For me personally its the availability or lack there of locomotives. Any of the Lionel engines would have to be converted. Cars are easy to switch back and forth, but the engines are a whole different ball game. Sure Atlas, MTH, and 3rd Rail sell 2R engines... but I own A LOT of Lionel engines too. I wouldn't even know where to start on a conversion, nor do I want to.

Pdxglide,

 

Several things, in years gone past the middle 3rd rail has made layouts easier to wire

due to polarity of outside rails being + and middle rail being -, DCC has negated most of this.

For me, when you model in 3 rail you a capturing the nostalgia of toy trains, with

operating accessories, big sounds from the trains running over the 3 rail tracks, I love

it!

2 rail to me is when you are modeling in scale, recreating a authentic railroad scene's.

 

My permanent layout is 2 rail, my 3 rail trains are for the floor of the house, they get set up and taken down multiple times per year, I love them both!

 

ncng

I think to some degree it is the chicken and the egg scenario. If more people knew about 2 rail then maybe more people would choose 2 rail, if more people choose 2 rail then more stuff 2 rail would be made, if more 2 rail stuff got made then more people would know about 2 rail etc.......

After trying to get into O Scale over the year 2014,I started buying for 3 rail. But as time went on,I just couldn't go with the large flanges on the wheels. I converted over to 2 rail.My biggest problem was finding diesels in 2 rail as the market is geared for 3 rail as 3 railers make up the biggest share of the O Scale market. This availability problem lends itself to rolling stock as well,but the problem is not so bad to take care of here,as the trucks need to be changed out for 2 rail operation as well as the couplers. I'm told on this forum,that the 3 rail trucks can be resold & almost cover the cost of the 2 rail conversion. Atlas makes 2 rail rtr trucks in several makes according to your era of modeling. On the MTH trucks,they can carefully be disassembled & the axles replaced with scale axles,while still using the side frames.The Public Delivery Track,a large O Scale hobby shop,will convert 3 rail rolling stock to 2 rail for $3-$5 added to the cost of a 3 rail car.The diesels are the biggest problem for me,as I started out saying.Atlas made GP15S in CSX & Chessie in both 2&3 rail models. The 3 rail are still readily available from many sellers,but the conversion from 3-2 rail is VERY costly if you can find someone to do that for you. The electrical system has to be reworked to pick up for the 2 rail electrical change on the 3 rail models & I'm told by many,the dolllars spent aren't worth the resulting finished product.MTH is your best bet for loco's as they make loco's in their Premier Line of products,which have a switch that you simply throw that makes the locomotive 2 rail ready. You still have to clip a few wires to disconnect the electrically operated coupler function used in 3 rail,so you don't accidentally hit that button on your remote which I'm told could cause shorts.I have to sell the best of my HO 30 year collection to get into O scale as I have no income anymore as I had a stroke in 2012 that I came out of nicely but as I been Epileptic for 46 years,I couldn't buy medication as well as pay into Social security at the same time,so I'm told I'm not eligible for disability.I'm not putting this in for sympathy,but rather to explain why my HO sales have to pay for the change to O scale. The HO goes for pennies on the dollar on items I paid $100s for originally & people want to steal it from you for nothing. So it's come time to accept the problem &sell out my O Scale.I have roughly 90 sections of used Atlas flextrack that range in the 36-38" lengths & 10 sections of Old Pullman flex that I'm guessing runs 36" without measuring. The Old Pullman looks almost new except for nail holes in the ties used for mounting.The Atlas has nail holes but it faired worse. It's great for my needs,but it has ties on some sections that the plastic spikes broke loose,leaving rail. This is easily fixed by respiking with metal spikes using the existing ties or wood ties if you choose. Extra tie stripes were sold in this package deal so I replaced some of these broken ties but some flex still has this problem. I myself would ignore many areas with small areas of breakage. Of the 2 bundles of 10 sections each I unpackaged,this problem is very minimal or nonexistent on most sections. I made it sound worse than it is so you'd be aware of problem areas. Then this was on a layout so being curved,you have some sections with long rails on 1 end or side, as the case may be,which is to me no problem.The modeler that used the track must've had a mountain scene too,as 10 sections of flex are painted white. I was going to cover the rails & spray these brown or black,but never got that far. Cost of the track is $7 per section,plus shipping. I paid $700 & $44 shipping which was $88 but the seller split the cost with me.I have decent inventories of 3 rail & 2rail modern freight as I model roughly the 1990-2015 era,though some pieces would fall into the 70s era. I know this doesn't answer your main question of preference of 2 rail over 3. The only thing here I can say on this topic,is it looks prototypical & the scale wheels with rotating bearing caps can't be beat. Wish I could've went to O Scale for the beautiful size,but there's no use beating myself up,what is is,&that's it.1 other advantage of O scale 2 rail,is I can use my HO ground throw switchstands with rotating targets to throw my 2 rail O switches,while in 3 rail I would've had to buy new O scale throws. So there's another advantage.The availability of products isn't there in O Scale either. You have to identify the types of rolling stock & loco's you want & see if it's on the market. Then see if you'll be happy with the available products & lack of unavailability.Hope this helps.Al Hummel

