Ted,

You make very good points,& if a modeler needs variety I really hate to say it, but O Scale just can't fill that gap for the most part. Seeing most O Scalers are in steam to early diesel though,I don't think there's probably much to lack there. Just my opnion of course.

Al Hummel

Alan Hummel posted:

Despite the cost of O Scale,YOU JUST GOT TO LOVE THE "HEFT"of those trains!!!!

As Always,

Al Hummel

Al I highly agree. I’ve tried to go back to HO scale several times, but it’s just SO SMALL!!!

O Scale is chunky like a good beef and vegetable soup!

Alan Hummel posted:

Ted,

You make very good points,& if a modeler needs variety I really hate to say it, but O Scale just can't fill that gap for the most part. Seeing most O Scalers are in steam to early diesel though,I don't think there's probably much to lack there. Just my opnion of course.

Al Hummel

O scale may not fill the gap now, but it wasn't always that way. The Walthers O scale catalog used to have a much bigger variety of small items, like signals and their logigisical components like relay cabinets, battery boxes, crossing signals, and the electronics to make them work. 

Today several companies still make the signals themselves, but how many relay cabinets and battery boxes can you find today? That's a shame, because in O scale, it's easier to notice that things like this are missing. In ho, these pieces are plentiful.

Sounds like many here need to attend a 2 rail 0 scale train show.  The car prices are just a fraction of the numbers the major mfg. post.

One can acquire 4, 5 or 6 decent cars for the same amount of money as one new car. 

"The future of 0 scale" is used equipment and 0 scale shows. 

Bill Davis @ the Indy show frequently has scores of new Atlas cars in unopened boxes for 1/4 to 1/3 of regular pricing.

Eternity is a long time to have been wrong.

railroad-guy posted:
Trainman2 posted:

O scale may not fill the gap now, but it wasn't always that way. The Walthers O scale catalog used to have a much bigger variety of small items, like signals and their logigisical components like relay cabinets, battery boxes, crossing signals, and the electronics to make them work. 

Today several companies still make the signals themselves, but how many relay cabinets and battery boxes can you find today? That's a shame, because in O scale, it's easier to notice that things like this are missing. In ho, these pieces are plentiful.

Have you looked at the Lineside Details from Scale City Designs ?

I have, and I like the modern signal relay cabinets, the ones that look like a big gym locker. But I don't think they have the two-level vertical stacked relay cabinets with the round-top doors, or their single-level counterparts.

I've looked for them, and find plenty in ho, but not O.

Nj International had the single-level cabinets, but not the stacked ones. I know somebody in the old Walthers catalogue had them years ago, and I'm almost sure it was them.

It's kind of ironic, in that back then, when those cases were being made, there wasn't a lot of CNJ equipment in o scale, and the CNJ, especially on the NY&LB, was a big user of the stacked relay cabinets.

Now that virtually every O Scale company makes CNJ equipment, nobody seems to be selling those details. 

I know Irish Tracklayer had them a few years ago, but I'm not sure of his status.

 

 

 

 

 

 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Sure Tom, but then you have to change the trucks for 3-rail.

I've had some vendors at 2-rail shows swap the 2-rail trucks for 3-rail (which they just happen to have in a box at their tables) on new in the box Atlas cars for which I just paid the princely sum of $25 each.  Tom is right, there are many bargains to be found on rolling stock at 2-rail shows. 

Alan Hummel posted:

Despite the cost of O Scale,YOU JUST GOT TO LOVE THE "HEFT"of those trains!!!!

As Always,

Al Hummel

You have to be careful though.  Appreciating the "heft" of trains can be an addiction that leads to bigger and bigger trains.   

IMG_1253

--

Thanks, Bob

Attachments

Photos (1)
Many consider O scale a rich mans hobby. I've been told that by vendors.

More mythology........  Plenty of stuff available at bargain prices.  


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

Tom Tee posted:

Sounds like many here need to attend a 2 rail 0 scale train show.  The car prices are just a fraction of the numbers the major mfg. post.

