Have you guys ever been to a train show and things got heated between a customer and a vendor?

Only when I was a kid.  An old grump tried to rip me off, till Gramps showed up and "asked him nicely" for his money back.

If my Gramps "asked nice" it was sarcasm that couldn't be missed. Or shouldn't have been if you had sense.

My last train show for almost forty years.

Adriatic posted:

Only when I was a kid.  An old grump tried to rip me off, till Gramps showed up and "asked him nicely" for his money back.

If my Gramps "asked nice" it was sarcasm that couldn't be missed. Or shouldn't have been if you had sense.

My last train show for almost forty years.

I bet you got your money back.Which is good.

Some shows just bring out the "vulture carp" buyers. There is one particular person that always appears at our local shows. I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. 

He will hover and hound the seller for a deal and become extremely irate if the seller does not drop his price.

If he does swaggle a deal he will immediately race home and put it on the bay for 3 or 5 times the price... (just look for the pink ruler)

A real low life... and detracts from the hobby.. 

A private one with an old fart seller at York. He had something I had been looking for but when I picked it up he went into hyper tension. He had no do not touch signs and I told him I won't buy what I can't look at. His reply was you can look but do not touch. I walked away. April York it was still on his table.

April York it was still on his table.

Did you find another?

Many years ago at a Greenberg show with a dealer named Mel Price, may God rest his soul, who insisted a bum engine we were returning was not his. My friend had purchased the item a week before at another show. If anybody knew this guy you know he get quit loud and nasty. Fortunately and wisely �� he maintained his cool and they worked it out ...

Another Greenberg show years ago:  A prospective customer was flipping tags over to see the prices when the seller suddenly went off on him with some of the filthiest language I've ever heard (and I'm an old Sailor with a terminal case of sailor mouth myself). The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left. On my second pass through the hall, the seller had packed and left.

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

I've gotten into it with sellers twice. Both times while showing a newbie the ropes sellers overheard what I was telling them and didn't like it.  You know the type - the ones at every show selling PS1 and MPC era stuff at the same prices as 20 years ago.

Of course, it was a dumb move on their part as instead of just the person I was with hearing, everyone in a 30 foot radius heard.

-Greg

Never really had a problem with a vendor but when I was selling some engines on the ogr board around 6 years ago.

The buyer of one of the engines was very happy with the engine and the deal. Now forward about 5 years.

I received an email from the guy who bought the engine and wanted to return the engine to me. He told me he was tired of the engine and wanted me to refund what he paid. Of course I said no. I then got a obscene email accusing me of being a thief and many other names. 

I told him I don't lease model engines. You bought it, now you own it. You had it for 5 years! 

I then blocked him. Talk about balls. 

I never had a problem at a train show other then somebody giving me too low of a price on something and I told them NO Sale.

I have had more problems with selling things on the forum for sale list then at train shows. So I quit listing stuff for sale on here, "end of story."

Lee Fritz

artyoung posted:

The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left.

I hate to say it, but I would like to have seen that.

Steven J. Serenska

david1 posted:

Never really had a problem with a vendor but when I was selling some engines on the ogr board around 6 years ago.

The buyer of one of the engines was very happy with the engine and the deal. Now forward about 5 years.

I received an email from the guy who bought the engine and wanted to return the engine to me. He told me he was tired of the engine and wanted me to refund what he paid. Of course I said no. I then got a obscene email accusing me of being a thief and many other names. 

I told him I don't lease model engines. You bought it, now you own it. You had it for 5 years! 

I then blocked him. Talk about balls. 

 

Amazing!! I like your lease comment. Lol. 

It's not really "getting into it", but one of my pet peeves is, after I politely say no to some seller's asking price, he immediately goes into hard-sell mode and/or starts questioning whether my expectations are realistic.

As an example, I purchased a postwar 415 Lionel Diesel Fueling station on an auction site 1-2 years ago for $47 plus, approx $13 for shipping. All in, I got it for around $60.

I was at a NETCA show a short while later and a guy had one on his table.  Because I am still an interested observer of the market, I flipped over his tag and saw he wanted $125.  I didn't say anything and continued to look at his other items.  He was staring at me like a hawk and said, "I can work with you on that fueling station."  I replied, "Sorry, no thanks.  It's ok."

He persisted with a trace of aggression, and said, "Well? Make me an offer."  I went with my standard second round of polite responses and said, "I'm sorry, that's a little over my budget for today."  I usually take this tack because many sellers will understand that it's nobody's business how much money I have to spend on trains.

