I am buying my first house this weekend on Long Island. I am just wondering what basement size would be good for std o layout.
Thanks
Jonathan
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No less than a square city block.
Dont you think you should be concerned with whats above ground (i.e. a big kitchen, enough bedrooms and bathrooms, etc...) and just let the basement fall into place with it?
I cant say that it makes any sense to buy a house based solely on how big the basement is...
If your buying the house this weekend it seems a little late to be worried about the size of the basement. This question reminds me of "How many trains are too many?"
Seems like you might mean "Is my basement going to be big enough"
Basement sizes on Long Island are usually good size (Sometimes as large as the whole house minus the garage). Don't worry about it and do what the other poster said. Make sure the above ground living quarters are what you want and need.
The fact that there is a basement is always on my house list, and finished even higher, but concentrate on other parts of the house first.
You can design a layout to work in just about any space and that's part of the fun.
I'm not familiar with Long Island real estate, however the bigger basements are usually in ranch house designs, e.g. our new home has 3 bedrooms etc. with a 2100 sq. ft. basement this is the smallest home in our development but the biggest basement. My wife is allocated 35 sq. ft.that less the furnace & water heater leaves about 2000 sq. ft. for the railroad.
Envision your dream layout in HO, calculate the square footage. Multiply that result by 8. That will be the area needed for your layout, which does not include access(stairs, walkways, a vantage point, etc.) or amenities like a furnace or water heater.
Jon, you’re a smart guy you have your priorities straight.
Better make sure it is a 'dry' one!
Better make sure it is a 'dry' one!
That is sound advice. I would rather have a small dry basement than a huge wet basement. No matter what the size is, make sure that you finish off the room nicely before you start building benchwork. When we built our recent raised ranch, I made sure that a finished train room was included. The room is 24 x 14 and I am able to fit an L shaped 8 x 16 layout.
I actually had a water problem during the flood of 2010. When I rebuilt the room I installed this flooring called "Thermal Dry" in case of future problems and I love it. Here is a link
No less than a square city block.
Dont you think you should be concerned with whats above ground (i.e. a big kitchen, enough bedrooms and bathrooms, etc...) and just let the basement fall into place with it?
I cant say that it makes any sense to buy a house based solely on how big the basement is...
Your first answer was correct. As for the rest....HERETIC!
George
I bought two houses in my life and both times the basement was a priority. Both for trains and that is what the house is built on. You can change a lot of things but the basement and its condition is expensive to change.
Whatever you figure - DOUBLE IT.
Think quality, not just quantity. A good clean dry comfortable room is better than a large damp cold dirty basement. And the other parts of the house might be important to consider as support facilities!
With all the responses, I'm wondering why nobody asked this question. Why is this subject in "For Sale or Trade?
PRR1950,
Excellent Question!
Gunny
This is your best chance to do it right. If you are going to build a decent size model railroad, size of the basement is important. Usually a ranch style home will afford you a better opportunity to get a good size basement as the footprint of the building is normally larger than a colonial, etc.
I would tell your realtor up front that you want a big "dry" basement and have the individual preview the properties before they drag you around from one place to another. Tell the realtor up front that you DO NOT WANT TO WASTE YOUR TIME and whatever they schedule for you to visit, it must meet your criteria or you will find another realtor. Many times they do not listen and take you do their personal listings as a priority. Don't be pressured and buy only what makes good sense to you and your wife.
If you have a choice, get one with a basement that has stairs that enter into its center rather than along one wall. This allows for continuous along the wall layout construction.
I could never find or afford a house on Long Island to build my dream layout.
So I moved!
I cannot recommend this too strongly, be very, very clear with your spouse how this room is going to be used. Are you planning on having a permanent layout? Or a seasonal one? If seasonal, what else will the room be used for? Who has final say on flooring, windows, the walls, painting, lighting, egress, storage? When we added an upstairs room and a basement room below to our current house, I assumed my wife and I had an agreement that the basement room was mine and I was going to put a permanent layout in it. And you know what happens when you ASSUME. You make an A@@ out of U and ME......So, just be clear about what you want before hand!!! Good luck!
It is always good to find a great basement that just happens to have a nice house attached to it....
Alan
A few pointers, IMHO...
1) While mentioned by someone above, water, mold, mildew damage from Sandy should be a bigger concern.