One can acquire 4, 5 or 6 decent cars for the same amount of money as one new car. 

"The future of 0 scale" is used equipment and 0 scale shows. 

Bill Davis @ the Indy show frequently has scores of new Atlas cars in unopened boxes for 1/4 to 1/3 of regular pricing.

Heck in the latest issue of the O Scale Resource, Dan the publisher, showed pictures of boxcars for $2 and even a few for $1 that were seen at the Strasburg show.

Phil

TCA Member

NYCHS Member

MTH RR Club

ecd15 posted:
Alan Hummel posted:

Despite the cost of O Scale,YOU JUST GOT TO LOVE THE "HEFT"of those trains!!!!

As Always,

Al Hummel

You have to be careful though.  Appreciating the "heft" of trains can be an addiction that leads to bigger and bigger trains.   

I prefer the real ones for that reason.  Sadly those days are gone for me.  

Back on "track", I still believe the one place Atlas could experience a resurgence is with an updated line of O scale "Snap Track".  

This was the product that put Atlas on the map for HO and N scales. 

The current Lenz-based Atlas track has seen it's day.  European spec in appearance and crudely detailed, it needs a  complete reset.

Track isn't like cars and locomotives.  There is no penalty of weakness in making it and it's details scale sized.

How about a new line of O scale "Snap Track" with scale sized tie plates and spikes and corresponding turnouts and crossovers with US spec frog numbers and dimensions and all of the metal and bracing of the prototype? 

Track suitable from the steam through modern eras.   That and structures are what put Atlas on the map. 

Rob M. ARHS # 3846 PRRT&HS # 8141 EPTC "Life Is Like A Mountain Railway, With An Engineer That's Brave..."

Hudson J1e posted:
Tom Tee posted:

Sounds like many here need to attend a 2 rail 0 scale train show.  The car prices are just a fraction of the numbers the major mfg. post.

One can acquire 4, 5 or 6 decent cars for the same amount of money as one new car. 

"The future of 0 scale" is used equipment and 0 scale shows. 

Bill Davis @ the Indy show frequently has scores of new Atlas cars in unopened boxes for 1/4 to 1/3 of regular pricing.

Heck in the latest issue of the O Scale Resource, Dan the publisher, showed pictures of boxcars for $2 and even a few for $1 that were seen at the Strasburg show.

I wish that were the case here in New England I would buy a couple of dozen. Nothing here for $2 unless its old mpc in a box under the table for $5 .

George

Alan Hummel posted:

EDC15,(B0B),

Years back I was headed for that size. my wife wants to know if you own the cars pictured. Are those,I think they called the scale 1&1/2" where the tracks are spaced 7&1/2" apart? Real nice.

Al Hummel

Alan,

Yes, the Erie caboose is mine.  You are correct, it is 1 1/2" scale with a gauge of 7 1/2".  The one advantage of this scale is that it is much tougher to be a hoarder with dozens (or hundreds for some of us) of engines and cars.  And there really is no "under layout" storage space.  Although, dead rail is the norm and track cleaning usually involves removing branches (or trees).

The Santa Fe engines previously posted are the same scale, but do not belong to me.

--

Thanks, Bob

Hudson J1e posted:
Tom Tee posted:

Sounds like many here need to attend a 2 rail 0 scale train show.  The car prices are just a fraction of the numbers the major mfg. post.

One can acquire 4, 5 or 6 decent cars for the same amount of money as one new car. 

"The future of 0 scale" is used equipment and 0 scale shows. 

Bill Davis @ the Indy show frequently has scores of new Atlas cars in unopened boxes for 1/4 to 1/3 of regular pricing.

Heck in the latest issue of the O Scale Resource, Dan the publisher, showed pictures of boxcars for $2 and even a few for $1 that were seen at the Strasburg show.

I even bought 2 of those $1 cars - those were Atlas body shells w/o floors, etc. but for a $1 I can build a floor and detailed underbody pretty easily.  But I really just wanted them for raw materials, mainly the doors, for other projects.


