I have an older Legacy VisionLine NYC Hudson, 6-11218. It has been in storage for several years, no longer have the module for the Cab 2 controller and can't recall the previously assigned engine ID#. Made several attempts to start from scratch to assign a new engine ID#. However, there is no response of a light or whistle to verify that the loco has accepted the ID# after pressing the "Set" button on the controller. FWIW: the loco ran fine before going into storage. Any and all suggestions to get this Hudson back into revenue service will be greatly appreciated!
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Did you slide the switch from run to PGM ?….( program mode )
Pat
Yes.
Maybe a stretch, but is it possible the volume pot on the tender is turned down? If you put the tender on the track alone and power up. Do you hear idle steam sounds?
Yes, the idle steam sounds did turn on, so did the headlight, but no response to trigger the whistle, bell or from the locomotive to move forward.
Train Brake slider all the way up ?
Do you customarily assign the first two digits of the road number as the engine number ?
Don't know if this thread will help or not, but it discusses using engine id 99.
I think the eng 99 feature is a "later" Legacy feature. Not offered on this model.
You say it was in storage AL. So are you trying this on a new/temporary layout? Do you have the command base wire connected to the outer rail?
Brake slider is at minus setting. My layout is permanent, run several Legacy locos on it. This is an early Lagacy loco, but I will investigate the "Eng 99" link suggested by Greg M.
I have a VL Challenger 6-11210, which came out at same time as yours. That happened to me. The infrared little glass on tender and engine came out of line with engine draw bar . Lined up and put back and bam, worked perfectly. Not sure if that’s your problem, but check it. Ps it was actually tipped up at wrong angle. Good luck.
When you put the engine & tender on your command track, and power it up, does the sounds start to play instantly?..ie; the start up sounds. In command mode, whether in RUN or PGM when you power up the track, the engine & tender should sit there silent until you address it. If the sounds continuously come on when you power up in command, there’s no IR signal making it to the tender……that might indicate an issue with the radio board……it’s not a 100% a full proof diagnostics, but it’s a start ….
Pat
Well it was four or five months ago, but I don’t believe there was sound because the infrared wasn’t lined up with tender. But I can’t remember for sure. Did you check the little infrared glass. My had popped out of its little hollow barrel/ pipe if you will.
Now that I think of it I do remember, like you said No whistle to let me know that it was programmed.
It seems that the infrared communication was an issue. I dusted both lenses with compressed air and finally got the engine to re-program to an assigned engine ID. But now another issue has surfaced: retarded behavior! It takes up to 30 seconds before the engine will respond to a command from the Cab2 controller: speed, direction, whistle, bell, etc. All of my other Legacy locos work perfectly on this loop of my layout with the same Cab2 controller. So, we need to move on to the next diagnosis...any suggestions will be appreciated.
This probably is not the issue seeing no mention of taking the engine shell off. But I’ll throw it out there. I had a 10 Wheeler purchased on the auction site. Quick tested fine. The shell came off and the lighting and antenna were unplugged for cosmetic changes. Upon reassembly. Was totally unresponsive. It did come back to life for a brief moment. Lionel sells the driver board and receiver as one. The receiver just plugs in place. The pins are sort of on the fragile side. Found some broken ones. The pins are replaceable. Apparently when I just pushed down on the board to make sure it was seated was just enough to bring it to life. But didn’t last long. When I unplugged the receiver you could see the issue.
@VegasTrains posted:It seems that the infrared communication was an issue. I dusted both lenses with compressed air and finally got the engine to re-program to an assigned engine ID. But now another issue has surfaced: retarded behavior! It takes up to 30 seconds before the engine will respond to a command from the Cab2 controller: speed, direction, whistle, bell, etc. All of my other Legacy locos work perfectly on this loop of my layout with the same Cab2 controller. So, we need to move on to the next diagnosis...any suggestions will be appreciated.
Did you go into info and make everything legacy ?..ie; highlighting the legacy functions, like the speed steps, sounds, etc.?…..
Pat
@VegasTrains posted:It seems that the infrared communication was an issue. I dusted both lenses with compressed air and finally got the engine to re-program to an assigned engine ID. But now another issue has surfaced: retarded behavior! It takes up to 30 seconds before the engine will respond to a command from the Cab2 controller: speed, direction, whistle, bell, etc. All of my other Legacy locos work perfectly on this loop of my layout with the same Cab2 controller. So, we need to move on to the next diagnosis...any suggestions will be appreciated.
Technically, you don’t even need the tender to program the engine……the tender only has sounds, coupler, and B/U light. The main boards are in the engine. So simply dusting the I/R wasn’t any kind of cure,…..as Dave suggests, it may be time for a look around under the hood at the radio board,….
Pat
Understood...the symptoms seem to point at problems in the engine to receive the Cab2 commnands. More work to be done!
Ok, good luck I hope you get it straightened out.
