Early Piggyback project (1940-1957) late steam early diesel & some of the very first 85-89' cars in 1957-1959!

Photo copyrights apply all used for reference

Custom decal work

There is almost a complete absence of western private carriers in decal form. I do a great deal of custom artwork for Key and DVP; its a natural to grab some reference and produce some western private carriers for the train.

Rio Grande Motorway Inc.
Ringsby Truck Lines of Denver
DC Denver Chicago Express

I use CS from Adobe all vector art and print on an ALPS or Kinkos where I don't need white or opacity.

Photo copyrights apply all used for reference

Nice Erik!  Whose the Mfg. on the undecorated trailers. They don't look like plastic.

 

Butch

       
       


Thanks butch!

Some of the vans are ancient 1/48 Revell Bekins kits from 1955. These are beautiful vans. Fruehauf stainless steel that were common from 1952-through the 1960's.  The others I had custom built from a pro builder on the east coast. Both are resin and plastic and if painted correctly do NOT look like plastic.  I can't stress enough medium has very little to do with a models quality. Brass, resin, ABS, plastic, in so many ways plastics are far better at recreating detail. Brass has limits. To date nobody has produced a brass model of a early 1940's or 1950's tractor trailer in any of the sort of O scales 1/43-1/50. These Revell vans are in my opinion the best and built with modern methods and improvements are second to none.

Erik i know you can do much better than this. box them up and i'll send you a ups pickup order so that you can try again and i'm sure the second time around "you'll be up for the task". seriously this will make a great train i'm jealous. 

Lloks like you are having a blast with these. They look great!

       
       


Oh yeah! They are really interesting to me. And very rarely do you see them done right in O scale. When you see piggyback it's almost always 1960's and later with those horrendous 89' flat cars. Not my interest at all.

       
       


Send me your address boss!


No- I am flattered thanks =)

Big Grande Baldwin Challenger moving north on the Joint Line out of Pueblo with a cut of TOFC for Denver from KC!

Absolutely BEAUTIFUL Erik.  Just beautiful. 

 

Every once in a while I jump on Hankstruckpictures.com and reminisce.  

 

Another worthwhile resource is Mike Terebecki's The (Vanishing) Trucking Pioneers series of books.   I own and love them all...

Fantastic !

Thanks man!


       

Mr. Lindgren,

I've yet to see anyone who could do work on the level as you. Your attention to detail is almost unbelievable. I noticed a Santa Fe TOFC. Are there any plans to do a, Southern Pacific "Golden Pig" TOFC? If so, I can hardly wait!

 

Keep up the great work. You've been blessed with a rare talent.

WOW thanks so much. I really appreciate the kind support! Goodness knows I need it. ;-)




       

That is a great computer program for making fonts and decals.

 

 

The G in the Rio Grande artwork stops too soon, is has to arc over the rest of the way, like in the photos.

 

Andrew

Rio Grande Motorway Inc. a must for a late steam era Rio Grande fan.

In an effort trying to locate reference material I have had some luck. Photo copyrights apply used for reference.

In this photo taken by Jackson Thode published in Trains magazine December 1941 we can see the use of Fruehauf vans. Note the van on the left- a roof carrier on the top.  Interesting. Obviously this pre-dates the super strict ICC trucking regulation.
This photo was taken what appears to be Highway 6 just outside Golden. Neat Mack B-73 and a steel 34' van tandam axel.


I've found several different styles RGM used. Back in this era all lettering was hand painted from a drawing. Most of these master sign painters used some creative license. Most of these graphics exhibit subtle changes from one to another despite being the "same" the nature of hand lettering. In this case the Shadow lettering with the "speed font" is seen. I patterned my decals after this with a slight adjustment from the reference I found on Hanks Truck Pictures. In the later years a boxed design with white letters was used. My era 1949-1955 it would more likely to see the long stretched out "speed style font" lettering and red stripe seen in this photo.
Beginning with the computer I superimpoze the photo under my vector art. I beginning by tracing the best as possible. It is after all a miniature and some errors can be snuck by the viewer when applied to the model.
Hanks Truck site has this neat set created by a collector I can't recall his name and or find them again. The trouble with Google. Ugh. It shows the slight differences in the "speed letter G". I added this with some creative license.
The victims awaiting removal of the REA diamonds shall be ideal subjects for the ultimate Rio Grande Motorway van load! These Lionel 1/48 scale vans are just fabulous; simply marvelous. A fine scale model by any measure.