Not this guy.  He said, "What's your budget?"  I said, "Sorry, I'm just not interested."  He then went into complete hard-sell mode and told me I wasn't going to find another one at the show, he hasn't seen one that nice for years, the rubber hose was still pliable and they often aren't, all the window inserts are there, it's got the box and instructions, George Washington slept in it, etc., etc., etc.

I didn't say anything else and just walked on to the next table, whereupon he said to no one in particular, but nice and loud, "And this guy just walks away?" He said it like I had been wasting *his* time.  I could hear him the rest of the way down the aisle with other assorted blather I didn't feel like responding to.

I can be a bad, snappish New Yorker and, believe me, it was all I could do to not say "I'm not interested because I just bought one for half your asking price, you moron.  Sheesh, take a hint." But this guy just wasn't worth the effort.

So it goes.  I find it helps to keep a quote often attributed to George Bernard Shaw in the back of my mind about why it's not a good idea to wrestle with a pig.

Steven J. Serenska

I recall one time years ago I went to a local show and saw an item I was interested in.  This particular item happened to be an uncatalogued item that ended up being produced in comparably low numbers once it was made, though that was not probably obvious to the hobby until it became "hot" and people were clamoring over it.

I saw this item on a vendor's table with what would have been a "normal" price for such an item of a similar rolling stock type.

When I expressed my interest, he claimed that that couldn't possibly be the right price for the piece and told me that "kids must have switched his price tags around". 

Now, these were not price tags that are simple to remove, like a post it that many sellers sometimes use at meets/shows to price their items.  This was a small label that would have at the least required some picking with a finger nail to lift up an edge to get a handle on a corner before you could remove it.

I always suspected the more likely scenario is that he priced it when he received it (before it became "hot") and didn't remember to modify the pricing to the level he really wanted to mark it up to before putting it on his table for that show.

To this day (probably almost 10 years later), I remember who that seller was and I refuse to enter his booth to look for anything when shopping.

-Dave

I've been attending train shows for almost 30 years, and I don't believe I have witnessed a major altercation between buyers and sellers. I have heard a lot of comments to third parties by both, however: sellers to the effect that "some people" don't want to pay what an item is really worth, and buyers to the effect that "some people" don't want to sell for what an item is really worth. I can never determine whether the "some people" refers to the same people or to different people. 

Most of the meets I go to are the NETCA meets.  I have both bought and sold at many meets.  I have never witnessed or heard a squabble.  However, as a seller, I had a very pleasant experience at one show.  An older gentleman picked up a car on my table that I had marked at $50.00.  He told me he would like to purchase it at $50.00, but he would feel like a thief if he did at he was sure it was worth at least 3 times as much.  I checked my price sheet and found I had marked the car incorrectly and the tag should have read $150.00 not $50.00.  I told him since he had been so honest, I would sell it to him for $135.00.  He said nope, it is well worth $150.00 so that is what I am going to give you for it.

A very honest gentleman, indeed.

Jim Lawson

artyoung posted:

Another Greenberg show years ago:  A prospective customer was flipping tags over to see the prices when the seller suddenly went off on him with some of the filthiest language I've ever heard (and I'm an old Sailor with a terminal case of sailor mouth myself). The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left. On my second pass through the hall, the seller had packed and left.

That is because this person saw his life flash before his eyes.Not every body is gonna take stuff like that.

dgauss posted:

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

Sad to hear he gonna find himself all alone.Because no one will want to be around.At most he could find himself band from venders.

dgauss posted:

"I remember him for starting a fist fight at the Lionel visitor store. "

He's real nasty . He's been kicked off Ebay and thinks he's a "player". Over-priced REJECTS ffrom the old Lionel store. A definite  loser and NOT representative of most in the hobby.

I ran into him at a local train shop, He pushed his way into a conversation I was having with the owner. I forget what the conversation was be he said " You don't know who I am do you ? " I said " Yes I do, and that is why I don't but anything form you " Luckily he is one of the few Bozo's in the hobby, but the many friends I have made in this hobby have made up for it....

Joe G posted:

Many years ago at a Greenberg show with a dealer named Mel Price, may God rest his soul, who insisted a bum engine we were returning was not his. My friend had purchased the item a week before at another show. If anybody knew this guy you know he get quit loud and nasty. Fortunately and wisely �� he maintained his cool and they worked it out ...

Remember the first time I met Mel Price when Greenberg's used to come to Pennsauken, NJ.  I was trying to buy something at the same price I heard one of his sales guys quote to another buyer.  Apparently, there was a floor selling price for certain items, and they would raise the price for the next guy - that being me.  Anyway, I told him I want the same price the previous guy was quoted.  He had to track down Mel.  Mel was inhaling a hotdog and excitedly trying to renegotiate the deal.  I got the price I wanted.  But, I remember thinking the way he was eating and dealing he would dig himself into an early grave.