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 4:34 AM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:


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| Subject: 2 rail vs. 3 rail ? By: Pdxglide In: Train Forums / 2-Rail SCALE | |

hey everybody, Im sure there is a very simple answer to the following question, I just dont know it so if somebody could tell me I'd appreciate it. What is the Downside to modeling 2 rail over 3 rail? I'm guessing there is a big downside/trade off to modeling 2 rail over 3 because it seems to me I see way more layouts in 3 then in 2.  2 rail obviously looks better (imo) and prototypical so if theyre both the same size why do people choose to go with the 3 rail look over the 2???? I've always modeled HO and starting to learn about O Scale.   Thank you to all who respond.     View This Topic
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I think a lot of people that started with 3 rail lionel as kids do not even know that 2 rail O exists.    And if they do, they they think it is some sort of exotic rare stuff.   That leads to the opinion that it is not available, there are no products, there is not this, not that etc.    

 

Reality is that there is not as much 2 rail as 3 rail, but it is very much available when you do a little research.     There are O scale predominently 2 rail shows around the country where you can find all sorts of things.   There are dealers that sell mail order and local hobby shops (yes a few still exist).    But O 2 rail is much more like 2 rail HO or N or other scales.    It takes more work to get a layout together as it does in those scales.    Generally in 2 rail, people use flex track or handlay as in the smaller scales.   In Todays world there is much more ready to run, but there are still a lot of kits available both used and floating around and painting and lettering your equipement is a skill worth learning.

 

Some might say, the curves have to be too big.   That is partially correct, but most equipment can be modified to work on smaller curves even as much as 36 inch radius.

 

So in my opinion a lot of the disadvantages are based on a lack of knowledge and skill, rather than fact.    

 

O 2 rail is more for model railroading while 3 rail seems to be more of collector endeavor based on buying RTR stuff.

Pick your favorite freight car.  Buy one in 2-rail, and one in 3-rail.  Buy a short hunk of track for each.

 

Stare at them for a while.  If you start to like the looks of large flanges, a center rail, and giant couplers, go with 3-rail.  There is no longer any other rational reason for starting out in 3-rail.

 

Opinion.

IMO availability of equipment is not an issue - if you don't need instant gratification.  I converted to O scale 2 rail from HO back in 1971 and was welcomed in to an informal  DC area group which include some very talented modelers that were ready to share their techniques and lessons learned. Considering both new and used products on the market, our options have never been better.  Over the years I've purchased perhaps 50% of my O scale 2 rail locomotives and cars second hand at regional 2 rail shows like O Scale West(Feb 5-7 Santa Clara, CA, Chicago March Meet (Mar 13-15 Lombard IL), and the Strasburg Train Show (Apr 10, Strasburg, PA), and more recently on eBay and the Yahoo O Scale Yard Sale.  While the selection of modern diesels is broader in 3 rail, the variety of previously produced steam, electric and 1st generation diesels (largely done in brass)  will blow your mind..  It will take some hunting to round out a roster -  but I've found with patience and a little hands on work I could assemble a very complete (PRR  transition era in my case) roster with a variety of prototype freight and passenger cars exceeding that offered in ready to run 3 rail. 

 

Ed Rappe

the middle 3rd rail has made layouts easier to wire due to polarity of outside rails being + and middle rail being -

Not exactly. There is no positive or negative in A-C operated toy trains. But your point is taken:

 

The advantage of three rails, with the hot in the extra rail in the middle, and the return on both outer rails, is that you do not need to provide extra logic (either manual, with toggle switches, or automatic, with relays) when you create reverse loops.  In a layout that has no reverse loops, this is not an issue, and two-rail wiring is just as simple as three-rail wiring.  (We discount 2-rail frogs in this discussion; that is a topic for a much longer conversation.)

