Does the Lionel PRR T1 from 2000 have any real operating issues?

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September 13, 2012 1:24 PM

...and if so, what might they be?  I'm aware that it needs cruise but are there any gear mesh/alignment problems that preclude it being a good runner?

How are the sounds?  We have the N&W Class A from the same catalogs and it sounds great.

 

 

The Appalachian, Tampa, & Santa Fe

Headquartered in the western NC Mountains

 

Agent website -  http://www.beverly-hanks.com/agents/shopkins

 
 
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September 13, 2012 1:52 PM

Watch out for broken flywheels! They seem to snap on this loco and may make your $500.00 + loco into a screaming bullet if using TMCC.

 

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September 13, 2012 1:53 PM

The blind drvers are wide and flat (not beveled), they will short out over most turnouts (switches).  Otherwise no opertional problems other than lack of cruise you mentioned.

 

PRR by Lionel

Eastern PA Mountains, between Oley and Boyertown

 
 
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September 13, 2012 2:51 PM

Sam, 

 

All the issues stated above is true. The sounds are not that great either. My preference would to buy the MTH version and upgrade it to ps2 or you could wait for Lionel or MTH to re- issue it. 

 
 
 
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September 13, 2012 3:01 PM

Broken fly wheels was not a problem with the scale t-1.  That was a problem with the first edition of the LIONmaster T-1.

 

I have the Lionel scale t-1 and I really like this engine.  I upgraded it with cruise using an err board.  It was a simple swap of the motor controller board.  The only issue is the middle drivers.  They are not beveled and can short out on switches.  I took my t1 apart and cut a bevel on the middle drivers and I do not have any issues with it.  It can creep through my Ross 072 switches without a hitch.  Sounds are decent but smoke is not that great.  I may upgrade the smoke unit at some point.  Its a very heavy engine.  It can really highball too since it has large drivers.

 
 
 
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September 13, 2012 3:06 PM

I have this engine and love it.  I don't have the wide driver issue because I have very wide radius switches.

 

Joe, what ERR board did you use and how much did it cost?  Does it use a sticker on the flywheel for timing?

 

John Meixel
TCA 89-29098
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Yogi Berra

 
 
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September 13, 2012 3:29 PM

I have been eyeing this engine for quite some time. Had a friend bring his over and ran it on the layout. It had a great steam boat whiste, iconic looks, nice paint. I have regular Ross and gargrave switches; radius 100 I think. So I did not see any shorts. Bummer items were; little smoke, chuff sounds were less than OK, no cruise, so watch those grades. Oh and extremely heavy! Watch those bridges and trestles.
 

Last edited by J Daddy September 13, 2012 3:34 PM
 
 
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September 13, 2012 3:52 PM

Since it doesn't have "Cruise Control", why would a broken flywheel cause sudden acceleration?
 
Originally Posted by prrhorseshoecurve:

Watch out for broken flywheels! They seem to snap on this loco and may make your $500.00 + loco into a screaming bullet if using TMCC.

 

 
 
 
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September 13, 2012 3:55 PM

ERR uses counter EMF for speed control.  No tapes or tach sensors are needed.

 

Joe, what ERR board did you use and how much did it cost?  Does it use a sticker on the flywheel for timing?

 

Avatar sanitized for your protection. 

 
 
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September 13, 2012 4:05 PM

Cool!

 

John Meixel
TCA 89-29098
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Yogi Berra

 
 
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September 13, 2012 5:01 PM

I was able to use the cruise commander M.  Its a direct replacement for the motor driver board.  Its a real easy swap out.  And like Marty said, it monitors the EMF for speed control.  It runs real sweet with cruise control.

 

The board was 89.95.  You have to get the following kit:

Cruise Commander M Kit for MB-036 / 089
     - Steamer kit for wireless tether


You will also have to upgrade your r2lc to version 8.  I believe that engine came with revision 7.

 
Last edited by Joe Fermani September 13, 2012 5:07 PM
 
 
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September 13, 2012 5:20 PM

Thanks for the tips!

