anybody else here lack space for 2 rail?

Mike,

No room for more than a couple of display cases.  Joined a club and now I'd like to think I'm affiliated with a second club, http://coloradooscale.org/

ChipR

Try a switching diorama - you might be surprised about how much activity can be stuffed into a small space. Remember, even mailine articulated steam locomotives did set-outs.

I'm in the exact same position and have been for some time.  MY advice - joint the club and keep building up your skills and equipment for when you get the opportunity.  I'm amazed at what I have learned and how much my skills have improved through joining the club.  Plus, I met a lot of like minded guys who are fun to be around. 

I may just do that, no room for a switching layout right now, have to see what that club has to offer.  I have all the 2 rail stuff on consignment with no takers both here and at the LHS I have it consigned at down in Indy. Mike

Yes, it's tough to do without building a switching layout or joining an O scale club. Basement-filling trackplans are the norm with 2R and 3RS track radii, which is part of the reason I'm trying O 3-rail, with 0-42 standard radius on 0-27 track profile. No scale-length passenger cars here, but I hope for an overall decent look with big rumbly trains in a smaller space. Tinplatish-ness is also rearing its shiny head........

I had small O switching layouts for years, and even then had radius troubles, but I was using O scale British prototype with chain-couplings and buffers. That creates interesting problems on tighter curves

I actually would have room for a large layout in my basement for 2 rail, but opted against it because I don't have the time or the money to build a completed layout in that size space. Instead I decided to work on a switching layout that is 3 feet by 19 feet. Obviously I can't run trains in a loop, but I have a ton of switching options. I figure I have 20+ spotting locations. I can bring a 4 or 5 car train from the staging area and spend 30 minutes switching.

This gives me a manageable size layout to work on - from both time and cost perspective.

Well sure, and I bet a lot of us are in the same boat. However, one of the things I like best about O scale is that, unlike some of the smaller scales, I can actually tinker with my stuff, set up a temporary test track when the mood strikes, and see how badly I messed things up!

Mark in Oregon

My available table space is 4 x 7, folds up against a wall into a frame I built.  Has Lionel 3 rail postwar style layout on it.  Didnt think I could do anything satisfying in 2 rail in that space.

Switching deck would be a good option. You can put it along a wall in the den or garage. If you have a corner, sometimes you can bend it around a corner, depending on the room size. I've seen some designs where the layout was done as an enclosed diorama. I've done several designs between 12 and 16 feet using RR-TRack (I find designing them a nice mental exercise). The trick is to incorporate complimentary industries like an Ice House, a Packing House, and a box factory (or fuel dealer) for citrus or produce.

I'm building a switching layout based on John Allen's Timesaver design.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timesaver

It's 5.1 metres long, but it could be made to fit into 4 metres.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/t...73#44510795592058273

That space is still do-able in O scale if you stick with switching and small locos and rolling stock. Think 4-4-0s or tank engines, 44-tonners, rail-buses and 36' reefers and boxcars, even a McKeen railcar. Kalmbach's 'Classic Railroads You Can Model" had the Virginia & Truckee wye terminus at Minden, NV in roughly 4 x 7' for O scale, and if there's room for an add-on swing-out 'fiddle yard',  you're in business. http://tinyurl.com/nsuyl6o 

The only engines I have access to that I like, is the F7 I own, and possibly an old NW2.   The F unit needs large radius curves due to the drive system it has.   The NW2 might do better. 

artfull dodger posted:

The only engines I have access to that I like, is the F7 I own, and possibly an old NW2.   The F unit needs large radius curves due to the drive system it has.   The NW2 might do better. 

The NW2 (if that's the All-Nation engine) will go around a 28" radius.  You can certainly run 36-40 freight cars as well.  As for pass cars, you can go to a somewhat earlier era of car and be at 50' or shorter quite reasonably.

Actually, the All Nation NW2 will negotiate slightly less than a 24 radius curve. In my early days in O 2 rail (1973) I layed some track around a 4' x 8' piece of Homasote.  The NW2 would go round easily pulling forty foot freight cars with body mounted Kadee couplers.  The AN NW2 is a simple model  but properly assembled they run like a good watch.

Joe Foehrkolb

To afford that NW2 the shop has, I would have to sell my F7.  And there has been no interest in it.  Thats why I was leaning toward just joining a club so I could use it as I already have it. I have no plans to change my Lionel layout to 2 rail. I might do an elevated 2 rail loop in the garden some day though. 

artfull dodger posted:

My available table space is 4 x 7, folds up against a wall into a frame I built.  Has Lionel 3 rail postwar style layout on it.  Didnt think I could do anything satisfying in 2 rail in that space.

