What do you think the new 2023 Vision line will be for next year?
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My vote goes to a really nice hand cart with steam sweat effect... 
But really, maybe a new rendition of the PRR T1? It would go well with the new 5550 that's being built!
Bout due for a diesel.
@miller3 posted:My vote goes to a really nice hand cart with steam sweat effect...
I figure you're kidding but I would like to see things go in this direction. I think huge engines get the Vision Line treatment because there's more real estate to cram special effects into but it would be cool to see fancier, smaller engines. Like a Berk or an RS3. The hand cart would be a great start 
But I wouldn't be mad if a Vision Line Jawn Henry or Triplex popped up. I would get a second job to afford it haha
There has never been a Legacy Dreyfuss Hudson. I have no clue as to if Lionel now owns the MTH tool for it, but I suspect a Vision Dreyfuss would be a hit.
Would like to see a Diecast diesel again, Berkshire or FEF-3.
Still hoping for a modern diesel, preferably an ET44AC/ET44C4, SD70ACe-T4, or Siemens Charger. New Vision features could include rotating bearing caps on the trucks, dynamic brake sounds/control, and road name/road number-specific crew dialogue. If the BNSF ET44C4 is made, I also want the trucks to have the correct truck side frame details. A set of modern rolling stock such as new Vision Ethanol Tank Cars would be great. I'd love to see a Boeing airplane fuselage train similar to the UP Rocket Train from last year.
Streamline PRR TORPEDO.
I'd like them to go back to the "never seen before in O gauge" mantra and make something completely new. I would also like to see something smaller and less expensive to have a broader appeal.
There is one hint on the Lionel support website. Hint Number 1, its an engine that has been done by Lionel a few times.
They're revealing it online during York week if I heard correctly, right?
@ed h posted:There is one hint on the Lionel support website. Hint Number 1, its an engine that has been done by Lionel a few times.
LOL! Ed you're killing me. I've been accused of being in "the know" and now your dropping a hint like Burr dropped Hamilton.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:They're revealing it online during York week if I heard correctly, right?
As far as I know yes
Just as they remade the Vision challenger and the Vision 2-10-10-2 they are going to remake the Vision Big Boy and Vision GG-1. Just a matter of time. Could be one of them.
But if I had my druthers I would love to see a Vision NYC Dreyfuss Hudson. Most beautiful engine ever built. Then we all pester Scott Mann to remake the Golden Gate Depot 20th Century limited cars for it to pull.
Ive heard they have the molds for the AT&SF 2900 class. That would be awesome to have a VL AT&SF 2926! Sunset 3rd rail came out with the 2900 and so did MTH in premier and rail king.
Vision Line AT&SF 2900 Class
Smoke stack & Whistle steam, new swinging bell (different because the 2900's bell wss on the front of the locomotive), dynamo steam, road number specific details (dual len headlight vs singular headlight), possibly a way to make the stack extend like the prototype (may need to use the technology like the diaphragms on GG1).
LIONEL PLEASE MAKE THIS LOCOMOTIVE CLASS!!
NYC Dreyfuss Hudson or PRR T1.
@MartyE posted:I'd like them to go back to the "never seen before in O gauge" mantra and make something completely new. I would also like to see something smaller and less expensive to have a broader appeal.
Lionel isn't familiar with the smaller and less expensive mantra. 
I'm in for the PRR T1 Duplex.
Word I heard from someone who knows someone at lionel, but seems a Lionel VL Dreyfuss is floating around "soon".....
@Rider Sandman posted:There has never been a Legacy Dreyfuss Hudson. I have no clue as to if Lionel now owns the MTH tool for it, but I suspect a Vision Dreyfuss would be a hit.
Lionel offered a Dreyfuss with tmcc back in 2002. So they (should)have the tooling.
@RickO posted:Lionel offered a Dreyfuss with tmcc back in 2002. So they (should)have the tooling.
I could be wrong, but I believe they lost it as part of the lawsuit.
@RickO posted:Lionel offered a Dreyfuss with tmcc back in 2002. So they (should)have the tooling.
Correct, They also had a catalog legacy version around 2011 I believe. However it was canceled, but you can still see it in the original catalogs.
we are long overdue for another Lionel dreyfuss
As much as I would love to see the Dreyfuss made again, I don't think it should be a Vision Line engine IMHO. With the limited space in the boiler about the only thing to add would be whistle smoke and the force coupler.
Just my 2 cents,Doug
For an absolutely absurd guess from far, far left field: Vision Line Thomas the Tank Engine.
Not sure how well it would sell (and Id doubt if Id even get one) but it certainly would be... unique.
PRR E-44 electric - fingers crossed 🤞
Lionel also has the tooling for the C&O Yellowbelly Hudson. They only did the engine one time, and that was a long time ago, back when TMCC first came out. The C&O Hudson would look perfect pulling Lionel's C&O Chessie Passenger Train.
something that is miles away from becoming a workhorse of the Fenix Pacific because i can't afford it or its too huge to fit O - 36 curves
although it would be awesome if lionel could give the vision line treatment to a small engine and sell it for under 1000 sheckles then maybe one day by epic chance my wallet and railroad will graciously welcome it into the roster.
anyway i hope its a diesel as we haven't had a vision diesel in quite awhile.
If I had to guess I’d say it’s a rerelease of the CC2 or possibly 700e. Personally I’d prefer something new to O gauge but who knows. Although it seems like a Dreyfuss or T1 Duplex are long overdue.
I‘d love to see a vision triplex and that’d be an immediate buy for me, but I’m less optimistic after seeing MTH still has the angus tooling…although glad MTH is rereleasing it with whistle steam. Would’ve thought Lionel got that tooling and the triplex.
@Dylan the Train Man posted:Lionel also has the tooling for the C&O Yellowbelly Hudson. They only did the engine one time, and that was a long time ago, back when TMCC first came out. The C&O Hudson would look perfect pulling Lionel's C&O Chessie Passenger Train.
That's one that I'd be interested in!
@EricTrainMan posted:If I had to guess I’d say it’s a rerelease of the CC2 or possibly 700e.
Those vl 700e's always go for over msrp on the secondary market.
I passed because of the inverted valve guides and some other detail issues,and lack thereof.
Now...redo it(right) with the KLine J1e tooling and you've got my attention, and my preorder.
@Rider Sandman posted:There has never been a Legacy Dreyfuss Hudson. I have no clue as to if Lionel now owns the MTH tool for it, but I suspect a Vision Dreyfuss would be a hit.
@RickO posted:Lionel offered a Dreyfuss with tmcc back in 2002. So they (should)have the tooling.
@EricTrainMan posted:I could be wrong, but I believe they lost it as part of the lawsuit.
@Timmy Tarsh posted:Word I heard from someone who knows someone at lionel, but seems a Lionel VL Dreyfuss is floating around "soon".....
