Already bored to tears with my layout

Read layout books, track plan books, and the famous Track Planning for Realistic Operation. Find a track plan or design one you like.

Look for the threads started by John C. further down in this sub-forum. They are good reading.

Yours is not a bad layout for starters. The main thing it is lacking is a purpose. Trains don't just run. They take people and goods from place to place. Dream up some 'places' at different points of your layout and think of what things might be loaded there, or what people might get on board, and where they might go. Then make your trains do that.

Doing some reading on actual railroad operations is good for coming up with ideas. Browse back issues of Trains magazine. Definitely check out "Track Planning for Realistic Operation" by John Armstrong.

First thing I would do is  get  it up off the floor... Create a new loop around the   room, single track around the whole room about a foot wide with a couple of  spurs and one siding. (no reaching over anything). Get rid of the middle stuff...  Maybe  have  a few buildings ,crossing gates, scenery , nice comfortable chair and small work bench...   work some nice curves into the straight ways.

1. Like the other's say raise it up off the floor and on to a nice table

2. Create a town and tell it's story with your trains

Even boring layouts can be quite enjoyable with friends, coffee, beer, treats and just general BS sessions.

Steve

I appreciate the problem. That said I think your layout is great!

Mine is simpler. But doing the scenery was the most fun part. I also find making videos with an action cam a lot of fun, trying to make the trains look as realistic as possible.

So, by all means, get it off the floor and start checking out how to do scenery . . . mountain tunnel . . . grades . . . some water . . . trees and ground cover. I also found structures from craftsman kits a lot of fun. Learning how to weather them, etc, etc.

Just watching trains go round a flat surface gets old very quickly.

A table is an obvious start so you can sit and watch the trains. The layout I'm working on is much simpler but I've got so many projects going I keep switching around from buildings, to balasting, scenery and cleaning/adjusting the bunch of postwar accessories I've acquired.

I'd be very bored just watching them go around--try to mix it up. Keep up interest in the railroad by switching tasks.

https://www.amazon.com/Track-P...roader/dp/0890242275

https://www.amazon.com/Railroa...t-Does/dp/0911382046

https://www.amazon.com/Classic...roader/dp/0890244170

Written by an absolute model railroading genius and have given me ideas for the past 30 years of my model railroad journey. 

Your track plan looks pretty good to me. You have 2 loops of track, sidings, spurs, two reverse loops and crossovers. That is a lot of the things that most people want to have. 

I would do as others suggest, get it up off the floor and on to a table. If you have room, make the table with expansion in mind so you can easily add on to it in the future.

Also some scenery, maybe some operating accessories, lighting, crossing gates, roads, cars etc. would add a lot to your existing layout plan. Railroads need a purpose, you need places to pick up goods and other places to deliver the goods.

I am struggling with some of the same things you are and I am by no means an expert. There are folks here that know a lot about these things and are willing to help, but I can't make up my mind exactly what I want to do. I have added some accessories recently, gantry crane and culvert loader & unloader. This adds something to do and has helped liven things up a little.

I am still stuck on how to expand my track plan, but I continue to work on it and watch the folks here as they build and add to their layouts. All of this takes a while to learn and construct so patience is also something we need to have.

Hang in there and good luck!

You mentioned doing scenery.  That would certainly make things more interesting, not to mention the mere construction of scenery will keep you occupied.  And as others have said, get it up off the floor.

For what it's worth, I've built scenicked  layouts in the past.  But when the scenery work was completed I felt compelled to do more.  So some things were torn apart and rebuilt into different scenes.  What I have found is that the layout I most enjoyed was one loaded with operating accessories.  This may not appeal to anyone who wants a true scale model railroad however.  

IMO, it appears that the goal of your layout was to place the maximum amount of track per sq.ft.

John C's threads are a good place to start your exposure of a railroad with a purpose. That should increase your interest. 

Your kids are another problem. Today's kids have been bombarded with interactive games to the extent that model railroading, even the best out there, is far from the mark. That said, if at least one of your children have an artistic slate, they might be more engaged as you design buildings and scenery.

How old are the kids?  I ask because, obviously, a kid's interests will vary with age, as will his/her abilities.