 

The original toy train manufacturers (toy, as opposed to scale) realized that kids would take track and put it around the tree, or around the attic floor, and make all kinds of crazy track patterns, often with reverse loops and crossings.   It would have been very frustrating for those little kids had they needed to understand reverse loop wiring. Instead, the manufacturers took the easy (and only real practical and logical) way out. It was a clever marketing decision that we all have inherited.

 

In the fifties several of us kids on the block had Lionel 3 rail trains. We ran on the floor, no tables.

 

One kid had an American Flyer on a 4x8 table with green felt. He usually came over to play with us. We went to his house once in awhile, but we would become bored.

 

I think it is the "toy" aspect that seems to remind me of those days.

HAd to pause the football game, Can't do two things at once like wife.

I personally too came from HO and desired 2 rail O which got me into buying very expensive Brass models, What a restriction as cars were like $300+ when 300 ment something Overland O was very $$$$.$$. That might have been a good thing as it really limited one to buying all one wanted.

Then Came Atlas. with fantastic 2 rail products and the dam burst. A closet full still new in the box cars. I had started building a layout and then bust. sort of lost a little interest as things were changing and a fight for me with decisions decisions, DC, DCC, or if one wanted newer era equipment DCS. MTh. Then stuck with many brass DC  and  newer MTH DCS. all two rail.

Last year I saw how 3 railers were catching on with scale 3 rail and the darkened middle rail. The tubular track was left to collectors and the new 3 rail to runners which I think can handle 2 rail flanges.

If I was to start now I think I'd go 3 rail as one can find stuff cheaper and more plentiful.Choice,.

I also like the fact that in 3 rail the engines with the ugly sliding framework can handle tighter curves making it easier to build a layout in our homes. It doesn't mean we have to stay with number 2and 4? switches but at least we can lay returns allowing for longer straight runs. With that darkened 3 rail one slowly puts it  out of ones mind and just enjoys running his trains.

 

Phil   

This.

Go to the Weekend Photo thread and stare at a few photos of the best 3 rail layouts you can find.

 

If you say to yourself, "nice....but that 3rd rail!" then you are meant to be a 2-railer. If you have any misgivings at all about the 3rd rail, big flanges, and the couplers, you will never really be happy in 3 rail.

 

Jim

 

Get an issue of Model Railroader and look at the "trackside photos".    Then get an issue of O Gauge Railraoding and look at the 3-rail layout photos, particularly closeups like TRackside.    Two things bother me about the 3 rail photos, the large oversize rail with the center rail, and the large oversize couplers on the equipment.    Get an issue of O SCale Trains and look at the layout photos and they will be like the HO ones in Trackside Photos.   

 

Decide which look you prefer and go with it.  

3 rail can be more forgiving on several levels.

Jim Policastro's reply,sums it all up as far as me going from 3 rail over to 2rl.The points mentioned convinced me 2rl had to be it or nothing at all if I stayed in O scale,with no disrespect to 3 rl. With Ross switches & Gargraves track with wood ties,3rail is VERY hard to say "no" to.Just my opinion.Al Hummel

On Sunday, January 11, 2015 1:31 PM, O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum <alerts@hoop.la> wrote:


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| Subject: 2 rail vs. 3 rail ? Reply By: Jim Policastro In: Train Forums / 2-Rail SCALE | |

Go to the Weekend Photo thread and stare at a few photos of the best 3 rail layouts you can find. If you say to yourself, "nice....but that 3rd rail!" then you are meant to be a 2-railer. If you have any misgivings at all about the 3rd rail, big flanges, and the couplers, you will never really be happy in 3 rail.  Jim    View This Reply
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What Jim Policastro said. 

I was in HO model railroading for 35 years or so.  After we moved into our new home I took a hiatus from the hobby for a few years.  When I started again I new that the size of O Scale would be easier to work and I really liked the more massive size of the engines and rolling stock.  But to me, its all about creating the totalmodel railroad.  So I think the scale track, wheels, etc. are just as important as that scratch built building that you spend hours on creating.  JMHO

"2 rail vs. 3 rail ?"