2) Overall size is certainly important. However, the location of your walls, stairs, doorways, HVAC, etc. are equally important. Usable square footage may be what to look for.
Folks with "upstairs" layouts can go through walls if necessary b/c they're typically made of plaster or dry wall. In a basement, especially an older one, the walls will be concrete or cinder block....so you can't really go through them.
You must now also face the ultimate dilemma of O Gauge Railroading: the choice between wide, realistic sweeping curves or smaller curves that will give you more layout options. As I get older, my railroad curves (and myself) seem to get wider.
One point that has been mentioned in the past about layout (size), which this basement discussion is closely related, is maintenance. Assuming the layout gets completed, it has to be cleaned and maintained in operational condition. A climate controlled environment is a plus. A little less, comfortable environment, well lit, and easily accessible may be an advantage.
Dry, dry, dry !
eliot
Dry, dry, dry !
eliot/Mike
Being a former Long Islander, I have to say good luck, The property tax is a killer. The bigger the house and basement, the more you are going to pay. What towns are you looking at>???
It doesn't matter what they say...size IS everything!!!!!
Rick
I agree with Eliot, dry, plus good ceiling height and a bathroom!!!! My house was built in 1927. My layout takes up the entire basement less the furnace/work shop room.
I have three carrying beams with lolly columns. I think the best basement for a layout would be a ranch style home with a steel carrying beam.
my basement is 35ftx35ft my layout is 30ft x14ft after building a storage room and shop I am out of room
Jonathan,
The 2,400 Sq-Ft ranch house we bought three years ago had a 2,200 Sq-Ft basement; totally unfinished except it had a nice 5 x 10 full bathroom already done with the inside completely finished. After much deliberation, I decided to divide it thusly:
Train room: 33 x 38. (There is a 9 x 20 area for guests to gather.)
Study: 12 x 22
Shop: 16 x 22
Exercise room: 12 x 12
Utility room: 10 x 12
Bathroom: 5 x 10
Hints (many have been voiced before)
• Make sure the basement is dry. If it is not and is not a question of leaks, dehumidifiers can help – again, if it is just a question of humidity.
• When dividing up the basement, remember that it is very handy to have a workshop close to the train room. Other rooms will come in handy as well, such as a bathroom, study, etc.
• When planning the train room size and layout, keep in mind what your objectives are, and how much time you are willing to wait until the layout is ‘finished’ to a reasonable degree from your point of view.
• Finish everything (studs, wiring, drywall, mudding, painting, ceilings, and flooring) before you start the train; even if it means painting the backdrop or pasting purchased backdrops over the freshly painted train walls.
Good Luck!
Alex
Obviously, if you intend to build a train layout, the larger the space, the better for future growth whiich will happen. Basement are a little like boats: All of them are two feet too short! Now, if it's a nice house and the basement isn't quite what your like to devote to your trains, there are a couple of things you can do: Build up; my own layout runs from 30" above the floor all the way up to 60" off the floor. My basement if one that is probably 20 feet too short! So I have four levels of track, all interconnected and trains run from one level to another.
Point is, if you have any space at all for a layout, you can make the best of it by doing a bit of planning and building.
Paul Fischer
Sunbelt response:
Basement?
Actually, guys should insist on the biggest basement possible, lots of attic space, more and oversize garages and gate access to the back for trailers and boats.
None of these are negotiable.
Lots of luck on these! You will need it.
Charlie
fisch330,
Paul you are right, and my layout was in my upstairs game room for many years, 5 levels high with all the goodies.
Unfortunately our 100 year old home outside of Pittsburgh, Pa has a work type basement in it, seriously cut up and damp even with a DH, not really suitable for my trains. I always wanted a big 2500' basement game room in a big Ranch house here in Churchill, I told my better half if we ever move again, the new house must have the kind of basement I can make into a serious train room. In Slidell, La I had a tripple Garage, and a big outing building for storage. I had a fantastic tripple Garage layout, 4 levels high, the Garage doors opened at Christmas time so the entire Coin De Lestin Estate, could come visit and view the layout, it was fantastic having that much room to build. Unfortunately that home was taken by the last big Hurricane that hit New Orleans and Slidell.
PCRR/Dave
Yank - good luck south of merrick with a completely dry basement. I don't recommend it with its proximity to the water. it tends to be even more humid in those basements. seaford is also one of the lowest towns on the south shore and floods with a heavy rain.