For example, are you children old enough to assist in building a table?  Wiring?  Assembling structures?  Painting animal and people figures?  Etc.?

Also, are you opposed to operating accessories?  I ask because most kids enjoy them--but will you?

Good luck.

You could add operating accessories if more activity is needed to hold your interest. But, in my opinion, your track plan is basically fine as it is. You have continuous mainline running, switching operations, and can run two trains simultaneously, so there's already quite a bit of action. Much of the fun of model railroading is in designing and making scenery, structures, towns, roads and industries to create a realistic model of a railroad, and that's what I think you don't have right now. Watching the trains pass through realistic scenery and towns is interesting. You could transfer the track plan to a table as is, but I think you should change the orientation of the stub-ended tracks to make them parallel to the long straightaways. This would create more space in the middle of the layout for scenery such as a mountain or a town. Some other possibilities are:

1) Elevate the inner loop.

2) Create terrain, build or buy a bridge and make the track cross over a river or a road.

3) Build a mountain and have the tracks pass through a tunnel.

4) Put a station along the tracks. Stop the trains at the station.

5) Pave some roads and place vehicles on them.

6) Add a signaling system including crossing gates and lights.

I have been working on my current layout for almost three years. It's only 10'-by-5' with a single loop because that's all the room I have. But doing all of the above keeps me involved.

MELGAR

I would convert it to a point to point layout where the trains run partially around the perimeter then duck into the center with two reverse loops taking advantage  of some spectacular tunnels.  Plan at least one long passing track so you can run two trains point to point and meet en route.  Then use all those other switches to produce freight sidings and a passenger and freight yard.  Above all, avoid having a train running round and round a perimeter.  

And yes, get it off the ground.  You might want to incorporate a second level either accessible from the first level, or a separate theme layout in and of itself.

Lew Schneider

BPARS,

it's NOT about the track plan, yours is just fine. If you decide it's not for you, alter it. That will be a challenge, too. I've done a layout or two in my time and just running trains around does get boring. Here are some suggestions:

1) Forget the kids for a little while and make this about your therapy. If you can, raise that layout up to at least 36".

2) Buy a couple of Menards or Woodland Scenics buildings. You will quickly see their detail suddenly makes the layout 3D. Buy some cars and trucks and some people and just plop them down around the buildings.

3) Switch some cars into the sidings and load them with whatever is at hand.

4) Bring the kids back and show them the changes. You'll be amazed.

I built bench-work and laid down a flat layout 14 months ago. However, the first layout was to have something for my Grandson at Christmas. I already had a final plan in place when I built the bench-work. IMO, the trains should not return on the same track every time they go around. Elevation changes help this happen and increase the interest factor.

Besides getting the layout off of the floor, what made a difference for me was a chapter from Model Railroading With MTH Electric Trains (Rod Adelman) titled The Dispatcher Game.  It is a good intro to realistic railroading and gives the railroad some purpose.  Basically you establish cities or towns (real or imaginary) and determine the number of laps your train must make to get there to drop off or pick up cars based on the industry.  You could get your kids involved to help develop your train order on paper and assign duties such as engineer (run train), switch tower (operate switches at passes and during yard operations) and you be the conductor (count laps & announce arrivals).  Including an accessory or two as others suggested can add interest for the kids too.

BPARS,

   You have a great layout, If you want more interest start building some multipule levels, with operating rolling stock, buildings and DCS/Legacy Control, lots of cool ways to keep things interesting, half the fun is in the building of multi-Level layouts.

PCRR/Dave

Add an MTH Pittsburgh, Pa Street Car with P2 Auto function that announces all the stops, and automatically starts and stops at each destination, with all the real Pittsburgh, Pa sound effects, including Frank's actual voice Announcements, via DCS Auto Control.  

The addition of some action orientated operating accessories would be a good place to start.  Based on the number of switches (turnouts) you should have plenty or action moving trains between tracks.

?? A Roundhouse/Turntable.  ?? Mouse over and click on the triangle.