Ready for the printer
In these photos courtesy of the Denver Public Library (c)Otto Perry the first generation logo can be seen. It's tempting to use these and still it is difficult to locate exactly when these designs evolved. I assume this was the earliest logo for RGM. It is similar to the "toilet seat" DRGW logo.
Ancient - interesting for sure

TimDude is wondering-- "why would anyone want to spend that much money on a model that doesn't smoke?!" ;-)

Coming up next open top trailers and tarps. This will be interesting. It's too cool to pass up.

my dad worked for Eastern Express in Metuchen, NJ as a dispatcher

Erik, the canvas tops could be modeled right over the hard roof. who's to know except you.

 

Bob, where did you live when your father worked at Eastern? I've lived in Metuchen my entire life.

       
       


I am planning on doing styrene humps on a piece of styrene that exactly matches the size of the roof footprint. Airplane silk or silk will do nicely saturated with Matte Medium. And after it dries trim the shape and install the tack strip and ropes.

I am checking out MTH's pup trailers. They also are near Lionel quality. I ordered one and I am eagerly awaiting the model for inspection. The flat car looks terrible however.

;-)

They look beautiful and add that variety we need so desperately in early era piggyback. I think these are Trailmobil vans roughly late 40's vintage.

 

Speaking of early piggyback "variety" the models in the photos I attached could be some further options for consideration. Dinky produced this Mclean very common van and the Corgi 1/50 Mack combo is really the nicest early tractor trailer set produced in 1/50.

I refuse to bring those over-sized for 1/43 New Ray tractor trailers into this discussion. I got into it with a "trad-3 railer" over in the O-27 forum about these. He stated they look great on a 42' flat car. A 34' van hanging over the edges on a 42' flat. Never mind the 5' tall tires. I love these beautiful models however like the beautiful stuff in 1/64 they are unusable a no issue. Sadly

Excellent thread.  Great modeling and I love the vintage truck pics. (What can I say? I like old trucks!)

 

My next layout (HO) is going to be set in the early 60s, so much of this information is relevant.

 

Oh... and here's a pic of an '83 Freightshaker I owned for a spell a few years ago.  In this pic its earning a living helping a friend haul his track hoe to a job site. (I told 'ya I like old trucks!)

 

 

Excellent area of interest.  Nice train!

 

One of the nicest piggyback paint schemes that I have yet to see done, was the Missouri Pacific Eagle trailer scheme.  This picture does not do it justice.  I haven't been able to find a color picture yet.  The blue was NOT as dark as the B&W photo would infer.  Colors were Blue, White, Yellow stripes, red emblem, and that top area in the front of the trailer was silver.  Colorful, just like Colorado!

 

 

@ Erik;

Where do you get the train display cases? I am looking for such cases for O scale. Thx!

I took your suggestion Andrew- what do you think now? I took Fred Gruin's decals out of the equation and went direct from the photo. I believe either way would work. But most of the Grande I see the G is brought clear around.

Beautiful B Model.  Out here in the east it wouldn't have aluminum Budds but manure spreader wheels.

 

I'm just a hop skip and a jump from the Plant #4 where most of those were made.

 

IIRC I overheard you in (Chicago??) a few years ago standing just inside the entrance and  talking about your antique car interest and saying "I love fussy old junk"? 

 

Me too. That's why I love old B models.  Nothing like the bark of a Mack 673 Thermodyne... and real trucks have two sticks.

 

THIS is the place to see old bulldogs:

 

http://www.antiquetruckclubofa...macungie_photos.html

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...s/72157624165648533/

 

BTW the actual show has probably 75-100 B models in attendance... along with everything from Chain Drive AC's to Walter Snow Fighters that you'd see in the Rockies.

The later Ringsby design is also on the list.

Looking at the Fred Gruin reference I find more overlooked issues. The use of the font set from the earlier non-rocket design is erroneous. I adjusted this to the photos of the "Rocket" design.

