I want to reserve this set but as mentioned above, the sleeper kitchen car need to go. It’s not a real car. Maybe the 14-4 sleeper can take its place.
Also need the run through 10-6 sleepers in PRR, L&N & A&WP. Lastly the observation car can also be offered in L&N as a separate sale car. With the L&N sleepers & an L&N obs plus a mixture of heavyweight cars one could make the L&N Gulf wind.
@sdmann Could you please offer any updates on this set?
@Will Ebbert posted:I'm really curious as to the status of this project. There hasn't been much talk about it so I worry about reservation numbers. I also think the consist listed on the GGD website is still wrong. Southern didn't have separate dining cars and kitchen cars.
Can't believe I wrote this post over a year ago, but yes I supplied this and more to @sdmann back then. I haven't followed up since then either. He's got a lot of projects in the fire, and this one may not have as much traction as the others, but hopefully it finds a way to get done. If the SAL Meteor got the MOQ, I'd be surprised if this project couldn't also be a winner, especially when you consider all of the possible add-on cars.
If this is still slow, I do think that it would probably help reservations if he updated the listing to a more correct consist and added options for the add-on's in other roads such as PRR, A&WP, WofA, and L&N. I think he might as well list the Royal Palm cars for the FEC and NYC. If you get the MOQ's for those cars too, then great.
If stretched for MOQ's to reach critical mass, he can also look to the recent popularity of GGD's Amtrak cars, and offer cars like the 10-6, the bag-mail, and the 52-seat coach in Amtrak with very little differences (black roof, Amtrak 4-digit numberboard on either end). There's also the the 44-seat diner (ex-AWP [but same tooling], Amtrak 8026 ). Crescent series cars survived SOU, but I don't think any ended up on Amtrak. I consider @GG1 4877 the Amtrak expert on here, so he can also probably chime in if this train's tooling could be used for anything else Amtrak. Maybe offer a 3 or 4-car Amtrak offering or just add-on's.
The tooling could also be used for a diner car that was sold to the Ringling Brothers if Scott wanted to toss a bone to the Circus modelers.
IMHO, in order to move forward and update the consist on the website, there are some decision points that have to be overcome:
Point 1 is harder to address. 2,3 and 4 would be easy IMHO.
To address these, what I would do is:
Just keep in mind anyone who has any brand (Weaver, MTH, Lionel, and 3rd Rail) of SOU green E8's and wants a set of accurate 21" cars behind them is going to want a post-1958 consist. Hopefully there is a way to make all parties happy with minimal cost increases and maximum reservations.
@Joe Congemi posted:Thanks for the all info, Dave. I’d also be interested to see Scott make some PRR, A&WP/WofA, and L&N add on cars. Speaking of the consist, how many cars would a prototypical Crescent have in the 1950’s?
Agreed.
Throughout its life, it varied on the season and whether or not it ran with more than 1 section. I have a lot more information from the 70's than I do earlier on. I'm not sure what the SRHA has on train consists. I glanced at my notes of maybe 100 consists that someone took the time to write down from the 70's and pulled some repetitive consist numbers out. These do not include motive power. (Which also has its own interesting patterns.)
1952 - 11
[giant gap for most of the 1950s and the 1960s, but it was the base train with additional coaches and 10-6 sleepers added for the most part. Mostly SOU, but some through-sleepers and head-end from other roads. I've seen photos of PRR B60 baggage, NYC/PC head-end cars in the consists.]
1970 - 8,9,12 (I see notes of either head-end or through-cars (10-6) for UP, SP, CBQ, NYC)
1971 - 8,9,12 (I see notes of either head-end or through-cars (10-6) for UP, SP, CBQ, NYC)
1972 - 6,7,8,10,11 (From this point onward, most trains have one AMTK 10-6, sometimes also a Coach car listed.)
1973 - 7,8,9
1974 - 9,10,11,12,13,16
1978 - 7,9,12,15
1979 - 8,10,13,14 (Some AMTK 6DB-LNG in these)
I would venture to say if you could only swing the 8-car core set you'd be covered. I think the sweet spot is if you can do 11 cars with a foreign head-end car added in (Weaver b60 baggage, or some NYC head-end). I'm aiming for 10-13 or so cars myself for the Crescent. The core set plus some add-ons can also help easily recreate the later versions of the Piedmont, Peach Queen, or Royal Palm trains as well.