Sure enough, I think he died at another Greenberg's show a few weeks later.

Fred

Yeah - and it was me (vendor at the time) who got heated. Honestly, I believe that every train show where I rent a table I wind up getting a little bent at somebody. And I honestly do not think that it's me - other "casual" vendors (just trying to thin the herd - I'm not even after a profit; good thing...) like me have said the same thing.

This was no big moment, but he wanted my Premier MTH DRGW caboose; NIB. I had $45 on it. Bargain; top-quality piece. He wanted me to go to $35. No, thanks - in fact I'm sticking with $45; good price. All this was said pleasantly. He got puffed up and said I ought to give him a "deal". Uh, first, why? And, second, for that item, $45 was a "deal". He stormed (kinda) out of the show altogether. Too weird.

Another guy at the same show 6 months earlier bought an older but nice, lightly (very) used Lionel Wabash 4-6-4 with TMCC, which worked when I boxed it up to sell. I tested it. He bought it; good price. He got it home and the TMCC receiver had failed. Without contacting me at all, he spent money getting it fixed, opened an "issue" with the TCA (I'm in it, too) as to his "recourse" with the seller, and got a third party involved. 

He could have just called, before all that. He got nothing from me at that point; really ticked me off.

There are others - but no strangling as yet!

D500 posted:

Yeah - and it was me (vendor at the time) who got heated. Honestly, I believe that every train show where I rent a table I wind up getting a little bent at somebody. And I honestly do not think that it's me - other "casual" vendors (just trying to thin the herd - I'm not even after a profit; good thing...) like me have said the same thing.

This was no big moment, but he wanted my Premier MTH DRGW caboose; NIB. I had $45 on it. Bargain; top-quality piece. He wanted me to go to $35. No, thanks - in fact I'm sticking with $45; good price. All this was said pleasantly. He got puffed up and said I ought to give him a "deal". Uh, first, why? And, second, for that item, $45 was a "deal". He stormed (kinda) out of the show altogether. Too weird.

Another guy at the same show 6 months earlier bought an older but nice, lightly (very) used Lionel Wabash 4-6-4 with TMCC, which worked when I boxed it up to sell. I tested it. He bought it; good price. He got it home and the TMCC receiver had failed. Without contacting me at all, he spent money getting it fixed, opened an "issue" with the TCA (I'm in it, too) as to his "recourse" with the seller, and got a third party involved. 

He could have just called, before all that. He got nothing from me at that point; really ticked me off.

There are others - but no strangling as yet!

I think you run into all kinds in this hobby.Thank god most in this hobby are not like that.

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

Andy Hummell posted:

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

I would have said this is my price.I am sure you can find what you want elsewere.This is what I would have said to him.A nice way to say "Listen bub I do not want any problems alright.

I know it's bizarre but I like this thread! I have a laugh reading your stories.

Of course I have never been to a large train swap meet, the biggest we have is maybe one or two tables at the one and only show once a year, but that's life.

Keep the stories coming.

Roo.

Andy Hummell posted:

At last York, another table-holder kept coming to my table and trying to buy a postwar boxcar I had for a LOT less than I was asking.  He tried three times with me, and once with my brother when I was away from the tables.  I offered to lower my price some, but he wouldn't budge from his lowball offer and kept making lame statements as to why my price was "unreasonable."

I don't lose my cool in these situations, but he sure made me wish I had a hammer handy to make "adjustments" to the boxcar to make it worth the price he was offering... It was not even an expensive car - the "book" price was $40, my price was $25, and he wanted to pay $10. 

Andy

 

I remember seeing a dealer at York about 15 years ago that did just that to some figures that a buyer made him a offer on. He only hurt himself by destroying them.

Last year when I was at York I was in the Silver Hall or the Blue Hall (I don't remember which) and came across a table that had some mint post-war tenders. I found the tender that originally came with my 2037 2-6-4 steamer. I have a tender, but this was the one that came with it. It was Saturday and I asked him what was his rock bottom price. He said name a price. It was $85 and I said $70. He didn't like that and said $75. I would have paid the $75, but I didn't like his attitude. I will walk away if I don't like their attitude no matter how much I want it.