Dodger:

I didn't see this post when I initially responded. Is your 4'x7' space a limit for a permanent setup? If you can expand outward, you could do a switching deck in sections that fold out. In my illustration, the layout can be bisected into two six-foot sections (which is what I was looking at doing if I built it). Of course, the one photo that illustrates this is buried somewhere on my computer's disk, but the other alternative is to build something based on several 1'x4' H.O. switching plans. When scaled up, to O scale (multiply by 1.8125) they're about 20"x90". Here are some candidates that would likely fit your space restrictions:

rrjjf posted:

Actually, the All Nation NW2 will negotiate slightly less than a 24 radius curve. In my early days in O 2 rail (1973) I layed some track around a 4' x 8' piece of Homasote.  The NW2 would go round easily pulling forty foot freight cars with body mounted Kadee couplers.  The AN NW2 is a simple model  but properly assembled they run like a good watch.

Joe Foehrkolb

Thanks, Joe.  I've not had the opportunity to run mine on that tight a curve,   Totally concur on their running virtues. 

Also, these generally can be found for very reasonable prices.

That space is set in stone and cannot be expanded. In fact it folds shut against the wall when not in use, kind of like a murphy bed.  I have a 1x10 frame work mounted to the wall that the layout shuts against.  That gives me enough depth that most of the buildings, signals ect can remain mounted to the layout.   I do not plan on changing that table from Lionel to 2 rail.  Mike

An All Nation F-7 that cannot be sold?  I think if you offer to trade straight across for an NW-2 with eight wheel drive you will get takers - especially if the F-7 has eight wheel drive and runs well.

Good topic and excellent ideas for limited space which can keep someone busy switching cars at different industries.

The old AHM switchers were good enough, but suitable mostly for lightweight and free-rolling cars. Now going for what I consider stupid money on that auction site, and good candidates for rebuilding into something more typical looking. A 44-tonner if you wait and get lucky.

I run 40' boxcars and such and 34'(?) Weaver hoppers and covered hoppers; I think the Intermountain hopper I just got is closer to 30'. The AHM O scale snap track from the seventies I believe was 24" radius, yes, in two-rail.

If there is no room in the house for 0 Gauge, why not set up a layout in the garden?

Regards

Fred

sncf231e posted:

If there is no room in the house for 0 Gauge, why not set up a layout in the garden?

 

Regards

Fred

seconded!

Technically I have the space. Realistically, when you factor in the wife's desire for a rec room and my son's desire for a 3 rail layout (my fault for hooking him) then I don't have enough for more than a simple switching layout. I'll get space back in about 9 years when my son goes to college I'm on the fence as to whether I want to build a small O scale layout or a much "larger" N scale layout in the mean time. For reference, you could fit Gary Shrader's layout (20x40) into a 6x12 space in N.

I would gladly build outside if that was an option. Living on the side of a hill makes that a bit difficult though...

What do you mean by lack the space?

Do you live in an apartment or have no basement where you live?

You should look at building a series of modules or a wall shelf to eventually get a long distance rail line without the Lionel "4'x8'" effect. Put up a backdrop and gradually build a long, thin layout.

Andrew

I can't find it (of course), but I remember an article regarding building a layout on narrow shelves (about 10") around the walls of a room and essentially placing the furniture directly in front of it. You get to run the trains but maintain the use of the room for other purposes. The shelf height was just under the height of the back of the couch.

Hah.  All I want is test loops.  Mine is a bit more than ten inches away from the wall, but there are four tracks.  I did have scenery, but I started with 64" max radius, and had locomotives I couldn't run past the straight sections.  Cut the building, added two feet, and now all my locomotives can make the 74" radius outer loop.

I've often thought about an above the doorway shelf layout, simply to run passenger trains on, but my window casings in my old (circa 1943) house are closer to the ceiling than the door casings (7" difference!!!).

Might not be so bad though, whatever I would install (probably no more than a 6"-8" wide shelf) would have to be temporary of sorts, shouldn't be more than some mounting holes that would have to be patched up.