@DaveJfr0 posted:Agreed.
Throughout its life, it varied on the season and whether or not it ran with more than 1 section. I have a lot more information from the 70's than I do earlier on. I'm not sure what the SRHA has on train consists. I glanced at my notes of maybe 100 consists that someone took the time to write down from the 70's and pulled some repetitive consist numbers out. These do not include motive power. (Which also has its own interesting patterns.)
1952 - 11
[giant gap for most of the 1950s and the 1960s, but it was the base train with additional coaches and 10-6 sleepers added for the most part. Mostly SOU, but some through-sleepers and head-end from other roads. I've seen photos of PRR B60 baggage, NYC/PC head-end cars in the consists.]
1970 - 8,9,12 (I see notes of either head-end or through-cars (10-6) for UP, SP, CBQ, NYC)
1971 - 8,9,12 (I see notes of either head-end or through-cars (10-6) for UP, SP, CBQ, NYC)
1972 - 6,7,8,10,11 (From this point onward, most trains have one AMTK 10-6, sometimes also a Coach car listed.)
1973 - 7,8,9
1974 - 9,10,11,12,13,16
1978 - 7,9,12,15
1979 - 8,10,13,14 (Some AMTK 6DB-LNG in these)
I would venture to say if you could only swing the 8-car core set you'd be covered. I think the sweet spot is if you can do 11 cars with a foreign head-end car added in (Weaver b60 baggage, or some NYC head-end). I'm aiming for 10-13 or so cars myself for the Crescent. The core set plus some add-ons can also help easily recreate the later versions of the Piedmont, Peach Queen, or Royal Palm trains as well.
Great info, thanks!
I’m probably going to do the base set plus an extra coach & PRR 10-6 sleeper if it’s made. Plus I have some PRR B60’s to add in.
I am sure glad I found this thread and it looks like it's been a minute since anyone has posted. Now I will be honest, my SOU passenger car knowledge is not on your guys' level by any means, but what era did the black roofs first make their appearance on the SOU passenger cars? If the black roofs came about after the 1950s, and the era GGD is attempting to model, then this will definitely be a moot question, but yes, I wanted to reach out to the community on this one.
I also wish to order the Crescent set but this project has been on hold for years. Wish Scott would (get off the fence). (His own words.) This is a big $$$ item when the engines are also needed. Tommy
Yeah I bought 4 Lionel E8s over 3 years ago now and they've been sitting with nothing to pull. @sdmann could we please get an update on these?
I would like to see the consist corrected. Sleeper/ kitchen…. There’s no such car.
@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:I would like to see the consist corrected. Sleeper/ kitchen…. There’s no such car.
If you don't mind. Send me an email to remind me. I have the plan book for this train and we can work to get it corrected.
Thanks!
@GG1 4877 posted:If you don't mind. Send me an email to remind me. I have the plan book for this train and we can work to get it corrected.
Thanks!
Sent…. I also put a plug in for run through 10-6 sleepers in PRR, L&N & A&WP
While I always liked the look of full scale passenger cars my space has been limited so I wasn't about to invest in something that can only sit on the shelf. However life has changed and now I'm packing up everything for a move to, well somewhere and one of the requirements for that somewhere is space to run the trains. My E8's look good and the Railking Southern sets are ok as something to pull but now with the possibility of a space with large curves I'm thinking of the 21" cars. The problem I don't want to make a reservation and then have to cancel if things don't work out since GGD is very clear what that would mean on any future reservations. I'm tempted but at the same time I'm getting older and with no updates for years, are these cars even worth considering. I'll keep watching for a notice of reservations closing, in the meantime I'm packing, packing, packing,.
-Mike in NC,
Hi Will, FYI I received an e-mail from Scott on 5/1/23 stating that the project has not started. He's aware of the lag time but gave no reason why the Crescent project is on the back burner and also under very low heat. Tommy
@thebeeman posted:Hi Will, FYI I received an e-mail from Scott on 5/1/23 stating that the project has not started. He's aware of the lag time but gave no reason why the Crescent project is on the back burner and also under very low heat. Tommy
Unfortunately, most likely not enough reservations is the reason for the back burner, and not nearly enough reservations is the reason for the very low heat. Scott/GGD only builds items that get enough reservations to meet a minimum threshold.
