Continuing Saga of Lionel's poor new truck design

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm not seeing what the big fuss is about.  FWIW, the new UP "flat wheel" sound boxcar I just picked up has diecast trucks, hidden uncouplers that are removable, and the Kadee mounting blocks.  The couplers seem to work well, they couple very easily, and don't come open, at least in a 20 minute test run with a pair of track cleaning cars behind them to provide a drawbar load.  At least this truck design, to my way of thinking, isn't really all that bad.

I think the buzz about spring loading of the trucks on rolling stock is a lot of ado about nothing.  The springs don't do a think unless you put about three pounds of lead in the cars, they're just cosmetic.  As far as the fixed coupler, that hasn't been an issue with the vast majority of rolling stock I own that has fixed couplers, exactly what is the big deal with those?

As always something to complain about. Fixed couplers have been around for years with no issues at all. The springs as you said for looks alone, and BTW I had one where the springs on one side came out. Know idea were they went but the car now lilted....great. We need to remember what we say in G scale " if it looks good at 4 feet than it is good". Kids would have no memory of the other trucks so that is just talk as well, if it works it works....they are just toys.

@0-Gauge CJ posted:

For what it's worth, I just got the NYC Pacemaker Freight set in from pre-order. I went back through a few pages of this thread and didn't see anything mentioned about this set specifically (my apologies if it was already discussed), so I thought I'd mention it here.

I pre-ordered the set last year before I was aware of the truck issues, so I was a little worried about what I would find when I opened the box. Good news is that upon checking the trucks, they do have articulation and the hidden uncoupling tabs. Tested coupling them with a few different freight cars - easily coupled to an old die-cast K-Line gondola. Required a little more push to connect to an MTH boxcar. Had some trouble coupling to a die-cast Atlas hopper but discovered the couplers on those are already very stiff, so probably not a great test for those.

Put the MTH and Pacemaker boxcar on an 036 031 curve and hand-pushed them around, the Pacemaker car is able to stay on the track.

Without actually running them behind a loco, I think Lionel might have gotten these right again, apologies if this consensus was already reached, but wanted to share just in case.

Well, that's some excellent news. Thanks for posting.

Pat

@DavidR posted:

That you for your comment, Rick. On the strength of your comment and recommendation, I just ordered on of the Vision PS-1 cars. This is the first "new" Lionel car I've ordered since the milk car fiasco. Maybe Lionel will start equipping their rolling stock with these new trucks.

I just received the Vision PS-1 car and the new trucks/couplers are great. I was able to couple easily to anything on my layout, and the articulation is great. Once again, I hope Lionel decides to incorporate these on all of their rolling stock moving forward. It would also be great if they would offer these as replacements for the non-functional trucks for the milk cares and plug door refrigerator cars.

@Keith L posted:

Back on page 7 of this "little" thread, Stu Rankin said the following about replacement couplers from Lionel:

NOT LionelLLCMember SUPPORTING MEMBER

Parts ETA is April 2022.

Stu

I bought a three car set of the "pumpkin orange" Milwaukee road express milk cars.

How do I go about getting on some sort of a list for replacement couplers?

@SIRT posted:

OLD NEWS THREAD

In all fairness to Lionel, the trucks have been re-designed on both, the old Std. O and O cars.

It’s unfortunate that many of us had to endure the problematic transition truck design on a few cars.

The newest O coupler has a square bump out as shown and the newer cars act much better.

Perhaps one should update the thread title as well? Let’s move on now.

"on a few cars"?  When this topic was started it was Lionel's poor new truck design, and that has not changed.  These trucks are worthless, and I have several cars sitting here with these trucks that are also worthless.  The issue of this topic is to continue to press Lionel to fix their screwup.  If the word new in the topic helps keep this topic alive, then I want to see it stay in.

I'd like to know when we will getting a replacement, and like Roy, how do you get on the list for replacements?  I don't want to wind up with another defective product like MTH's PRR P5a Boxcar shell that will not be replaced because I "did not get on list" soon enough.

@RoyBoy posted:

I bought a three car set of the "pumpkin orange" Milwaukee road express milk cars.

How do I go about getting on some sort of a list for replacement couplers?

As far as I know, you can't.  There's no list to get on.   Well, I guess the best way is to keep in touch with whomever you bought those cars from.  They should notify you when parts are available.

Stu

@NOT LionelLLC posted:

As far as I know, you can't.  There's no list to get on.   Well, I guess the best way is to keep in touch with whomever you bought those cars from.  They should notify you when parts are available.

Stu

I will be holding my breath.

Guys,

Just for clarification on this issue. 

Is there a consensus that the newer couplers with the "bump" on the front are OK?

