Bring Them B-A-C-K! : Golden Gate Depot Heavyweight Passenger Cars

Kyle,

GGD has made heavyweights from plastic in the past.  I own some Missouri Pacific.  Yes, I'd be happy to buy some more.

Oh this is a nice new thread. Yes … it would be great to see a new run of GGD Heavyweights. I’ve advocated for this in other threads. As always, I say … EMAIL Scott and Let Him Know that you’d like to see the heavyweights Offered Again !!!!!! 😉
Cheers 😜

Another run of heavyweights and the Harriman cars would be awesome. My first set of GGD cars was SP green heavyweights and I loved that Scott did these sets in phases spread out over a few years. Made buying an expensive passenger much easier when the cost is spread out.

Scott has typically done plastic heavyweights in pieces. Last offering was for 4 different cars in 2019 and offered a nice selection of different roads. Many are the typical green but there are nice colorful versions too.

2019 Previous offering were fewer car types and fewer roads  

Two sleepers were released in 2017

2015 saw modernized heavyweight coaches offered with a nice variety of roads.  
I’d Really like to see these modernized cars offered again !!!

More later ….

I didn’t even know about those modernized heavyweight coaches. Those are really cool! I have the original run coaches in SP green, a modernized set in TTG would be a nice addition.

I would love some more!

In retrospect, I was fortunate to have bought SP Harriman coaches and a baggage in BRASS when they first offered them in 3 rail.  Then as soon as the heavyweight sleepers were advertised, I bought them also.  Unfortunately, they were offered in only two configurations, so have each of them.  No dinner was offered, so mine is an old Walthers "silver sides" kit upgraded and with an interior added.

So, I would imagine that there should be quite a market demand built up since the last offerings were quite a while ago

In 2010 - only 2 cars but a nice selection of roads.

In 2009 - a decent road selection

And a limited road selection.

This Might be last time a combine was made. 😳🤔🤔🤔 I’d like to see them offered again - they are a nice add for 2ndary or short consists.  

Also 2017 - but in a category by themselves.  
I especially like the cars because of the visually interesting roof exhausts / vents. Zoom in for a close look  Quite nice !!!

I bought 6 Harriman cars on the one run that Scott did. Would have ordered more but finances draw a line somewhere. The Harriman cars do not come up for sale often and when they do, they have held their value.

I’m in need of more baggage cars for my mail train and probably another coach or two. Would also like to get one of the All Day Lunch cars.

@Kyle Pax Express posted:

I'm currently thinking about getting passenger car consists for my Cincinnati, Ohio based layout. However, there are limited options when it comes to 100% prototypical passenger cars. The tooling for Lionel's current heavyweight passenger cars is almost 30 YEARS OLD at this point, and the coaches themselves are M-I-D to say the least (Well, for my standards), and the MTH Premier heavyweight coaches aren't too good either.

Golden Gate Depot hasn't made a run of their's in a while and it seems like it's about time for another run.  There are So MANY different possibilities of different consists with a rerun of these coaches and heck, they could even make a plastic run of these to make them cheaper to produce & buy. Who's with me on this one?

Sincerely

Kyle Paul - A Fellow TrainNerd

Look for a late production K line heavyweight cars

scale cars, beautiful interiors between the car diaphragms that actually touch each other excellent detail who could ask for more.

@Ryan Selvius posted:

I bought 6 Harriman cars on the one run that Scott did. Would have ordered more but finances draw a line somewhere. The Harriman cars do not come up for sale often and when they do, they have held their value.

I’m in need of more baggage cars for my mail train and probably another coach or two. Would also like to get one of the All Day Lunch cars.

Yah - For sure the Harriman cars Rarely show up in the secondary market.

I’d also like to see baggage cars in the next heavyweight run !!! I like to put together mail/express consists. A couple of baggage cars in a consist is just a bit wimpy. Often one would also see an old heavyweight coach or two on the tail end of these trains.    

Cheers😉

I'm up to 43 GGD heavyweights in 2 and 3 rail across many road names.  Probably don't need anymore, but those 8-1-2 Pullmans aren't easy to find! I have yet to find one at a reasonable price.  Diners and observations seem less common as well.

I find these cars to be some of the nicest available for the price point.  Another run is probably in order.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I'm up to 43 GGD heavyweights in 2 and 3 rail across many road names.  Probably don't need anymore, but those 8-1-2 Pullmans aren't easy to find! I have yet to find one at a reasonable price.  Diners and observations seem less common as well.

I find these cars to be some of the nicest available for the price point.  Another run is probably in order.

Hi Jonathan  
Good to see you chime in !!!  I’ve shown info I have but it samples only those plastic models I have in my rail “empire”.  I’ve steered clear of any brass GGD heavyweights. Have I missed anything ??? Any earlier “runs” ???

Perhaps those sleepers would be good candidates for another run - and expanded roads 🤔. Baggage cars are always need for 2ndary trains. I’d love to see combines done too. So few have been done by GGD.  The modernized coaches should be a “must do” !!!

Greenies are an “easy do” for Scott across many roads but here’s hoping we can see many of the later year colorful “repaints” - only prototypical of course. I like a mixed paint consist 😬.

Cheers 😉

Wish they would make some brass Long Island cars!

Some Daylight heavyweight cars in Postwar lettering would be nice as well. A few of these cars were common on the San Joaquin Daylight in the 50s. A heavyweight RPO was almost exclusively in the consist and every now and then a diner and others found there way into the consist. I need to research specifics a bit more.

Since GGD did the Daylight last year and the dome lounges, doing a SJ Daylight heavyweight supplement would be a cool set for those of us who bought Daylight sets. One could easily build either train with the assortment of cars.

I have the 3-car head-end heavyweight set and the 4-wheel-trucked coaches, but would like to see some Pullman cars offered again.

You may want to move this post to the 3 rail scale forum and tag Scott Mann @sdmann

Not counting baggage or RPO cars, I have 14 passenger cars, 13 GGD and 1 Sunset.  Not too happy with my early P70 4-pack due to the couplers always opening.  What I don't have is a HW observation, so I'd take one of those.  Another P70-FAR would be nice.