I still believe once the model is decorated nobody will ever be the wiser that it may not be absolutely perfect. Also looking at the other reference photos you can see slight variation from one design to the next. A typical issue with custom hand lettered paneling used in the good ole' days! No vinyl cutters and plotters back then. Also note these are separately applied panels on a trailer with fluting or ribbing. Neat effect worth doing as Trinkle Trains told me this afternoon.

This a great replica for sure. Custom built of resin by a master truck builder from New England he made all of his own molds. The Mack's both these and the 1940's era are a must for over the road trucks on the layout. I'm begging him to build me a Kenworth of Peterbuilt 1950's bullnose. ;-)


       
       

Bullnose KWs or Petes would be nice... but nothing says Rockies like a Ringsby or PIE rig with a drom box!

Further work on Ringsby "Rocket"

The tail fire is great! I am sure there was more refinement being likely hand painted and working from black and white it is difficult to tell just how far the detail went on this graphic.

Great looking trailers, Eric but what about the multiple tracks. It looks as though you cound run another gauge on some of the tracks.

 

Thanks

 

Dick

Photo Courtesy: Robert Meyer

Robert sent me photos of his really cool US Hobbies Max Gray PRR F series purpose built flat. These are late 50's but really really awesome. I used to have several and sold them bummer. For my train they are a little too modern.

A great transition piece between the 52' era to the 89' TTX!

Thanks for sharing Robert!!

Jeff MacDonald reminded me and I am not sure why I overlooked the Berkshire Valley resin trailer kits. I've built many for clients over the years. Most of them are same prototype as the Lionel trailers however in longer versions. Worth a look

Some further reference on DRGW piggyback.
These early flats were home built from the 61200-61399 series wood sheath box cars.
Courtesy: (c) Prospector RGM&HS note the trailers are Safeway Stores Inc.

Thanks Robert Meyer for bringing this to the discussion.

Reference material for local or intermediate location loading.

A note about Missouri Pacific Piggyback trailers.

 

Most of the 3 rail manufacturers get the Missouri Pacific Loewy paint scheme wrong, as do others.  The Key Model imports Alco PA's and E units had the correct colors.  Those are the same colors that the Piggyback trailers pictured on the last page should be, a great scheme.

I don't think any of the 3rail manufacturers have done a MOP trailer yet have they?


       

This model is just marvelous. Came today from a guy back east. I've already 2 railed the trucks. Couplers are next.



MTH "pup trailers" are fantastic! The flat car is a bummer. I still wonder why these trailers are equal in every way to the Lionel trailers while the flat car seems like an existing product forced to work with some smoke and mirrors. Truly it seems the MTH trailers act is if they could have been a 3rd variation on Lionel's project. Once MTH got a hold of it they moved the fifth wheel pin to the very front of the trailer so it would work on the chunk plastic they call a fifth wheel hook up. Really designed for longer trailers; I suspect re-used like the flat car from another project. Look I am grateful I think the MTH "pup trailers" are just magnificent too bad I need to buy the kit and kabootle to obtain them. So these are a minimum of $25 a trailer after spending $50+ on the car set.

I don't think any of the 3rail manufacturers have done a MOP trailer yet have they?

You're right Erik.  It's a another typical Mopac oversight.  I've spent two hours on the internet and can't find another picture of a trailer in the Eagle paint scheme.  There are pictures of later trailers with the buzz saw.  

 

I don't know if prototype that Lionel does (like the Berkshire Valley) lasted past the mid 60's.  Probably too short by then.  I remember seeing one abandoned (around 1965) in the middle of nowhere, wondering why it was there.  It was so good looking, I still remember it.

 

I'm now thinking that a picture may be unavailable.   

A few updates-

All materials copyrights apply. Used for reference only.

Included are some quick (inaccurate drawing of trailers) to represent the designs in place.

I believe they will do fine for my needs.

The MTH Aerovans are very nice. In place on the nice Lionel car.

I can get started weathering l!

Guys,

I saw this train shaping up yesterday personally!

Erik gave me the grand tour and I gotta tell you guys that

this is gonna be one heck of a train at the March COSM show!

Thanks for the in-depth review of your beautiful train Erik! : )

Rick

Well thanks Rick-

Some minor testing today of part of the consist. Slow progress I've been rather busy.