Thanks,

Mannyrock

The two cars I have purchased recently have the "bump" coupler and they work great with my older equipment. They are articulated, which surly helps with my O-36 curves and turn outs. I would have hoped Lionel would offer replacements for the cars I purchased with the poor Vietnamese couplers, or at least offer them at a reasonable price.

@Rider Sandman posted:

This is not directed to anyone in particular, but exploring “who” designed the new trucks is an exercise in speculation and will likely only serve to get this thread nuked. I’m only one opinion, but I don’t believe “who” even matters - just get them fixed.

On a pleasant note, I received my Vision PS-1 MoPac Eagle boxcar. The dummy coupler (remember one is an electro coupler) has a hidden tab and couples very easily to other cars from various vintages.  It is also articulated. It still has plastic bolsters and side frames, but it at least functions much better that the Friendship cars. Hopefully, this is a sign of what’s to come.  

Rider:

    And I posted it only as an open end question. I wasn't looking for actual names, titles, etc. To come up with such poorly designed trucks/couplers could not have been the result of one lone engineer having a bad day. The design of a new truck/coupler had to come from a committee or work group. So why the problems weren't discovered by SOMEONE within that committee or work group before they went into production is totally baffling.

  Now it sounds like things are finally getting better and so that is good news!

  John

What has happened with this, if anything? I still have three cars with the bad couplers, but have not heard anything from Lionel about replacements.

I modified the couplers on one of my cars so it runs on my layout. Running it on the club layout, however, caused the car to derail and take another car off the track with it.

Part of the coupling issue to other types of couplers such as the good old lionel hidden tab design they did away with and some atlas and mth couplers is the inside curvature of the nuckle on this new design. It some times does not allow the other coupler to close properly leading to a false couple. This new design when used with the same car with the same coupler design works extremely well. Its when coupling to different couplers is the issue. This is true of the hidden or thumtack versions.

The little part inside the nuckle that makes the nuckle close is not going back in all the way to properly close the coupler. This is real apparent when hooking to the old hidden tab design couplers that when light oil or graphite was applied to reduce friction of the moving parts worked so smooth. If the shape of the nuckle more closely matched all other nuckles I think this would solve the issue altogether.

Whether lionel would retool this part is suspect. They should as it would sell more cars and thus make a more profitable sales line for these cars. Some have stated here they stoped buying lionel cars because of the new truck design.

Just saw the bump coupler. While I do not have any of these. Maybe the bump helps with the other car closing properly. Would love to get a car with one and test this theory out. My previous post was in regards to the last design.

@Lionelzwl2012 posted:

.... Some have stated here they stopped buying lionel cars because of the new truck design.

I have stopped buying new Lionel freight specifically because of this.  I have the Friendship Train cars and the trucks are terrible.  Need to do a forum search to see if anyone has found a good replacement truck.

Is there a list of specific Lionel rolling stock to avoid, or time frame of production to avoid?

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Is there a list of specific Lionel rolling stock to avoid, or time frame of production to avoid?

Mark:

Yes - the challenges with the Lionel trucks and couplers commenced with the freight cars produced from the 2017 catalog. Without rehashing the entire history, which you can review in this and other OGR topics, there were many reasons provided by current and former Lionel employees for making the changes to the trucks and couplers, which diminished both the quality and appearance of them, but none of them made a lot of sense. In fairness, Lionel has made some improvements to the trucks and couplers in the last couple of years, such as getting rid of the unacceptable thumb-tack couplers, but they are still not as good as they were pre-2017.

Pat

Any word on whether or not Lionel is going to replace the worthless 2016-19 trucks on my Friendship Train cars and other cars from that period?  I would consider buying new trucks if I knew they would fit just so I can run these cars in my train.

Ron,

Good luck. Even thought some time back, someone said that Lionel would make good, I don't see that happening as it's been several years now. I was all set to buy the complete set of cars, was glad I bought only one first. At that point, I gave up on buying any more.

RAY

Yes.

I bought  three of those dumb pumpkin colored Milwaukee Road milk cars. Even after modifying the coupler on one car, it still flips the following car off the track. And this is on wide radius Gargraves curves on the club layout.

There's always hope, I suppose.

@Ray of sunshine posted:

Ron,

Good luck. Even thought some time back, someone said that Lionel would make good, I don't see that happening as it's been several years now. I was all set to buy the complete set of cars, was glad I bought only one first. At that point, I gave up on buying any more.

RAY

Unfortunately, I have all five.  I agree the likelihood of Lionel making good is nil, but one can hope. 

At this point I need recommendations for an acceptable replacement truck.  I sold off the cars that I don't need/want, so I really don't have any donors.