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

Tom Tee posted:

Sounds like many here need to attend a 2 rail 0 scale train show.  The car prices are just a fraction of the numbers the major mfg. post.

One can acquire 4, 5 or 6 decent cars for the same amount of money as one new car. 

"The future of 0 scale" is used equipment and 0 scale shows. 

Bill Davis @ the Indy show frequently has scores of new Atlas cars in unopened boxes for 1/4 to 1/3 of regular pricing.

I have yet to attend a show and the major ones in Chicago and Indianapolis are within driving distance. Speaking with a few 2-railers they have said the same thing: 2-rail Atlas locomotives and rolling stock can be had for a fraction of the original price.

I've been extremely fortunate to find what I have but there are a couple of locomotives I'm trying to locate. Better than 90% of what I have is either Atlas Master or Trainman.

I'm definitely attending the March Meet, if for nothing more than to meet Erik Stott of Midwestern Modelworks since I have an SD40-2 reserved. I also have a GP9 reserved thru 3rd Rail so I'm hopeful to see Scott Mann. I know these guys are busy but they do a fantastic job of promoting the hobby.

I have lots of Atlas pre-ordered from this year including 25,500 gallon tank cars, Coalveyors, Trinity hoppers and 89' flat cars. I plan on honoring my pre-order for the SD40's if they ever see the light of day. I love Atlas O products. I renewed my Golden Spike Club membership for next year. I wish there were more Atlas enthusiasts in the hobby like myself because threads like this wouldn't exist.

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.

EMDALCO01,

I have that fight so often going back to HO,but it just ain't gonna happen. I pick up a 25,500 tanker in my hand and think,"Oh my gosh! This thing is fantastic how could I consider selling it?"  The only reason I ever considered it is do to the wife&my economic situation. If it has to go,there will still be time if that happens.

Al 

Alan Hummel posted:

EDC15,(B0B),

Years back I was headed for that size. .......I think they called the scale 1&1/2" where the tracks are spaced 7&1/2" apart? Real nice.

Al Hummel

Well, I'm sure you are glad you didn't.   Otherwise you'd be on the 7.5GF continuously bemoaning that you can't get every prototype car you want [ with road specific details of course ], in the exact paint scheme you want, in the exact number series you want with fifty different numbers per car, always in stock everywhere, and for $19.95 each.......

SZ

I absolutely LOVE Atlas cars for all the molded plastic details they have.  Extremely realistic!!!

OTOH, I absolutely HATE Atlas cars for all the molded plastic details they have.  Just look at them cross-eyed, and the molded plastic details shatter, break, and fall off!

I have NO new Atlas freight cars.  I have several used Atlas freight cars that I have picked up at bargain-basement prices at train shows.  Usually have busted/missing parts, where I have to go in and scratch-build replacement parts.  And not just Atlas, but other brands, too.  As a matter of fact, at the last train show I attended, I picked up several SCALE-sized, or nearly scale-sized, freight cars needing various degrees of minor work, for $3 each!!!   What a bargain!!!

I would personally like to thank all the individuals for selling me this stuff at such phenomenal low prices.  O-gauge may be a rich man's hobby, but that's just assuming you strictly buy new.  AFAIK, I'm making out like a fat cat by buying used, really nice stuff, at super-bargain prices.  I think I've gotten into O-gauge at the right time in history, Atlas stuff included.

Paul  

Ship Rock Island ROCKET FREIGHT

 

2 Rails?  3 Rails?  Doesn't matter, I can't count that high in either case.

I love the smell of fresh-brewed creosote first thing in the morning.

If the government knew how much fun O-gauge railroading was, they'd outlaw it!

Common sense is my second best trait.  Nonsense is my first, of course. 

German posted:
MELGAR posted:

Atlas O just delivered their Trainman model of a 1937 caboose as built by Magor Car Company of Clifton, New Jersey. Mine is the Boston & Maine version - a beauty. See link. I like their models.

MELGAR

MELGAR_B&M_CABOOSE_482_01

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...e-caboose-by-atlas-o

I grew up in adjacent Paterson and am well-aware of it's locomotive building history but was was totally unaware of Magor until this post. Thank you! I now have some fun research to pursue. 