Erik,

I'm in, "The Peanut Gallery", enjoying your fantastic work. IMHO Please, don't spoil all of your long hours of hard work. MY GOSH! It's so very, very nice. Oh Well!, Go Ahead.

 

God Bless,

"Pappy"

Finally a trip to FedEx Kinkos!

I am very impressed with Microscale's Laser Printer Trim Film.

       
       


You are very kind "happy"-

I think the rest of the guys are bored out of their minds of my little project.

Hey John I like them

Found this information on another site. Unfortunately PRR service started outside my self-imposed timeline:

Timeline of TOFC services, 1950s-1970s

I agree -- the trailers are nice, but the flats are in serious need of improvement. I have one apart and masked so I can paint the decks (it's on a shelf at the club in the workshop), but I've been thinking of just sanding the deck down and finishing it with wood instead.

Great stuff!

Thanks for sharing.


       

Agree- the flat went on eBay. ;-)


       

 

 

 

 

 

 

I made these units up to go along with the  text about CP Piggyback's first run to the maritime provinces in 1957  for a display at the Calgary Model train meeting

The droplets of Decal Set are still present. ;-)

Erik,

Just discovered your project this morning. Wow!!!!!

 

Ron

Thanks for the great thread Erik.

 

I'm not a freight guy, but I do like the piggy back cars/history and especially the early one like you are discussing.

 

One questions for you or anyone else reading this thread.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the Chicago Great Western (C&NW-UP) was first here in the states to try the concept with a flat car (no line mentioned in the article) hauling two CHICAGO-DUBUQUE MOTOR TRANSPORTATION COMPANY trailers.

 

I can not find any information on this test/trial and was wondering if: 1; is this information correct? and 2: are there any images of Chicago-Dubuque trailers anyway on line? If so, I would really like to try a project like to are showing above.

 

Thanks.

 

Charlie

A little better light. It's time for me to get back to doing studio shots again. I'm lazy!? That's it.

Still need to modify The flats. Removal of the chocks when not in use or a wood deck addition. I will work on this later. I am planning on doing several with jacks and chains. John Sethian where did you get your parts? Or did you fabricate?

Thanks Ron and Charlie.

I'm not sure about M&StL; however as a kid back in Iowa I recall a fellow in Mason City, Clark Probst had the neatest piggyback train. It was early like this and he was an avid M&StL guy. Everybody was back there. If you weren't M&StL you were into CNW or CRIP. ;-)

Rio Grande Motorway

Neat - I always liked the RGM in the early 50's.

Eclectic mix-

Burlington
Union Pacific
Pennsylvania
Ringsby
Willig
Private (unmarked except for license)

Variety was the key back in the early years.

Erik,

I'm truly enjoying your thread. Your work is unbelievable. I realize that you're doing almost entirely east coast carriers on your TOFC train. Have you ever come across any of the, "blue-eyed indian" which was, Navajo Truck Lines, and of course the one I ask about earlier, Southern Pacific Railroad's Golden Pig Service? Perhaps these are a little too modern for your train.

Woha boy!

Only thing eastern is PRR; the CP and the CN are both.

I'm not eastern at all.

Ringsby is Denver!

Rio Grande Motorway well that is a no brainier there. ;-)





       

Erik,

You got me there. LOL! I drove 17 Western States for many years(too many) I stand corrected. I suffered a brain freeze. Yes, I recognize many of the Roadnames. There's quite a few that bring back memories. I remember when Ringsby got shut down(what a mess). I just got homesick for the road after all these years. I thought of the ones not around any more, that's a sad part. Ones like TransCon, PIE, ONC and System 99 to name a few. I'll go back to my corner now. I'm just an old phart living in my memories for a while. Sorry to disturb you. 

Working out some of the tarps and covers for the open trailers.

This was a very common sight on these early trains from my research. It is difficult to find a early 1950's era trailer on flat car consist without open top trailers.

First victim was my Weaver Santa Fe 1955 post scheme 34' van. I love the look especially with the wipe out method weathering. Cabling will follow with EZ Line.