No tooling as that was indeed one of the three stolen toolings from MTH. If this was to be something, it would indeed be all new tooling or a brass hybrid. I seriously doubt that this will be the VL engine unveiled during York week as I would imagine we have yet more years to be denied a Dreyfuss.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Lionel isn't familiar with the smaller and less expensive mantra.
John, I thought you had a PRR T1 Duplex you got with all the bells and whistles(that you may or may not be still working on)?
@Dylan the Train Man posted:Lionel also has the tooling for the C&O Yellowbelly Hudson. They only did the engine one time, and that was a long time ago, back when TMCC first came out. The C&O Hudson would look perfect pulling Lionel's C&O Chessie Passenger Train.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:That's one that I'd be interested in!
Wasn't the C&O offering a semi-scale engine, or did it only apply to the tender? I know that the only offering that they did wasn't a great runner from what I heard, something with the electronics was it?
Well, whatever they do intend to unveil, this is going to be interesting. Is it something that they have done before, which would be a let down unless the done before was semi-scale and not scale. Is it going to be one of those mystery engines that we know some about, but never been made? Well, I think that it would be switching over to a diesel engine, since I think that has been a bit, but Lionel likes to be sneaky and fool me. See what comes.
Prediction: Vision Line H-6 Mallet 2-6-6-2s available as built in several C & O numbers, in WMSR #1309 regalia with CrewTalk from the actual WMSR crew, and in a few fantasy schemes (B & O, Virginian, etc.). Passenger car packs to follow and WMSR gets the Strasburg treatment from Lionel. Personally I'd be in for a Vision Line version of the current WMSR #1309.
@MartyE posted:I'd like them to go back to the "never seen before in O gauge" mantra and make something completely new. I would also like to see something smaller and less expensive to have a broader appeal.
I am with Marty on this the whole point of Vision line was doing the not done before hence the SF 2-10-10-2 , Pennsy 0-8-8-0 and Gensets and Evo Hybrid. This was the true intention and should return to that mantra.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:I am with Marty on this the whole point of Vision line was doing the not done before hence the SF 2-10-10-2 , Pennsy 0-8-8-0 and Gensets and Evo Hybrid. This was the true intention and should return to that mantra.
I agree as well. I would imagine they could have a former TMCC engine or early Legacy be a VL as long as it fit the bill of more detailing, and better features. Not saying it needs insane smoke effects, just stuff they didn't have on the earlier version of it.
Thing is, there are quite a number of engines they could choose from, will they. What will they come up with? Is it going to be a big engine, or maybe medium sized engine? Probably wouldn't be a smaller engine(referring to steam that is), not that there's anything wrong with small, I just don't see them doing one.
That aside, whatever they do decide to do, would they make smaller engines in the same catalog so people could run something with it that doesn't break the bank? Who knows.
I'd still love to see a streamlined B&O P7 Pacific or a streamlined NH I-5
What ever it is I predict it will be out of my price range 
Maybe a Vision Line J1e Hudson?
A scale VL PRR A5, not the oversized K-Line version. If HO scale engines can have all that electronics in them, why not this engine🙂
i just thought a little about the hint someone gave about the engine being a previous lionel engine that possibly could not have a vision treatment yet
and i thought what about a Y6B AND lionel could make a fantasy red bird or blue scheme for it
or could lionel make a fantasy norfolk and western CC2
Wasn't the PRR and the N&W partners for awhile ? i had also read they at one point considered merging . is this true?
I've given up asking for an updated rerun of the Zephyr, so I will now suggest a never done, hopefully brass, SP 4-10-2 Gresley steamer. They recently did the UP 4-12-2 Gresley, so that sound should be available as well as the mechanism. The 5000 series were found pulling heavy freights throughout the SP system. Would be perfect for their next brass Vision loco! I hope.
PHOTO deleted due to possible copyright
I could appreciate a VL Y6B, but even better yet a VL Erie Triplex, wow, I'd come outta retirement for that one !!
Not an articulated engine!, you loose half your market. Not a smart business move!
@CAPPilot posted:A scale VL PRR A5, not the oversized K-Line version. If HO scale engines can have all that electronics in them, why not this engine🙂
Well, a scale A5 would be cool, but I don't think they could fit enough features in it to justify calling it a Vision Line.
anybody got an idea of when lionel will do the big reveal?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, a scale A5 would be cool, but I don't think they could fit enough features in it to justify calling it a Vision Line.
John,
You are probably right. So, I will settle for a simple Legacy version.
Would like a 1225 and polar express Berkshire loaded with features / smoke and maybe new features
Diesel with “cold start smoke feature”
Back to the future locomotive (s). Led color smoke stack effect. Include a DeLorean to push
A layout Accessory would be cool.
Yes 1225 or at least 765 Berkshire loaded out or another popular engine they have done in the past that would be a great vision line engine
@EricTrainMan posted:If I had to guess I’d say it’s a rerelease of the CC2 or possibly 700e. Personally I’d prefer something new to O gauge but who knows. Although it seems like a Dreyfuss or T1 Duplex are long overdue.
I‘d love to see a vision triplex and that’d be an immediate buy for me, but I’m less optimistic after seeing MTH still has the angus tooling…although glad MTH is rereleasing it with whistle steam. Would’ve thought Lionel got that tooling and the triplex.
I second the CC2!
Thinking outside the box here. How about a series of SCALE mow equipment? Burro crane, ballast tamper with laser buggies, tie replacement equipment, etc. I could see a string of these (slowly) running down the main line. Of course, they would have to be operating with sound. That's what would make them Vision Line. But then again, my grandpa used to tell me "You can wish in one hand and sh__ in the other. See which one fills up first."
Tom
Something from the MTH tooling .......
I think a well detailed Shay and log cars would be unbelievable in Visionline.
Could you imagine the price on that?
This might be a hairbrained idea but maybe do an Erie K5 pacific? There's a pretty cool story involving the K5 #2524 that got donated to South Korea following the Korean war, and there are photographs of the locomotive both in a harbor at San Francisco and then at a station platform at Seoul with the South Korean and American flags on it's smokebox. I'd post them here but no clue if they're copyrighted or not. Either way it would be a pretty cool model and give Lionel a chance to go wild with the fantasy schemes by doing up a few other K5s in KNR paint. Not sure how similar Korean coaches are to American ones but since South Korea's railroad system is similar in spec to America's I'd imagine some light retooling or even just repainting of normal coaches would be sufficient. This is basically just the ultimate pipe dream but hey, maybe the historical bit would be worth something to some people.
@paigetrain posted:anybody got an idea of when lionel will do the big reveal?