 

 

John Meixel
TCA 89-29098
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Yogi Berra

 
 
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September 13, 2012 7:11 PM

I have one very nice looking but the smoke output is poor and it hates Atlas switches!

Looks nice on the shelf.

 

Gunny

 

Member since 9/11/2002

 
 
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September 13, 2012 10:43 PM

Thanks guys,  I have one departing OH tomorrow and am really looking forward to it.

Is the smoke 'repairable' with the tip shown on Lionel's site?

Several have mentioned the chuffs being sub par. Would the reed switch help or is the actual sound bad?

Another question if I may - why hasn't reissued this beast in RS5 or Legacy in the past 12 years?

 

 

The Appalachian, Tampa, & Santa Fe

Headquartered in the western NC Mountains

 

Agent website -  http://www.beverly-hanks.com/agents/shopkins

 
 
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September 13, 2012 10:55 PM

I would love a step by step fix on how to the bevel the drivers...I have this locomotive and I can only run it on my upper loop without switches. I love the whistle.

Scott Smith

 
 
 
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September 13, 2012 11:12 PM

I have seen two copies of this engine operate satisfactorily as is on both Gargraves and Ross Turnouts that were the 100's or larger numbered turnouts  .  Folks that seemed to have the problem with driver shorting seemed to be running on turnouts with a curve in the design, such as an 072 . I believe it also ran ok on Lionel switches.

 

As to the rerun question, I was thinking that this locomotive was one that might have been a subject in the MTH-Lionel litigation and settlement of some years past. There was a story about how the parts for this loco were made in Korea and sent to the US for assembly as the litigation got started.

 

LIRR Steamer

 
 
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September 14, 2012 8:52 AM

My T1 looks and runs great.  My only issue is no cruise which I will add with ERR.  The sounds are OK for an engine this old.  I don't care about smoke.  I only use it for a few minutes, mostly to show visitors, and then turn it off.  I don't like breathing it from any engine.  I'm trying to limit any future health challenges.

 

John Meixel
TCA 89-29098
"Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded." Yogi Berra

 
 
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September 14, 2012 9:24 AM

Curious, how many chuffs per rev on the Lionel model? 

 

The prototype just like a simple articulated would be more often then not some cadence of eight. Only four when both sets of engines came into perfect sync.

 
 
 
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September 14, 2012 9:27 AM

Heres Johns video His seems to run and smoke well.

 

 

 

 

"But you don't want to be bamboozled. You don't want to be led down the primrose path! You don't want to be conned or duped. Have the wool pulled over your eyes. Hoodwinked! You don't want to be taken for a ride. Railroaded!"

 

 

Last edited by RickO September 14, 2012 9:35 AM
 
 
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September 14, 2012 12:42 PM

My t1 runs perfectly quiet.  My only issue is the smoke.  I redid the wicking and it still smokes poor.  Based on the video, I probably have a bad smoke resistor.   I'll either replace the smoke resistor or put in a lionel smart smoke unit so it puffs.

 

I would love a step by step fix on how to the bevel the drivers...I have this locomotive and I can only run it on my upper loop without switches. I love the whistle.

 

To bevel the drivers, I would assume the proper way would be to pull the wheels and put them on a lathe.  I did not want to send the engine out so I improvised.  I stripped the locomotive down to its frame and wheels.  I then used a dremel with a grinding bit attached and put it against each blinder driver.  I then turned the wheels by hand while holding the dremel steady.  I got a nice bevel on each wheel.

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Last edited by Joe Fermani September 14, 2012 12:50 PM
 
 
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September 14, 2012 1:06 PM

Hi,  I have this engine and do not run it because of the shorting problem.  I was wondering why did you bevel the inside of the driver instead of the outside?  Why didn't you bevel both sides?  Does the inside bevel solve the problem?

 

Thanks.  Joe

 
 
 
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September 14, 2012 1:09 PM

Since I beveled the wheels, I have had no issues running the engine.  I use Ross 072 switches and it clears them all.  You have to bevel the inside of the wheel to prevent the wheel from touching other rails as it crosses a switch.  The outside of the wheel is not an issue.  Its only the inside that you have to worry about.