Thanks Jtrain, I'm well aware of Scott's business plan since I have about 25 plus GGD engines and pass. cars in house and an addition 5 units waiting to be started. Only 1 steam engine ordered has a start time line on it. I believe you may be preaching to the choir concerning Scott's reservation methods .
I'd really just like to know if this is something that looks promising or not. If it has ~80% of the needed reservations, we could probably stir up enough interest to push it across that threshold. If it has less than half, let's just call it a day and I'll sell my engines or look for Lionel cars and call it good enough. Either way, I'd just like to know.
@M J Breen posted:On the note of preorders though, I think that Sunset models needs to find a way to get word out more with their new announcements. i do think theres an appetite for high quality scale models and an enthusiasm through instagram and facebook posting and comments showing this. I feel thag Sunset’s Facebook page is not very active and when I see posts featuring Sunset or Golden Gate models -like the recent Chessie set arrival - many people post “I didn’t know they were making that” or “who is that”?? But I am not a manufacturer, or a marketing executive- Scott has many many people tell him often what he should make what will be a big hit - and it often is not or he knows better. I give him a great deal of credit for his well run Business in a niche market for so long - and I am not in any way saying that magazine print and forum advertisements are not effective as they are - I just feel that word doesn’t get around with his advertisements as well as it could.
This is spot on. The awareness even in the O scale hobby of GGD/3rd Rail is pretty low. The product in terms of scale fidelity is the best out there, and people would pay for it if they knew.
Sticking to the magazines and forums alone misses out on a significant segment of the hobby.
My original post was deleted due to my use of an image - so here it is again without that:
I too have the GGD Southern set on preorder and I also hope it gets made. I am wishful if Scott could also include or separate sell the Tavern Observation car that was used exclusively on the Tennessean. The train consists were identical except the Tennessean had that Tavern car added on.
On the note of preorders though, I think that Sunset models needs to find a way to get word out more with their new announcements. i do think theres an appetite for high quality scale models and an enthusiasm through instagram and facebook posting and comments showing this. I feel thag Sunset’s Facebook page is not very active and when I see posts featuring Sunset or Golden Gate models -like the recent Chessie set arrival - many people post “I didn’t know they were making that” or “who is that”?? But I am not a manufacturer, or a marketing executive- Scott has many many people tell him often what he should make what will be a big hit - and it often is not or he knows better. I give him a great deal of credit for his well run Business in a niche market for so long - and I am not in any way saying that magazine print and forum advertisements are not effective as they are - I just feel that word doesn’t get around with his advertisements as well as it could.
They used to go to all the train shows York, Chicago, etc, but found no one was interested in the stuff for available for reservations only how to fix issues with stuff they already had or to say "if you make X you'll sell a million of them, but I'm not interested in reserving any. If they had a catalog it would be 2 pages long and that flyer used to be all over the place but again got very little response for the effort and cost. So, what "other" ways are you speaking about. You can lead a horse to water but...
@rdunniii posted:They used to go to all the train shows York, Chicago, etc, but found no one was interested in the stuff for available for reservations only how to fix issues with stuff they already had or to say "if you make X you'll sell a million of them, but I'm not interested in reserving any. If they had a catalog it would be 2 pages long and that flyer used to be all over the place but again got very little response for the effort and cost. So, what "other" ways are you speaking about. You can lead a horse to water but...
I agree. The products are terrific in the detail included but the prices are relatively high, especially for the 3-rail market, which probably significantly limits the actual demand.
@rdunniii posted:They used to go to all the train shows York, Chicago, etc, but found no one was interested in the stuff for available for reservations only how to fix issues with stuff they already had or to say "if you make X you'll sell a million of them, but I'm not interested in reserving any. If they had a catalog it would be 2 pages long and that flyer used to be all over the place but again got very little response for the effort and cost. So, what "other" ways are you speaking about. You can lead a horse to water but...
There are thousands or tens of thousands of people in the hobby that are using social media almost exclusively to interact with others in the hobby. There are now multiple items that I've bought from Sunset/3rd Rail that have elicited great responses online that people just didn't know about. One of the most active people I know in the hobby is a huge Southern fan, and only this past March found out about the Crescent, and only then because I put him onto it.
If the goal is to maximize orders, then things like train shows matter, even if there is the annoyance 
of dealing with customers and potential customers. In sports, they say you're either getting better or worse, never staying the same. Likewise, in business, your customer base is either growing or shrinking, never remaining the same.