This will definitely happen during York Week, October 20, 21, 22. Lionel will not be at the York Meet like some others, but they plan to broadcast what the engine is one of the days. I don't remember if Ryan had stated exactly what day, but I would say either pay attention to their channel or Train World's as Ken Jr. is going to be having their Virtual O Scale Week(that is their topic search that to see what they are doing).
I chuckle at the angst about what a future product release will be. Folks, nothing we say here is going to change it, so sit back, relax, and wait for the announcement.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I chuckle at the angst about what a future product release will be. Folks, nothing we say here is going to change it, so sit back, relax, and wait for the announcement.
Got that right John. Sometimes people forget how much time is invested in making these VL engines. I think Ryan had said about the Niagara, something like 3-4 years worth of work. Sort of makes me think of they have failed drawing board ideas that they put off for the next engine.
I enjoy the discussion though @gunrunnerjohn haha plus it passes the time till the reveal.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I think Ryan had said about the Niagara, something like 3-4 years worth of work. Sort of makes me think of they have failed drawing board ideas that they put off for the next engine.
I believe it. I massively underestimated how much work would go into the design of 3D printing a blast furnace. It doesn't even have electronics! I have a small list of items it would be cool to do once I get the overall structure done so I bet you're right about the failed drawing board ideas
Big Deal ... Bigger Price ... followed by Even Bigger QC ISSUES (and no replacement parts)
Thanks, but NO THANKS !
@dk122trains posted:Not an articulated engine!, you loose half your market. Not a smart business move!
I have a feeling this one will loose half their market.
@ed h posted:I have a feeling this one will loose half their market.
then they need to tighten it up
Whatever it ends up being, a group of people will be happy, nearly everyone will complain about the cost, and a chorus of people will say "Why'd they make another _______ locomotive ? They should have made a _______ locomotive" (Insert one of the following into each blank NYC, PRR, UP, SP, Sante Fe, Nickle Plate, steam, diesel, Hudson, Northern, Berkshire, articulated, big, small, streamlined, non-streamlined, common, uncommon, attractive, ugly)
@PSM posted:Whatever it ends up being, a group of people will be happy, nearly everyone will complain about the cost, and a chorus of people will say "Why'd they make another _______ locomotive ? They should have made a _______ locomotive" (Insert one of the following into each blank NYC, PRR, UP, SP, Sante Fe, Nickle Plate, steam, diesel, Hudson, Northern, Berkshire, articulated, big, small, streamlined, non-streamlined, common, uncommon, attractive, ugly)
Yeah, that is always going to be the case regardless of whether it is a VL locomotive or just the catalog in general. The one catalog had almost nothing I wanted, but I was actually happy that it was a bare as it was so I didn't have to order hardly anything to save on my bank account.
I do still believe that it will probably be a Diesel locomotive since the majority of what has come out has been steam(be it new or reissues). What kind of Diesel, I have not a clue. I just hope it is a Diesel and not one that I would want.
I believe that i will be a rerun. Now remember, they re run the 2-10-10-2s, but not the pennsy CC-2s 0-8-8-0s. My money will be for that.
Dreyfus with the MTH tooling
I missed something When does Lionel announce this?
@Don Beck posted:I missed something When does Lionel announce this?
It will definitely be during York Week which is right around the corner. I think I had already commented somewhere here about that. The timing is the question, will Lionel do it on their own YouTube Channel, which day, what time, ETC. Thing is, as soon as it is out, everyone will know, there will be comments here, and even a new topic I'm sure. So, be ready the 20th, 21st, or 22nd for the announcement. TrainWorld will probably have them live as well as Ken Jr. is doing a show during York as well. Hope that answers your question Don.
yes, thanks
@Lehigh Valley Railroad posted:Dreyfus with the MTH tooling
This would move the needle. A Dreyfuss with all the Legacy/Vision fixin’s would be a monster hit.
Just watched a demos with dave clip, where dave mentioned that the stasburg 90 isnt a russian decapod. But they do have the russian decapod from mth. I might throw that into the ring as well.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It will definitely be during York Week which is right around the corner. I think I had already commented somewhere here about that. The timing is the question, will Lionel do it on their own YouTube Channel, which day, what time, ETC. Thing is, as soon as it is out, everyone will know, there will be comments here, and even a new topic I'm sure. So, be ready the 20th, 21st, or 22nd for the announcement. TrainWorld will probably have them live as well as Ken Jr. is doing a show during York as well. Hope that answers your question Don.
In the Lionel newsletter it will be Oct. 21st 3:30est on YouTube and their Facebook page
@2012ford posted:In the Lionel newsletter it will be Oct. 21st 3:30est on YouTube and their Facebook page
There we go. That's the official notice for when, I don't get that newsletter unfortunately. Maybe I should since I buy a lot of stuff from them, lol.
Will lionel be announcing later this week? Any hints or leaks?
@biscuitag97 posted:Will lionel be announcing later this week? Any hints or leaks?
According to their website, they are doing a "virtual train show" on Facebook and YouTube tomorrow at 3:30pm eastern.
@EscapeRocks posted:then they need to tighten it up
I bought a PS-2 MTH Dreyfuss from Stout Auctions a few years ago with the idea I’d convert it to TMCC or send it to one of the forum wizards for a Legacy upgrade. I’ve now sent it to York with a buddy to be sold off. I’m all in on a Legacy release at some point - maybe tomorrow is the day!
Although, after today’s threads on paint colors, I’ll probably wait for it to be delivered before pulling the trigger. With my luck, they’ll be out of Dreyfuss gray paint (having used it all on Legacy smoke boxes) and instead paint it smoke-box graphite.
Well, the good thing for me is my phone will be blowing up shortly after they start broadcasting the live feed. I won't need to ask because of that.
New big boy oh yeah
Really? What a blah blah blah. Well, I'm not a Big Boy fan, so that is money still in my wallet. I wonder when the Y6's will pop around again? If not this coming year, 2024 for sure.
I love the big boy. I already have a vision line big boy, but I must say IMO this is a 3rd or 4th time releasing it in general in the past 15 years. Just saying. But I do love the BIG BOY.
Great choice in the Big Boy!!! Looking forward to seeing all of the number offerings.
Maybe next year there will be a VL UP FEF!
How incredibly original of them.
@MichRR714 posted:How incredibly original of them.
Yeah, most of us were expecting that they would get back to the whole business of what it was to be a Vision Line Locomotive. I had expected some big diesel or electric that hasn't been done. One thing that was in the back of my head for a steamer was either the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha engines, not sure the make on all of them, or the S2 Turbine. The Turbine has been done, and being that only one was ever made, they would maybe make 3 at the most. 671, 681, and 6200. Maybe a pilot version, but they're done right there. What others of that could they make? Money back in the wallet.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Lionel isn't familiar with the smaller and less expensive mantra.
I would love a T1 also. Good idea John.