If they were to do new tooling, I would buy these PRR designs:

- 6-wheel truck baggage-mail car with round roof like the BM70m or BM70n.

-Either a 6-compartment/3-drawing room or 6-section/6-double bedroom sleeper.

-Either Eventide or Nocturne.  These had 16 duplex single rooms.

@NYC 428 posted:

Wish they would make some brass Long Island cars!

I have three 3rd Rail Brass P70 coaches in Long Island.  I find the brass P70s a little nicer than the plastic ones due to the design of the letterboard. 

I believe this is the complete set of GGD plastic tooled cars released over the years:

• PRR P70 style 80' coaches done in multiple roads with either PRR 2D-P5 trucks, 4 wheel AAR trucks, or 6 wheel heavyweight trucks depending on road name.
• P70FAr modernized coaches with accommodations for various truck styles depending on the road name.
• Head end sets consisting of a baggage car, RPO, and a baggage coach.  All have 6 wheel trucks to my knowledge.
• Diners based on the PRR D78 design in multiple roads with 6 wheel trucks.
• Pullman Standard observations in multiple roads.  I do not know the exact plan, but I believe it is the most common one with the three bedrooms.
• Pullman Standard sleepers in 12-1 and 8-1-2 configurations.
• 60' Harriman cars in a baggage, rpo, coach, lunch coach, and observation.

One can make a great train with these cars and they also work really well mixed with streamlined cars for a more prototypical consist.  Many of these cars ran almost up Amtrak on some roads.

The coaches served well into the 70's in commuter services too.

Jonathan. Thanks for the great summary !!! 👍 🙂

New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute.

@rdunniii posted:

New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute.

That Really Stinks !!!      

So the key word is “about”.  

I hope the 2 sleepers tooling is still around. Not a lot of roads were offered for them. An expanded offering should sell well.  

Looks like coaches are “toast” based on dates. These haven’t been done in quite a long time. Though new tooling would be required, an expansive offering should also sell well.   The modernized coach would be a nice add. Being different adds diversity to a consist - and blends nice in a streamline consist.  

It looks like tooling for the baggage, RPO, Diner, Observation survive (though the Combine did not).  These would All do well.

The surviving tooling should help offset new tooling costs - I hope. Perhaps the cars with new tooling can receive some modest detail upgrades.

Just curious and looking to understand.  Is 1 green model decalled for 10 different roads 1 SKU ? 🤔🤔 To that, Add 5 Paint variations, then total equals 6 SKUs ? 🤔🤔 Just trying to imagine offering structure and limitations.

Cheers 😉

There were a couple of runs of 12-1s.  Roads included:

1. Pullman Green
2. Pullman Two Tone GrayUnlettered Green
3. Erie Two Tone Green
4. Lackawanna
5. B&M
6. B&O
7. C&O
8. CB&Q
9. CP
10. GN
11. NH
12. N&W
13. NP
14. NYC Green
15. NYC Two Tone Gray
16. PRR
17. Santa Fe
18. SP Green
19. SP Two Tone Gray
20. UP Yellow
21. UP Two Tone Gray
22. MILW

I was surprised myself when I looked at the various boxes I have. 

Other roads done on other cars include:

1. SP Daylight
2. Erie Green
3. C&O Green
4. CN
5. SP&S
6. Southern
7. Rio Grande

Not all paint schemes made it to all the cars, and this doesn't include the road names that went on the Harriman cars which would add IC, RI, and CNW to the mix.

Hi,

Richards comment is accurate about previous Aluminum projects prior to 2015.

Richard Wrote: "New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute."

But we still have all the tooling for our plastic HW cars, Sleepers, Coaches, Head End, etc.

And, we don't need most of the car / window punch tools, as we cut all the windows on the fly with CNC machines.

All's good...

Scott

@sdmann posted:

Hi,

Richards comment is accurate about previous Aluminum projects prior to 2015.

Richard Wrote: "New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute."

But we still have all the tooling for our plastic HW cars, Sleepers, Coaches, Head End, etc.

And, we don't need most of the car / window punch tools, as we cut all the windows on the fly with CNC machines.

All's good...

Scott

Wonderful !!!!

Thanks for this Heads Up Info  
Scott !!!!  Perhaps responses to this thread and Emails Direct to You can give you a sense of what everyone would like to See First. Dates of previous run of cars will likely give guidance too.

Cheers 😉

+1 for Pullman Green, Virginian-lettered 80' all-steel heavyweight Pullman coaches!  They were classified as CH-4 by VGN and numbered 200-209 with six-wheel trucks.

The Virginian also had some other Pullman-manufactured passenger equipment including Pullman RPO / Baggage and Baggage / Express cars which probably map well to some of the previous runs detailed by Jonathan above, as well as some really cool, individually named Pullman Club and Business (observation) cars.

In the past, Scott might do 4 cars at a time. Which cars would everyone like to see   first ?????
My vote is baggage, 2 sleepers, and Coach.  I’d like to see both old And modernized Coach (that would be 5) but if just one coach were to be offered, I’d prefer the modernized version.  They will fit in Nicely with all the passenger consists Scott has done.
Cheers 😉

For me personally, the diners and the observations are the hardest ones to find on the secondary market.  I have several roads that could use a diner for sure, and while observation cars didn't run on every train, you need at least one for each road you model, correct?

Also for some reason the 8-1-2 Pullman plan almost never shows up on the secondary market.  I haven't done my research to see if they were less common on the railroads, but I have yet to find one.

@sdmann posted:

Hi,

Richards comment is accurate about previous Aluminum projects prior to 2015.

Richard Wrote: "New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute."

But we still have all the tooling for our plastic HW cars, Sleepers, Coaches, Head End, etc.

And, we don't need most of the car / window punch tools, as we cut all the windows on the fly with CNC machines.

All's good...

Scott

So that means all the PRR P70 coaches and the P70FAR coaches as well! Bummer!

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

So that means all the PRR P70 coaches and the P70FAR coaches as well! Bummer!