Yank252001, I built a new house in 06 and put a Generac in and I have never regretted it.
As far as space goes, quality before quantity. A nice dry space with no obstructions, posts etc.
Check the city flood maps. Then consider that with all the building going on they may be somewhat, old so expand the flood plain 20%. If you're prospective house is on dry land then buy it and have the best sump pump/backup you can find installed.
I would not reccomend a finished basement. You'll want to expand someday and don't want any walls blocking your plans. All your plumbing and electrical get's buried behind walls. Building layouts is messy business too.
When you're having the kitchen and bathrooms redone is the perfect time to grab all the basement territory you can. Build the base of the layout so the wifey doesn't get any ideas that you need a pool table or extra TV room.
Live by the American Ideal......"too much is just right"
Yank....I was wondering why a basement? Are there other options or is the area you must live in a basement only proposition?
In our part of the country, there are a few basements but most are of the "walk-out" type. What we did was to add a second story to our 4 car garage. The second story above the garage has a 10.5 foot ceiling to accommodate the highrises I knew I was going to build for the layout. The area is approximately 30 by 40 with no obstructions anywhere. This is because we installed 18" engineered beams every 16" in the floor which divides the garage ceiling and the train room floor. There are 16" engineered beams in the train room ceiling / roof every 16". This allowed us to have a garage with no exposed beams and no poles in the way. Same for the train room above.
Alan
This has been a timely thread as my wife and I are in the planning stages of building a new home. While the basement and increased space for the layout has been very important for me, there are many things to consider when building. Additional ceiling height to me is very important in making a basement a comfortable space. Poles can be hidden within the layout, so many ways to deal with them.
Yank....I was wondering why a basement? Are there other options or is the area you must live in a basement only proposition?
In our part of the country, there are a few basements but most are of the "walk-out" type. What we did was to add a second story to our 4 car garage. The second story above the garage has a 10.5 foot ceiling to accommodate the highrises I knew I was going to build for the layout. The area is approximately 30 by 40 with no obstructions anywhere. This is because we installed 18" engineered beams every 16" in the floor which divides the garage ceiling and the train room floor. There are 16" engineered beams in the train room ceiling / roof every 16". This allowed us to have a garage with no exposed beams and no poles in the way. Same for the train room above.
Alan
Basements are usually cheaper for the square footage and they are much cheaper to heat/cool than an upper floor or attic.
This has been a timely thread as my wife and I are in the planning stages of building a new home. While the basement and increased space for the layout has been very important for me, there are many things to consider when building. Additional ceiling height to me is very important in making a basement a comfortable space. Poles can be hidden within the layout, so many ways to deal with them.
Hey Charlie, look into clear span engineered wood beams - you can eliminate a lot of posts. I wish I'd known about before we built our place - posts can still be PITA.
To mirror the standard opinion, I personally think any area less than the size of the carrier deck of the USS Nimitz is too small. However, like most people here, I'ver had to make do with what I have.
I'd recommend buying a house without regard to the details of train space. You can do a good layout in an 8 x 10 room, and if you have 75 x 40 feet, someday you will feel it isn't big enough. Whatever space you have, it will be fun.
Better make sure it is a 'dry' one!
Amen to that.
But to get back to the original question, it's not so much a matter of how big is the basement, as it is how much of the basement will be available for your hobby use. Inevitably, it'll also be used for storage, laundry facilities, perhaps even furniture. You'll have to factor all those considerations in when thinking about your future layout.
Charlie, If you are doing a new custom house I would use a floor truss system. it allows you to put all mechanicals and plumbing up in the ceiling. This makes for a clean basement ceiling. It didn't work out in my case. Also, if you can find a lot, a south facing walkout is the best. It doesn't feel like you are in a basement. You never get all of your wants in a house. Talk to you more later.
Dan
P.S. The first "extra" upgrade should be SPRAY FOAM INSULATION. This will make the house very warm and draft free.
