A little sneak peak inside Lionel today

Martin H posted:

They could put in a locking mechanism that would stop the pilot from swiveling, and put full-length handrails in the box, to be installed by the user as an alternative.

These would be small incremental steps that Lionel could implement affordably.  Never say never...

Lionel included spacers and screws to lock the pilots on the American Flyer SD70Ace's.  When they offered the Flyer ES44's a year later, they made no provision to lock the pilot. 

Guess they figured it wasn't worth the bother.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:

Martin H posted:

They could put in a locking mechanism that would stop the pilot from swiveling, and put full-length handrails in the box, to be installed by the user as an alternative.

These would be small incremental steps that Lionel could implement affordably.  Never say never...

Lionel included spacers and screws to lock the pilots on the American Flyer SD70Ace's.  When they offered the Flyer ES44's a year later, they made no provision to lock the pilot. 

Guess they figured it wasn't worth the bother.

Rusty

Maybe not in S scale, but O gauge is a much higher volume market, so maybe it would be worth the bother.

Only insiders at Lionel know, but since they started implementing the kinematic pilots on non-vision locos, not to mention Kadee pads on the rolling stock, I have to believe they are trying to appeal to more "scale" guys

Martin H posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

Martin H posted:

They could put in a locking mechanism that would stop the pilot from swiveling, and put full-length handrails in the box, to be installed by the user as an alternative.

These would be small incremental steps that Lionel could implement affordably.  Never say never...

Lionel included spacers and screws to lock the pilots on the American Flyer SD70Ace's.  When they offered the Flyer ES44's a year later, they made no provision to lock the pilot. 

Guess they figured it wasn't worth the bother.

Rusty

Maybe not in S scale, but O gauge is a much higher volume market, so maybe it would be worth the bother.

Only insiders at Lionel know, but since they started implementing the kinematic pilots on non-vision locos, not to mention Kadee pads on the rolling stock, I have to believe they are trying to appeal to more "wide-curve" guys

VidKidz posted:

sorry, the pilots are a deal breaker -- need them fixed with full length handrails.  look nice otherwise.

Guess, I am on the other side of the fence here. I don't begrudge anyone wishing for full "Scale" models (fixed pilots). However, those of us with limited operating space (including me), are left out with these pilots requiring larger and larger radius curves. (I have already expounded up this in another thread about "curve inflation." I would prefer having the truck mounted pilot design, allowing tighter radius curves. I am limited to 036 curves and am seeing my choices ever dwindling.

As, my previously cited example - the old K-Line Berkshires would handle 031 curves, but the newer Lionel versions require 054. Why? I ended up searching out the K-Line version because of this. Now we have SD40-2's that require 054 curves when the old version could handle 036.

Sorry, Mike, but this really cuts me out of the market for new products. It seems to me this also forces many of us out on the used market searching out what we want . I get the whole market dictates what is produced thing.

Heck, if all were perfectionists, then 3 Rail would be dead too.

Kudos, Lionel!

Martin H posted:

 

In other words, Greenrail wasn't going to buy these anyways, fixed pilot or not.

Mikado, those are great pics and good looking models.  Thanks for previewing for us!

 

How in heavens name would you know whether or not I would have bought one? That's rather presumptuous. I never said any such thing.

By the way, this is  " Hi-Rail, 027 and Traditional 3 Rail O Gauge" forum not Scale 3 rail (which is an oxymoron).

GREENRAIL posted:

By the way, this is  " Hi-Rail, 027 and Traditional 3 Rail O Gauge" forum not Scale 3 rail (which is an oxymoron).

You really should look up "oxymoron" in the dictionary, as you clearly don't know how to use it or what it means.

Please stop insulting other people's interest in o-gauge trains.

The Alco S2 switcher has fixed pilots.

GREENRAIL posted:

Guess, I am on the other side of the fence here. I don't begrudge anyone wishing for full "Scale" models (fixed pilots). However, those of us with limited operating space (including me), are left out with these pilots requiring larger and larger radius curves. (I have already expounded up this in another thread about "curve inflation." I would prefer having the truck mounted pilot design, allowing tighter radius curves. I am limited to 036 curves and am seeing my choices ever dwindling.

As, my previously cited example - the old K-Line Berkshires would handle 031 curves, but the newer Lionel versions require 054. Why? I ended up searching out the K-Line version because of this. Now we have SD40-2's that require 054 curves when the old version could handle 036.

Sorry, Mike, but this really cuts me out of the market for new products. It seems to me this also forces many of us out on the used market searching out what we want . I get the whole market dictates what is produced thing.