Scott said the tooling exists for all the plastic heavyweight cars.  It's the aluminum cars that were done prior to 2016 that he does not have access to.  The nice thing is that the aluminum cars can be redone easily compared to an injection tooled model and now are being designed using 3D modeling, so the aluminum cars are more accurate than the original offerings.

The biggest challenge is just getting enough interest to in the plastic cars to place an order with the builder who does the injection molding on those cars.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Scott said the tooling exists for all the plastic heavyweight cars.  It's the aluminum cars that were done prior to 2016 that he does not have access to.  The nice thing is that the aluminum cars can be redone easily compared to an injection tooled model and now are being designed using 3D modeling, so the aluminum cars are more accurate than the original offerings.

The biggest challenge is just getting enough interest to in the plastic cars to place an order with the builder who does the injection molding on those cars.

And to make the vestibules more robust so the couplers dont yank them out on a train.

I haven’t paid much attention to the couplers but I’m thinking there’s old construction and new construction. I pulled 2 easy grab cars off the shelf. The old was a coach and new a baggage car.

Big differences- check it out.

Here’s the old assembly - 2009 vintage


Here’s the newer coupler below - 2019 vintage

I don’t think this new truck-coupler assembly will be a problem.

One solution would be to make the doors fixed and not operable.  I think that is the biggest detraction from most non-brass cars and locomotives.  The doors just never close quite right and there is a huge gap.  Making the doors fixed would go a long way towards making the vestibules more robust.  However, I have never had an issue of couplers coming off on mine. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

One solution would be to make the doors fixed and not operable.  I think that is the biggest detraction from most non-brass cars and locomotives.  The doors just never close quite right and there is a huge gap.  Making the doors fixed would go a long way towards making the vestibules more robust.  However, I have never had an issue of couplers coming off on mine.

I’d be for fixed doors. I never got why working doors were important. 🤔 Perhaps the fixed door would make assembly easier - a good thing. 😉

Yes! More GGD heavyweights. I would love to see more heavyweight sleeper types too. Harrimans would be great. Also, let’s do more than just pullman green, PRR Tuscan, two tone grey, & UP yellow. Let’s add more road name variations  like Southern, SF, & CB&Q silver shadow line cars, Southern Crescent limited green 21” heavyweights, The Orange blossom special, PRR yellow Kid, & so much more.

@sdmann posted:

Hi,

Richards comment is accurate about previous Aluminum projects prior to 2015.

Richard Wrote: "New tooling will be required for anything plastic older than about 2017.  The previous factory destroyed all of it due to a dispute."

But we still have all the tooling for our plastic HW cars, Sleepers, Coaches, Head End, etc.

And, we don't need most of the car / window punch tools, as we cut all the windows on the fly with CNC machines.

All's good...

Scott

Scott,

I don't want to go too off-topic but since you said that you still have the plastic head end tooling, any chance we could get those beautiful GGD 54' Reefers to go with some GGD heavyweight cars?
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...c/176694689197168822

Best,
Bryce

I have a lot of GGD plastic coaches and sleepers and i want more...More..MORE!!!

I'm currently on the hunt for and would love a rerun of:

Norfolk and Western Heavyweight Coaches, Pullman Sleepers, Diner and Observation

PRR Modernized Heavyweight p70s

PRSL Heavyweight p70s

Pullman Green Sleepers

and in the next run...

How about a LIRR Cannonball set! Pullman Sleepers with coach seating replaced and an Observaton!

(id post a photo but you know the rules.... so check out these beauties on google)

@GG1 4877 posted:

The biggest challenge is just getting enough interest to in the plastic cars to place an order with the builder who does the injection molding on those cars.

One of my dreams is GGD to reoffer the PRR Congressional 12 car set in plastic!

@greg773 posted:

One of my dreams is GGD to reoffer the PRR Congressional 12 car set in plastic!

Interesting. Wonder if there is a way to just do plastic budd train sets, like the congressional, the sunset limited, the Empire State express. It’s all the same fluting pattern. Maybe skirts (for sets that had them) could be a separate detail part that’s added. Not sure if this is practical, but it looks good in my mind

Count me in for a re-run of 8-1-2’s, 12-1’s in NYC TTGray, Pullman TTGray and green, Southern, Pennsy, and Frisco. Modernized coaches in Pennsy and Southern would be great too.

We are in the process of moving our tooling to our current car producer so we can be ready to run any of our previously released offerings.

The Congressional Ltd was a one off. We were left with stock that sold very very slowly over years, so we probably will not rerun this again.

Thanks for all your suggestions and enthusiasm. That's the grease that keeps this engine running.

Sincerely,

Scott Mann

Thanks, Scott.  Things sound hopeful.

There is a growing interest in mail trains and "secondary" passenger trains, especially in head-end cars, and it would be nice if baggage cars would be available with both clerestory roof, such as Santa Fe (green), as well as monitor roof, such as modernized Missouri Pacific (Eagle) and Frisco (green).  I think Erie was another road which modernized some heavyweights with monitor roofs.  Union Pacific as well as Southern Pacific had plenty, and didn't Southern and Illinois Central modernize some, too?

Just a thought.

Scott,

Thanks for all your services.

I don't know if these will get much demand, but a rerelease of the Harriman style heavyweight Pullmans I would be all in for, particularly ones in Grand Canyon Railway markings (the ex-Southern Pacific examples now owned by the GCR).  I've been wanting to make a Grand Canyon excursion consist!

If not those, Nickel Plate Road Heavyweight Pullmans (later used on the Cuyahoga Valley Line) would be equally wonderful! I just snapped up some modernized PRR P70's and would like to complete my 1980's CVL excursion train.

@Number 90 posted:

Thanks, Scott.  Things sound hopeful.

There is a growing interest in mail trains and "secondary" passenger trains, especially in head-end cars, and it would be nice if baggage cars would be available with both clerestory roof, such as Santa Fe (green), as well as monitor roof, such as modernized Missouri Pacific (Eagle) and Frisco (green).  I think Erie was another road which modernized some heavyweights with monitor roofs.  Union Pacific as well as Southern Pacific had plenty, and didn't Southern and Illinois Central modernize some, too?

Just a thought.

