Bell replacement on a Lionel #261

Dave take a look at ebay for a photo it looks like it was punched after inserting the bell in, I don't have much prewar hopefully someone can give you better guidance. Can you provide pictures for the prewar owners? or of the Bell and boiler where the bell fits? Good Luck Mark

Thank you for such a quick reply.  Attached are some photos that I hope will help.  I have considered using E2000 Adhesive; but I don't know if that's the best idea.

Dave

I have used J-B weld on parts and had to put the rim on a PW Lionel S2 turbine and still runs with out a issue. If your worried about trying to punch the bottom of the bell with out making a dent in the boiler try your adhesive, or take it to your local train shop to put the bell on. Your boiler looks in great shape, do a post when your bell and stack are on. Good Luck Mark

If the pin on the bottom of the bell fits fairly snugly in the hole on the boiler, ZAP Z-71 permanent threadlocker should work:

This is the equivalent of "red Loctite" but comes in a better container for small jobs. As Mark states, JB Weld will do a good job, too, but you will have to mix it up and find other uses for the rest of the mix or it will go to waste.

Thank you all for your suggestions.  I;m sure now it will work out beautifully.  When finished, I will post photos.  I just purchased an 831 Flat Car and an 807 Caboose to complete the low end set as pictured in the Lionel 1931 Catalog as Set #139.  In fact, I won the bidding on four cabooses on eBay as a group in order to get one nice one.  I will be offering the other three for sale when I receive them shortly.  Again, thanks for all the help and advice.

Dave

I have another related question.  Having received the brass or copper smoke stack from Henning's and a solid copper or bronze bell on eBay, I am thinking of darkening them before mounting them to try an match the existing trim on the engine.  Is JAX medium darkening solution the right was to go?  Or, if the train were yours, would you simply leave well enough alone and mount them as-is?

Thanks.

Dave to m

@dastrock posted:

I have another related question.  Having received the brass or copper smoke stack from Henning's and a solid copper or bronze bell on eBay, I am thinking of darkening them before mounting them to try an match the existing trim on the engine.  Is JAX medium darkening solution the right was to go?  Or, if the train were yours, would you simply leave well enough alone and mount them as-is?

Thanks.

Dave to m

Mount the stack see what she looks like, And a post would be great of your project

@dastrock posted:

I have another related question.  Having received the brass or copper smoke stack from Henning's and a solid copper or bronze bell on eBay, I am thinking of darkening them before mounting them to try an match the existing trim on the engine.  Is JAX medium darkening solution the right was to go?  Or, if the train were yours, would you simply leave well enough alone and mount them as-is?

Thanks.

Dave to m

I agree with Mark. Mount 'er up and see how she looks. Sometimes those oxidizing treatments can turn the piece entirely black and then you're stuck.

So, these two photos were taken without the benefit of a flash.  Also, the stack and bell are not mounted permenantly....just sitting on the boiler top.  I have also included a photo from the 1931 catalog set.

Dave

Leave the stack & bell alone. They will gradually darken naturally to a mutual copper patina.  Harry 

Thank you one and all for your advice.  I will take it and leave well enough alone.

Dave

@dastrock posted:

So, these two photos were taken without the benefit of a flash.  Also, the stack and bell are not mounted permenantly....just sitting on the boiler top.  I have also included a photo from the 1931 catalog set.

Dave

Looks good! Now, how do I time-travel to 1931 to get the set new for $9.95?

Well, Bill, on this one we might not see it quite the same way.  Lionel Trains have ALWAYS been expensive.  Just look at how much some today will pay for a nice engine made in China.  FYI, The same train I showed from the 1931 Lionel Catalog Ad which I displayed here that sold then for $9.95 would cost $219.09 in 2023 dollars.  Taking into consideration a possible collector's premium, it isn't that the train is worth more today.  It is that our money is worth so much less now than then.  Anyway, thanks for you kind comments and everyone's help.

Dave

@dastrock posted:

So, these two photos were taken without the benefit of a flash.  Also, the stack and bell are not mounted permenantly....just sitting on the boiler top.  I have also included a photo from the 1931 catalog set.