One more model worth noting is the First Gear 1956 Ford F800 truck and trailer set. Simply a wonderful model in 1:50! Marvelous.. I'm impressed! Werner of Omaha and many other private carriers shipped these open top trailers with produce loads to market. A little bright and shiny; after some weathering I think it will turn heads!



I think Lionel used this tooling on thier truck and trailer sets of recent manufacture.


Copyright: (C) photo Lionel Corporation used for reference only.

       
       


It's ok man!

Santa Fe all the way to New York- on a through sleeper. ;-)

I will plan on picking up a Espee set soon. I had a fabulously done US Hobbies pair of trailers and a PRR F series US Hobbies flat. Sold them not thinking. Oh well- they really were a little late for my taste.

Those trailers looked great before the tarp covers - they are fantastic now - really sets them off.  Nice work Erik!

For those not willing to build or scratch a tarp covered trailer the First Gear trailer looks very good.

Scratch built is indeed difficult , getting the cross members to form properly was my biggest problem and as you can see the center pole is not quite centered all along .

 

This unit was made from a broken or separated K-line plastic trailer, the sides are  plasticized carton upon which I glued  wooden  uprights then then attached metal cross bars.   Sewing the tarp was perhaps done with a bit too thick thread ( especially for close up photos)   the tarp was simply a cloth materiel saturated in  artistic paint and left to set on the trailer poles.

 

Our Canadian stake and racks were a bit different from the American soft top, and or the tarp trailer    as the side racks were a good 6 feet in height. This allowed  the carrier to ship pretty well any thing  that one could put in a van . When the units were empty the racks poles and tarps were taken off  so another trailer  could be set on top and at times a third flatbed would be added , then the set  would be  piggybacked to where it had originated  saving the trucking company some rail fees.

 

I remember as a young lad , when it was slow in the office , to go out and help built the racks for several of these  units as  Speedway  began making their own flat bed trailers as it was cheaper than buying from Freauhauf  or Trailmobile   the tarps came ready made from Canning,  the undercarriage from other scrapped units, the rest was  made in house ... those were the good old days let me assure you

 

 

 

I love it Robert! Nice job



       

I have been experimenting with several different types of media for the canvas covers. Actual canvas is too thick and out of scale in my opinion. I tried airplane silk with some luck. Paper and finally a scrap of fabric when painted with gesso gives an amazing similar appearance to canvas only smaller. It's a good fit and after painting and weathering a bit its a good fit.

Photo copyright (c) trailer train TTX, The Railway Prototype Encyclopedia
Used without permission only for reference.

My one and only Pennsylvania car- the PS-4 is still in the weathering it and in progress

I don't suppose the side door trailers had open tops. Hmmmm - it's just on there to see what it looks like.

I know this photo is late 50's but it illustrates the state of the equipment and colors used on the canvas tops. PRR was amazing.


I need to shoot these outside - the photos in this thread are not studio quality. Snap shots of my messy work bench..

Erik,

 

Changing the subject, I still love the work you and I (a little) did on the John Deere tractor loaded flat car.

 

ChipR

Making a heck of a mess

I like leaving the Lionel - ha! No not really I just forgot to paint over it .. ;-P

TimDude excellent suggestion-

Airplane and military builders use an Elmers mix with heavy tissue to make canvas. I am going to try using a different base other than the fabric. I like the fabric it works well in some respect to the photos of the 1:1. I am still experimenting hence my lack of tie down ropes.

Thank you Tim

Erik you are making me sick looking at this trailer train you are making. i'm in the process of building bench work for the 2 rail layout and every time i look at this thread you got me wanting to work on a similar project. so i don't know if i should hate you or like you.

the Pennsy is my favorite road and what you have done to that trailer "sucks" so send it to me and i will throw it away for you!

       
       


Nah- you don't want my junk- although I may end up pitching it in the end.
Glad your enjoying the project

Thank you

(C) copyright Stan Holtz used for reference only (weathering and soiled patterns study)

Cool Bob!

He's following along too. He ordered some of the decals I generated and will be making a sister set out in on the western slope!

Bob you should see your decals in a few days.

Thanks to the grandmaster Lee Turner he sent these photos to me of some of his early piggyback cars. Wow! Thanks Lee!!