A Very GOOD Thought Tom. Thank you so much !!!  I’ve been trying to promote Modernized heavyweights in various threads as well as mail / express / “secondary” trains. These trains are “build it yourself” efforts and building them, typically one car at a time, is a lot of fun.  They are usually quite eclectic and visually always interesting. 🤔  

Cheers  😉

I emailed Scott requesting silver shadowline heavyweights in multiple road names to match past & upcoming golden gate depot sets.

also asked about Southern Green and Long Island railroad cannonball parlor cars (LIRR heavyweight parlors were 12-1, 8-1-2 sleepers, and observations)

Anybody want a newly tooled heavyweight solarium car and possibly a diner that’s not PRR specific tooling? The previous runs of heavyweight diners were PRR D78C’s painted in UP/ SP/ Santa Fe/ NY central etc.  Many years ago 3rd rail did a brass “Pullman” diner. It would be nice if this car was offered again in plastic.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Anybody want a newly tooled heavyweight solarium car and possibly a diner that’s not PRR specific tooling? The previous runs of heavyweight diners were PRR D78C’s painted in UP/ SP/ Santa Fe/ NY central etc.  Many years ago 3rd rail did a brass “Pullman” diner. It would be nice if this car was offered again in plastic.

I'll be "that guy" and state that I love the PRR specific tooling!   The D78 is one of two cars I'm missing in my GGD heavyweight collection and it's hard to find!  The other is the observation.  I had an opportunity to buy a fine scale brass D78 online a few years back and thought about it for a few minutes and it was gone!

OK Folks !!!!!  
Scott has posted a New Heavyweight offering !!!!! 👍😳😮😜😜😜
YAY !!!!!!!!!! 😉😉😉😉😉

Pre and Post war coaches And 2 sleepers - 8-1-2 and 12-1.
Its for openers. Check if your road is there. If not, email Scott. It’s ALL ABOUT NUMBERS.
Cheers 👍🙂😉

Awesome!!! Me and some other lawnguylanders asked Scott for the Long Island railroad cannonball heavyweight scheme. If your a long islander please email Scott & help us get this scheme done.

Woooooo!!!!!!

SCOTT!!!!! Post reservations for a LIRR Canonball! I promise that @Dj’sOgaugetrains and I will give you all the research you need to do it right!!!

Also,  I don’t see a link to order PRR FOM sleepers on the site… fix that 😜

Excited to see the modernized coaches in there so will definitely order some of these. Also really glad the cars are ala cart instead of 4 packs.

I've updated our web site with more info and ways to order. I imagine customer are going to want a variety of things, so just email us, or use the Special Note section of the reservation page to outline your order. We'll enter it and send a confirmation with in a few days. Remember, our Secretary is in only MWF.

http://www.goldengatedepot.com...ervation.html#GGDHWC

Cheers,

Scott Mann

Great Update Scott. 👍👍👍          
The expanded use of pictures should act like a Magnet to attract reservations !!!! 😜

@GG1 4877 posted:

I'll be "that guy" and state that I love the PRR specific tooling!   The D78 is one of two cars I'm missing in my GGD heavyweight collection and it's hard to find!  The other is the observation.  I had an opportunity to buy a fine scale brass D78 online a few years back and thought about it for a few minutes and it was gone!

I have the D78 and would like to get the observation.  You are correct that both just don't show up for sale, probably because so few were made.  Here is my diner.

I noticed that GGD is not doing these this time.  Maybe next time.

Scott has just added Milwaukee Road, Seaboard, and (!) Virginian to the coaches!  I'd be super stoked if Virginian actually gets made!

@CAPPilot posted:

I have the D78 and would like to get the observation.  You are correct that both just don't show up for sale, probably because so few were made.  Here is my diner.

I noticed that GGD is not doing these this time.  Maybe next time.

@GG1 4877 posted:

I'll be "that guy" and state that I love the PRR specific tooling!   The D78 is one of two cars I'm missing in my GGD heavyweight collection and it's hard to find!  The other is the observation.  I had an opportunity to buy a fine scale brass D78 online a few years back and thought about it for a few minutes and it was gone!

I also love the D78 dining car tooling. I own one from the previous run. I’m just hoping for the next run of diners, maybe we can get the D78 plus a more west coast specific diner. Time will tell.

This is great news. And of course I'm delighted to see the B&O included. Any word on prototypical observation cars and head-end cars?

Mr Scott, thank you for making my dream come true!!

Kyle Paul, A Fellow "Train-Nerd"

Besides PRR, what other roads had arch roof heavyweight coaches with picture windows?  I can find prototype images of arch roof heavyweights but not a lot of cars with both an arch roof *and* picture windows.

Thank you Scott Mann for hearing the pleas of we the common forum folk!  

Very Excited about a Prewar T&P Heavyweight Green Pullman Offering...I don't know of any O Gauge in the past.

There were two 12-1 Sleepers I know of The Goliad and The Lavaca.

Getting on the research now.

I will take every Sleeper and Coach Scott is willing to make.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I also love the D78 dining car tooling. I own one from the previous run. I’m just hoping for the next run of diners, maybe we can get the D78 plus a more west coast specific diner. Time will tell.

I think it would be great if GGD did a west coast specific diner.  The issue, I think, is we will not see new tooling for a while.  I hope I am wrong, but doing reissues seems to be the thing due to cost. 

However, if they did do new tooling I would think it would be a car that folks would buy a lot of, like a coach or pullman/sleeper.

@Greg from Texas posted:

Very Excited about a Prewar T&P Heavyweight Green Pullman Offering...I don't know of any O Gauge in the past.

There were two 12-1 Sleepers I know of The Goliad and The Lavaca.

Getting on the research now.

I will take every Sleeper and Coach Scott is willing to make.

In the last heavyweight offering (2019) Scott did green T&P / baggage, RPO, diner, observation. I’d bet there weren’t many done. I’ve Never seen Any in the resale market. I hope u picked  up these 4 then. 🤔

@CAPPilot posted:

I have the D78 and would like to get the observation.  You are correct that both just don't show up for sale, probably because so few were made.  Here is my diner.