I'm sure they will sell a bunch of them at an incredible profit, but I'm not terribly interested in this. That's a whole lot of train dollars that could pay for a slew of other items instead of one engine. As well and most importantly, I'd sure prefer a new locomotive model rather than an identical v2 with upgraded electronics. Oh well . . . at least I have my Lionel UP Rocket Train to look forward to. :-)
@BlueFeather posted:I'm sure they will sell a bunch of them at an incredible profit, but I'm not terribly interested in this. That's a whole lot of train dollars that could pay for a slew of other items instead of one engine. As well and most importantly, I'd sure prefer a new locomotive model rather than an identical v2 with upgraded electronics. Oh well . . . at least I have my Lionel UP Rocket Train to look forward to. :-)
I agree. I don't need to buy every VL locomotive that comes out, I'm sort of picky on that from the start. If it's steam, I'll look at it. If it's a Big Boy, not biting. I bought the second run of Challengers because I like that locomotive. I went for one of the coal fired black UP's.
I ordered the Class A because I love N&W. The Southern Pacific run they had, I passed on. There is no doubt that these Big Boys will sell, with new features, new boards of electronics, the latest bells and whistles. However, like some have said, it may not be a selling point of all the bells and whistles meaning not to buy it at all. The first run of depleting coal loads I thought was ridiculous, I wouldn't want an engine doing that for me. If they offered a New York Central Hudson with that feature, I'd skip it for sure even if it was the Dreyfuss. I'd message them saying I don't want that feature, if and when you make it without, I'll buy. No Big Boy for me, ever.
Well, I suppose the upside is they won’t be limited to artist renderings to sell it - they can just recycle actual photos of the previous one.
I’m surprised the demand is high for this remake, especially given the “non-Vision” Legacy and MTH versions that released in the last few years.
@Rider Sandman posted:Well, I suppose the upside is they won’t be limited to artist renderings to sell it - they can just recycle actual photos of the previous one.
I’m surprised the demand is high for this remake, especially given the “non-Vision” Legacy and MTH versions that released in the last few years.
Exactly. Marty, John,myself and others have said enough with the already been done. When the second set of Challengers came out, okay, but the Big Boy is heading towards overkill. just my opinion on that. Need fresh ideas please.
I was hoping for a k4 since there is currently one being rebuilt right now. oh well. I'm sure there is gonna be a lot of re-release with some other U.P. items to go along with it.
While I am UP guy and love articulated loco's I am not in for this one I have the first VL Big Boy this is just getting silly make something not done before. Come on Lionel this is the best you got.
Ho-Hum, Looks like just another add to the ever growing disappointment list from Big L.
Doug
I still think a Visionline Shay with log cars or maybe even a Jupiter 4-4-0 with passenger cars would be cool. Tons of smoke everywhere!!
Bigboy..🥱....
It would be a good idea to see a Shay, that is for sure. It really boggles the mind on why they have not done some of the engines that we would think are no brainers. It may probably be what is the popular names, why not a New Haven engine?
No surprise since this item has been on lionelsupport.com for weeks now. Since the item number is 2301050 it's a 2023 item. In my post a few weeks ago, this was the item I was hinting at. Figure if the LCCA is doing a special version, there certainly must be one in Lionel's regular lineup.
LCCA Union Pacific VISIONLINE Big Boy #4023 (lionelsupport.com)
I'm not overly excited about it in general but it does have my favorite features and I don't have a Big Boy. We'll see what the price is though. I'll also need to learn what a force coupler is.
I guess if there's a Big Boy to buy as your first one, this might be it.
I usually cut Lionel more slack than others do, but I think this is a bit ridiculous. What makes this cutting edge in any way? Why is a Vision Line? I get running the Big Boy again, for the money, and I even get upgrading it, but its not like these features are brand new.
@TheRambles posted:
Are you serious. I took this as a joke.
With all the choices Another BB? oy
@romiller49 posted:Are you serious. I took this as a joke.
Go to the Lionel homepage. It’s the real deal.
Next vision line locomotive... ..vision line challenger!
A big boy ! More misjudgement about what will sell and bring the max in sales and satisfaction by Lionel in the market it serves.
I can understand the disappointment but hope this is a hugely successful offering. It also could help replenish parts inventory for the last runs of the big boy, which i think was in 2014? Is that right, if so then this is a repeat of an item that will be close to 10 years old. I really loved the big boy when it came out, but my layout does not have 72-inch curves, so would have needed to sell my house and get a new one with a room that could fit the 72 or greater curves. Take that back, it would fit in my living room, but I don't think that would fly with the House Manager, my wife. Which got me thinking, what is the demographic group of the potential buyer, so here is my list:
- Single, never married -- You are the master of your universe, (unless of course, you are still living with your parents).
- Divorced, no child or spousal support -- Failed marriages are no fun, but it does offer some freedoms to manage your own life and if you want to put the layout in the family room, go for it. The living room or dining room layout would probably lead to a bachelor's life, the jury is out on how the carpet central layout is viewed by prospective spouses, the "Christmas" Layout is a good test.
- Married and independently wealthy -- Money or space are not a problem, think of Frank Sinatra's separate building and layout in Palm Springs.
- Have a full-time job and great credit score and little or no debt -- these are individuals in their late 50s/ early 60s that are close to retirement but have almost made it, and if the new train purchase does not end your marriage because you can't afford the Mexico Cruise, then you are probably ok.
- Do not have other expensive hobbies,
- Have a full-time job and great credit score and little or no debt, but your adult kid lives with you, however, if they have a son, then you might be able to swing the good for the grandson to learn about electronics and fine motor skills.
- For most everyone else, anything over $500 is a problem, especially if you use a credit card and don't pay you balances down.
I surmise that there are probably about 5 people on the OGR forum that are independently wealthy, so the probable buyer of the new Big Boy is not on the forum and doesn't care what we think, and there are a few hundred of them out there that will have no problem dropping $2500 for an engine that they may or may not run.
Having been divorced/single for about 15 years, at first, all I could afford was the catalog. Things got better, some the prospective brides liked trains enough to give me a train related gift for the holiday or even go to a train store. I found the pre-order process was great, Lionel was so late on filling orders, that for the first several years of my second marriage, I could claim that "I pre-order it at Eastside Trains before we were married"
@dk122trains posted:A big boy ! More misjudgement about what will sell and bring the max in sales and satisfaction by Lionel in the market it serves.
Don, I thought for sure it would be some big diesel to come out. I was telling my brother tonight that exact thing. I had said the last bunch have all been steam, the electric GG1 from 2016(or so), and the Genset Switcher a bit before that. GE Hybrid some time before that. I guess I was wrong. What diesel could they have made into a VL?