Dave

Sharp looking loco I go with Bill and Harry time will make them look like they been on for years

The stack gets tabbed into place and the bell post get inserted in the hole then swaged.  Leave em be,,, they will darken over time.

As promised, here are some photos of the repaired 261.  Included are a closeup of the engine and several others.  Note that I found the two cars on eBay that made up the 1931 set #139.  I only wish the flat car had brass or copper journals.  But, it still makes nice little train.  I  might add some more 800 series freight cars to the set.  Thanks to all of for your suggestions.  On, one more question.  The spokes on the engine drivers are painted red.  On the side that shows in the photos you can still see some red.  But, on the other side of the engine, the red is complelely gone.  My question is simply, if it were yours, would you repaint all the drivers red making them match?

Dave

After a closer look at the catalog photo and my actual set, I see that in the photo of the tender is a four-wheel tender; while what I have is a two four-wheel truck tender.  Now, when I purchased the tender on eBay, it was sold to me as a #261t tender; but it arrived with no markings.  The only tenders I can find on eBay that looks like the catalog picture is a #259t tender.  I am in no way a prewar expert on Lionel.  Can anyone help me out here?  I know sometimes the catalogs at least in the postwar era sometimes didn't mate with reality.  Do I need to try and find another tender for my set?  I have to admit I like it as is; but, having the four wheel cars instead of cars with trucks that match the tender is a little bothersome.

Thanks again.

Dave

This engine would come with either a 4 or 8 wheel tender, often matching the cars it would pull or as a filler o use up inventory. 4 wheel tender was often used with the early 259E but also with the 257 and 258.

Thank you.  That's encouraging.  So, then it would be acceptable to keep or run this engine and the 8 wheel tender with the four wheel cars?  Still, it would be nice it is matched the 1931 catalog set.  Lionel is an amazing study.

Dave

Im an originalist, so I would NOT paint the wheel centers, but since this is a commonly available loco... you can feel free to do what you like... without concern.

There are 2 4 wheel tenders, one die cast (257T) and one Sheet metal (259T)  And the 257T is the correct one for your loco on that set.

Hi Rob:

I went back and looked at the listing from eBay where I purchased the tender.  It is sheet metal.   NOTE:  EBAY LINK REMOVED PER OGR TOS.  As I said, the tender has nothing written on it.  As for painting the driver spokes red, I am thinking about it.

Thanks for you input.

Dave

Okay, I didn't realize the restriction on links.  So, here was the heading of the listing:  "O Gauge Lionel 261T Tender Combo Trim 1935 X3031"  So, I purchased the tender based on the condition and the number it was given in the listing.  It does look nice with the engine now.  As I said, I only wish it was the 4 wheel tin version.  But, if I keep the set, maybe I will just add some cars with four wheel trucks.

Dave

My Point is that there are 2 4 Wheel tenders that would go behin your 261. The Die cast 257T would be the one that matches the cars you got for set #139.

Yes, I understand that.  I was only showing why I purchased the tender that I did before I started this thread.  That is, according the the eBay listing, it matched my engine.  In any event, I am a happy camper and very much appreciate all the responses in this thread.

Dave

My Father's Lionel 261 on my layout smoking as it is coming around a bend on an old wooden bridge.

Just kidding 261's don't smoke it's trick photography with smoke from a model on my layout. I think it looks cool tho. The engine is all original the cars are restored.

Very nice.  I like it.

@dastrock posted:

As promised, here are some photos of the repaired 261.  Included are a closeup of the engine and several others.  Note that I found the two cars on eBay that made up the 1931 set #139.  I only wish the flat car had brass or copper journals.  But, it still makes nice little train.  I  might add some more 800 series freight cars to the set.  Thanks to all of for your suggestions.  On, one more question.  The spokes on the engine drivers are painted red.  On the side that shows in the photos you can still see some red.  But, on the other side of the engine, the red is complelely gone.  My question is simply, if it were yours, would you repaint all the drivers red making them match?

Dave

Looking forward to seeing her on the rails!