DennyM posted:

Last year when I was at York I was in the Silver Hall or the Blue Hall (I don't remember which) and came across a table that had some mint post-war tenders. I found the tender that originally came with my 2037 2-6-4 steamer. I have a tender, but this was the one that came with it. It was Saturday and I asked him what was his rock bottom price. He said name a price. It was $85 and I said $70. He didn't like that and said $75. I would have paid the $75, but I didn't like his attitude. I will walk away if I don't like their attitude no matter how much I want it.

Wow he lost a sell because of his attitude.Maybe he should have learn how to not do that.He most likely kicked himself for doing that.

Most heated argument I've had was over a New Jersey central caboose. Price on it was $20.00 Now as a precautionary measure to my bank account whatever amount of money I have in my pocket is all I allow myself to spend at a show. I was down to my last $15 and tried to make an offer but he wouldn't budge. I approached him again near the end of the show and he begrudgingly agreed. 

Only other issue that arose was that I was wearing my Pere Marquette 1225 hat and a dealer kept Trying to sell me a post war berk no matter how many times I politely refused. Eventually had to just walk away mid sales pitch.

Well some guy who looked like David Spade went to a swap meet saw a rare item asked the guy how much, the guy wanted "a little too much" according to a bystander. Well he walked away some guy who saw the Spade look alike said he will buy the item.

The guy who bought it was pretty old. Well Spade's look alike didn't like that shoved the guy, broke the item the old guy got up and beat the crap out of the look alike. 

Apparently the Vendor didn't like David Spade...

DENNYM.

I admire your discipline!

Roo.

Not at a train show, but at the Kane Co. Toy Show, as a vendor I lost my cool when some vegetable opened, breaking the seal, on an unopened model building, of those made in Lafayette, Indiana, that came out of the closed factory.  I can't now think of the name but they were made about HO size, and used on a lot of layouts, including mine as a kid.  Some were O scale including a car dealer I was glad to find.  Bilt-Rite is the name, just thought of.  An altercation I witnessed, that had me ducking for cover was at the Carlisle car swap meet where I have picked up at least one rare train set.  One guy was unhappy with something that had been shipped to him and there was much yelling and name calling.

A lot Chief's  and no Indians .  

Roo posted:

DENNYM.

I admire your discipline!

Roo.

Thanks Roo,

That's the way I am. There is a way to treat people and I try to treat people respectfully unless they give me a reason not to. It was the way he responded.

Still a rookie I guess! I have been to the last 6 York shows and several big local shows! If I see something I like I ask if the seller can do better especially if I bundle! The answer is either yes or no! I look around and all I can see is vendors, smile and on to the next one! But my experience is that most vendors are willing to deal! Every time I go, they are the ones I go to first! It's called building a clientele!

I was at a small regional show (I believe it was at Wayne, NJ) and I was looking for a Lionel RDC #400 for a friend who couldn't make the show.  I saw a very nice one, but the price tag was about ten times what it should have been. I was sure that the seller had just put another zero on the tag by mistake. When I pointed it out, he became hostile and stated that the price he had on it was what the price guides said was the correct amount.

He then opened a price guide and showed me how a Lionel model 400 was priced.  The only problem was that he was looking at the numerical listing for a prewar Lionel 400 tinplate steam locomotive, not a post-war RDC.  I gently corrected him, and he un-gently called me a thief, so we mutually decided that the negotiations were over.  No strangling or tongue-sticking was necessary.

When I am selling at a show I have some items that I really want to move and others that I will sell if I can get my price.  The stuff that I really want to sell I mark at low prices.  The stuff that I don't care about I mark at a price higher than I will accept.

I always expect that most customers will ask for a price reduction.  I am amazed at how many buyers don't ask.  I think that most Americans are so used to paying retail prices in stores that they believe all prices are set.  Americans have not grown up in a society that bargains.    

I always ask for a better deal from a seller.  I usually get it especially if I am buying several items.  I either accept the asking price or walk away if the seller won't bargain.

 In the end, it really doesn't matter if a seller won't reduce a price.  I already have so many trains that I will never run out of model railroading projects.

A visit to a train show either as a buyer or seller should be a pleasant experience.   Confrontations should not happen. 

NH Joe

New Haven Joe posted:

I always expect that most customers will ask for a price reduction.  I am amazed at how many buyers don't ask.  I think that most Americans are so used to paying retail prices in stores that they believe all prices are set.  Americans have not grown up in a society that bargains.    

NH Joe

 I am one of those who don't ask, I figure most vendors will come down 5% to 10%. If I see a price that I consider way to high I won't waste my time or theirs, Asking for a 50% off marked price is an insult IMO. With all the info available today, both sides need to do a little homework and decide what the going rates are and start from there.  