Edward Kaminski I believe did a book on Magor car works from Clifton, NJ

member:Golden Spike Club Charter Member

Tom Tee posted:

0 scale is not just twice the size of HO.

As far as heft goes wrap you head around this.  0 scale has 8 times the presence of HO.

act.

 

Actually, it's closer to 1.81 times the size of HO,


There are many mysteries in this universe, big and small. Like, why do clowns make us laugh? Why do we love puppy dogs? And why, why do little blue midgets hit me with fish?

I was surprised in this whole thread there is no mention of the Golden Spike Club.  Pat does a great job trying to keep all  of the membership happy.  The last few years the Club Car was in my opinion late but worth it.  Last year's Club Car did not hit my porch until March or April.  I am waiting to see when the 2019 Car hits as I have already signed up for 2020.  I think I have each car since the Club's inception, except when their offering was from the Trainman Line.

Jim

 

Hauling Coal and Tourist to Sodus Point on the PRR-Elmira Branch

mwb posted:
Tom Tee posted:

0 scale is not just twice the size of HO.

As far as heft goes wrap you head around this.  0 scale has 8 times the presence of HO.

act.

 

Actually, it's closer to 1.81 times the size of HO,

Heft/ Volume and Size. I’d call it a draw and say your both correct. 
Taken from NMRA.org website
In fact, it is said that historically, the name "HO" was inspired by it being "Half O".  Even though every linear measurement in O scale is about twice the same measurement in HO scale, remember that each measurement in a 3-D item in O scale is twice that in HO scale. (i.e. length, width, height)  So, for example, the volume of a structure in O scale is actually eight (8) times that of the same structure in HO scale.  That is an important factor to remember when considering space requirements for each scale.  

George

prrhorseshoecurve posted:
Rule292 posted:

Always remember that Atlas is a small family owned business.  They’ve survived this long through boom and bust because they know when where and how to spend and when where and how to save. 

While a P:48er I do love the Atlas billboard reefers so I keep an eye on them hoping they’ll do some more not yet done like Asco milk.  

Doing business offshore is risky and difficult.  They are erring on the side of caution and that’s a good thing. 

In speaking with Mr. Heidreich from Atlas O at their. Fall "garage sale" it was pretty clear that if Atlas o doesn't get the preorders in especially on locomotives, they will  not take the chance and make the run. For freight cars, continue seeing more reruns of current models and maybe a new model here and there. Atlas O' s manufacturing in China seems to get caught up with the government "5 year plans" that put a link in Atlas o production and facilities.

I might go visit their second garage sale this week since I can be available.  Was it worth visiting/seeing?  I'm not looking for much, but I think it interesting to visit the warehouse and maybe photograph the event. Thoughts?

Also, I preordered 3 SD40's and like catnap, I'd honor the preorder if they still plan to make it happen. Especially if Scott can't get enough orders for the SD40-2's.

I also wish AtlasO could figure out how they could do small-run resin-casted batches here or in China and maybe have Chinese labor create and finish the detailing/painting of the bodies. That would hopefully allow for them to still do masterline detailed cars, but do some more new, fresh, and unique prototypes. Maybe I'll ask if I make it to the second warehouse sale.

Scale.  Wanna' split hairs?  It's all a gosh-dang'd numbers game.  The TRUE interpretation is only available to those of us mathematicians in the know.

For instance, a lot of depends on which side of the "pond" you are on.  In America, true O-scale would be (or maybe should be, considering the distance between the rails?) considered as 1/48 scale.  Or, 1/4" = 1'-0".  Which has its origins based on English measurements.  Not even opening the 1-1/4" (scale 5'-0") between the rails debate.  But Proto 1/48 scale addresses that issue.  Half-O, or HO, therefore should really be 1/96 scale, or basically, 1/2 the scale of O-scale, which would also be 1/8" = 1'-0".  But something funny happened on the way to the forum.