Heck, if all were perfectionists, then 3 Rail would be dead too.

I don't think anybody is looking for perfection. Lionel is just giving people what they want probably based on feedback they get from hobbyists.

There are lots of TMCC and LEGACY SD40-2's as you mentioned that can handle O-31 curves available on the secondary and maybe even tertiary market...Haha! I'm not sure if the latter is legal... They have great detail and operating features that these newer locomotives have and they can be had for about half the price.

These are SD40s.

These are not SD40-2s. The SD40-2s have longer frames that allow for more room on each end of the walkways.

Andrew

If they show up in March, that means I will actually have to pay for them.

Andrew

I would like to see more "sneak peaks or sneak previews" of products that are being worked on or near completion  by all manufactures. I fill this keeps the consumer and the manufactures a lot closer together. I know the consumers would eat this up. I also believe, if this would take place, the consumers would buy more items. 

Martin H posted:

GREENRAIL posted:

By the way, this is  " Hi-Rail, 027 and Traditional 3 Rail O Gauge" forum not Scale 3 rail (which is an oxymoron).

You really should look up "oxymoron" in the dictionary, as you clearly don't know how to use it or what it means.

Please stop insulting other people's interest in o-gauge trains.

Sir, with all due respect, I am not insulting anyone or their interest in O Gauge Trains. I have never posted anything on this forum insulting anyone. I have always been respectful of others with my comments.

Now,  about the word "Oxymoron." I know full well what it means. So I respectfully ask you stop attacking me by questioning my use of the word and stating I don't know what it means.

According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary:

"noun

"a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

"Full Definition

"a combination of contradictory or incongruous words (as cruel kindness); broadly something (as a concept) that is made up of contradictory or incongruous elements"

So, by its very use the term "Scale 3 rail" is an oxymoron. Since, last I looked, most railroads in North America run on two rails (except for most Subway systems, where the 3rd rail is usually outside the gauge of the main two load bearing rails.

In no way is that a slam or insult against any particular group, or for that matter anyone interested in O Gauge Trains.

Scale - to me at least, means extreme attention to detail to the most minute detail. And that's a great approach to model railroading. However the presence of a third rail is a somewhat incongruous element in that genre of Model Railroading.

With all that in mind, any further discussion on my part will be offline. Should you wish to pursue further, you may certainly communicate such discussion via e-mail.

Regardless, you still have no knowledge of what I would or would not have decided to purchase.

falconservice posted:

These are SD40s.

These are not SD40-2s. The SD40-2s have longer frames that allow for more room on each end of the walkways.

Andrew

You are right. I Stand corrected. But, still, due to the shorter platforms at each end, it still seems odd that this could not have been done with Truck Mounted pilots as the Dash 2's were.

I wonder if all 6 axles are driven...

Maybe Mike can address this whenever he posts video(s).

That Burlington Northern SD40 looks really sweet. I think the Clinchfield will probably look the best so hopefully anybody who gets one will share pictures or video.

Ugh!!!   PLEASE Mike, SD40 in Flyer! 

Ben

Very nice! Thank you!

-Eric Siegel

Mike,

Thanks for posting the pics.

The Conrail unit seems to be missing red and blue stars.

Thank you for the update and pictures. 

For comparison purposes here is the swing of the ES44AC.

The ES44AC pilot has very little swing to it. The pilot for the SD40 appears to have more swing. Lionel has stated that the SD40 will navigate 036 curves but requires newer cars equipped with articulated couplers as discussed in this link https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...onel-s-new-sd40-sd38.

Wow. Those are some awesome photos. Thanks for posting them up.

WBC posted:

t. The pilot for the SD40 appears to have more swing. Lionel has stated that the SD40 will navigate 036 curves but requires newer cars equipped with articulated couplers as discussed in this link https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...onel-s-new-sd40-sd38.

That's a good work around.  I have the Autoracks with the telescopic couplers.  How many other Lionel rolling stock issues have that?  (It's only for really long cars, right?)

The kinematic couplers are used on the 86' high cube boxcars and 89' auto racks which have a minimum curve requirement of O-54. They may allow the new SD40's to run on O-36 curves when coupled to the locomotive but the curve limitations of these cars will cancel that out.

Wow, thanks Mike for the great pictures of some of the really nice products Lionel is making. I am anxious to receive the SP and the CHESSIE that's been on order. Being an operator rather than a collector, I am sure glad I ordered early. BTO is sort of a risk, however, Lionel products look so much better in person than the catalog pictures. Legacy equipped engines are simply amazing. Keep up the good work. Your Tennessee Connection.  Oh, I ordered the smoke loader to...WOW.