This might be considered a dumb question, but needs to be asked. This loco is 11 or 12 years old...is it possible that the on-board Legacy receiver doesn't understand the commands from my Legacy 1.6 controller?
@VegasTrains posted:This might be considered a dumb question, but needs to be asked. This loco is 11 or 12 years old...is it possible that the on-board Legacy receiver doesn't understand the commands from my Legacy 1.6 controller?
Nope, ….it should take your commands as fast as you enter them,….
Pat
Al,
Is the headlight flickering?
If so, your Hudson isn't receiving a good radio signal from outside, either coming out of your command base, travelling through the tracks, or because your command base isn't grounded properly to the outlet it's plugged into.
Or, inside your Hudson if the antenna connection within it has worked loose.
Try hovering your hand over it while you're trying to program it. This may increase the signal sufficiently to get it to work temporarily. If it's presently flickering look for the headlight to stop when you do this.
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Al,
Is the headlight flickering?
If so, your Hudson isn't receiving a good radio signal from outside, either coming out of your command base, travelling through the tracks, or because your command base isn't grounded properly to the outlet it's plugged into.
Or, inside your Hudson if the antenna connection within it has worked loose.
Try hovering your hand over it while you're trying to program it. This may increase the signal sufficiently to get it to work temporarily. If it's presently flickering look for the headlight to stop when you do this.
Mike
Mike, he’s only having an issue with this one locomotive, he’s already said he’s run other locomotives on this particular loop of track with out issues……that should rule out base issues/track issues ……no?
Pat
I removed the shell on a 10 Wheeler for re lettering. Didn’t do anything crazy on disassembly. Test ran for 3 ft. Before I started. Was totally dead after putting it back together. Ran fine before I started. Even though Lionel only sells the board complete. The receiver does un plug. Found all the pins broke on one side. Just some slight pressure got it fired up but it was short lived. They are sort of fragile compared to an older R2LC board. Yours should have a similar setup. Looks like at some point you are going to have to remove the shell. Worth checking even though your Loco. hasn’t been worked on.
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@harmonyards posted:Mike, he’s only having an issue with this one locomotive, he’s already said he’s run other locomotives on this particular loop of track with out issues……that should rule out base issues/track issues ……no?
Pat
Pat,
Agreed, I did catch that, but ...
You know that we rarely get the whole picture the first time through.
It's often helpful to ask previously-asked questions a second time or a third time as necessary, each time a slightly different way, until the OP has their "A-Ha" moment.
Mike
Mike's suggestion helped with this issue. I hovered the Cab2 hand controller about 4" above the locomotive...it responded to all command signals: whistle, bell, speed, etc. Looks like the loco's antenna or receiver board is the culprit.
@VegasTrains posted:Mike's suggestion helped with this issue. I hovered the Cab2 hand controller about 4" above the locomotive...it responded to all command signals: whistle, bell, speed, etc. Looks like the loco's antenna or receiver board is the culprit.
Just to clarify, the CAB-2 does not communicate with the engine, it only communicates with the base. However holding your hands over the engine is a known way to check for weak signal. Ron Reagan covered that in a video a number of years back. Of course that video opened up a ton of debate itself about whether Mr R was right, or he had ate too many jellybellys.
@VegasTrains Hi Dad! Thanks to all chiming in on this thread and helping getting this Hudson up and running correctly once again. I've moved away from Lionel Legacy but kept this steamer as it's a personal favorite. As mentioned, stored for several years and ran great before storage approximately 2 years ago.
@cbojanower is right, the Cab-2 and physically holding it over the engine only increases signal, same effect your hand would. It's the base with antenna transmitting commands to engine. My layout when this thing last ran had my legacy base positioned above the train board. I'm wondering if your base that's physically positioned below your layout is giving weak signal to this particular engine? When you input commands and had delayed feedback on commands that may have occurred when the engine was on the far side of layout then picked up signal when back physically by the base?
Let's test the theory and get the base up in direct physical communication above layout. Perhaps newer Legacy models have a stronger antenna in them than my Hudson? -Eric
@Esliv1 posted:I'm wondering if your base that's physically positioned below your layout is giving weak signal to this particular engine? When you input commands and had delayed feedback on commands that may have occurred when the engine was on the far side of layout then picked up signal when back physically by the base?
Let's test the theory and get the base up in direct physical communication above layout. Perhaps newer Legacy models have a stronger antenna in them than my Hudson? -Eric
Placement of the base regarding track signal doesn't matter because the base signal goes through the command base wire to the outer rails of the track.
The VL steamer as with most Lionel steamers uses the handrails as the antenna. For this reason steamers seldom have signal issues.
However, when they do. One of the first places to check is the handrail itself. Making sure it isn't touching/grounding on the shell.
If that's not the case. Then remove the boiler and check the connection to the handrail inside the shell.
Any update on this thread yet?
Next step is an internal diagnosis to be done later this month. Results will be shared after the problem is resolved.