 

   Well the major difference other than the obvious extra rail is that 3 rail O gauge is designed to run on tighter curves than 2 rail O gauge. They do it by using larger flanges and larger couplers mounted on the trucks. Making the trains run on sharper curves has advantages for those with less space but the trade off is less realism. For a new modeler I'd suggest taking a good look at the space you have and visualize what would fit in either 2 rail or 3 rail then balance that against how realistic you want the layout to look when done. There's many ways to go, less 2 rail but better looking or more 3 rail but not as realistic. One thing to consider if you want 2 rail but don't have a lot of room is that S scale is 2 rail but a bit smaller than O scale so an S scale 2 rail layout will fit in about the same space as an O scale 3 rail layout.....DaveB 

All other factors aside:

 

If your intention is to build an island style platform with circles of track, 3 rail or any smaller scale is more friendly. 

 

If you are going to build a layout essentially wandering around the walls, 2 rail would be a great choice.  In fact the best way to get the biggest bang out of any style or scale is building around the wall.  That way your curve radii can be maximized.

To me the greatest difference is that you need large curves to have a realistic 2-rail layout.  This means you need a lot of space.  Many 2-rail layouts here in CA take both sides of a 2 car garage.  (Basements are rare in CA.)  Even with that all you get is a big circle for the mainline.  

 

Basically, you can operate large equipment on sharper curves with 3-rail than with 2-rail.  If you goal is to run large steam and diesels in a limited space then 3-rail is a good choice.  If you have the room for 2-rail, it is a good choice.

 

Joe

The irony is a lot of 3R trains should run on larger radius.  Just because it does doesn't mean it should.  Sure that'll 'stir the pot' here.

 

And, I'm a 3R guy.

Gad, I always post this:

 

There is absolutely no reason that 2- rail cannot be run on O-27 curves.  It requires only the same compromises in realism that 3-rail requires - truck-mounted couplers, missing underframes, shortened models, excessive space between cars.  That center rail simply has nothing to do with curve radius.  

 

Two-rail wheelsets ought to work just fine in a sharp curve environment, so long as you do not drop below about .160" tread width. OScale standard used to be .172, and that is what you get on most used equipment.

 

Or, you could stick to very small switch locomotives and shorter cars, like a 44 tonner and some ore cars.  I bet scale versions of those would have no trouble on O-27 curves.  That's 13 1/2" radius, for 2-railers.  Probably look unrealistic, but what the heck?

I'm the younger one compared to some others who I who follow & respect Here on The forum. Yes 3 rail can be run on tight curves but it doesnt look right. If you want to run the big scale size 3 rail engines.. even 072 seems small, try 090, 099 or 0128+ etc.  

2 rail can squeak by on 36" radius /6'++but either way you need alot of real estate For your model railroad empire. IMO.

For me it's simple -----


This is prototype:


This isn't:

I like toy trains a lot! They serve a very different purpose for me. If I had to chose between them I will confess I am a fine scale enthusiast and would prefer following the 1:1 as much as possible.

I know there are wonderful 3 rail scale layouts detailed like any scale layout would be. But why the pizza cutters and 1:24 couplers- 3' high rail beats me.
That is my opinion

You are correct.  My layout uses the largest radius that I can fit and the minimum is O-72 including switches.

 

I wish that I had the space to operate the equipment that I want to run which includes large steam engines and scale passenger cars with bigger curves.  The fact is that I, and most people that I know, don't have the space so we make the 3-rail compromise.

 

Look at the other posts on this forum where many people ask if such and such large engine will get around curves much smaller than O-72.  It seems as if most people don't have the space.

 

Joe  

You are correct that there is no reason that 2-rail cannot be made to run on O-72 and smaller curves.  The fact is that no manufacturer makes their 2-rail equipment to do this.  Take models from 3rd Rail, for example.  They make the same 4-8-4 steam engine in both 3 and 2 rail versions.  The 3 rail version has oversize flanges and blind drivers and will get around a O-72 curve.  The 2 rail version has flanges on all drivers and needs a much larger radius than O-72.  I am guessing it probably needs an O-120 minimum curve and number 6 or 8 switches.   

 

The same goes for passenger cars and other equipment.  3rd Rail's 3 rail passenger cars have truck mounted couplers and the 2 rail equipment has body mounted couplers.  I prefer body mounted couplers but my 3rd Rail passenger cars won't get around O-72 curves with them.  

 

You can't even get some very desirable trains in a 2 rail version.  The new Lionel Big Boy is a prime example.  Look at all the excitement on this forum about this model.  If you want it and want to run it, then 3 rail is your only choice.  

 

I think that many people would switch from 3 to 2 rail if they could buy off the shelf equipment that would at least negotiate an O-72 curve.  