Photo copyright and model by: (C) Lee Turner

Erik,

You Betch! I see my, "Blue Eyed Indian" Yesssssss!

 

Thank you!, Sir, Thank you!

Who is making custom decals?

I am interested in custom decals.

 

Buzz

       
       


Hi Buzz!

I am making decals and can make more of them. As long as the reference is good I can recreate just about art. My limitation is white or opacity; in this case I use Highball Graphics. He is an excellent printer and producer of decals.

       
       



I have 4 or 5 of these Navajo Weaver TOFC cars.

I am glad your happy with them. I've had these for a long time.

Now if we could just get Weaver to do a 75ft TOFC, for the 35ft trailers. It would save us some space on the rr. I could also do the 1956 Pennsy calander at Duncannon. A note about a refer on another post there is a drawing of the old freight station at Duncannon with a Yuengling car in backround. I have one it was done for the Perry County HS.

Deck the Halls with balls of Pastel dust and Acrylic washes. I mean .. Never mind now- my eyes have gone crooked.

This is a good thread Erik!

Which railroads ran piggyback/TOFC behind steam? Certainly Canadian Pacific and Canadian National. My "maybes" would be PRR, SP, CB&Q, IC, GTW, B&O.  Any others? Any documentation for the "maybe" roads?  Maybe a seperate thread?

       
       


Obviously Rio Grande did and the Rock Island.

Ahmmm, not so sure about those roads. Mainline Rio Grande steam ended in 1956......L131 2-8-8-2's in helper service out of Tabernash in 1956. Front end road steam power ended in 1955. Was Rio Grande an operator of tofcee then?  Rock Island mainline steam ended in late 1952........pre-piggyback, I believe?  I could be wrong......but that's why I asked for some documentation. Would love to be proven wrong!!

AAAAAUUUHHHMMMM did you read the dates on the documents and other contributions by OGR Forum members that have been posted?

And yes THEY DID use steam on piggybacks service.



       

Whatever

I have a lot more but I'm not going to waste my time photographing it and posting it.

THANKS AGAIN REX!

"READ ME"





       

I have a photo in one of my books of a C&S 2-10-2 pulling TOFC.  I'll try to find it.

 

ChipR

Thanks to Bob Meyer for the material this morning.

I might scratch build one of these Fruehauf trailers with the roof rack and generate the artwork for this 1940-1953 logo. My train is roughly 1949-1953 era. I use both newly arrived F7's and FT's along with typical assigned Joint Line power the L-105's and 131's. Furthermore a myriad of power could be seen moving mixed local traffic.

These flats featured in the Prospector article were home built ex-wood box cars. Another scratch build opportunity awaits!

Some early piggyback action brought to us by The Prospector (c) photo copyrights are in effect.

Love this picture!

Amazing mix for sure!

Juxtapose Treasure by definition.

Piggyback/Steam
Piggyback/passenger
Narrow Gauge/Standard Gauge
Head End Business/Non traditional Head End


It's just a treat!

For sure Howard





       

This flat built by the Grande is sans steam lines. Dust, road grime and an unmarked private carrier van obviously a revenue car in service.


Shown here with steam lines. I wonder how many were built for head end service.

Work in progress- I am sort of doing 5-6 at the same time; and a few other things.

A little outside my era (1960's) but Bob Meyer felt this was worth sharing. It's pretty neat. He was a CNW employee at one time.

Overlooked Rex's contribution. Ooops.   So, I need not feel any twinge of guilt coupling my DRGW L105 to a freight containing a piggyback car or two! Or even my L95.

      Chip R - yes, I also have the publication with Colorado & Southern 2-10-2 #900 pulling a freight containing a single trailer piggyback car. Believe the photograph dated to 1958. And forgot about the L95 in Alamosa pulling the Colorado-New Mexico "Express" (!) with the early DRGW piggyback. The Robert richardson photo dates to 1947.

      Piggyback is neat and so is steam.......a great and legitimate combination!

Time is so important with perishable items.  The one thing I don't see with these TOFC models is the front mounted refrigeration unit.  

A fairly straight forward modification or Berkshire Valley's old resin kit. I am trying to keep my consist under 16 cars; mixed with other standard freight. The ideal Joint Line train.




       

Thank you for the correction. 

Mike CT