I would have thought the next VL steam would be in 2024 as either the S2 Turbine, streamlined Milwaukee Road Hiawatha's, or maybe a streamlined New Haven or PRR Torpedo. Ah, what do I know, lol.
@Former Member posted:I can understand the disappointment but hope this is a hugely successful offering. It also could help replenish parts inventory for the last runs of the big boy, which i think was in 2014? Is that right, if so then this is a repeat of an item that will be close to 10 years old.
Most recent run was 2019 volume 2, which means they delivered about 2 years ago.
The choice of a Big Boy isn’t surprising to me and I don’t believe Lionel put that much thought into the decision. Last vision line engine was a Norfolk and Western Class A. A big articulated steam engine from all new tooling that was owned by an Eastern railroad. This time, a big articulated steam engine from existing tooling owned by a Western railroad. Just my opinion.
@dk122trains posted:A big boy ! More misjudgement about what will sell and bring the max in sales and satisfaction by Lionel in the market it serves.
and yet a fellow Rotary member, who owns a hobby/train shop, already has about 4 or 5 inquiries to be put on the list for pre-orders (and these are legitimate buyers)
The only BigBoy I purchased was the KLine version that was semi-scale. I would like to get rid of the tether between the tender and locomotive.
Terrance
Lionel post a link about winning a new 2023 big boy. Drawing is in March 2023! Fingers crossed.
Seems like this further confirms they are going to cycle through and update all the Visions they have done before. Challenger, 2-10-10-2 and now BB. Guess that means the 700 and GG-1 wont be far behind. I might buy the GG-1 because I missed that one, the prices on eBay are over the top, and I’ve always been worried the pantographs on a used one wouldn’t work right and I’d have no recourse.
But disappointed it isn’t something new. I have a BB. Don’t need another.
@EscapeRocks posted:and yet a fellow Rotary member, who owns a hobby/train shop, already has about 4 or 5 inquiries to be put on the list for pre-orders (and these are legitimate buyers)
I don't think Don is saying these won't sell. What Don is saying that there are other opportunities that could be had for other engines. This seems more like a safe bet on their part in my opinion. They know it will sell, they have a market for anything UP especially the Big Boy. I would wager that if they went with some big diesel engine by UP they could still get it to sell as there is definitely a market for it. Picture a beast coupled up with another diesel slightly smaller than the beast, and there is your selling point. The beast(whatever engine) plus this helper can pull 90+ cars. That is about the half of it.
There are other engines that they could have gone for in steam, I'm sure that there is definitely a market for just about any steam out there, as long as there are a few road names that hold their weight in the market. I could rattle off a few, but then someone may say I forgot these other railroads. Heck, Lionel has made quite a few fantasy engines to get them to sell, look at the Acela. How many different road names did they fish for(I know, not a VL, but an example)? Point is that just about anything they should think of, they lean over half way where we all seem to think they shouldn't. Are we right, heck, who can say. Regardless, their decision, they'll earn and we'll wait for the next one just like always.
Right Don? @dk122trains
I think this will sell well because enough of us will pay $3000 or more (just guessing!) for a limited run engine,
so why not a BB?
TrainWorld will be having Lionel on TrainWorld TV at 5PM EDT tonight Friday 10-21- 2022 and they will have a sample on display
Gotta put my thoughts in here. First I think a lot of the actual disappointment is because Lionel hyped a new Vision Locomotive. The rest would complain even if it was the exact locomotive they want. Any way let’s look at vision line, traditionally it is a new locomotive in the signature catalog of every even numbered year since 2014 (before that was unpredictable at the rate vision line would come out) ok so with that in mind 2022 we got a vision class A. Why would they be making a newly tooled locomotive in 2023 based from past history. I had already speculated that this would be a rerun but couldn’t understand why they would even mention a new vision locomotive for a rerun. Look at the 2-10-10-2 that was a rerun done in 2021. So assuming that they would rerun a vision locomotive it’s not that surprising they chose big boy look at the rate those locomotives demand on a secondary market. Is there something else that other would’ve rather seen done again like a CC2 or 700E. Probably, let’s also remember we only know what they’ve told us there could be so much more to this locomotive. (I mean their claimed vision feature for the Class A was 4 digit addressing) and big boy in my opinion is a cool locomotive in its own right but it is also probably over done.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I don't think Don is saying these won't sell. What Don is saying that there are other opportunities that could be had for other engines. This seems more like a safe bet on their part in my opinion. They know it will sell, they have a market for anything UP especially the Big Boy. I would wager that if they went with some big diesel engine by UP they could still get it to sell as there is definitely a market for it. Picture a beast coupled up with another diesel slightly smaller than the beast, and there is your selling point. The beast(whatever engine) plus this helper can pull 90+ cars. That is about the half of it.
There are other engines that they could have gone for in steam, I'm sure that there is definitely a market for just about any steam out there, as long as there are a few road names that hold their weight in the market. I could rattle off a few, but then someone may say I forgot these other railroads. Heck, Lionel has made quite a few fantasy engines to get them to sell, look at the Acela. How many different road names did they fish for(I know, not a VL, but an example)? Point is that just about anything they should think of, they lean over half way where we all seem to think they shouldn't. Are we right, heck, who can say. Regardless, their decision, they'll earn and we'll wait for the next one just like always.
Right Don? @dk122trains
Agree make vision line obtainable for as much of your market as possible.
We are disappointed. It is a beautiful engine, no doubt about it. But we have a beautiful engine… the last Big Boy.
Not a complaint given the $$$ saved.
@Bill Webb posted:We are disappointed. It is a beautiful engine, no doubt about it. But we have a beautiful engine… the last Big Boy.
Not a complaint given the $$$ saved.
Totally agree. I have said that I thought almost 100% that a diesel would be coming as it made sense to me given how many of the last bunch of the VL have been steam. Well, I guess we'll have to wait for next time yet again. No worries.
I watched the virtual train show on Lionel's channel and the discussion with Trainworld, and it sounds like the new company line is that VisionLine will be all new tooling every other year, with the intervening years a re-release with updated electronics. i.e. even years are new tooling, odd years are updated re-runs.
I suppose it makes sense, but it was presented like everyone knew/should have known this when, uhhh, that's not the case.
"new company line is that VisionLine will be all new tooling every other year, with the intervening years a re-release with updated electronics. i.e. even years are new tooling, odd years are updated re-runs."
THAT'S WHAT THEY SAY, LET'S SEE WHAT THEY DO!
How well did they do with the newly tooled Class A? I've not seen one in person - was it an improvement over the beautiful 2000 model in appearance or mechanically? If it was a success it would seem that the next likely candidate would be a newly tooled T1? They could just issue the Big Boy as an updated model rather than 'claim' vision class.
In the 2000 Aniversary Catalog Lionel offered 3 completely new large steamers - the PRR T1, the N&W Class A, and B&O EM1. That was quite an accomplishment when you think about it (unless you consider the 'unusual' circumstances under which they may have obtained some of the designs...)