BPARS - I happen to generally disagree with much of the conventional wisdom in terms of how to stay interested in a layout.  I'm not in my golden years, don't enjoy fixing things that don't function the way they should upon arrival, and can't immerse myself into a fantasy that allows me to see a toy train go in a circle, arrive at the same station over and over again and get excited that in my mind the train is moving from station to station down the line.  A turntable is a nicety, but watching it go round and round has only so much appeal, given the point is just to put a locomotive back on the main line to go round and round back to that same station that didn't really hold my interest for long to start with.  I used to enjoy watching the warp in my vinyl records as they'd go round the turntable when I as 8 - that wore off too.   

Having said all that, I think the enjoyment for anyone who requires some intellectual stimulation, is purpose - as John Armstrong and Linn Westcott will tell you in their many published articles and books.  A yard that actually functions as a yard in terms of creating pre-ordered consists.  Sidings where cars from that consist can be dropped off and retrieved by another train.  A schedule where the turntable takes locomotives out of service and replaces them with others - all for pre-defined schedule or purpose.  Oh, and risk factors - like needing to side a slow moving train to allow a hot shot to pass, or a grade crossing where you need to ensure scheduling before a collision between two trains occurs.  All of this also has the benefit of a multi-player scenario, which always makes things more fun in my mind.

The difference?  One requires imagination to "imagine" things that aren't there - and this holds interest only so long, at least for me.  The other puts you in the driver's seat and in a control position - both in deciding what will happen and then in its execution.

Just my two cents...

Peter  

Start to think in terms of producing and consuming industries.

For example...

• The sawmill ships lumber to the lumber yard.
• The lumber yard ships lumber to the Furniture Factory.
• The dairy farm ships tanks cars of milk to the dairy in town.
• The coal mine ships coal to the power plant.
• etc.

Start building scenery, buildings, etc. I have a small layout and sometimes I just let the trains run and other times I do switching and train movements. Keeps the interest level up. A second level, operating accessories, etc, help too.

MELGAR posted:

You could add operating accessories if more activity is needed to hold your interest. But, in my opinion, your track plan is basically fine as it is. You have continuous mainline running, switching operations, and can run two trains simultaneously, so there's already quite a bit of action. Much of the fun of model railroading is in designing and making scenery, structures, towns, roads and industries to create a realistic model of a railroad, and that's what I think you don't have right now. Watching the trains pass through realistic scenery and towns is interesting. You could transfer the track plan to a table as is, but I think you should change the orientation of the stub-ended tracks to make them parallel to the long straightaways. This would create more space in the middle of the layout for scenery such as a mountain or a town. Some other possibilities are:

1) Elevate the inner loop.

2) Create terrain, build or buy a bridge and make the track cross over a river or a road.

3) Build a mountain and have the tracks pass through a tunnel.

4) Put a station along the tracks. Stop the trains at the station.

5) Pave some roads and place vehicles on them.

6) Add a signaling system including crossing gates and lights.

I have been working on my current layout for almost three years. It's only 10'-by-5' with a single loop because that's all the room I have. But doing all of the above keeps me involved.

MELGAR

Okay compare your 

BPars posted:

I'm looking for some advice....I hate to admit it but I am already bored with my month old layout. It was nice when the kids were interested and wanted to sit on the floor and "race" the trains around the track but now they are over it while I'm just getting started.  I knew this layout would be temporary but I didn't realize how quickly it would fade.

I was hoping to get some advice on how best to design a layout that will hold my interest. Something more prototypical, I guess. I see many pictures of cool layouts on here but not sure how to start over with what I have already.

I currently have accumulated , 10 O72 switches, 6 O36 switches, full circles of O72, O60, O48 and O36. 22 1/2 degree crossover, 45 degree crossover, 2 90 degree crossovers and a bizillion straights of various lengths. All fastrack. 

Any ideas on how to turn this mess of parts into an interesting layout would be greatly appreciated. 

Look at the two layouts. Your positives are you have more room, more switching his has smaller layout but more appealing as it has scenery and buildings. It gives his layout a purpose. that's all you need to do. once you start adding buildings like station, factory, homes it starts giving your layout a purpose and the boredom will go away. 

you have a very nice layout there. Work it and it will come around. Enjoy it. 

Bill,

In my opinion, your comment about the two railroads is spot on...

MELGAR

Pingman posted:

How old are the kids?  I ask because, obviously, a kid's interests will vary with age, as will his/her abilities.