I noticed that GGD is not doing these this time.  Maybe next time.

I second the desire for an observation car!

@BlueFeather posted:

Besides PRR, what other roads had arch roof heavyweight coaches with picture windows?  I can find prototype images of arch roof heavyweights but not a lot of cars with both an arch roof *and* picture windows.

While they won't completely match the prototype, UP both put arched roofs on their modernized coaches.  Other roads did similar treatments, especially when air conditioning was added.  I just need to spend some time to track them down.

Union Pacific Modernized Coach

@GG1 4877 posted:

While they won't completely match the prototype, UP both put arched roofs on their modernized coaches.  Other roads did similar treatments, especially when air conditioning was added.  I just need to spend some time to track them down.

Union Pacific Modernized Coach

I seem to remember that some roads modernized the roof And windows, some did just the roof. In time, the Research will tell…..it’s early. 🤔

Cheers 😉

Anyone out there besides me want to see NDM Offered ???  This could build on the first NDM streamlined 10-6 from the Eagle offering !!!!! Chime in And send Scott an email please.

Southern had arched roof modernized heavyweights. Window pattern is a little different on the models but close.

@TrainBub posted:

Anyone out there besides me want to see NDM Offered ???  This could build on the first NDM streamlined 10-6 from the Eagle offering !!!!! Chime in And send Scott an email please.

If Scott offers an NdeM heavyweight scheme I'm likely a dead man with my wife.  So do I vote no for this or yes?  

Some sleepers and coaches would go nicely with my 10-6, but then I would need motive power.  This hobby is such a slippery slope!

@BlueFeather posted:

Besides PRR, what other roads had arch roof heavyweight coaches with picture windows?  I can find prototype images of arch roof heavyweights but not a lot of cars with both an arch roof *and* picture windows.

If its true 1:48 scale and prototypical to the B&O, its gonna be really hard not to buy what Scott’s selling.

It appears that the Baltimore and Ohio had heavyweight coach cars converted to having picture windows and domed roofs. I will leave it to the experts to ascertain that. In the “Coaches” section of B&O Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Craig T. Bossler, my layman's eye can spot what might be some of them:

   B&O College Hill (3567)

   B&O 3579

   B&O 3583

Also, there were Diners B&O 1077 and B&O Loch Awe. These are said to have been used on the National Limited. Diner 1035 is also shown with picture windows and arched roof.

Sleeper Sugar Loaf Mountain had picture windows and a deep arched roof. It is said to have been among modernized 14 section Pullmans.

... and prototypical Head End cars, please!

@sdmann or @GG1 4877 I saw a question from elsewhere, but any idea of the number of road numbers per car? Or is that something to be determined later?

@naresar posted:

@sdmann or @GG1 4877 I saw a question from elsewhere, but any idea of the number of road numbers per car? Or is that something to be determined later?

Typically the number of road numbers is based on the whomever orders the most of the same car type.  In short, order 10 coaches yourself and there will likely be 10 road numbers.  It does all get sorted out once orders are finalized.

I am in trouble.  Current want list includes Virginian, Southern, B&O, and perhaps a single of Seaboard and C&O.  Also want to research if this mold would work for RF&P.

@jstraw124 posted:

I am in trouble.  Current want list includes Virginian, Southern, B&O, and perhaps a single of Seaboard and C&O.  Also want to research if this mold would work for RF&P.

Hah sounds a lot like me, plus a few more.  This will be a big order when the time comes.

@GG1 4877 posted:

If Scott offers an NdeM heavyweight scheme I'm likely a dead man with my wife.  So do I vote no for this or yes?

Some sleepers and coaches would go nicely with my 10-6, but then I would need motive power.  This hobby is such a slippery slope!

Yes !!! Many of us are definitely on that slippery slope. I passed on the run 1 3rd Rail NDM F3 but when it was offered again in run 2 I needed it for the MP Eagle extension into Mexico as the Aztec Eagle. So it began.  It’s a beauty. The GGD Eagle offering delivered my first NDM passenger car, an Ex-NYC 10-6 here painted in NDM colors.
Now I look forward to expanding my do it yourself consist with the GGD NDM 12-1 And Coach. The GGD MP 10-6 Budd also goes into the consist as it rode into Mexico.

You vote Yes for this  Jonathan 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Cheers 😉

Ok ok, I know it’s not exactly specific to this topic. But if Scott was to do a diner/ observation run following these coaches & sleepers…. I want a Solarium car. Anybody else?

Hi Folks,

Diners, Head End (Baggage / RPO / Combine), Observation Cars were made in 2019 and the tooling exists, and can all be made in a subsequent run after these. That way we can announce all the successful roads of this run in future runs. All our tooling is moving into our current car manufacturer.

In the previous run of 2019, we improved our 3R coupler assembly, and these cars will enjoy that upgrade as well. I am thinking to supply the Kadee mounts and screws in each 3R box as well.

Clerestory and Arched Roofs: These car bodies are assembled, not a one piece plastic part, the roofs are screwed on to the car from below, so I could make extras and customers could buy roofs separately and change out their Clerestory for Arched and visa versa at will.

These cars are all based on accurate PRR cars, then we offer them in a generic form for all other roads. Sometimes we will be close, sometimes not, it all depends on what you want for your layout or collection.  I think it's going to be a fun project for us and our customers.

Cheers,

Scott Mann

@Norman R posted:

If its true 1:48 scale and prototypical to the B&O, its gonna be really hard not to buy what Scott’s selling.

It appears that the Baltimore and Ohio had heavyweight coach cars converted to having picture windows and domed roofs. I will leave it to the experts to ascertain that. In the “Coaches” section of B&O Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Craig T. Bossler, my layman's eye can spot what might be some of them:

   B&O College Hill (3567)

   B&O 3579

   B&O 3583

Also, there were Diners B&O 1077 and B&O Loch Awe. These are said to have been used on the National Limited. Diner 1035 is also shown with picture windows and arched roof.

Sleeper Sugar Loaf Mountain had picture windows and a deep arched roof. It is said to have been among modernized 14 section Pullmans.

... and prototypical Head End cars, please!