I plan to get Grand Trunk Western, because the GTW was the railroad nearby. The GTW had a very small fleet of locomotives compared to other railroads, so there are not going to be too many of the GTW locos Mass Produced in O Scale or O gauge. Most of the original GTW locos and the locos from the DT&I merger are so few in numbers they would have to be custom painted.

Andrew 

Great looking sneak peaks!   Hoping a Seaboard System & Family Lines SD40 will be produced.  I have 2 each of the current SD40 and SD35 offerings on order and can't wait to receive them.

Hi all, 

Making two posts with the video. The files are a bit big, but as promised, here they are! This video is the SP SD40, we wanted to show off the cool lighting functions of this one, including the functionality of the emergency stop red light up front. As you can see the top LED's function as MARS lights, while the bottom pairs are the directional headlights. Also some good footage of the pilots negotiating an O72 curve, as you can see they pretty much stay in a fixed position, as you get into tighter curves they begin to pivot towards the inside of the curves. Hope you enjoy them!

Okay, videos are too large for the forum server, so I have to link you away! 

SD40 video is here; SP SD40 Operation Video

Smoke Fluid Loader video is here; Smoke Fluid Loader Teaser Video

Mike

Here is the second post referring you back to the post above! 

Thanks for the videos Mike!

If you right click on your youtube video, copy the url. Click on the filmstrip picture at the top of your post box paste it in the source box and click OK and viola. For folks who need more instant gratification ( if you happen to change it I'll delete this)

Very cool! The SD40 smokes like a champ. You think he was using Mega-Steam? 

Thanks for posting these, Mike

Your video showing the kinematic pilots in action is a welcome sight. It really helps appearances without sacrificing performance. I believe the catalog said the pilots were pre-drilled to accept Kadee couplers. Is that right? if so, what number Kadee is best? 806? 805?  

Glad to hear these are on the way. Thanks for doing them in GTW as well.

Thanks for the preview, the SD40s are gorgeous and the kinematic pilot is fantastic!

It's always encouraging to see your posts and know that someone with both an interest and some authority is listening.  We're all guilty of some whining, from time to time, but only because the hobby is so important to us and demands a substantial commitment in time, space and treasure.

A B&O, CGW or even a CNW unit would find a home with me.

I don't have a dog in this fight but my perception is that a lot of people in the hobby don't know what and where Lionel is going in the market. I would say  this is a sales/marketing problem.

catnap posted:

The SD40s look fantastic!  Wow...I can't wait to see what my 2 Chessie SD40s look like.

Hopefully a 2nd run is being planned. I would love to see B&O, C&O and/or Western Maryland units. I'm not sure if my credit card would though.

Western Maryland for the win!!

Wow, and thanks much Mike for this excellent product update. You have to love those SD40 light, smoke and sound features. And I thought I didn't have any interest in this model . . .

Mike,

  Thanks for the pics and update, I have two BNs on order.  Look forward to getting them.

Guys,

As far as the fixed pilot goes, I'm big on scale models and usually buy the MTH 2-rail models and operate as 3-rail.  I found it difficult to buy Lionel diesels because of the work I had to put into them to make the look like a scale model.  I had to fix the pilot, mount a Kadee coupler, move in the trucks in and put on full length handrail. 

These new Lionel engines however are a big step in making it much easier to convert to full scale models.  The kinematic pilot removes the need to fill the gap and all you need to do to fix it is drill a hole and put a screw in it.  You don't even need to tap the hole if you use a machine screw.  Simple. 

These engine also have a mount for the Kadees, so its a simple task to remove the hi-rail coupler and add a scale coupler.   No need to shim and fill in the hole since it appears to be a smaller opening than usual.

The trucks in the photos look like they are recessed and accurate like the prototype so no work there. Very nice.

And the details look good and accurate as promised.

The only change that is not so easy is making the handrails full length.  Even so its not that hard.  In short, you remove the existing handrails (easy), then use piano wire and bend it to match the shape of the original handrails, then just extend them down with a 90 degree angle on the end to the steps.  A small hole can be drilled into the step sidewalls to mount the end.  A can of model spray paint can paint them.

So my point is its not that hard to make them look full scale.  For me its part of the hobby.  To be honest though, if MTH made these SD40s in two rail I would have bought them even thought I think the Lionels run better at slow speeds and have much better sound.  So I'm kinda of glad though, because when I'm done converting these, they will have the best of both worlds, and be the best SD40 I can have.

If I ever get my new video done, it will show how to do these conversions.

Rich