on the layout I am currently building.
My first love would be American 00 - but too hard to find the stuff. If I had unlimited room, using the theory that trains are BIG, it would be G scale all the way. I am very happy with O though - thank you. If it is good enough for Sheldon then it is good enough for me!
LaramieJoe posted:@Prairie Land Junction has it right ... whatever scale results in the most enjoyment!
I was invested in a lot of O-stuff from childhood and therefore defaulted to the gauge without much thought. However, were I to start fresh, I might consider HO or perhaps N simply because of the space:action ratio.
I visited Caboose (Hobbies) in Denver yesterday and was reminded that for every aisle of O-stuff, there are two for HO and 2 for N.
That is good to know.
Also Blackstone models makes some excellent diecast steam engines with sound if you can find them. (HOn3)
I would be very tempted by HOn3 if Blackstone came out with some non-DRGW steamers, especially if they produced a 8-18c 4-4-0 or some California narrow gauge.
Jeff C
Michael Hokkanen posted:My first love would be American 00 - but too hard to find the stuff. If I had unlimited room, using the theory that trains are BIG, it would be G scale all the way. I am very happy with O though - thank you. If it is good enough for Sheldon then it is good enough for me!
It's too bad that TT scale never took off. If it had, I have a sneaking feeling that I would be big into it. Instead, I've been big into N-scale for the last 15~20 years, with a little dab of HO. Regardless, I'd still probably still be getting into some O just like I've been doing now for the past few years.
nope
AGHRMatt posted:Also, hearing "That's AWESOME!" vs. "That's cute" when they see Big Trains with BIG SOUND is really rewarding.
Yep, gotta agree with that.
I was in O scale from childhood through high school. Then I left the hobby for a while. Got back into it in my 30's and did give much thought to any other scale than O, because that's what I knew, and was amazed by how far the scale had come along since I left it. I jumped back in head first. In retrospect I may have switched scales had I given it any thought, one based on the space needed to build the layout I envision, and two the lack of accessories/buildings...ect, in O scale. I want to make a more modern era layout, which requires me to scratch build a lot of stuff, which is fun, but sometimes it's nice to just buy something pre-made! Ten years back into the hobby it's too late to switch, too much invested already.
leikec posted:I would be very tempted by HOn3 if Blackstone came out with some non-DRGW steamers, especially if they produced a 8-18c 4-4-0 or some California narrow gauge.
Yeah, if someone had made a ET&WNC ten-wheeler that is as good as the Bachmann On30 one (in terms of looks and how well it runs) in HOn3, I probably would be modeling in HO right now as I could model bigger scenes and have way more stuff available (and be able to model the 3-rail tracks on that RR, as well). It was the prototype I wanted to model to start with, not so much the scale.
All that said, it worked out really well for me. I'd not given O a serious look before those On30 locomotive came out. I never looked back and am very happy with how it all turned out.
But still, if someone did make an affordable ET&WNC Baldwin 4-6-0 in HOn3? Yeah, I'd probably buy one to stick under glass (which is exactly what I said I'd do with the Bachmann On30 one, and look where I am today).
I was going to have two layouts, HO and O side by side and did build a small HO layout in a different house which I still have but never run. Then I decided to expand my O into the space reserved for HO. I still have quite a bit of HO stored and I'm getting old enough that I now doubt that I'll ever do anything with it.
I have way too much O to consider going to HO exclusively but the grass is greener on the other side of the fence so I wish I had never got into O.
My layout isn't completed and all I ever do is display running. If I did have HO I doubt I would do much switching so it would be display running with it too.
