Yes, sort of. MTH and Lionel (MLW FPA-2 and FPB-4) in passenger service today. Not much mixing beyond that for passenger service because the passenger units are usually tethered. I run analog so getting two engines (if powered) to run together for freight is hit or miss.DSC05811

Daniel

Attachments

Photos (1)

I have not, because I know very little about real trains, and thought they only lashed up similar locomotives.

Now I know real trains mix up their locomotives, so I will occasionally do that on my layout. Arnold

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

scale rail posted:

Arnold, the Milwaukee Road even ran f-3 B units with GP-9s. If it had enough horse power, they ran it. Don

I've seen pictures and videos of PRR/PC F7's sandwiching GP9 B units.  Like you said, if it had the HP, they ran it.  Heck, sometimes if it just ran they would run it.

Tom

In the early days of diesel locomotives, a standard for building Multiple Unit Consists (notice I did NOT say "lashup") had not yet been developed. In the early diesel years of the 40s and 50s, each manufacturer essentially did his own thing when it came to MU-ing units together. Some did it electrically, some used air. Consequently it was unusual to see different makes MU'd in the same consist in that era because some were not compatible with others.

However, by the mid-50s a standard was developed that was adopted by ALL the diesel locomotive manufacturers. That standard is still in use today. This new standard for building Multiple Unit Consists removed all the barriers that prevented a Baldwin from being MU'd with an EMD, or an Alco with an FM, etc.

With those MU barriers gone, the Power Desk no longer cared about the makes and models of the units on the ready track because it didn't matter. The desk assigned power to trains based on where the units were spotted on the ready track and how many horsepower was needed on the train they were going to pull. That's it. The Power Desk did not care whether a Geep was a lead unit with a couple of F-units in trail, or whether the consist was a mix of EMD, Alco and GE power. All they were concerned about was how easy it would be to get the required units MU'd together and on the train.

The attached PDF file is an article reprint from OGR that explains how Multiple Unit Consisting is done today.

Rich Melvin

Attachments

I usually run three diesels of varying manufacturers, models, and railroads. I’ve run CSX, UP, and NS all in one consist with about 30 cars. In O scale, I’ve run a Reading GP30, Conrail C630, and an NS SD60E.

Modeling Enola PA in miniature

——————————————————

https://www.instagram.com/ns6770fan_productions/

“It’s a good thing to let another generation know what a steam locomotive is.” — Southern Railway Vice President-Law W. Graham Claytor Jr.

I had a friend who modeled NYC.    At some point early in the century, the NYC Historical Society held their annual convention in our city and he had his layout open for tours.     He modeled an NYC branch south of here, and a connection with the NYC mainline.    

His mainline power at the time was often an EMD F-unit, and an ALCO FA and this represented early 50s.   One of the visitors was a retired NYC employee who told him that was inaccurate.    He told my friend that NYC did not mix units from mfgs until after their rebuilds at about 15 years.    The reason he gave was stated above, incompatible MU connections.    So at the time he modeled when those units would be less than 15 years old, the NYC did not mix mfg.      The visitor told him that when the units went through a rebuild after about 15 years, the MU connections were standardized.

Bill Webb posted:

Thanks Rich. Interesting information. I wondered where the lash-up terminology came from.

Have the 27 pin cables changed over the years or have they kept the same pin configuration?

No changes over the years.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 

Rich Melvin

Darn, I'm modeling the wrong era (late 1940s).  From my books, it looks like the Pennsy only ran same types together.

Bill Webb posted:

Thanks Rich. Interesting information. I wondered where the lash-up terminology came from.

Have the 27 pin cables changed over the years or have they kept the same pin configuration?

Lash-Up actually has been around a while, but became common here when MTH and Lionel used it to describe the process of connecting two or more command engines together to run as a single unit with the handheld.  People started using it to describe running multiple diesel engines together in a train instead of as a MU consist.  Using Lash-Up instead of MU consist in this case drives some folks here crazy  DO NOT every use it on any of the scale forums.

Ron

 

TCA, TTOS, NCT, LCCA, PRRT&HS

 

Volunteers don't get paid, not because they are worthless, but because they are priceless!  Author Sherry Anderson

"Darn, I'm modeling the wrong era (late 1940s).  From my books, it looks like the Pennsy only ran same types together."

Of course, that did not stop RR's from double-heading diesel and steam (that was not MU'ing, or even Lashing) on the same train. If you really want to mix'em up. Plenty of photos of that. It tended to be a helper/pusher situation, but not always.

Right up to today I see different types of locomotives and even different road names in MU configurations.  Tons of pictures if you look with the same thing in evidence.  From right here on the forum...

When I was a boy, the Family Lines had just organized. Everyday I watched the colorful mix of acquired locos pulling every type of freight car that would roll. My favorites were the Chessie System GPs and SDs. I don’t know why seeing the caboose was always so exciting. Most of those colors were eventually replaced with the blue and gray of CSX. I’ve noticed colorful locomotives coming back. I often see UP, CN, and many small RR locos pulling along with CSX. I still see GPs and SDs together.I often see the big GE locos too, but I sure miss the caboose. That flashing light at the end just isn’t he same. 

American by birth. Southern by the grace of God.  

