NYC Z-MAN posted:

Thanks SPFORD27! I also see that ERR at one time offered a simple in-line buffer to drive the CCM and a two wire IR. I don't see it listed on the 3rdrail order page.

CCM Serial Buffer

 

I asked for one when I ordered mine and was told the issue was resolved on the board now. It works in a simple set up (rail sounds only, or AC regulator only and two wire IR) but when I added in the AC regulator and smart smoke unit it killed the signal. 

John, I made one of your circuits up and it still won’t do both the IR and the CCM. I tried dropping the output resistance to 50 ohms with no success. Not sure if I want to drop it any lower, but I’m starting to think ERR is going to sell me the same thing you offered up and I may have the same results. I may just bite the bullet and order one with a buffered output. I recently installed the metal gears I’ve had for a couple years and discovered the flywheel magnet was cracked. It runs with the cracked magnet, but it’s erratic at slower speeds. Once I get this resolved, it will most likely get a chuff generator and super chuffer upgrade.

Jim Z "Torn between the New York Central and todays great railroads"!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

What do you have now?  The standard CC-M has buffered serial data on pin-2 of the 10-pin connector

I have what appears to be a diesel configuration. Pin 2 is stenciled for Duty. I tried tying that to the IR sensor and Railsounds fires up as soon as power is applied. I have two Kline steam engines with CCM’s which are also stenciled Duty but they have a wired tether as you well know and run just fine.

Jim Z "Torn between the New York Central and todays great railroads"!

NYC Z-MAN posted:
gunrunnerjohn posted:

What do you have now?  The standard CC-M has buffered serial data on pin-2 of the 10-pin connector

I have what appears to be a diesel configuration. Pin 2 is stenciled for Duty. I tried tying that to the IR sensor and Railsounds fires up as soon as power is applied. I have two Kline steam engines with CCM’s which are also stenciled Duty but they have a wired tether as you well know and run just fine.

There is only one PCB, the programming is all that differs.  They're all silkscreened with Duty on pin-2.

John, I have the generic CCM as I used in the K Line Berk.  I believe I will use this in my K Line Rock Island E8s AA units so they can maintain when pulling the CZ consist.  As for serial from the CCM, I will try the output from pin 1 to 24, and from 24 Motherboard to pin 2 on the CCM.  The manual for the CCM states it is good for multiple cans.  But, I am rethinking due to possible overloading.  I know the label states 6.0 amps, but the manual says it is good for 8.0 amps.

Great thread and input.

Jesse    TCAERR Cruise Commander M pins IDERR Cruise Commander MERR Cruise M connections

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That is not rating.  That is a version number.   Back in the day There was a difference between a harness configuration to support IR, versus the buffering issue we are addressing to solve Serial data or ?? Corruption.

Software on the R4LC along with other issues can effect this.

I have not read every detail in above post but here is the old IR adapter diagram.  G

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texastrain posted:

John, I have the generic CCM as I used in the K Line Berk.  I believe I will use this in my K Line Rock Island E8s AA units so they can maintain when pulling the CZ consist.  As for serial from the CCM, I will try the output from pin 1 to 24, and from 24 Motherboard to pin 2 on the CCM.  The manual for the CCM states it is good for multiple cans.  But, I am rethinking due to possible overloading.  I know the label states 6.0 amps, but the manual says it is good for 8.0 amps.

The K-Line E8 A-A is actually one I tried to add the CC-M to and power all four motors.  It doesn't work well, and I finally turned the trailing unit into a dummy to solve the poor speed control.  OTOH, I have done several other A-A configurations and the CC-M handled all four motors with no problem.  It seems somewhat hit or miss.  FWIW, Jon Z., the guy that designed this, suggested that four motors was too much for the CC-M, and I'd have poor speed control.  He was exactly right in this case.

gunrunnerjohn posted:
texastrain posted:

John, I have the generic CCM as I used in the K Line Berk.  I believe I will use this in my K Line Rock Island E8s AA units so they can maintain when pulling the CZ consist.  As for serial from the CCM, I will try the output from pin 1 to 24, and from 24 Motherboard to pin 2 on the CCM.  The manual for the CCM states it is good for multiple cans.  But, I am rethinking due to possible overloading.  I know the label states 6.0 amps, but the manual says it is good for 8.0 amps.

The K-Line E8 A-A is actually one I tried to add the CC-M to and power all four motors.  It doesn't work well, and I finally turned the trailing unit into a dummy to solve the poor speed control.  OTOH, I have done several other A-A configurations and the CC-M handled all four motors with no problem.  It seems somewhat hit or miss.  FWIW, Jon Z., the guy that designed this, suggested that four motors was too much for the CC-M, and I'd have poor speed control.  He was exactly right in this case.

Your experience here is why I went with a CCM in both engines. I was able to drive both with a single R2LC without additional buffering which might be a comment on how much current a IR LED draws.

To do this a 10 pin tether had to be used to handle the 3 (minimum) direction signals, serial data, lights and couplers.

The other option is two Cruise Commanders of course.

FWIW both engines running light draw less than 2 amps. Maybe the problem trying to drive 4 motors is it confuses the back EMF logic rather than current overload.

Pete

I believe that's exactly what happens Pete.  Since the two were running alone, I doubt they were taxing the current capability of the CC-M.  I was thinking along the same lines of simply adding another cruise module to the second locomotive.

Pete, John....   Thanks for the input.  To add a second CCM to the trailing A unit is the direction I had considered if 4 motors were too much.  A ten pin tether is no problem, still have a few to use, last I installed was in the PS1 4012 when I put in ERR TMCC/RS.  Yes, I checked the amperage and it was in neighborhood of 4A with 8 freight consist.  But pulling 11 to 13 CZ aluminum...……..?  Another consideration, what I did to a repaint PW F3 AA, both pulmor dual power, was to upgrade to ERR AC/DC Commander (would be DC in the 2nd E8) and with 2nd CCM run them as a train unit, or independent.  Do not have CC in F3s, not needed..... yet.  Driving both CCMs with a single R2LC.... hmmmmmmmm…...  

Jesse

Jesse, in addition to the ten pin tether I had to make a few custom harnesses including a 4 pin wye for the direction signals in the engine with the R2LC. I made mine from scratch crimping two wires into one pin but you could also just use two 4 pin harnesses and splice the wires together.

Pete

On the K Line multi motor E8 sets; have a six motor UP E8 set that sure would benefit from cruise; my question, how did K line manage to power six motor from one DCDR?  Did K Line use a more robust bridge on the DCDR?  Runs great on level track but the grades are runaways if not monitored. I need to cruise these units. Thanks; Falcon70 

Falcon70 posted:

On the K Line multi motor E8 sets; have a six motor UP E8 set that sure would benefit from cruise; my question, how did K line manage to power six motor from one DCDR?  Did K Line use a more robust bridge on the DCDR?  Runs great on level track but the grades are runaways if not monitored. I need to cruise these units. Thanks; Falcon70 

Current draw isn't additive when you add more units because its less work for each one. One engine may draw 1.5 amps but two engines may only draw 2 amps total. Three engines maybe 2.75.  It won't be a problem for the DCDR unless the train stalls. Then current draw will be well past its limit.

Pete

The 6-motored K-Lines never worked with either the CC-M or the full Cruise Commander for me, I tried three of them.  I ultimately sold all of them.

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