Marty E, posted on the Forum a worth watching you tube video this morning on an HO manufacture, Scale Trains. I ended up watching the entire 20 minutes of it. These things happen in other scales to. But this company takes care of it. Seeing the lengths they went to make things correct for their customers was a amazing. To the point of offering a replacement engine totally free and letting you keep the one you purchased. Just goes to show when you have competition for hobby dollars. The customer is the winner.

The whole Friendship Train experience from Lionel has been a mixed bag, to put it politely. The good: the passenger cars are awesome and the paint schemes on the PS-1 boxcars are fantastic. The bad: the boxcar trucks and couplers are complete junk. No sugar coating it. They are irredeemably poor designs - feels like cost cutting gone way bad.

The final kick to the mangos is that it appears Lionel has now abandoned the line and we’re all stuck with incomplete sets. Assuming Lionel would’ve fixed the truck/coupler problem, it’s a bummer they quit the line. But, maybe it’s a blessing if the trucks and couplers would’ve just been more of the previous design. I have a ton of PS-1 boxcars I bought at good prices through the years and would’ve cannabinolized trucks from them for the first run Friendship cars to make it all work.

All and all, I was excited about the Friendship set (and the promised future releases) when it was first announced, but have been mostly disappointed since the rubber hit the road with so many problems.

I got stuck with two of the milk cars from the same vintage as a result of a long forgotten preorder (these were the cars that were 3 years in the making after a failed attempt to make them somewhere in Eastern Europe or wherever - I don’t remember).  I didn’t even take them out of the box. I priced them at a $30 per car loss and dragged them to a couple shows - no takers so far.

The only new Lionel car I’ve bought since then was the Vision PS-1 (also on preorder before I got the other stuff). It’s nice, but I don’t know if other non-Vision cars got the fix. I quit buying any more Lionel cars out of frustration.  Maybe one day I’ll be surprised when a fix is announced for the Friendship cars, but I’m definitely not holding my breath.

It still remains a mystery to me how the trucks went from best in class to complete junk - all in the name of progress.

A direct quote from Lionel's web site:

"Our mission is to develop, manufacture, market and service the best electric toy trains and accessories in the world within a competitive environment. Lead the toy train industry with innovative engineering, flawless manufacturing and superior customer service."

"......FLAWLESS MANUFACTURING AND SUPERIOR CUSTOMER SERVICE."

RAY

I forgot to mention, I love Lionel and want nothing more for them to be successful. But the issue with DEFECTIVE couplers has me disappointed.

RAY

@Ray of sunshine posted:

A direct quote from Lionel's web site:

"Our mission is to develop, manufacture, market and service the best electric toy trains and accessories in the world within a competitive environment. Lead the toy train industry with innovative engineering, flawless manufacturing and superior customer service."

"......FLAWLESS MANUFACTURING AND SUPERIOR CUSTOMER SERVICE."

RAY

Mission not accomplished.

Replacement couplers have been available from Lionel. Here’s a good video on how to install them: https://youtu.be/yTMTmwBIuGU

Great video. I’ll get the replacements and give it a try. However, I remain skeptical. My issue was the Friendship trucks derail constantly when coupled to other cars without articulated couplers. Since the Friendship trucks won’t articulate with one another, they get pulled off the rails. The new design doesn’t seem to address this, but it’s worth a shot, especially since Eric said they helped in the video.

One final thought: even swapped out, the video just highlights how much it’s still a completely cheapened plastic junk design compared to the truck design it replaced.  

I got burned on 3 8k tank cars and one PRR Milk car before I realized what was going on. I haven't bought any new Lionel rolling stock since then and not sure if I will.

@Keith L posted:

Replacement couplers have been available from Lionel. Here’s a good video on how to install them: https://youtu.be/yTMTmwBIuGU

Nice video, but one thing is missing.

WHAT IS THE PART NUMBER FOR THE NEW COUPLERS???

I second it, what's the part number?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I second it, what's the part number?

Since this was my video, thought I’d jump in 😁

You have to reach out to Lionel customer service to get them. They’re not available on the parts site. The number listed on my paperwork is CS-48-2026750-550-p. But that part isn’t available on the parts site for purchase, and who knows if that’s even the right number or just a code they shipped them under.

@Rider Sandman posted:

One final thought: even swapped out, the video just highlights how much it’s still a completely cheapened plastic junk design compared to the truck design it replaced.  

IMO they’re still nowhere near as good as the original milk car trucks. It’s worth the effort to get them operable, but they really only do just that. I will say though I haven’t had any derailments (other than the one shown) since shooting that video.

I think I'm up to four of these newer milk cars.  Received a couple for Christmas.  Still rather convert to kadee.  This just a cheap patch job by Lionel.  No thankyou.