For example, are you children old enough to assist in building a table?  Wiring?  Assembling structures?  Painting animal and people figures?  Etc.?

Also, are you opposed to operating accessories?  I ask because most kids enjoy them--but will you?

Good luck.

 

They are 11, 9 and 6.  Not really old enough to help me with building the layout. But I like your idea of getting some operating accessories to help hold their interest

I want to thank everyone who has replied to this thread thread. I very truly appreciate it.  From all the replies  there are a few things I need to do right away. Build a table to get it off the floor. Start reading books and John's threads. And start adding scenery and accessories. Thanks again for all your insights. 

BPARS I just sent you an email 

Bill

I did the same exact thing,  when my boys were small. The interest was never re-sparked to much of a degree.

I learned, as others, that an interesting model railroad has to have a railroad with a purpose ... a job to do.  Just having a lot of track and switches does not do that.

Pick an industry, with sidings dedicated to a particular type of rolling stock. And, another pace where the rolling stock comes from / goes to.  And scenic both places .... with other scenery between them.

Train time together with the kids is performing the train's job that day, and improving the scenery/small buildings.

Lance Mindheim, in his small books, illustrates the idea ... but in small, smaller-scale layouts.

My 2 cents. Good luck.

rtraincollector posted:

BPARS I just sent you an email 

 

Bill

Hi Bill I can't seem to find your email. Can you resend it? Thanks.  

BPars posted:

Pingman posted:

How old are the kids?  I ask because, obviously, a kid's interests will vary with age, as will his/her abilities.

For example, are you children old enough to assist in building a table?  Wiring?  Assembling structures?  Painting animal and people figures?  Etc.?

Also, are you opposed to operating accessories?  I ask because most kids enjoy them--but will you?

Good luck.

 

They are 11, 9 and 6.  Not really old enough to help me with building the layout. But I like your idea of getting some operating accessories to help hold their interest

Granted, they can't build a layout.  But, the 11 year old can surely help you measure something before you make a cut.  He can help you select the right screw you need. 

The 9 year old can hand you tools and learn what they are used for.  And electricity can be taught with wiring.

My point is simply that including the kids in "building the layout" is much more than simply doing the job--a big part of it is "helping DAD" do it. 

PJB posted:

BPARS - I happen to generally disagree with much of the conventional wisdom in terms of how to stay interested in a layout.  I'm not in my golden years, don't enjoy fixing things that don't function the way they should upon arrival, and can't immerse myself into a fantasy that allows me to see a toy train go in a circle, arrive at the same station over and over again and get excited that in my mind the train is moving from station to station down the line.  A turntable is a nicety, but watching it go round and round has only so much appeal, given the point is just to put a locomotive back on the main line to go round and round back to that same station that didn't really hold my interest for long to start with.  I used to enjoy watching the warp in my vinyl records as they'd go round the turntable when I as 8 - that wore off too.   

Having said all that, I think the enjoyment for anyone who requires some intellectual stimulation, is purpose - as John Armstrong and Linn Westcott will tell you in their many published articles and books.  A yard that actually functions as a yard in terms of creating pre-ordered consists.  Sidings where cars from that consist can be dropped off and retrieved by another train.  A schedule where the turntable takes locomotives out of service and replaces them with others - all for pre-defined schedule or purpose.  Oh, and risk factors - like needing to side a slow moving train to allow a hot shot to pass, or a grade crossing where you need to ensure scheduling before a collision between two trains occurs.  All of this also has the benefit of a multi-player scenario, which always makes things more fun in my mind.

The difference?  One requires imagination to "imagine" things that aren't there - and this holds interest only so long, at least for me.  The other puts you in the driver's seat and in a control position - both in deciding what will happen and then in its execution.

Just my two cents...

Peter  

Peter, I like what you are saying a lot. Do you have an example of what your layout  is like so I can get an idea of what you are talking about?

That trackwork looks good and unique.