Unbelievable! I have never gone to a toy train swap meet but spent over twenty years going to monthly gun shows as a vendor and have never witnessed anything like what I am reading here. That would I think make an interesting study for a psychologist!

I help run a show and sell as well.  I price so there's some wiggle room, especially if a person buys a number of pieces or is a repeat customer.  I get tired of someone offering me a quarter of the price I have on the tag - I don't change my mind the second/third/fifth time the lowballer asks for the item at a ridiculous price.  I really dislike having a sweaty wad of cash getting waved in my face - the answer will still be no.  

midnightwrecking posted:

Unbelievable! I have never gone to a toy train swap meet but spent over twenty years going to monthly gun shows as a vendor and have never witnessed anything like what I am reading here. That would I think make an interesting study for a psychologist!

I think it's partially due to the nature of what you have available at a gun show lol. A bit healthier respect for the spoken word when a weapon is around.  

It has been years since I have been to a gun show...my dad's hobby...and pricing there has moonshot like vintage cars, which is not encouraging, but the last time I walked by one on a state fairgrounds next door to a simultaneous train show, vendors were made to open breeches to show guns were unloaded as carried in, with the state police in attendance.  Doubt if too many fights will erupt with all the Smokey hats around.

seaboardm2 posted:

I would have said this is my price.I am sure you can find what you want elsewere.This is what I would have said to him.A nice way to say "Listen bub I do not want any problems alright.

First time around, I told him the lowest price I was willing to accept and that it was the lowest price I was willing to accept.  It didn't stop him from trying 2-3 more times.  Some people just don't take "no" for an answer.

Andy

I've never sold (nor I I ever intend to) at a show but I have had the experience of being an exhibitor with our modular club, one of, if not the largest O gauge clubs in the country operating a modular layout at about 25-30 separate events each year. 

Selling - as mentioned, I have no intention of selling. I've been a buyer of course over the years. I've been on the road with the modular layout for nearly 11 years now. I've been attending local shows - from World's Greatest Hobby shows, to Greenberg, to local swap meets, and local layout-only fundraiser events, including those at County Fairs and other non-train venues. Greenberg shows here are not what they used to be. We are not participating in the upcoming one, a first in a long time. Not worth the time to go see. Mostly toys, dolls, etc. A shell of their former selves. Of course, I go to York. I have seen a lot. I cannot think of a single time were I've seen things get "heated" between a customer or vendor. I haven't had it happen to me nor do I intend for it to happen to me. Have I seen some insanely priced items? You bet! Is it worth getting into an argument over? Nope. If it is something I want, I may or may not make an offer. If it is accepted, great. If not, so be it. No big deal.

Exhibitor - As an exhibitor with the modular layout, I've seen thing get tense, maybe even heated on rare occasions with the spectators. Granted we do not want this to happen but when mom or dad think nothing is wrong that Junior is grabbing at and/or picking up locomotives, cars, etc on the layout and they don't like us gently and kindly asking them to keep their hands to themselves, issues have come up. I have had equipment damaged by kids not being carefully watched by their parents. When kindly asking the to keep to themselves and if I bring up the cost of my damaged car or locomotive, I have had parents try to argue about the costs, "it shouldn't be here", my kid is just having fun, etc. Buy your own $500+ steam locomotive to trash, not mine. I remember one of our events at a county fair event. A friend of mine at the time, just proudly picked up a fully loaded MTH Premier Pennsylvania Railroad K4 - beautiful engine with the pinstripes on the wheels, tons of separate detail and a beautiful train of matching cars to go with it. I remember one parent picking it up off the layout to show their kid. Once we quickly attended to the situation, the parent was argumentative and rude. 

Not to say all of the spectators are like this - absolutely not. I personally enjoy talking with the crowd more than I do just running the trains! However, there is a small bunch that think we are their babysitters for a bit. 

People will defend their children no matter what, up to and including murder!

NYC,SUBWAY TRANSIT SIGNAL posted:

A lot Chief's  and no Indians .  

 

 

 

 

Too many boxcars, not enough engines

Unless there are a few folks handling the equipment, I ask before I touch; it's not my stuff, and I'm not at a store, so I assume little. I could have sworn asking was in the guidelines for one of the big collector's clubs too.

Ignoring a sign is very disrespectful. Larsony and theft aren't the same thing, look it up. The beginning of the last century you may have been arrested for simply touching things that did not belong to you. We assume too much today.