The English adopted the metric system, and as a result, their O-scale became 7 mm to the foot.  Or, rounding off to the English adopted system, 1/43.5.  Therefore, half that size became HO scale, or as commonly known, 3.5mm/foot (half of 7 mm/foot), a.k.a. "1/87" scale, which pretty much stuck.  HO scale is 3.5 mm/foot, like it or not.  It may be the only one long-time true scale, to which all other standards are measured from.  Which is kind of a conundrum.  Shouldn't 3.5 mm equal something metric, like say a meter, or a decimeter, or even a centimeter or something like that?  But no, the English decided to let 7 mm, and half or that, 3.5 mm (METRIC measurements) equal one FOOT (an ENGLISH measurement), thereby screwing up model train scales for all eternity ever after!

And let's consider N-scale, 9 mm between the rails, or 1/160 scale.  Which is kinda' sorta' half of HO scale.  Or thereabouts.  Doing the math, we find that N-scale is also not exactly 1/4 the size of O-scale, as can be arbitrarily assumed, but more precisely 3-1/3 times smaller than American O-scale, which of course is not the current English O-scale, but IS the current world-wide N-scale accepted measurement, except in Japan, where it's somewhere closer to 1/150 scale, or maybe 1/144 scale, or maybe somewhere around that.  It's kinda' like playing "Whack-a-Mole" at the circus carnival.  You're never quite sure where that next head is gonna' pop up, you just have to try your best to hammer it when it does!

If that doesn't blow your minuscule minds, it ought to.  It blows my minuscule mind!  Which is why I like O-gauge, as opposed to O-scale.  It's more of a suggestion than an absolute.  I remember taking pre-calculus back in high school (a long time ago).  In retrospect, I think it was even more understandable than model railroading scales!

And more food for thought - you want my honest opinion?  As far as I'm concerned, there all only 2 (two) TRUE model railroad SCALES - Proto 1/48 (1/4" = 1'-0") for one, and S-scale (3/16" = 1'-0") for the other.  You wanna' know why?  It's because they are based on strictly English measurement scale-downs, and NOT English-to-metric conversions with their resultant rounding off's to the closest inch or millimeter or whatever.

So, how's the batteries in your calculator?  Hope they're fully charged.  You'll need 'em if you're gonna' try and figure out model railroading scales to the Nth degree!  

Paul  

Ship Rock Island ROCKET FREIGHT

 

2 Rails?  3 Rails?  Doesn't matter, I can't count that high in either case.

I love the smell of fresh-brewed creosote first thing in the morning.

If the government knew how much fun O-gauge railroading was, they'd outlaw it!

Common sense is my second best trait.  Nonsense is my first, of course. 

Alan Hummel posted:

LOOSE-CABOOSE,

I thought the Golden Spike Club was closed to new members years ago? A person can still get in?

Al Hummel

I don't know that I said anything that would affirm or negate your question.  All I was mentioning was that I think the GSC is a great thing that Atlas is doing for the Hobby.  But, since you brought it up, I do remember something about it being done away with for N (?) and HO (?).  I know my application this year said something about if your a current member a member ID was to be inserted.  But again that is an assumption maybe reading too much into it.  The Best way to answer your question would be to call Atlas and ask for Pat Kimble.  She is in charge of the GSC at Atlas.

Jim

 

Hauling Coal and Tourist to Sodus Point on the PRR-Elmira Branch

MrMuffin'sTrains posted:

Unfortunately, with the long delay from preorders being due until the engines actually shipped, I for one, had a lot of cancellations of preorders for F3s and F7s leaving me holding the bag on dozens of engines.... 

Steve, though it allowed us to pick up items we did not order, is an unfortunate issue with the delayed production run that some did not take items they preordered. Must say they run very well with Atlas usual high quality, hope they place some new ones in the next catalog. 

LOOSE-CABOOSE,

Jim I guess I read some things into your thread. just sounded like the GSC was alive and well. I was a member years back and it is a VERY NICE club with very helpful information. 

Yes,it's possible that the club was closed to HO&N,but anything I would say would be a wild guess.

Thanks,

Al Hummel

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