My house is only 975 sq foot in space, train room is dual purpose so the layout is designed to fold shut against the wall.  I do have a small loop of G in our garden, not quite ground level.  Obviously its out of service till spring.  I took all my 2 rail stuff to the shop in Indy that deals in collections, mostly G but anything train wise. He is going to try and dispose of for me as he has a LGB engine I would like to have.  So if anybody is interested in the stuff, I can point you to his shop.   Mike

Any one in the Midwest wanting to join a group/club for O scale, we are looking for interested modelers wanting to build modules, based on Free-Mo standard for O Scale, help setup and operate trains.  Feel free to contact me for more details.

where at in the midwest?  thats to general of an area.  Only 2 rail group I know of near me is the Unaffilated O scalers based out of Indianapolis.  Mike

ChipR posted:

Mike,

No room for more than a couple of display cases.  Joined a club and now I'd like to think I'm affiliated with a second club, http://coloradooscale.org/

ChipR

Me too ChipR, we all love our o scale; a few of the guys in the area have built a layout and in time I plan to build wherever I will ultimately end up. Right now it's a few display cases..

artfull dodger posted:

where at in the midwest?  thats to general of an area.  Only 2 rail group I know of near me is the Unaffilated O scalers based out of Indianapolis.  Mike

Mike, Central Illinois.  Bloomington to be exact.  We are expanding and will do more shows in the Midwest!

daylight posted:
"Good topic and excellent ideas for limited space which can keep someone busy switching cars at different industries."

I agree. Clever switching layouts are a lot of fun. Back in Charles City, Iowa a fellow named Pete Fullard had a series of modules that were traction and overhead. He eventually installed them in his basement. As a child I used to operated his modules as he encouraged kids to move the cars. It was so much fun. Great guy.

Photo courtesy VTWI.org

That is Pete Fullard in the background. He used to move these modules to shows. Hours of switching fun as a youth. 

I would love to photo his layout. These images are from a layout tour site from Northeast Iowa  

I am going to do a around the room layout. I have a 10x12 room I have to work with and with using 54 radius I only have room for 21.75" straight away and a single track. Going to have a lot of scenery to make up for single track.   My MTH 611 and GGD cars should look good on 54 radius.  

I ve thought about dabbling in 2 Rail but lack the space for large stream engines. That said OGR's  Jim Policastro did a smaller 6'x11' 2 rail layout. The layout can be seen in Run 227. Here is Jim's track plan, mostly ran smaller road diesels GP9's etc and utilized Atlas O sectional 2 rail track with 36" radius curves. Around the walls will get you the largest curves rather than a table top setup.

The biggest problem with O 2-rail is the large radius needed to run most equipment.  Most of the medium to large O scale equipment needs a minimum of 60 inch radius (O-120) and large switches.  This is the primary reason that O 2-rail is not very popular.   

Even people who do have the space for an O scale layout elect to build in smaller scales.  Look at the pages of the popular model railroad magazines.  You will see many layouts in the smaller scales built in space that will easily accommodate O scale.  I have a friend who has a N scale layout filling his 30 X 50 foot basement.   Another friend has a purpose built 25 X 50 foot building filled with a HO layout.

I think that the best choice for people who want to run O scale trains is to join a club or modular group.  You may be able to form a group if there is not one nearby.  Another option is bite the bullet and build an O space layout in your basement if you have the space and invite a group of friends over to help build and run it.

O scale layouts are still very popular in England.  You will see many O scale layouts in the English model railroad magazines.  Many of the English modelers solve the space problem by building a shelf style  yard inside a shed or garage and running a loop of mainline around the garden.   

NH Joe

New Haven Joe posted:

The biggest problem with O 2-rail is the large radius needed to run most equipment.  Most of the medium to large O scale equipment needs a minimum of 60 inch radius (O-120) and large switches.  This is the primary reason that O 2-rail is not very popular.   

I am am guessing other manufacturers than MTH need wider radius? MTH big boy will operate on 54" radius. 

Thank you. 

Many of you might consider this blasphemy, but 2 rail does not take any more space than 3 rail.    Curves radii generally must be larger but on a realistic around the walls layout, that will make no difference.    Also, I have seen some 2 rail layouts using 36 and 40 inch radius.   So that also pushes the curves down into 3 rail range.       

It takes about 4 inches of width for O scale, whether 2 rail or 3 rail.    A scale boxcar in 1/4 is the same size whether 2 rail  or 3 rail. 

If you space is small, you build a layout that utilizes smaller equipment.   

Just don't think in terms of "train table".