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe.  But most 2- railers cannot handle the compromises in realism required to allow a model to negotiate a 36" radius.  I suppose one way to think of it is, if you are able to handle missing underframe parts, huge flanges combined with missing flanges, and truck-mounted couplers, then surely realistic looking track is not something you would care about.

 

Apparently Lionel and MTH have that all figured out.

There also seems to be a fixation upon running only large engines; probably compensating for something,

I'd say availability depends on what era and railroad you model. There has been much more variety of product made for the railroad I model in 2 rail. As Ed Rappe mentioned, you might have to be patient but everything comes around. I've also come across rare scratch built items that I'd never dreamed of owning. I was very proactive and built my collection quickly. 

 

If I wanted an engine from Lionel, I'd buy it and have it converted. I haven't needed to go that route yet because everything I've needed has been imported by others.

 

Knowing what I've learned in 2 rail, I would not go back to 3 rail modeling even if I was limited to a closet space. I do like the charm of the tinplate stuff, so that might interest me but not as a model.

Hahahah


       

I'm willing to say...there is no difference.  It all depends on your tastes/preferences, especially if you're just getting started.  When I got into O scale I didn't do my homework so all I knew was 3-rail, sometimes (when looking at Ed Rappe's layout) I wish I had gone 2-rail.

you need large curves to have a realistic 2-rail layout

 

That's true for 3-rail as well.  When I see folks ask how small a radius they can get in a given space, I wonder why they're not asking how BIG a radius they can use.

 

One thing I don't see people asking, does a 2-rail conventional engine run as well/slow as a 3-rail conventional engine (that is, without any command control installed)?  If so, what's the cheapest DC power pack available (not one that can only be found at a swap meet) that will provide enough power?

 

You'll see folks say there's plenty available if you go to these swap meets, but if you can't/don't go, what's the alternative?  BTS still hasn't resumed production of their 2-rail engines, it's been at least 4 years (I know there's been health issues).

 

There might be more variety in 3-rail, especially engines, but rolling stock can usually be converted easily/inexpensively from one to the other.

 

The large flanges don't bother me, but that 3rd rail is an eyesore.  My only solution is to either sell off and buy 2-rail, convert everything from 3-rail to 2-rail, or go battery power and tear out the middle rail, none of which I'm willing to do at present.  In the meantime I install Kadee couplers and fix the pilots (3-Rail Scale )

"You can't even get some very desirable trains in a 2 rail version.  The new Lionel Big Boy is a prime example.  Look at all the excitement on this forum about this model.  If you want it and want to run it, then 3 rail is your only choice.  "


Desirable for 3 rail scale--- Nice model but still US Hobbies filigree of detail. Bells whistles can be added to any scale. I would rather have all the detail of the mechanical stoker with a removable coal load than a bunch of gears and a plastic box that moves the same coal load up or down in an unrealistic manner not like the drop in prototype (physics and individual nuggets of coal much like any sedimentation form a v grove toward the outlet) it's all good I love my Vision Big Boy but believe me it's no Kohs or Key. Nope

I'm not saying there isn't any bragging rights the Vision Line Big Boy is a darn cool piece of technology and fun! I would not trade it for my Kohs. Opinion

Play value is missing from 2 rail in some degree- maybe? I know guys that operate 6000+ square foot layouts in HO with crews of 15-20 people for 7 hours. Play value? I sure as heck enjoy the play value in that and it's not even O at all!

Hey at the end of the day it's all about "to each his or her own" I love it all!

2 and 3 rail it's all good stuff honestly!

It's nice having choices! =)

After seeing Ed Rappe's 2-rail layout all I can say is, any more play value and I'd be overwhelmed.

 

My 3-rail 12x12 (with a 2x14 extension down one side) has a loop around the wall plus industrial sidings and a yard of sorts to give me as much play value as I can want.  I actually wouldn't mind having a longer loop just to run some scenic passenger trains (this may be in future plans).

A picture is worth many words...

 

This is a 50" radius mainline adjacent to a 46" radius passing siding in 2 RAIL.

 

 

Built on 24" wide around the wall bench work...

 

Bob

The play factor should be hanging out with your buddies, not watching a toy train going around in a circle, regardless of whether it is 2 rail or 3 rail and how elaborate the circle is.

If I had the space, I'd attempt to go 2-rail, knowing that it would be more costly and have to settle for fewer purchases.