The customer base will never be Lionel big, price/detail/required curves all reduce the number of consumers for this product. However, not seeking to expand knowledge of the product to those moving to more scale offerings isn't the way to ensure that preorder minimums get met.
I agree. The company could do a better job of posting actual photos of the finished products on their website. Many people only see the announcement which has photos of either the real train or an HO brass model. I have dozens of GGD cars and still remember kicking myself for not ordering the NCL after seeing photos of the actual models. GGD products are much more detailed than the big manufacturers but is hard to know that unless you see their product.
@Will Ebbert posted:I agree. The company could do a better job of posting actual photos of the finished products on their website. Many people only see the announcement which has photos of either the real train or an HO brass model. I have dozens of GGD cars and still remember kicking myself for not ordering the NCL after seeing photos of the actual models. GGD products are much more detailed than the big manufacturers but is hard to know that unless you see their product.
Not sure I understand this.
The vast majority of Scott's projects are one-and-done runs. That's particularly true of complete GGD passenger trains. So, how would the finished product...if not yet made...be photographed and advertised to garner reservations for a future production run??
FI, there was (if my recollection is correct) only one run of the NCL. How would you have been able to see photos of these actual model cars...before they were made??
There are exceptions, of course. FI, a second run of the 1937 Santa Fe Super Chief is pending reservations. Photos of the first run's cars are part of that announcement. Even so, 3rd Rail seems to make subtle, and not-so-subtle changes to the product in subsequent models when warranted, requested, or financially feasible ...mechanicals, electronics, cosmetics, etc..
If there is any question that the end product from 3rd Rail/Sunset would exceed the fidelity and quality of their closest competitors, then the reticence of a buyer to make a commitment for the unique opportunity to have the best is not an advertising problem. Generally, people who seek the best will always pursue the best as a matter of priority.
For those who have an appreciation of Scott's projects through the years, I can't understand why they wouldn't be signed up to receive direct emails from him on 3rd Rail/GGD's latest news? What could be more timely and informative of present and future products??
Of course, that's just MHO...FWIW.
KD
I meant more so to encourage future reservations. If you look at the GGD website, there's not an archive showing past projects so somebody who is unfamiliar with the level of detail on their cars wouldn't understand the high prices. It would be really easy to have a tab on the site showing previous models produced to give an idea of what to expect on upcoming ones.
As for the emails, I have signed up for the newsletter several times over the years and never gotten one. Doesn't go to junk or anything, they just don't come to me.
@Will Ebbert posted:I agree. The company could do a better job of posting actual photos of the finished products on their website. Many people only see the announcement which has photos of either the real train or an HO brass model. I have dozens of GGD cars and still remember kicking myself for not ordering the NCL after seeing photos of the actual models. GGD products are much more detailed than the big manufacturers but is hard to know that unless you see their product.
That also used to be done, but no more. He posted pictures of something just completed but still in China and someone complained about this and that and the other details and more than 50% (I think it was close to 75%) of the reservation holders cancelled their reservations. AND, then many tried to reinstate their reservations after they arrived but they had already been sold to standbys and some others who had waited to see them first so they complained about that.
FYI 😜😜😜
The Southern Crescent Is Alive !!!
Work Begins !!! 👍👍👍
It is going into design. Watch the GGD webpage for consist Revisions and Additions !!!!! There will of course be Extra Southern cars But Also extras of Other Roads !!! 🙌🙌🙌
Understand ….. the Q is Amtrak (in production), B&O Capital Ltd, and then Southern Crescent.
Cheers 😉
Thanks for the update! This is great news indeed. I really thought this project might be dead since we went so long without an update. Can't wait!
@TrainBub posted:FYI 😜😜😜
The Southern Crescent Is Alive !!!
Work Begins !!! 👍👍👍It is going into design. Watch the GGD webpage for consist Revisions and Additions !!!!! There will of course be Extra Southern cars But Also extras of Other Roads !!! 🙌🙌🙌
Understand ….. the Q is Amtrak (in production), B&O Capital Ltd, and then Southern Crescent.
Cheers 😉
This is fantastic news! I’ll be reserving now that I see the consist is corrected, thanks for posting.