Oh !!! Modernized diners for the B&O National - and specific names / numbers. I’ll be in for that when Scott gets to the Next Round of heavyweights as I’m building a do-it-yourself National consist via GGD and 3rd Rail offerings (see in another forum thread).
Thanks Norman R.

Calling for some Videos of previous runs of these cars? If you got them can post them, appreciated.

Scott Mann

Here are 3 GGD heavyweights which were custom painted by Christine Braden.   CN mixed consists of streamlined and heavyweight equipment.   Video would not load but here are 3 pics.

@VistaDomeScott posted:

Here are 3 GGD heavyweights which were custom painted by Christine Braden.   CN mixed consists of streamlined and heavyweight equipment.   Video would not load but here are 3 pics.

Those look really sharp with the CN noodles!

Operating of a fellow TCA Desert Division member's layout last April.  Ignore the silver cars in the middle of the train by "Brand X".  ATSF RPO, two coaches, and a Pullman 12-1 pulled by an A-B EA set. 

I have managed to collect a few of these cars over the years.  A sampling of some of them.

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

Diners, Head End (Baggage / RPO / Combine), Observation Cars were made in 2019 and the tooling exists, and can all be made in a subsequent run after these. That way we can announce all the successful roads of this run in future runs. All our tooling is moving into our current car manufacturer.

In the previous run of 2019, we improved our 3R coupler assembly, and these cars will enjoy that upgrade as well. I am thinking to supply the Kadee mounts and screws in each 3R box as well.

Clerestory and Arched Roofs: These car bodies are assembled, not a one piece plastic part, the roofs are screwed on to the car from below, so I could make extras and customers could buy roofs separately and change out their Clerestory for Arched and visa versa at will.

These cars are all based on accurate PRR cars, then we offer them in a generic form for all other roads. Sometimes we will be close, sometimes not, it all depends on what you want for your layout or collection.  I think it's going to be a fun project for us and our customers.

Cheers,

Scott Mann

Scott,

Thank you so much for the detailed information. Part of the fun of model railroading can be learning about the prototype and what is an accurate representation of it. I appreciate the candor above because any time you model anything (or are even involved in a 1:1 restoration), it’s about rigorously knowing the details of the prototype and deciding where practical compromises need to be made. One that looms large for me is the reality that there needs to be a critical mass of buyers for a product before the non-recurring costs can be overcome. I want my models as authentic to the B&O prototype as possible. But if you can’t make a profit on them you can’t stay in business, and I will get no new models. I appreciate your pursuit of authenticity.

Here’s a bit “across the board” GGD - neat but is not all applicable to this heavyweight run.  This is an example of building a do-it-yourself consist one or two cars at a time.  Patience is the key.
So a bit of SLO-MO for nice viewing.
All SF.
L to R / Horse Express (brass), modernized coach, diner, observation

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

Diners, Head End (Baggage / RPO / Combine), Observation Cars were made in 2019 and the tooling exists, and can all be made in a subsequent run after these. That way we can announce all the successful roads of this run in future runs. All our tooling is moving into our current car manufacturer.

Scott,

Appreciate the info, thank you. I want to complete my mail trains so this great news! When you do the subsequent run of the head end cars, could we get some matching boxcars/reefers to go along with the head end offerings? 

@VistaDomeScott posted:

Here are 3 GGD heavyweights which were custom painted by Christine Braden.   CN mixed consists of streamlined and heavyweight equipment.   Video would not load but here are 3 pics.

Those are really sharp!

Here’s a video of a slightly truncated set of SP green heavyweights (only pulling 2 coaches and no combine). A mail train makes a guest appearance with some GGD Harrimans.

Really glad to see the roofs available for separate sale.
Scott, will the arch roofs fit the first production run of coaches?

This is excellent news!  I just placed a reservation for four cars.  I'm hoping for Illinois Central to start creating a Seminole consist, but unlettered green will work for repaint.

T&P and NdeM fans.  
Scott will be adding T&P to the 8-1-2 offering. I’ve been able to document it via pic (Eagle paint) and text. It ran between San Antonio and Mexico City in the 50s on the Aztec Eagle.
Cheers 😉

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...5#184015749525196485

That is fantastic, I have found little to no pics on the prewar T&P green heavyweights. I have never seen an 8-1-2. Only the Pullnam 12-1s. Please share a picture. However, I see you are saying this has eagle paint...so not a T&P Green?

Either way please share the picture with me, private message if you cant post it.

Thanks!!!!

@Greg from Texas posted:

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...5#184015749525196485

That is fantastic, I have found little to no pics on the prewar T&P green heavyweights. I have never seen an 8-1-2. Only the Pullnam 12-1s. Please share a picture. However, I see you are saying this has eagle paint...so not a T&P Green?

Either way please share the picture with me, private message if you cant post it.

Thanks!!!!

Regret pix not allowed so I’ve sent the 8-1-2 image direct to you.
For ALL, here is a good heavyweight reference book (IMO).  Lots of greenies, TTG examples.  
Lots of MP, T&P, NdeM info over in the MP T&P Eagle thread. Check it out !!! 🤔
Cheers 😉

It's funny, I've been spending my free time, which admittedly has been quite limited lately looking up NdeM photographs on the net and saving them.  One of my favorite photos so far is this one:  https://railphoto-art.org/coll...ig[1]/FL/49670519082

Just everything about this scene speaks to me, the mixture of cars, the boxcar as a baggage car, a steam locomotive assisting the F unit up the hill, the scenery, and the geometry of the track against the hillside.  This seems like a pretty reasonable train to model in its scale too at 7 cars.  Definitely becoming interested in learning more.

This particular site has some gorgeous photographs in general that anyone who loves trains can appreciate.

Will the NdeM heavyweights all be the same paint scheme? When I look at pictures of NdeM cars they all seem to look different.

@GG1 4877 posted:

It's funny, I've been spending my free time, which admittedly has been quite limited lately looking up NdeM photographs on the net and saving them.  One of my favorite photos so far is this one:  https://railphoto-art.org/coll...ig[1]/FL/49670519082

Just everything about this scene speaks to me, the mixture of cars, the boxcar as a baggage car, a steam locomotive assisting the F unit up the hill, the scenery, and the geometry of the track against the hillside.  This seems like a pretty reasonable train to model in its scale too at 7 cars.  Definitely becoming interested in learning more.