 
 
 
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September 14, 2012 2:12 PM

What a nice job Joe - thanks for posting your photos and explanation. I'll have to see if we encounter any difficulty here. We have a couple of Gargraves regular switches and will be adding two wyes soon on our club layout.

 

 

The Appalachian, Tampa, & Santa Fe

Headquartered in the western NC Mountains

 

Agent website -  http://www.beverly-hanks.com/agents/shopkins

 
 
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September 14, 2012 2:15 PM

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the fact that this loco has the WRONG tender!

Yup, Lionel used the S2 Turbine tender on this chooch, and there's not too may

ways to hide it.  I thought about making a diaphragm out of electrical tape to

run from the top down on both sides, to cover the notch in the tender wrapper,

but never got around to it...primarily because the Sunset 3rd PRR T1 is a more

accurate piece!  Still have my Sunset; the Lionel was gone by 2002!

 
 
 
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September 14, 2012 6:44 PM

Joe,  Thanks for the response to my questions.  One other question.  Is the only way to gain access to the drivers as shown in the photos is take the engine entirely apart?  

 

This looks like a daunting project.  I am good at taking stuff apart.  I am not so good at getting it back together.  Let me modify that.  I get it back together but it doesn't always work the way it did before I took it apart.

 

I will have to get the engine out of its box under the layout and take a look at it.  Thanks for information.

 

Joe

 
 
 
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September 14, 2012 7:24 PM

Stripping the engine was easier for me.  With everything off, there was no chance of damaging anything when I was grinding the wheels down.  With the frame fully exposed, I was able to put the frame in my vise to hold it upside down.  I then used one hand to hold the dremel and the other to turn the wheels.  The T1 is actually a simple loc to take apart.  Like I stated above, the correct way would be to have the wheels pulled and put on a lathe.  Since I was doing grinding, I didn't want any stray metal getting caught in the rest of the loc.  By stripping it apart, I only had to clean the frame and wheels when I was done to ensure no metal shavings were left.

 

Joe

 
Last edited by Joe Fermani September 14, 2012 7:34 PM
 
 
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September 17, 2012 1:43 AM

I owned one new in the box.  One of the few scale steamers made in USA.  However the diecast parts were cast and some were also decorated in Korea.  The black paint on the wheels was chipping off in small round pinhead sized flakes...due to the diecast outgassing...very common with all the Lionel Korea diecast pieces. 

 

~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, LOTS, NASG, MTHRRC.

Last edited by Mike W. September 17, 2012 3:25 AM
 
 
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September 17, 2012 2:25 AM

hello guys and gals............

What is die-casting "outgassing" and could this be causing the boiler casting to have blisters on it ?

 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

 
 
 
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September 17, 2012 3:16 AM

Yes...that most definitly causes blisters on the casting.  See pics of my 1990-93 Lionel Korean made Turbine and Southern Mikado.  The maroon on the Turbine tender is the worst by far.  Must be some tough paint.
 
Also pics of same problem on a diecast model car.
 
When I first pulled the two Lionel Engines out from my closet (prized possesions my parents had given me) I was completely heart broken at what I found.
 
Going forward I check all Korean made diecast items.
 
Outgassing...the diecast is finished and washed in a chemical bath.  If not properly heat treated these chemicals remain trapped in the porous texture of the diecast metal...slowly working out long after the shell has been painted.  My Pennsy Burro Crane frame (1990) did the same thing.
 
This has also plagued the diecast car industry.
 
This is different from diecast rot...where the diecast undergoes a chemical reaction due to acids trapped in the casting and crumbles apart.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Tiffany:

hello guys and gals............

What is die-casting "outgassing" and could this be causing the boiler casting to have blisters on it ?

 

the woman who loves toy trains

Tiffany

 

Diecast Car Blisters - 2

Diecast Car Blisters - 3

Lionel 18010 - 2

Lionel 18010 - 4

Lionel 18010 Southern Mikado - 1

Lionel 18010 Southern Mikado - 2

Lionel 18010 Southern Mikado - 3

 

~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, LOTS, NASG, MTHRRC.