If this is your first house make sure it's size is one you can afford. (ie you will be able to sustain it through an economic cycle or two)
That's the size of my basement---1,000 sq ft.. And it's plenty enough room for me and my AF layout and operation. Sometimes less is more. I once mostly filled the space with 2-rail O scale and 48" radius curves but haven't used the entire space for the AF. Part of it ran on a shelf through the laundry/storage room and bathroom which I might do again with the AF. BTW, the small sink and toilet are a nice convenience. I also have a small work area for my bandsaw and other workshop elements. I have a Modine heater on the hot water heating system down here in its own zone. I also have a dehumidifier for the summer that cost less than $200. I still have plenty of room for my needs. I'm not in any flood zone. It might not be enough room for some but it works for me, and it's very comfortable and still roomy.
Phil
Charlie, If you are doing a new custom house I would use a floor truss system. it allows you to put all mechanicals and plumbing up in the ceiling. This makes for a clean basement ceiling. It didn't work out in my case. Also, if you can find a lot, a south facing walkout is the best. It doesn't feel like you are in a basement. You never get all of your wants in a house. Talk to you more later.
Dan
P.S. The first "extra" upgrade should be SPRAY FOAM INSULATION. This will make the house very warm and draft free.
Thanks Dan. I found a lot and really like it. I'm not sure a walkout will work on this property, but I'm still going to have plenty of room and headspace. Laundry will not be in the basement, so it will all be mine.
As long as you are tearing the house down to the foundation, it may be a good idea to prepare the basement for the next 100 year flood that seems to be happening every 5 years. That would be a good time to bust up the floors and install a french drain and a sump pump. As you start to build your train room think about keeping things elevated with some high-end shelves. Make sure that anything on the floor will not get ruined by water.
And don't forget to post pictures while the room progresses.
Im in Bellmore, pretty much right on Merrick Rd. A lot of the houses south of Merrick got flooded during Sandy so keep an eye out that the moisture isn't still there
Yank, definitely walk away from that one! Remember the movie, "Money Pit?"
Phil
Oh yes, the hazards of houses built in the 50's; do it yourself projects without permits, asbestos, lead paint, aluminum wires, pennies in the fuse box.........
Unfortunately on LI finding a house that didn't have unpermitted work done is difficult... always check the property records. My favorite are those advertised with X number of baths and then the town records state 1. Unless the Realtor is good they typically don't even say anything until it comes up in a title search and you fall in love with the house.... Phil - You've got Money Pit right on!
1,000 square feet would be too small for me. By time you add a small restroom, a work bench with a fridge close by, a small area with chairs and a table for follow 3-railers to sit when they visit, and some storage there would not be enough room left for the size layout I would eventually want. Since it sounds like you have already bought the property, I recommend you expand the basement and put a single story house on it. I have a two-story, 3,000 square foot house but the basement is only 1,400 square feet. My neighbor has a 2,500 square foot single-story house on top of a full basement, and his basement seems huge compared to mine.
A dry basement is essential, and I thought I had one. My basement floor is several feet above the 100 year flood line, and rain water drains away from the house on all sides. However, this did not keep my basement from flooding during a hurricane. Why? Because I have walk-up stairs outside to the back yard. During the hurricane it rained for 18 hours, 12 hours of which there was no power to the sump pump (the battery back-up only lasts one hour). Since I was 2,500 miles away taking care of my sick sister, so I could not start my back-up generator to run the sump pump. The rain came into the basement through the outside stairwell and the water line on the wall showed I had 4” of water in the basement before the power came back on. So, if at all possible, try to have a gravity drain from your basement to the outside so you will not have problems during extended power failures.
Ron
"have a gravity drain from your basement to the outside"- if you are building/ buying a house/property, the most important words in the english language.-jim
You are absolutely right Mixerman - as was said one time "people buy houses on sunny days."
Water flows downhill and you can't go wrong if you have your yard graded properly and gravity drains.
If not make sure you have a good submersible pump - generator - and all your train stuff at least 6 inches above the floor.
Charlie, If you are doing a new custom house I would use a floor truss system. it allows you to put all mechanicals and plumbing up in the ceiling. This makes for a clean basement ceiling.
Dan
P.S. The first "extra" upgrade should be SPRAY FOAM INSULATION. This will make the house very warm and draft free.
Thanks Dan. I found a lot and really like it. I'm not sure a walkout will work on this property, but I'm still going to have plenty of room and headspace. Laundry will not be in the basement, so it will all be mine.