CoolHand posted:

When I was a boy, the Family Lines had just organized. Everyday I watched the colorful mix of acquired locos pulling every type of freight car that would roll. My favorites were the Chessie System GPs and SDs. I don’t know why seeing the caboose was always so exciting. Most of those colors were eventually replaced with the blue and gray of CSX. I’ve noticed colorful locomotives coming back. I often see UP, CN, and many small RR locos pulling along with CSX. I still see GPs and SDs together.I often see the big GE locos too, but I sure miss the caboose. That flashing light at the end just isn’t he same. 

I agree about the caboose. They should re-institute the caboose on all freight trains for us Forum members because we are doing so much to promote real and model railroading. Wouldn't it be fun to drink coffee with our fellow Forum members and see beautiful scenery passing by while riding in a caboose during freight train runs? Arnold

In my little world, I leave this troubled world behind.

I watched a film of Chicago where the trains seemed to have a wide array of diesel models mixed into each. I believe even a very wide number of road names too?

 I wish I could remember what film it was, I'll go look thru my DVR list. I do remember thinking how cool it was to see all the different engines and colors.

I run all types together on my RR. I usually group by road name or what's available (running good) in the power pool. Unless the grandkids are over, then it's what they pick.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

Rich Melvin posted:

In the early days of diesel locomotives, a standard for building Multiple Unit Consists (notice I did NOT say "lashup") had not yet been developed. In the early diesel years of the 40s and 50s, each manufacturer essentially did his own thing when it came to MU-ing units together. Some did it electrically, some used air. Consequently it was unusual to see different makes MU'd in the same consist in that era because some were not compatible with others.

However, by the mid-50s a standard was developed that was adopted by ALL the diesel locomotive manufacturers. That standard is still in use today. This new standard for building Multiple Unit Consists removed all the barriers that prevented a Baldwin from being MU'd with an EMD, or an Alco with an FM, etc.

With those MU barriers gone, the Power Desk no longer cared about the makes and models of the units on the ready track because it didn't matter. The desk assigned power to trains based on where the units were spotted on the ready track and how many horsepower was needed on the train they were going to pull. That's it. The Power Desk did not care whether a Geep was a lead unit with a couple of F-units in trail, or whether the consist was a mix of EMD, Alco and GE power. All they were concerned about was how easy it would be to get the required units MU'd together and on the train.

The attached PDF file is an article reprint from OGR that explains how Multiple Unit Consisting is done today.

I didn't know you ran diesels Rich! 

We never got to talk much and I never looked up your history.

" on Sour mash and cheap wine " ??

Why go back to DCC when I have DCS!

Joe, I started on the P&LE as a brakeman in 1967. I worked there for a couple of years before getting laid off due to a slow-down in business.  I had a long break in service when I went in the Army and worked in the TV industry for many years. I got back into railroading in the early 90s with the Ohio Central. I was promoted to Superintendent of Operations of the Youngstown Division in 2003 and worked there until the railroad was sold in 2008.

I've run a LOT of diesels! 

Rich Melvin

Found this information about Borrowed power or Run-through power from some contributors to Trains Magazine. Pretty interesting. The result is that on many trains there is a variety of different types of engines, and they come from a variety of different railroads. It's all about horsepower.

"Borrowing locomotives happens all the time for various reasons. How the railroads keep track is horsepower hours. If say NS borrows a UP SD40-2 (@3000HP) for a day then NS will owe UP 72,000 horsepower hours. Now NS can pay UP back by sending them a 6000hp unit for 12 hours or 2 3000hp units for 24 hours, either way the debt will be canceled. That is just one example.

"Each railroad (usually the power desk) keeps track of each other railroads horsepower hour balance. When a railroad gets a lot of horsepower hours in debt with another they will usually send the owed railroad a bunch of units to pay of the debt. This means the owed railraod can pretty much use the units as they see fit. That could mean the foreign unit may end up at the farthest points of the owed railroad."

______________

"There are other reasons for a foreign unit running on another railroad's tracks. Long term lease is one reason, where a railroad that has excess power will lease units to a railroad that is power short. Then there is also pooling, where two railroads that jointly run a train over both railroads tracks will pool units for that train. An example being the inside gateway (GN(BN) Vancouver to Bieber & WP(UP) Bieber to Stockton) where GN(BN) and WP pooled power.

"There are also detours, like when one railroads line gets washed out and they have to detour on anothers route. Unless there are signal requirements (like cab signals) they usually use the detouring roads power and crew with a pilot from the hosting railroad (unless it's a long detour over multiple crew districts. "

__________________

"There are many reasons locos leave there home turf. Run through agreements would be one. Railroad A has a train that is delivered by railroad B so they each contribute to a pool of power and where the train is handed off they don't have to change power whitch consumes time and effort. Then there is the case where one railroad may be short of power and might borrow power from another railroad. There are also trackage rights situations where railroad A has rights over B but while As trains are on B's tracks its railroad A's power on the point.

"When the power is on another railroads turf it is kept track of by horsepower hours. The horsepower of the unit is multiplied by the hours its on the foreign road. Each railroad has an account with each other railroad. Occasionaly an account will get out of balance and the oweing railroad will turn over locomotives to pay back horsepower hours and bring the account back in balance.

"This is kept track of by computer at each railroad. The bigger railroads have "power desks" where the locomotives are managed. Not only managed for hours they owe or are owed but to maintain the balance of power within there own systems. These managers have to plan days ahead of time to make shure there is enough power in the places it's needed."

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×