This particular site has some gorgeous photographs in general that anyone who loves trains can appreciate.

Great link! Love all the photos

Scott just added NdeM FA-2’s to pull all these NdeM heavyweights!! I’m in!

Scott just added NdeM FA-2’s to pull all these NdeM heavyweights!! I’m in!

Awesome!

Not seeing them yet, but will keep looking!

Yep see them now!

@seank941 posted:

Will the NdeM heavyweights all be the same paint scheme? When I look at pictures of NdeM cars they all seem to look different.

It would be a pretty good assumption that the heavyweights will match the paint scheme done on the NdeM 10-6 sleepers from the Eagle run.  This was a common paint scheme on NdeM in the late 1950's into the 1960's. 

I have a question regarding the NdeM sleepers & F3’s that were produced. Why don’t the greens match? Is that prototypical? Seems like the greens should match..? @TrainBub

@sdmann posted:

Calling for some Videos of previous runs of these cars? If you got them can post them, appreciated.

Scott Mann

@sdmann any chance we can ever see the brass BM70m again?

@greg773 posted:

@sdmann any chance we can ever see the brass BM70m again?

Sign me up!  +1 (or two)

I have both BM70m’s from the last run, but I’ll take a horse car!!! Maybe 2 horse cars.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I have both BM70m’s from the last run, but I’ll take a horse car!!! Maybe 2 horse cars.

DJ! Hook me up with the FOM!!!!

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

I have both BM70m’s from the last run, but I’ll take a horse car!!! Maybe 2 horse cars.

Oh my !!! 😮🫣  It’s been 10 years since the horse cars were done. Very Nice Cars.

Getting brass cars done today may prove to be difficult. If done, They will be Very Expensive !!!! - which will limit participation. IMHO of course.    
Cheers 😉

@greg773 posted:

DJ! Hook me up with the FOM!!!!

Aahh I can’t! It’s too nice looking on the head end of my FOM train.

@TrainBub posted:

Oh my !!! 😮🫣  It’s been 10 years since the horse cars were done. Very Nice Cars.

Getting brass cars done today may prove to be difficult. If done, They will be Very Expensive !!!! - which will limit participation. IMHO of course.    
Cheers 😉

Yes they would… maybe a plastic run? Hmmm

Hey TrainBub, how big is your layout? (Just wondering

Kyle - A fellow "Train-Nerd"

@Kyle Pax Express posted:

Hey TrainBub, how big is your layout? (Just wondering

Kyle - A fellow "Train-Nerd"

It a modest 8X12. 🫣 That’s the max I can manage as I’m in a condo. I’ve strived to manage with this size via planning and thru effective use of O96/72 curved switches. All curves are O72 as I run 21” passengers. Track and switches are Ross.  You can see a bit of it a bit back in this thread.
Cheers 😉

I'm still hoping for brown and orange Illinois Central.  To my Knowledge, no one has ever produced Illinois Central heavyweights (except a custom run of 18-inch cars from Mr. Muffins).

Will the T&P sleepers match the coaches, or be pullman green?

I would also like to know what scheme the ACL pullmans will carry. Obviously I prefer the PURPLE. Scott, are you listening??

@sdmann I would absolutely like to be able to buy interchangeable roofs. Would you be able to add unlettered Tuscan cars in addition to the unlettered green?

Thanks!

Scott,

The Southern and the Santa Fe had some 12-1 Pullmans painted silver with shadow lines painted on to simulate fluted sides. This was an effort by these railroads to match their stainless steel lightweight cars. This would be a neat paint scheme to offer and hasn’t been done in O Scale.

@Joe Congemi posted:

Scott,

The Southern and the Santa Fe had some 12-1 Pullmans painted silver with shadow lines painted on to simulate fluted sides. This was an effort by these railroads to match their stainless steel lightweight cars. This would be a neat paint scheme to offer and hasn’t been done in O Scale.

I requested these from Scott & sent him photo references. I’m glad I’m not the only one who wants them 🙃

I'd take a Southern shadow line car.

Seaboard also had some shadowline Pullmans, plus an observation car in this scheme.

This goes way back, but I did some artwork for Scott doing shadow line painting for some other projects.  Might be worth resurrecting.  No pun intended on this holy day for many.

Just a few suggestions:

@Purplepapa posted:

Just a few suggestions:

Beautiful! Would you email these to Scott Mann?

I am probably going to order the Baltimore and Ohio sleepers and coaches. Does anyone have information on how close these are to the real B&O cars? Also, are the modernized coaches close to anything the B and O had?

@GG1 4877 posted:

This goes way back, but I did some artwork for Scott doing shadow line painting for some other projects.  Might be worth resurrecting.  No pun intended on this holy day for many.

Let me know how many orders you need to make this reservation a go and I’ll talk to my O Scale friends not here on the forum.

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

Diners, Head End (Baggage / RPO / Combine), Observation Cars were made in 2019 and the tooling exists, and can all be made in a subsequent run after these. That way we can announce all the successful roads of this run in future runs. All our tooling is moving into our current car manufacturer.

In the previous run of 2019, we improved our 3R coupler assembly, and these cars will enjoy that upgrade as well. I am thinking to supply the Kadee mounts and screws in each 3R box as well.

Clerestory and Arched Roofs: These car bodies are assembled, not a one piece plastic part, the roofs are screwed on to the car from below, so I could make extras and customers could buy roofs separately and change out their Clerestory for Arched and visa versa at will.

These cars are all based on accurate PRR cars, then we offer them in a generic form for all other roads. Sometimes we will be close, sometimes not, it all depends on what you want for your layout or collection.  I think it's going to be a fun project for us and our customers.

Cheers,

Scott Mann

I’ll take 5 arched roofs, Scott. Would you be offering floors and trucks as well?

@BlueFeather posted:

Besides PRR, what other roads had arch roof heavyweight coaches with picture windows?  I can find prototype images of arch roof heavyweights but not a lot of cars with both an arch roof *and* picture windows.