I wouldn't do a walkout anyway, takes away from railroad space! I had them build the basement deeper than usual so more headspace. I also set the stairwell and furnace/water heater towards the center so I could run along all four walls. Convinced my wife that it would be a PITA to haul laundry down and up so the laundry is on the main floor. As I said above, I regret not knowing about the engineered beams - so I have to deal with 3 support posts which are in the wrong place. I put in two extra 20 amp circuits, one for outlets (quad) and one for lighting. I have a LOT of lighting - 9 four bulb 48" fluorescent lights, and a whole bunch of track lights on dimmers plus workshop and hvac room lights. Be sure to waterseal and insulate basement walls. If you will be on sand the floor slab will have to be waterproofed (condensation) - ask me how I know. It's easier to do before then after the fact.
If you will be on sand the floor slab will have to be waterproofed (condensation) - ask me how I know. It's easier to do before then after the fact.
Please tell, this is all good information.
Hi
I looked at so manny houses that had small or fluded basments.
a yesr latter we found a nice ranch house with dry and big basment. 50ft & 25 ft.
I use just over 3/4 for layout.
With all that room started North Penn 'O' gauger club with my brother and friends.
What size basement you should be looking for has many factors. First of all, what size equipment and minimum curve radiuses do they require? How much time do you have (and money) to construct a layout, be it large or small? How much equipment do you have (never enough)? What type of house are you looking for, ranch, colonial, cape cod or split level? The type of homes you look at sometimes dictates the size basement that you end up with.
Most important, is the basement dry AND deep enough? A shallow basement does not leave much room for lighting, finished ceiling, etc. A wet basement is not good either. Dampness is a very serious enemy to our hobby. You don't want your prized possesions to get rusty or the boxes to get damp and moldy. It is quite expensive to repair a wet basemnt.
Is the area in the basement whrere you are planning to build your layout finished? Is there a ceiling with adequate lighting? Are the walls finished? What about the floor, is it carpeted or atleast tiled? AND, what about your electrical requirements? Are their enough outlets and hopefully a dedicated circuit for your train room/layout? The cost of all of these things can add up quickly and become quite expensive.
My wife and I bought our current home in 1998. Like alot of posters before me posted, what was above the basement was utmost on our priority list (darn!). We bought a four bedroom/3 bath spilt level home because it was a very nice sized home for us and our four children. What I got in exchange was a rather smallish FINISHED basement room which could also serve as a 5th bedroom. It has a walk-in closet for my train storage and is carpeted, finished ceiling and walls, and a light switch controls one wall electrical outlet. That is where I have my power strip and transformer plugged in.
Happy house hunting! I hope that this helps. Keep those future rails polished!
Cobrabob.
My train room measures 8'6" X 16'0", yes I do wish it was larger. Now, there is a second bedroom on the uppermost level that measures 11'0" x 16'8" that could serve as a second layout when my oldest sons move out!!! HMMMM, two layouts! What more could I ask for?? And my wife says it would be okay, as long as she could have the third and fourth bedrooms one day!!!! Oh, yes!
Cobrabob.
Good luck trying to find a basement in North Carolina. I had the opportunity to move to Charlotte many years ago and I didn't due to the summer heat and the lack of basements in houses. You may be able to find a split level with a downstairs walkout which would be perfect for a train room. My cousin lives in Boone, NC and there are some houses in that area that would be suitable for trains. That is where I plan to retire.
First it must be a dry basement. Second, make sure you have a deal in writing that the basement is yours for the trains....the rest of the house can be hers. Third be sure to install an Aprilaire dehumidifier to keep the humidity below 50%. Fourth, after your divorce, think how you will use the guest bedroom into a wall to wall area to store/disply your train collection.
Hmmmm..... I see see room for a loop of 031 tubular track, maybe a tunnel, hmmm.... Yeah, lucky you have an extra bedroom.
Cobrabob.
I have a nine by twenty-three foot layout with a drop leaf runnin down one side. When this twenty four inch wide leaf is in the up position I have plenty of room to move any appliance in or out of the basement.
That said I have seen many smaller layouts that are just beautiful and fun to run trains on.
The size is never enough for what we wont, but me make do with what we have.
Things to consider is "DRY-DRY-DRY" as stated on the previous page.
Access to all sections of your platform and a theme you enjoy.
Any good layout must be built as a serries of vignette's joined together by tracks.
The rest is up to you, now go have fun.
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