Vision Line has lost its Original Vision and Lionel is just slapping the name on everything I remember when it was announced I was excited and now they watered it down.
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One thing I don’t really understand is why are they releasing these “retooled” models of steam locomotives of which they already had wonderful versions.
Was the JLC Big Boy not good enough? I can understand upgrading the electronics and adding new sounds and features. But if tooling for these locomotives is really that expensive, why are they bothering to replace perfectly good ones?
Especially in lieu of some models of never before done prototypes or of prototypes they have that are poor representations.
@zhubl posted:Gotta put my thoughts in here. First I think a lot of the actual disappointment is because Lionel hyped a new Vision Locomotive. The rest would complain even if it was the exact locomotive they want. Any way let’s look at vision line, traditionally it is a new locomotive in the signature catalog of every even numbered year since 2014 (before that was unpredictable at the rate vision line would come out) ok so with that in mind 2022 we got a vision class A. Why would they be making a newly tooled locomotive in 2023 based from past history. I had already speculated that this would be a rerun but couldn’t understand why they would even mention a new vision locomotive for a rerun. Look at the 2-10-10-2 that was a rerun done in 2021. So assuming that they would rerun a vision locomotive it’s not that surprising they chose big boy look at the rate those locomotives demand on a secondary market. Is there something else that other would’ve rather seen done again like a CC2 or 700E. Probably, let’s also remember we only know what they’ve told us there could be so much more to this locomotive. (I mean their claimed vision feature for the Class A was 4 digit addressing) and big boy in my opinion is a cool locomotive in its own right but it is also probably over done.
The rest would complain even if it was the exact locomotive they want.
no truer words have been spoken, …….😉
Pat
@rplst8 posted:One thing I don’t really understand is why are they releasing these “retooled” models of steam locomotives of which they already had wonderful versions.
Was the JLC Big Boy not good enough? I can understand upgrading the electronics and adding new sounds and features. But if tooling for these locomotives is really that expensive, why are they bothering to replace perfectly good ones?
Especially in lieu of some models of never before done prototypes or of prototypes they have that are poor representations.
@c.sam posted:
How well did they do with the newly tooled Class A? I've not seen one in person - was it an improvement over the beautiful 2000 model in appearance or mechanically? If it was a success it would seem that the next likely candidate would be a newly tooled T1? They could just issue the Big Boy as an updated model rather than 'claim' vision class.
In the 2000 Anniversary Catalog Lionel offered 3 completely new large steamers - the PRR T1, the N&W Class A, and B&O EM1. That was quite an accomplishment when you think about it (unless you consider the 'unusual' circumstances under which they may have obtained some of the designs...)
If memory serves me, the Class A Lionel introduced in 2000 was a design of MTH and part of the lawsuit that later ensued. The PRR T1 was a disputed design as well but I'm not sure of its origins. That is why Lionel had to create a new tooling with the N&W A Class. I was curious if it was successful and an improvement of the earlier model in any way other than electronics.
How much? Bueller? $3.000?
Unlike others here I like this choice. I missed the first vison big boy. at the time I did not have the money. if the price is right I am all in for this model. most visionline big boys on the secondary market are over $4000.
I already have the excursion version of the big boy. I would get the coal fired version with the elephant ears on this vision line offering. the force coupler feature is going to make this model stand out over the other visionline big boy IMO.
I just hope dave olson fixes the depleting coal load feature weakness. the rubber coal load attachment was sub-par. this part needsto be attached like alex m. did on a fix some years ago to one. this would make this feature more reliable and robust. just saying.
Anyone have an idea of MSRP??? GUESS??
@Don Beck posted:Anyone have an idea of MSRP??? GUESS??
Will not have a price until January when the new catalog comes out
@c.sam posted:In the 2000 Anniversary Catalog Lionel offered 3 completely new large steamers - the PRR T1, the N&W Class A, and B&O EM1. That was quite an accomplishment when you think about it (unless you consider the 'unusual' circumstances under which they may have obtained some of the designs...)
If memory serves me, the Class A Lionel introduced in 2000 was a design of MTH and part of the lawsuit that later ensued. The PRR T1 was a disputed design as well but I'm not sure of its origins. That is why Lionel had to create a new tooling with the N&W A Class. I was curious if it was successful and an improvement of the earlier model in any way other than electronics.
I didn’t realize the tooling for the Class A was MTH’s. I thought the C&O Allegheny was what was spawned the lawsuit. That said, I was just barely dipping my toe in the O-scale market then. Actually, it was more like 2002 I think when I even became aware of MTH and the locomotives that had smoke and sounds.
Anyway, I have the Lionel scale T1 and the MTH version and they are nothing alike. I don’t know how it could be disputed.
@rplst8 posted:Was the JLC Big Boy not good enough? I can understand upgrading the electronics and adding new sounds and features. But if tooling for these locomotives is really that expensive, why are they bothering to replace perfectly good ones?
So they can charge thousands for a locomotive and put the Visionline name on it I guess?
Why would you need to replace tooling so often just for an extra smoke or sound feature.
I guess I don't understand exactly what all the tooling does.
@rplst8 posted:One thing I don’t really understand is why are they releasing these “retooled” models of steam locomotives of which they already had wonderful versions.
Was the JLC Big Boy not good enough? I can understand upgrading the electronics and adding new sounds and features. But if tooling for these locomotives is really that expensive, why are they bothering to replace perfectly good ones?
They don’t retool the big boy every time they do it both the 2014 vision line and the 2019 LEGACY all use the original tooling from the JLC Big Boy. They may have some “minor” repairs to the tool as it’s used/ any small modifications for new features.
I would like to see them move the dynamo where it belongs on top of the boiler. I don’t think that’d be too hard it should all be separately applied brass parts just don’t make the one under the cab and drill a hole for one to go in up top
@zhubl posted:They don’t retool the big boy every time they do it both the 2014 vision line and the 2019 LEGACY all use the original tooling from the JLC Big Boy. They may have some “minor” repairs to the tool as it’s used/ any small modifications for new features.
I would like to see them move the dynamo where it belongs on top of the boiler. I don’t think that’d be too hard it should all be separately applied brass parts just don’t make the one under the cab and drill a hole for one to go in up top
You want Vision Line to be accurate???
Its already the very best or at least it was supposed to be.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:You want Vision Line to be accurate???
To be clear it IS accurate as the locomotives left ALCO.
My Vision is the Big Boy in NYC gray with Dreyfuss paint scheme and wheels used on Lionel Mohawk or niagara with either pacemaker box cars or NYC reefers behind it.. Would you buy it? Fantasy sells!!!