Normally I throw in "The Haggle" by Monty Python about now, but for "something completely different" I wanted to thank those that realized I didn't really want to haggle and lowered the prices without it. And to the fellow that accepted my $15 dollars for the $25 NYC gondola at close in Livonia(?) It WAS all I had besides $3 for gas and a buck for a soda

(And I still asked to touch it after you agreed. Wasn't mine yet )

SJC posted:

I've never sold (nor I I ever intend to) at a show but I have had the experience of being an exhibitor with our modular club, one of, if not the largest O gauge clubs in the country operating a modular layout at about 25-30 separate events each year. 

Selling - as mentioned, I have no intention of selling. I've been a buyer of course over the years. I've been on the road with the modular layout for nearly 11 years now. I've been attending local shows - from World's Greatest Hobby shows, to Greenberg, to local swap meets, and local layout-only fundraiser events, including those at County Fairs and other non-train venues. Greenberg shows here are not what they used to be. We are not participating in the upcoming one, a first in a long time. Not worth the time to go see. Mostly toys, dolls, etc. A shell of their former selves. Of course, I go to York. I have seen a lot. I cannot think of a single time were I've seen things get "heated" between a customer or vendor. I haven't had it happen to me nor do I intend for it to happen to me. Have I seen some insanely priced items? You bet! Is it worth getting into an argument over? Nope. If it is something I want, I may or may not make an offer. If it is accepted, great. If not, so be it. No big deal.

Exhibitor - As an exhibitor with the modular layout, I've seen thing get tense, maybe even heated on rare occasions with the spectators. Granted we do not want this to happen but when mom or dad think nothing is wrong that Junior is grabbing at and/or picking up locomotives, cars, etc on the layout and they don't like us gently and kindly asking them to keep their hands to themselves, issues have come up. I have had equipment damaged by kids not being carefully watched by their parents. When kindly asking the to keep to themselves and if I bring up the cost of my damaged car or locomotive, I have had parents try to argue about the costs, "it shouldn't be here", my kid is just having fun, etc. Buy your own $500+ steam locomotive to trash, not mine. I remember one of our events at a county fair event. A friend of mine at the time, just proudly picked up a fully loaded MTH Premier Pennsylvania Railroad K4 - beautiful engine with the pinstripes on the wheels, tons of separate detail and a beautiful train of matching cars to go with it. I remember one parent picking it up off the layout to show their kid. Once we quickly attended to the situation, the parent was argumentative and rude. 

Not to say all of the spectators are like this - absolutely not. I personally enjoy talking with the crowd more than I do just running the trains! However, there is a small bunch that think we are their babysitters for a bit. 

You could have pointed out that.Your kids breaks you will replace it.I pretty sure the police will be happy to talk to you about this matter.Being that there signs all around saying about parents to keep watch over your children.Thankful the shows I have been to parents kept their kids in check.

sjc wrote:

Exhibitor - As an exhibitor with the modular layout, I've seen thing get tense, maybe even heated on rare occasions with the spectators. Granted we do not want this to happen but when mom or dad think nothing is wrong that Junior is grabbing at and/or picking up locomotives, cars, etc on the layout and they don't like us gently and kindly asking them to keep their hands to themselves, issues have come up. I have had equipment damaged by kids not being carefully watched by their parents. When kindly asking the to keep to themselves and if I bring up the cost of my damaged car or locomotive, I have had parents try to argue about the costs, "it shouldn't be here", my kid is just having fun, etc. Buy your own $500+ steam locomotive to trash, not mine. I remember one of our events at a county fair event. A friend of mine at the time, just proudly picked up a fully loaded MTH Premier Pennsylvania Railroad K4 - beautiful engine with the pinstripes on the wheels, tons of separate detail and a beautiful train of  we quickly attended to the situation, the parent was argumentative and rude. 

Unfortunately, there even some forum members with that point of view, that even think that it is blasphemous to put a plexi-glass screen around a layout to prevent such things.

There are those that feel it is wrong to prevent children from handling/damaging displayed trains(and have posted as much) Some seem to feel that rather than "deprive" their child the right to grab anything sight, it is better to deprive other spectators the right to see Highly detailed, accurate or expensive equipment, that they otherwise likely would not see.

Personal responsibility and accountability are Quickly becoming things only found in History books.

Doug

Those parents who do not, and, apparently, today there are many who do not, teach their offspring respect for other people's property, will get to experience the guys in uniform driving the sedans with the bubble gum machines on top, at their door inquiring after their little darlings, and get to shell out to bail them out of the pokey, and for their legal fees.   But, if we are all lucky, those same parents will get to see them on visitors' day at the government long term motel, and lament the bright futures they will have with a felony conviction.