FWIW, I would

• as stated above, get it off the floor and put it on a table or bench
• I would get some3' high cardboard/posterboard/gatorboard and make a scenic divider following the diagonal track right across the table so you DON'T see the trains all the time
• make one side of the divider the originating industries for loads out [ as Rich Melvin Stated above in his post]
• Make the other side the receiving end [loads in]
• Where the passing siding is, make that inside a tunnel or below an elevated station and that area a city scene
• the opposite side can be an imaginary but an important junction for your rr. [ add a tower, a storage shed, some signals]

I hope this helps!

As is, your trackplan has interesting possibilities. As others have posted, imagine different industries and their customers. If you consider your layout as "curved space" folded over upon itself, (just to bring Einstein into it for a moment) you have two separate yards in your inner loop, and two potential stations on your outer loop, even though everything seems jammed together.

One yard can be used to make up trains while a scheduled passenger train runs around your outer stations, aka your passing loops. Parking your passenger train allows you to run the train that you just made up on the outer loop and do a few circuits, returning to the inner loop.

Once there, your freight delivers its cars to the other yard in your inner loop, aka the other "end" of the line. A siding or two off those outside passing loops will give you more variety for car deliveries. Make up some tabs to place on top of the freight cars that match different destinations on the layout. Next thing you know, you just spent an hour switching cars.

Using scenery dividers and other visual tricks will make your "curved space" seem like miles of railroad. And yes, get the layout up on legs.

BPars posted:

rtraincollector posted:

BPARS I just sent you an email 

 

Bill

Hi Bill I can't seem to find your email. Can you resend it? Thanks.  

Woops I sent it to Melgar lol. You don't have a Email in your Profile. 

BPars posted:

PJB posted:

BPARS - I happen to generally disagree with much of the conventional wisdom in terms of how to stay interested in a layout.  I'm not in my golden years, don't enjoy fixing things that don't function the way they should upon arrival, and can't immerse myself into a fantasy that allows me to see a toy train go in a circle, arrive at the same station over and over again and get excited that in my mind the train is moving from station to station down the line.  A turntable is a nicety, but watching it go round and round has only so much appeal, given the point is just to put a locomotive back on the main line to go round and round back to that same station that didn't really hold my interest for long to start with.  I used to enjoy watching the warp in my vinyl records as they'd go round the turntable when I as 8 - that wore off too.   

Having said all that, I think the enjoyment for anyone who requires some intellectual stimulation, is purpose - as John Armstrong and Linn Westcott will tell you in their many published articles and books.  A yard that actually functions as a yard in terms of creating pre-ordered consists.  Sidings where cars from that consist can be dropped off and retrieved by another train.  A schedule where the turntable takes locomotives out of service and replaces them with others - all for pre-defined schedule or purpose.  Oh, and risk factors - like needing to side a slow moving train to allow a hot shot to pass, or a grade crossing where you need to ensure scheduling before a collision between two trains occurs.  All of this also has the benefit of a multi-player scenario, which always makes things more fun in my mind.

The difference?  One requires imagination to "imagine" things that aren't there - and this holds interest only so long, at least for me.  The other puts you in the driver's seat and in a control position - both in deciding what will happen and then in its execution.

Just my two cents...

Peter  

Peter, I like what you are saying a lot. Do you have an example of what your layout  is like so I can get an idea of what you are talking about?

We were a little like you in our first attempt.  Approximately 100' double main lines with reversing loops and one long staging track. Over-under with a couple of nice tunnels.  Kids would play with it for 10-15 minutes and get bored to tears. Me too. Not much to do other than race. I had read Armstrong's books but didn't really appreciate his points on purpose and play value.  It was our first layout.  

Not hard to imagine, we are now dismantling our 16x33 layout and replacing it with a much more thought-out smaller (16x19) layout.  And 11 years old is the perfect age for children to get very involved. My twin boys are now 12 and, while they helped build the first layout, they will be doing much more this time, so this will truly be a memorable father-son project.   

I am going to post my proposed new layout plan shortly for others with more experience to (hopefully) provide feedback. 

Suggest you also pick up books by Armstrong.  Easy reads and tons of ideas. After reading his books, I recall marveling at how so many people build incredibly simple layouts with little real play value, even when they have the necessary space to build something amazing. Just my two cents ...

Peter

Half the fun is building the layout, before you get it off of the floor. Mess around with a new track plan. Before you start cutting the wood.