Last edited by Mike W. September 17, 2012 3:26 AM
 
 
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September 18, 2012 12:27 AM

I have seen it right away...or 15 years later.  Yes casting out of Brass or Aluminum solves the problem.  And I am surprised those two metals aren't used across the board as they are softer and the dies are cheaper to make.

 

~Michael TCA, LCCA, TTOS, LOTS, NASG, MTHRRC.

 
 
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October 1, 2012 7:47 PM

To Joe Fermani - It worked!!!  I beveled the drivers of my T1 as you suggested.  It now runs through my Atlas 0-72 switches without shorting out.  Thanks for this great tip!!!!  The engine is back in action after sitting under the layout for a couple of years.

 

I didn't bother to take the engine apart as you suggested.  I put it upside down in a foam cradle and ran the engine using alligator clips to power the engine from a transformer.  The engine will run upside down in conventional mode without the tender attached.   I used a dremel with a carbide bit to bevel the drivers while the engine was running in the cradle.  

 

I carefully cleaned all the the very small metal shavings from the underside of the engine using a soft paint brush and a magnet.  This seems to have worked OK.  At least the engine doesn't have any issues with the shavings that I can see.  

 

I first tried beveling the drivers using a Dremel grinding stone.  The steel drivers ground down the stone and dust went everywhere.  This is not the way to do it.  

 

A friend suggested using a carbide grinding bit for steel.  I found a Dremel number 9901 tungsten carbide cutter at the Home Depot.  It made short work of cutting the bevel.  The 9901 cost about $10 but it was worth it.

 

Thanks again Joe for this great tip on how to solve the T1 driver shorting problem

 

Best wishes,  Joe Barker

 

 

 

 
 
 
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October 1, 2012 8:53 PM

Hey Joe,

 

Glad it worked for you.  Its a great running engine.  Try an err board in it.  It can really crawl!

 
 
 
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October 1, 2012 9:20 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Barker:

To Joe Fermani - It worked!!!  I beveled the drivers of my T1 as you suggested.  It now runs through my Atlas 0-72 switches without shorting out.  Thanks for this great tip!!!!  The engine is back in action after sitting under the layout for a couple of years.

 

I didn't bother to take the engine apart as you suggested.  I put it upside down in a foam cradle and ran the engine using alligator clips to power the engine from a transformer.  The engine will run upside down in conventional mode without the tender attached.   I used a dremel with a carbide bit to bevel the drivers while the engine was running in the cradle.  

 

I carefully cleaned all the the very small metal shavings from the underside of the engine using a soft paint brush and a magnet.  This seems to have worked OK.  At least the engine doesn't have any issues with the shavings that I can see.  

 

I first tried beveling the drivers using a Dremel grinding stone.  The steel drivers ground down the stone and dust went everywhere.  This is not the way to do it.  

 

A friend suggested using a carbide grinding bit for steel.  I found a Dremel number 9901 tungsten carbide cutter at the Home Depot.  It made short work of cutting the bevel.  The 9901 cost about $10 but it was worth it.

 

Thanks again Joe for this great tip on how to solve the T1 driver shorting problem

 

Best wishes,  Joe Barker

 

 

 

Joe, you sure dodged a bullet by doing it the way you did. As the microscopic metal particles swirled around the cradle, how many of them went into either the motor (highly magnetic) or running gear (well greased bearings)? And Joe Fermani, have you ever seen anybody actually chuck up one of these drivers in a lathe? Where on the driver did they let the chuck dogs attach themselves? I do remember a thread on this forum from a member who would re-shape your 3 rail drivers into scale size.

 

Long ago in my machine shop days, I remember seeing an internally expanding spindle being used on some kind of wheel. The work wasn't being done with a tool bit. It was being ground into shape, similar to what you guys are doing. By using the spindle, there was minimal runout. Jeez, I can imagine my little Bridgeport #3 speed lathe sitting on a bench in the corner of my work space...............Wishful thinking.

 
 
 
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