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@c.sam posted:How well did they do with the newly tooled Class A? I've not seen one in person - was it an improvement over the beautiful 2000 model in appearance or mechanically? If it was a success it would seem that the next likely candidate would be a newly tooled T1? They could just issue the Big Boy as an updated model rather than 'claim' vision class.
In the 2000 Aniversary Catalog Lionel offered 3 completely new large steamers - the PRR T1, the N&W Class A, and B&O EM1. That was quite an accomplishment when you think about it (unless you consider the 'unusual' circumstances under which they may have obtained some of the designs...)
Sam, I think the Class A's should be due in around the end of the year. I know that the model they had at York 2021 was a 3D printed shell, which there are pictures of on the forum here and there. It is good to note though as Ryan and Dave say about catalog art and 3D printed shells, "this is not necessarily the end product as there will be variations to it or changes."
I am one of those that has ordered one of the Class A's and can't wait to see it in person. It should be something else when it comes out. I don't have any doubt that when this new Big Boy arrives it will be much of the same awe that we know that we all like. Of course, some of us don't want this new Big Boy, but that doesn't mean we won't look at it and say it is a decent or good model. I guess time will tell as always.
@dk122trains posted:My Vision is the Big Boy in NYC gray with Dreyfuss paint scheme and wheels used on Lionel Mohawk or niagara with either pacemaker box cars or NYC reefers behind it.. Would you buy it? Fantasy sells!!!
No. If it were a Fantasy NYC Challenger, maybe. Not a Big Boy fan. Sorry Don.
Just a thought but, since EVERYTHING made for PRR and/or NYC sure seems to sell out, over and over and over, why has there never been a scale NYC K Class Pacific produced for the 3-Rail market?
@Hot Water posted:Just a thought but, since EVERYTHING made for PRR and/or NYC sure seems to sell out, over and over and over, why has there never been a scale NYC K Class Pacific produced for the 3-Rail market?
Didn't 3rd Rail or someone else produce K2 was it in either the late 1990's or early 2000's? I seem to remember someone saying some time back about something other than K4's please as the other class in question was also largely used from what I understood by there post.
@dk122trains posted:My Vision is the Big Boy in NYC gray with Dreyfuss paint scheme and wheels used on Lionel Mohawk or niagara with either pacemaker box cars or NYC reefers behind it.. Would you buy it? Fantasy sells!!!
Don, How about an actual NYC Mallet? Paint it anyway you like, Just include one in prototypical black. That might actually make me buy a new Lionel locomotive again.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nyc1933.jpg
Pete
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Didn't 3rd Rail or someone else produce K2 was it in either the late 1990's or early 2000's?
Maybe, but that would have been a PRR locomotive. Please note that I was referring to an NYC, i.e. New York Central K Class Pacific (K5?).
I seem to remember someone saying some time back about something other than K4's please as the other class in question was also largely used from what I understood by there post.
Again, you are referring to PRR locomotives and NOT NYC locomotives.
@Norton posted:Don, How about an actual NYC Mallet? Paint it anyway you like, Just include one in prototypical black.
http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/nyc1933.jpg
Pete
I would go for that too Pete. I know that the USRA one they produced a few years back wasn't exactly the model to the prototype, I forget what the differences were exactly, but that's okay. I wish they would get to the Mallet as well as some of the other switchers that they had. I think somewhere I read they had some 0-8-8-0's to go along with some of the other engines in their switchers.
@Hot Water posted:
Ah, that is what I couldn't remember, K5's. That's what it was. I think I crossed my railroads yet again. Lionel did the N&W K's, that's what was sticking in my head. Thanks for clearing that up.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I would go for that too Pete. I know that the USRA one they produced a few years back wasn't exactly the model to the prototype, I forget what the differences were exactly, but that's okay. I wish they would get to the Mallet as well as some of the other switchers that they had. I think somewhere I read they had some 0-8-8-0's to go along with some of the other engines in their switchers.
They had those too Dave. NU-1b. Both are pretty homely but unique. The front engine is the big difference on the NS-2 2-6-6-2’s from the USRA 2-6-6-2.
https://www.railarchive.net/ny...ction/ple9090_wk.htm
I considered modifying one but would require a lot of scratch built parts. Maybe when I am done with my current project.
Pete
@Hot Water posted:Just a thought but, since EVERYTHING made for PRR and/or NYC sure seems to sell out, over and over and over, why has there never been a scale NYC K Class Pacific produced for the 3-Rail market?
Agreed another void not filled for NYC.
Not sure if Lionel got the triplex tooling from MTH, but if they did, it would be really cool. Either way, I wouldn't be able to afford it, but I think it would be a big seller.
@Hot Water posted:Just a thought but, since EVERYTHING made for PRR and/or NYC sure seems to sell out, over and over and over, why has there never been a scale NYC K Class Pacific produced for the 3-Rail market?
Hot Water,
I have been asking the same question for years. In my opinion, the New York Central K-Class Pacific was as significant a locomotive as the NYC Hudson. They were widely used and I think a model would sell well to the large clientele that buys New York Central.
As far as the Big Boy is concerned, I bought an MTH version years ago. I'm satisfied with it so have no reason to pay Lionel's high price for another one. The latest features aren't something I absolutely must have.
I think that the most likely buyers of the latest Big Boy are people who have gotten into the hobby recently and who want a model of the largest locomotive they can find. Plus, the tooling already exists so it's not a major investment decision for Lionel to reuse it. I suspect that most of the long-time O gauge people like myself already have a Big Boy and can't justify spending a lot of cash to replace it. I would prefer to see Lionel offering small to medium size locomotives that haven't been made previously in it's Vision Line - such as the New York Central Pacific. The small and medium-sized locomotives are also more practical to run on most people's layouts and the prices would probably be more affordable.
MELGAR
@dk122trains posted:Agreed another void not filled for NYC.
We'll have to see what comes out in the next catalog. I know that there will probably be something NYC, but will it be something we haven't seen before in O?
@Hebanator posted:Not sure if Lionel got the triplex tooling from MTH, but if they did, it would be really cool. Either way, I wouldn't be able to afford it, but I think it would be a big seller.
Well, we can speculate what toolings they got, won't know anything either until they tell us or produce something. I'm not a fan of the Triplex, but I can see it's draw for some as it is an oddball looking engine.
@MELGAR posted:I suspect that most of the long-time O gauge people like myself already have a Big Boy and can't justify spending a lot of cash to replace it. I would prefer to see Lionel offering small to medium size locomotives that haven't been made previously in it's Vision Line - such as the New York Central Pacific. The small and medium-sized locomotives are also more practical to run on most people's layouts and the prices would probably be more affordable.