Years back when I first started in the hobby there was a vendor at the Wayne NJ train show that had a table full of postwar stuff that he was trying to sell off at low prices. Some potential buyer kept coming over to his table and wanted to buy his exploding box car and insisted that $4.00 was a fair price. The seller declined. After the fifth try the seller had had enough and said watch this, he threw that car on the floor, stepped on it and cracked it in pieces, saying that for $4 I would rather break the car in half and throw it out, then sell it to you. 

Another time at York maybe 10 years back I saw a buyer and seller arguing for reasons that I do not know. The altercation got so heated that security had to step in just as it was about to come to blows.  I do not know what became of those two guys,  but its reasonable to believe that they were banned from future meets.

The bottom line here is that we are talking about model trains. Are they so important that people need to fight over them?

Well Folks,

After reading all of the "entertaining" accounts of human interaction of the "Butthead Kind", I couldn't contain my contribution any longer.   Back in the day when My Father and I did the "Weekend Warrior" train circuit, (most of northern Ohio and a little Michigan and Pennsylvania thrown in for laughs), I, on more than one occasion,  encountered the,  "I can get this (fill in the blank) for "X" Dollars less at that table over there", Guy.   However, the key piece of information omitted by Mr. "Taffy Pockets" was that the Cheaper item he saw on a table "over there" wasn't compatible with what he was modeling.   It was probably Great Northern or Union Pacific and this guy modeled Pennsy or one of the other eastern roads.  So, to make a long story short, I would just give Mr." I can get it on that table over there for "X" Dollars less", the long blank stare and reply with, "Then whadda ya doin over here?"   After which I would totally ignore Mr. "Price Conscious Shopper", and go about my business socializing with some of my Regular Clientele who would normally stop to visit and ALWAYS make a purchase.   Those guys were "Golden".

Chief Bob (Retired)  

Even where "a kid can be a kid" you'll be asked to leave if you're darling little animals belong on a leash

I've seen things I could not harm with a hammer broken by 8 year olds before. Those "aliens among us" theories looked pretty feasible on occasion.

While we often cry for new blood in the hobby, if we don't include a cry for respect also, why bother with "models"? Just pump out more throw away toys.

On the heads up side of the coin , there's also young folk like Maxrailroad. All is not lost. 

Just food for thought; no real point or solution.

What brought it on was a memory of a hand slap while I was pointing at a PW Warbonnet while educating my brother. 4" was too close for that grump. I responded by asking for gloves to aggravate him, then walked off counting my singles as tens out loud. Gramps had me scouting for him, but the grump didn't know that. We did go back, he knew Gramps and apologized to me before being asked to or knowing we were together. I can't remember if the deal was struck or not, but it was the nicest SF red bonnet there, and I knew even then, I was an exception to the stereotype. Heck, I might have been more mature then than today I do remember Gramps bragging about his "re-railing" crew to the guy and his astonished acceptance of it as fact. When he asked how wise it was for a kid to have a wad of cash, I think finding out my singles were being counted as tens softened him some too. Finding out a kid pulled the wool down a bit has a humbling effect on most folk vs anger. But between those two shows, I had little reason to want to keep going to shows. I liked unwrapping surprises better.

I like this story.

Thanks Dennis I'm still laughing. Roo.

Years back when I first started in the hobby there was a vendor at the Wayne NJ train show that had a table full of postwar stuff that he was trying to sell off at low prices. Some potential buyer kept coming over to his table and wanted to buy his exploding box car and insisted that $4.00 was a fair price. The seller declined. After the fifth try the seller had had enough and said watch this, he threw that car on the floor, stepped on it and cracked it in pieces, saying that for $4 I would rather break the car in half and throw it out, then sell it to you. 

Some funny stories. I'd pay double admission to see grown men get into a fight over toys.

Dang,two pages in and no mention of the two legendary,now banned,hot head sellers at the monthly Wheaton train shows. 

When I'm selling I try very hard to avoid conflict and aggravation, etc.

However, it gets old really fast having guys pick up a $100 item than I have marked for $10 and ask if I'll take $1 for it.  It gets older faster when it's another table holder that comes over for a $350 engine that I have on sale for $150 and asks if I'll take $100...when he's got 2 of them on his table for $250.

Jim 1939 posted:

A private one with an old fart seller at York. He had something I had been looking for but when I picked it up he went into hyper tension. He had no do not touch signs and I told him I won't buy what I can't look at. His reply was you can look but do not touch. I walked away. April York it was still on his table.

