Actual wiring diagram for Lionel 3451 log car

The only difference between the 3451 and the 3461 were the coil couplers on the 3451.  If you look at the parts explosion of the 3461 you will notice that all of the part numbers are 3451-xx.

On the 3451 there is a flat bronze spring that contacts the top of the sliding shoe rivet. The bronze spring attaches to the fiber strip on the back of the coil coupler.   There is a wire from the coil coupler and the wire from the dump coil terminal strip attached to the spring at this point.  When the RCS ‘“uncouple” button is pushed, both sliding shoes have center rail power applied to them causing the couplers to open. But this puts no voltage across the coil, so the car does not dump. When the RCS “unload” button is pushed, one sliding shoe is connected to central power and the other sliding shoe is connected to outside rail. This puts voltage across the coil and the car dumps.  This also causes one coupler to uncouple. 

In my experience with this car, in addition to the insulation falling off the wires, the problem could be that there is a poor connection where the spring sits on top of the sliding shoe rivet.  This is not easy to clean up and usually requires removing the trucks from the car and sometimes taking the trucks apart.   You could try contact cleaner and see if it fixes the problem. 

I Know the part #s are the same. Also how to troubleshoot poor connections. The wiring diagram for the 3461 shows how that car is wired not the 3451 it is different. Can any one send me a diagram sowing the 3451?

The 3451 and 3461 are exactly the same, with the noted exception of the 3451 having electro-magnetic couplers.

I'm guessing you are getting confused about the potential additional NTC-1 wiring which is self contained:

Are you telling me this wiring diagram for the 3461 is the same as the 3451?

It matches this image of a 3451:

And here is the 3461:

This is a great image of a 3451 and it is different than the diagram you sent of the 3461. The picture is hard to see the actual wiring sequence.

Thanks Terry

To my eyes, both cars pictured above seem to match the provided wiring diagram:

In reality, the specifics do not matter as long as each contact strip has one shoe wire and one coil wire.

Thank You for your help. I am still digesting what you have said.  I have this thing in my mind that the 2 are different because of the coil couplers.

Terry

Here is a schematic of a 3451 on a RCS:

Thanks Rob

The black car in Bmoran4 pic the shoe plates were put on wrong. The shoes should always be inward so both touch a control rail.

Chuck Sartor posted:

The black car in Bmoran4 pic the shoe plates were put on wrong. The shoes should always be inward so both touch a control rail.

Chuck, usually you are spot on, but this time I have to disagree with you.

Here are some more shots scrounged up online:

In addition, @ADCX Rob posted the RCS diagram, and corroborates the alternating shoe position as the car's contemporary RCS/1019 has uninterrupted control rails fur the full length.

Looks like you are right. I retract my statement.