MELGAR
There are going to be a bunch of folks who didn't get the BB earlier, for whatever reason, or may now have layouts that can accomodate them, perhaps. There's also a market for people with deep pockets, who can afford to spend $3000 for a shelf display. Lots of folks keep their collections of trains on display most of the time anyway, and if you were to add up the price of a number of those engines on display, it's way more than $3000. So probably the idea of a BB sitting on a shelf isn't so off-beat. To a lot of fans, it's art, and they get enjoyment out of just looking at it. I can understand that.
I entirely agree, though, with the point of offering small and medium-size locomotives, and that they obviously more practical to run for the largest market (including at a more approachable price). Most people don't have layouts that begin to approach the size you need for even scale Northerns, let alone things like E units and 21" passengers cars or freight cars over 50' or Big Boys. The popularity of the "48" club gives insight to the reality.
If Lionel does another Vision re-run, I would think another NYC Hudson would be on the short list. Yes, people groan that the last thing we need is another Hudson, but the earlier Vision Hudson was a big seller, and remains in high demand. They are extremely hard to find in the marketplace. Saw one on the Bay, new, asking $3800/offer plus $85 shipping.
The Lionel scale T1 Duplex is even harder to find and it's only TMCC! I'd love to see a vision line version of that one.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:The Lionel scale T1 Duplex is even harder to find and it's only TMCC! I'd love to see a vision line version of that one.
With wheels that you don't have to taper down so they don't derail on Ross track switches.
@breezinup posted:If Lionel does another Vision re-run, I would think another NYC Hudson would be on the short list. Yes, people groan that the last thing we need is another Hudson, but the earlier Vision Hudson was a big seller, and remains in high demand. They are extremely hard to find in the marketplace.
Yes, but use the KLine j1e tooling this time. So it's a more respectable scale model.
I just couldn't get past the welded steam chests, rectangular valve guides, lack of builders plates etc. In order to buy one.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:With wheels that you don't have to taper down so they don't derail on Ross track switches.
Yes, there's no reason to use those racing slicks on the blind wheels!
Okay, so I finally got to watch the Trainworld Live event with Lionel, and here is something I did not know that Ryan and Dave had said(maybe before, IDK). They said that new Vision Line Locomotives would be even years, like 2018(Niagara), 2020(GS Series), 2022(Class A), the odd years would be a chance for repeat productions of engines that people have missed. Of course this remake engines bit didn't start until 2021 with the Santa Fe rerun of the 2-10-10-2's. Never really thought about that. Dave said that was how this would work going forward. So, we can expect repeats for the odd years, new designed engines the even years. So, I guess we get to wait for 2024's new idea that has never been done before. We can again begin the speculation, lol. 
Of course 2018 they had the Challenger in the Volume 2, I think they did that because they knew they were doing a Legacy Big Boy in the 2019 Volume 2.
That is kind of cool that will be doing re-issues every other year. If you couldn't get one the first time, now you may be able to snag one without paying double the price on secondary market for a vision line engine.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:That is kind of cool that will be doing re-issues every other year. If you couldn't get one the first time, now you may be able to snag one with paying double the price on secondary market for a vision line engine.
You'll just get to pay double the price directly to Lionel!
(I kid, I kid, I get why prices are going up and don't begrudge Lionel)
The only question that we will be asking in the odd numbered years are what will the repeats be. So I would say that there is definitely room for improvement on what has already been done to be repeated. They did a little bit with this new Big Boy, what could they strive for in other repeats?
There are tons of other desirable models, why have any repeats?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:There are tons of other desirable models, why have any repeats?
Well, I guess one reason is to fill the off time for a new VL model. I guess profits above ingenuity?
@Sean's Train Depot posted:That is kind of cool that will be doing re-issues every other year. If you couldn't get one the first time, now you may be able to snag one with paying double the price on secondary market for a vision line engine.
You only pay double the price if your that ignorant. I never pay over msrp because there is always someone willing to sell it for a reasonable price instead of trying to gouge. Case and point @zhubl just sold a legacy set for a very good price on the forum and I commend him for not taking advantage of his fellow hobbyists.
Will they ever Re-re the Vision Centepede?
@sahan posted:Will they ever Re-re the Vision Centepede?
I'm sure that they will. If you watch the Trainworld video with Lionel from Friday I think it was, Ryan was talking about Strasburg #90, the new early Challengers, and the Class A. Dave said somewhere after that I believe about the process of how every other year(even numbered years) that they come out with a new Vision Line Locomotive. He then commented about the Big Boy I believe, mentioned prior repeats. If I'm not mistaken, this was because someone had asked why every year a VL locomotive, thought it was every other year. I think that this is around the hour mark or maybe very close to it.
Trainworld Video With Lionel Big Boy and More
See that here.
@PSM posted:You'll just get to pay double the price directly to Lionel!
(I kid, I kid, I get why prices are going up and don't begrudge Lionel)
I doubt the price will be doubled from the original one. Higher probably but no where near the secondary market asking prices for Vision line engines. Some are close to triple on eBay. I’m not interested in the Big Boy but it’s cool to get a second chance every other year if you couldn’t get it the first time for whatever reason.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I doubt the price will be doubled from the original one. Higher probably but no where near the secondary market asking prices for Vision line engines. Some are close to triple on eBay. I’m not interested in the Big Boy but it’s cool to get a second chance every other year if you couldn’t get it the first time for whatever reason.
eBay is nuts with prices for older engines that have almost no electronics in them, depending on what has come out recently. There have been original Mohawks, 18009 #3000 that have been listed up to $1200. Recently there was a VL Niagara(not sure if it is still up out there) for around $2500. They had been floating around $3k or more for some time. VL Big Boys were nesting between $4k-$5k easily. No idea if they sat or if anyone paid the steep price.
As noted however, eBay is nuts, and no one should trust any prices. RickO has commented how some swoop in to buy something cheap only to resell it for a high price. Sometimes they get someone to bite, other times they have to lower it into where they are getting close to what they paid for it.
Original 2014 VL Big Boy was set up at $2700 not including dealer discounts, 2019 Legacy Big Boy $2200. I would say that this new Big Boy would easily hit $3k as a guess, but what do I know. We won't know it until it comes out in the catalog.
@Sean's Train Depot posted:I doubt the price will be doubled from the original one. Higher probably but no where near the secondary market asking prices for Vision line engines. Some are close to triple on eBay. I’m not interested in the Big Boy but it’s cool to get a second chance every other year if you couldn’t get it the first time for whatever reason.
eBay??? A 2014 edition VisionLine BigBoy is currently on the For Sale Forum for $3,300!!! One of the few Lionel offerings of the recent era that appears to have held it’s value is the original Visionline BigBoy (luckily I have the 4012 and love it). While I expect that the 2023 version will command a higher price, I have to agree with Sean that the price will not be double. My crystal ball is out for repair, but I’m guessing that the demand for a VisionLine BigBoy will still be strong if it comes in under $3,000.