For certain:  Frisco, Union Pacific

I think . . . :  Erie, Southern, NC&StL/L&N

One more Pullman paint scheme suggestion.

@Purplepapa posted:

Just a few suggestions:

I would absolutely buy this one in an undecorated Pullman version.

I think the Cuyahoga Valley Line ran one of these (along with a couple of 12-1 Heavyweights) when they were running 4070 and the ex-Pennsylvania P70's.

Can anyone verify? I'd drop some photographs to illustrate what I'm after, but it's against forum rules and regulations.

Just gonna throw this out there, anybody want a more luxurious heavyweight sleeper? I’m thinking the 6-3 (6 compartments 3 drawing rooms) or the 7 drawing room sleepers found only on a few of the most luxurious passenger trains.

12-1’s were a sectional sleeper & 8-1-2’s were a sectional/ bedroom car. Thinking an all bedroom car would be a sweet addition to the fleet.

see them here http://www.northeast.railfan.n...lassic/CARdwgs4.html

That Rebuilt 6-6 type in Pullman green is the one I'm after! Thanks DJ.

If observation cars are ever offered, would love to see one in this scheme (my picture).

www.youtube.com/trainbros89

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Just gonna throw this out there, anybody want a more luxurious heavyweight sleeper? I’m thinking the 6-3 (6 compartments 3 drawing rooms) or the 7 drawing room sleepers found only on a few of the most luxurious passenger trains.

12-1’s were a sectional sleeper & 8-1-2’s were a sectional/ bedroom car. Thinking an all bedroom car would be a sweet addition to the fleet.

see them here http://www.northeast.railfan.n...lassic/CARdwgs4.html

I hope everyone gets what they want.  What I want to see though are the basic cars that you would see on workaday trains rather than the top of the line equipment that tended to be reserved for the flagship trains.

Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?

Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”

@Kyle Pax Express posted:

Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?

Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”

This thread discussion is all about Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger equipment, i.e. generally 21" long cars. The "postwar" cars you are asking about would all be Lionel non-scale pieces, generally referred to as "Madison Cars".

@Hot Water posted:

This thread discussion is all about Sunset/3rd Rail/Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger equipment, i.e. generally 21" long cars. The "postwar" cars you are asking about would all be Lionel non-scale pieces, generally referred to as "Madison Cars".

Did you look at the golden gate websight? There is a “postwar” coach offering in many road names.

@Kyle Pax Express posted:

Can someone please tell me more about the “Postwar” Heavyweight Passenger cars?

Kyle - A Fellow “Rail-Nerd”

They are modernized heavyweight cars. Round roof & modified windows. I believe they will have 4 wheel or 6 wheel trucks per the prototype

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Did you look at the golden gate websight? There is a “postwar” coach offering in many road names.

Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.

@Hot Water posted:

Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.

I have a lot of their scale plastic & aluminum cars too and this is not the first time Golden gate depot has used the term postwar. Meaning a scale replica of a train car made or modernized post WWII. You remember the pre and postwar Broadway limited offering?

If you’re referring to Lionel’s postwar products, yes it’s a completely different product. And I’m only referring to what’s on the golden gate depot websight so maybe relax & enjoy the thread…..

@Hot Water posted:

Sorry but, there is NOTHING "postwar" about Golden Gate Depot SCALE heavyweight passenger cars! I must have had a dozen or more of their SCALE passenger cars, over the years.

Yes postwar is referring to a scale model of Pullman built heavyweight cars as they appeared in the postwar years after they had been converted to sealed windows with air conditioning.

The top car is what GGD is referring to as a prewar car with the clerestory roof and small windows, while the car on bottom is a modernized "postwar" car with the rounded roof to accommodate air conditioning ducts and to better match streamlined equipment as well as large picture windows. Both cars were built in the 19teens but the green car would've been modernized in the 30s or 40s.

NOTE:  pictures removed due to possible copyright infringement per the OGR TOS.

MOPAC and NdeM Sleepers

There were some posts about the NdeM and Scott added them and then he added the NdeM Alco engines. I love it.

One thing I have found is that there is a wealth of NdeM sleepers and Mopac Sleepers used in the St. Louis to Mexico City run. I'm hoping to add whatever limit Scott puts on sleepers. There are some great Spanish road names for the City of Mexico, Aztec Eagle trains.

@Greg from Texas posted:

MOPAC and NdeM Sleepers

There were some posts about the NdeM and Scott added them and then he added the NdeM Alco engines. I love it.

One thing I have found is that there is a wealth of NdeM sleepers and Mopac Sleepers used in the St. Louis to Mexico City run. I'm hoping to add whatever limit Scott puts on sleepers. There are some great Spanish road names for the City of Mexico, Aztec Eagle trains.

Were you aware Scott has done NdeM F3s (2runs) and a NdeM 10-6 as an “extra”in the GGD Texas Eagle offering ???  The MP Budd with 6 wheel trucks ran on the Aztec - was also available as an “extra”.  This 10-6 will reprise in Jenks when those cars are done. (Scott has stated they will be offered) A NdeM 10-5 is likely too.
Check out the “GGD Missouri Pacific   Eagles …. “ thread and you’ll find NdeM bits here and there in the thread.
Be aware the only heavyweight cars GGD are doing are those with existing tooling. If you have NdeM pix to contribute, please post links to them. If you have some good published references, those are also appreciated.

Cheers 😉

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...6#184297498767049366

Hey Greg, Yes, I have the extras from the Texas Eagle offering.

I emailed Scott and told him I would share all the MOPAC and NdeM pictures and stats I have when he is ready. I know there will be MOPAC, but, I know he can only do so many sleepers and there were dozens of sleepers used on the runs from St. Louis and then NdeMs were added from the NdeM. Right now I have 32 heavyweights reserved between the T&P, MOPAC, NdeM, and S.P. But I will order more MOPAC & NdeM Sleepers if more than 4 of each are offered.

I missed out on the F3s. I moved up to GGD and 3rd rail in 2020.

Also trying to increase interest and reservations on the forum.

Greg, Dallas TX