Fun with 90 degree crossings

Not sure which is more impressive: the layout or the boneless chicken farm. 

I like it.  Now let's see how many trains we can run on it at one time.....LOL

Here is a video I made of a similar arrangement... I had it set up on the carpet, didn't have room to make it permanent.  It is 2 rail tinplate for windup trains.

I agree with Farmer Bill, that is a sweet design...  Boneless chicken farming...  Ready to eat, just add radiation!

Love that video James, thank you for sharing.  My demented wife was hoping there was two trains and that they would crash...  I told her she NEVER gets to play with my trains!

Here is my contribution.

David, that's a cool video with the two trains! Also a great example of using Marx O27 and O34 curves for double track.

Lionel train action from a Cary Grant movie:  https://youtu.be/iawx33OHVRU?t=60

I agree, David, that's pretty cool.

this is a plan I made following photos of the famous Carlisle Finch criss-crossing track plan. Added a few switched at one end and did take out one inner loop. May just build it one day.

Timothy Sprague posted:

this is a plan I made following photos of the famous Carlisle Finch criss-crossing track plan...

Here is my O27 version of that Carlisle and Finch layout, made as small as possible without too much custom-cutting ...

Old photos used for a guide.

David Nissen posted:

Here is my contribution.

Now that's unique.  It can be an optical contusion.....LOL   Beyond the simple figure eight, I would venture to say that someone can come up with a more elaborate plan, incorporating the same idea.  In my mind, it makes , "Turn them on and watch them run" layouts more boring proof.  

It would make an excellent two-train layout in minimum space with cutoff tracks. Fits on a 36" x 79" door using O27 and O34 curves with Marx O34 switches. If both trains take the cutoff tracks at the same time, they both reverse direction without stopping. It would also work great with streetcars and an urban intersection at the center.

Ace,

Could you explain your comments in more detail. Any special wiring needed, isolating pins etc.  Can this layout be in with conventional engines or with command only? Where do the trains start from. do they start in different directions, what position do the switches start in? I understand what you are saying but I can't picture it. Thanks for any help you can give.

Ace, my head hurts trying to visualize two trains running on your layout design.  Just the addition of the four switch tracks can cause a head on collision if you're not paying attention.   Even with a keen eye, I don't see how trouble can be avoided.

Looks confusing but also looks to be a lot of fun to run. Talk about keeping the operator on his toes this certainly does it.

dennis32 posted:

Ace,

Could you explain your comments in more detail. Any special wiring needed, isolating pins etc.  Can this layout be in with conventional engines or with command only? Where do the trains start from. do they start in different directions, what position do the switches start in? I understand what you are saying but I can't picture it. Thanks for any help you can give.

Joeceleb posted:

Looks confusing but also looks to be a lot of fun to run. Talk about keeping the operator on his toes this certainly does it.

Watch Dan's video with the two trains in action and visualize cutoff tracks added on the sides. If both trains go into the opposite cutoff tracks at the same time, then revert to the figure-8 pattern in the opposite directions, they don't collide. Yes, the operator has to keep the trains timed just right, as in the video. But that makes it interesting, and a lot different from two trains orbiting on concentric non-intersecting ovals. An electronic person could figure out some circuitry to run the trains automatically without colliding.

As for control, conventional could work with phased transformers and block boundaries in the middle of the cutoff tracks, if both trains run at about the same speed. I think it would be about the most interesting two-train operation that you can fit on a 36" x 79" door, especially with buildings and scenery added to conceal portions of the track.

Thanks to Dan for posting the video !

Ace, Thanks for the response but I still don't understand. Are you saying if using command control engines, blocks could be eliminated? Dan's layout appears to be two independent loops. In your layout the trains would also need to start at opposite diagonal corners running in the opposite direction from each other? I see the reversing loops but I don't see how the engines turns itself around without manually throwing a switch. What am I missing?..

dennis32 posted:

Ace, Thanks for the response but I still don't understand. Are you saying if using command control engines, blocks could be eliminated?

I didn't say it, I thought that was obvious and already assumed.

Dan's layout appears to be two independent loops. In your layout the trains would also need to start at opposite diagonal corners running in the opposite direction from each other? I see the reversing loops but I don't see how the engines turns itself around without manually throwing a switch. What am I missing?..

Yeah you have to throw switches. That was implied when I described the routing. The trains need to be synchronized as shown in Dan's video.

Ah, ha !   I just got it !    Watching the video again, if both trains took the straight route at the same time, they would wind up chasing one another around the outer oval.    Yes, there is a way to ruin both trains on the layout with the four switch tracks and not have them collide !!   Yippee !!!

Dan, as I understand it the trains have to run in opposite directions. They would crash if running just on the outer oval I am going to build this layout to try and understand it! I might need to purchase additional 90 degree crossings. Ace has the ability to see this in his head. It is not obvious to me.

I think it would be like yours, except that they would both have to go through the cutoff at the same time.

David Nissen posted:

Here is my contribution.

David:

This is fantastic, very enjoyable.

For me, the best part is that I think I stared for the the first 1:00 of the 1:17 video just trying to figure out why they weren't colliding at the intersections.  Really, really fun.  

Thanks for sharing.

Steven J. Serenska

dennis32 posted:

Dan, as I understand it the trains have to run in opposite directions. They would crash if running just on the outer oval I am going to build this layout to try and understand it! I might need to purchase additional 90 degree crossings. Ace has the ability to see this in his head. It is not obvious to me.

I agree with having to have something tangible right in front of me to be able to understand it better.  That's a good idea to build the thing so you can get your head wrapped around it.  

It would be neat if someone could make an animation of the layout with the extra switch tracks.

This helps show how two trains could run non-stop with dual reversing cutoffs ...

That helps, Ace.  Thanks.

Fun with 90-degree crossings. Atlas track has good geometry for this, no cutting required.

This is getting interesting !

Wow. Looks like some fine experimenting here

I have a ton of Lionel tubular track. I will try this layout. I hope to get started before Ace comes up with a new layout! I need to figure out the size of the two outer figure eights. At least tubular track is easy to cut.  Is there a Lionel tubular curve between an 031 and 045? I can't go any bigger. Another possibility would be to make the middle loop with another brand of spare track using 036.

Dan is right, this gets more interesting daily.

dennis32 posted:

I have a ton of Lionel tubular track. I will try this layout ... Is there a Lionel tubular curve between an 031 and 045? I can't go any bigger ...

If you can use O27 curves and old Marx O34 curves, you only need to cut the crossings to fit and the curve spacing is just right - as in the video. I think some of the crossings can be easily modified to isolate the center rails on the separate routes, so you could have independent conventional speed control of each train.

Lionel O31 and O42 tubular track could work, although the track spacing would be rather wide. Tubular track is somewhat flexible so you can make the curves a bit wider or tighter. Another possibility, if you can find some old prewar American Flyer O-gauge O40 curves, that would work pretty good with O31.

Ace, I am going to try using fastrack for the middle loop, making the layout 031, 036, 045. I have enough fastrack on hand, except for one 90 degree crossover. Do you know if this will work?