My suggestions for extras: 10-6 sleepers in PRR, Atlanta & West Point, L&N, Amtrak Phase I, Amtrak Phase III,
Coaches: PRR, L&N, Amtrak phase I
Diners, Amtrak phase I, III, V
observation: L&N (for the gulf wind)
there’s probably some I’m missing, goes to show there’s lots of possibilities. FYI, Amtrak guys are hungry for some heritage cars in the later paint schemes (III and above) This train set offers many Amtrak possibilities
Yes I'll definitely buy some add on cars for A&WP, W of A, and L&N. I'd be in for a Phase VI diner as well if possible @sdmann thanks for making this project happen!
Nice to see the Excitement !!! 😜 If anyone was sitting on the fence, this is a good time to hop off and join.
There’s quite a few roads that are Possible for Extras. I think that’s pretty cool as it allows one to begin building other road consists. I’m currently doing this with a NDM Aztec Eagle and B&O National Ltd.
You Know The Drill !!! 😉 Email Scott to let him know your preferences. When Scott posts those extras, confirm your preferences with reservations. Reservation Numbers Are Important to get it Done for the extras.
Cheers 😉
Another great add on car would be the Pullman green vista dome car that was used in the 70’s from Atlanta to New Orleans. Lionel made a plastic model of this car based on the Union Pacific dome coach tooling they have. I would love to see it correctly done in aluminum!
Just sent Scott an email. There were also cars in this order from Pullman Standard for Western Railway of Alabama, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, Louisville & Nashville, New York Central, Pennsylvania, and CNO&TP. I'd particularly like CNO&TP sleeper #3402 "Coosa River" as I grew up on the Coosa. Some cars were used on other trains besides the Crescent giving more options to eastern modelers.
@Will Ebbert posted:Just sent Scott an email. There were also cars in this order from Pullman Standard for Western Railway of Alabama, Atlanta & West Point, Florida East Coast, Louisville & Nashville, New York Central, Pennsylvania, and CNO&TP. I'd particularly like CNO&TP sleeper #3402 "Coosa River" as I grew up on the Coosa. Some cars were used on other trains besides the Crescent giving more options to eastern modelers.
Great point on the Coosa River! I've seen a lot of Atlanta and West Point on the Seaboard and ACL. Did they run on the Crescent?
I am definitely in. Running the North East Corridor in the mid 50's I'd love to have one of my GG1's pulling the Crescent.
I know this is sacrilege, but I plan on "gasps" painting the roofs black on my set to model the late 70s Crescent so I can run it with my green E8s. I know the observation car technically shouldn't be on the consist as a result, but we'll make an exception 😉
Thanks everyone for your incredible help to get this project off the ground. I'll be adding in the suggested Pool cars for those that want to reserve them. The main set and extra cars have been corrected on our web site.
Thanks to several of you, we have our data package ready to send to Design.
Onward!!!
@sdmann posted:Thanks everyone for your incredible help to get this project off the ground. I'll be adding in the suggested Pool cars for those that want to reserve them. The main set and extra cars have been corrected on our web site.
Thanks to several of you, we have our data package ready to send to Design.
Onward!!!
@sdmann Great news Scott! Question - does this include the tavern lounge car from the Tennessean?
this would allow the N&W modelers to have a proper consist for their Js to pull!
@M J Breen posted:@sdmann Great news Scott! Question - does this include the tavern lounge car from the Tennessean?
this would allow the N&W modelers to have a proper consist for their Js to pull!
This is a prewar pullman fluted car which would require a new extrusion so...
@rdunniii posted:This is a prewar pullman fluted car which would require a new extrusion so...
While you are correct that the Tennessean did have a couple of Pullman heavyweight sleepers that were paint silver and had fluting added, which were coupled on at Bristol, VA - that is NOT the car I am asking about.
The tavern lounge in my previous post was part of the new Pullman Standard fleet for the Tennessean and Southerner trains in 1941. The 2 trains had identical consists except the Tennessean had the tavern lounge allowing sleepers to be coupled on to the rear of the train, while the Southerner had a round end observation. I believe the crescent would get the same cars from Pullman standard after the war so this is a opportunity to model all 3 trains if the Tavern Lounge is made.
Ok so in addition to pool service cars I asked Scott for Amtrak diners & 10-6 sleepers in phase I, III, IV and for diners V. A friend of mine asked Scott for phase I coaches. I also asked for the green dome. Anybody want some amtrak heritage? I don’t want to take conversation away from the crescent so if a lot of you want amtrak cars we can start a new thread.
email Scott if you want amtrak heritage.
Fingers crossed.
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