I used to operate my current business in HO scale many years ago. I was working a train show and had modules with built-up examples of my building kits on display. I had "do not touch" signs everywhere.

Two women approached who spoke English but didn't understand it. They ignored my polite requests to not touch and starting picking stuff up. I finally got them to leave.

Another vendor nearby told me horror stories of the local show always siding with the customer, including those who broke things.

I willing honor a do not touch sign. This grumpy old guy had none. I can say that cause I'm a grumpy old guy too. He is a regular at York but I wonder if he ever sells anything.

CWB to answer you earlier question, yes others had what I was looking for.

Pufferbelly wrote -"Taffy Pockets"

That's priceless! Expect to be plagiarized.

Jim 1939  - Thanks for clarifying. You had this grump worried. It took me two two days to find the "stones" to throw. I hope they didn't bruise bad. I don't usually edit out my idiocy, but will if you'd like. Sorry. Insert "ASSuME" joke here please.

I do remember a time when I pulled a fast one on a buddy of mine.

I happened to call him and see if he was going to attend a local train show.

When I arrived  I paid the early bird fee.

I happened to see an MTH corner building with a Miller neon sign on it for 20.00. I quickly paid for it and told the Vendor I would pick it up on the way out.

During the show I saw my friend arrive, and he saw the same building, he then picked it up and started to hand the seller money for it... before the seller could say it was sold, I  snucked up behind him, firmly tapped him on the shoulder and said loudly "Sir, please put that building down, its mine ! He jumped about 3 foot...He then turned around and was ready to lay into me when he recognized who it was, and said you Son of a *#*$&! (pup)  and we both started to laugh...

We still both laugh about it today....

About 15 years ago at York I was searching for a Standard Gauge 19 Combine to complete a set and I seen a table with one without a price. I asked the seller how much and he quoted a ridiculous high price. I made a offer he said no because I need the car and he had the car. I politely told him sorry I don't need the car and walked off. It was to my advantage because about 3 or 4 aisles over I spotted a identical car for less than half the price which I think was more than a fair price and bought it without making a offer which I think would have been a insult. 

At a train or ham show, I keep my hands held behind my back unless I am interested in something.  Sellers ask why I do that.  I just say that is the way I was taught.  Some thank me.

But I wonder if the situation with children  would be if parents have to buy liability insurance on them.

I've really never had much of any problems nor have I witnessed any.  Worst I had was a guy who bought a large AF transformer from me that had no handles and one of the shafts was damaged.  I told him the only thing it was good for was as a fixed voltage source for accessories.  He later came back and wanted a refund, which I refused to do.  He went and got the event manager and after hearing both sides of the story, the manager refused to intervene.  

However, I used to sell at computer shows and the biggest problem there was people buying something you had, knowing they had the exact same motherboard, hard drive, processor, or memory stick at home that was bad.  After buying my item, they would return a while later and claim it was defective.  I started putting a hidden mark on my items.   That stopped that problem.  I would also "seal" up a defective hard drive inside brand new packaging and put it out on the table for people to steal.  Written inside under the double flap of the box was an explaination of why there was a bad hard drive in the sealed box that he had stolen.  Pretty embarassing for the thief, but well worth my time and effort.  The real hard drive was kept under the table for honest people who wanted to buy one.  The show in Dallas had police on duty and would have them arrested.  They would then photograph the thief and their documentation including the no trespassing citation.  All of this would be published on their website each month.  Kind of a rogues gallery.  This allowed vendors to review all the pictures of problem individuals before each show and keep an eye out for them.  Vegetable garden netting was also used to make it hard to pick things up.   I have also photographed people who were disrespectful or very difficult to deal with for my future reference.

For trains, I have a table top display that has five stair stepped wooden shelves to display my trains.  From the last shelf to the top of the table is protected by a "L" shaped piece of plexiglass about 12 inches deep and about 6 inches high.  This seals the area from the top of the table to the bottom of the first shelf.  Anything valuable, mint boxed postwar, small parts, engines, etc are put on the table top but under that plexiglass cover.  It reduces the potential damage and loss from both large hands and small hands.  It also reduces the Sunday shopper experience of "just picking it up to see how heavy it is" and "I always wanted to see one up close".

I can't imagine someone offering me the same price over and over after I had already said no.  I'm not sure how that would work out.   I would probably be getting my phone to take a picture of them.

Things I do at train meets,

Walk right by vendors who put their items under glass, plastic wrap or whatever.

No price, No stop

Dirty, no sale

Can not pick it up ( even if I ask ) to inspect it, seller can keep it.

unpleasant seller, you guess

Not willing to deal, take it home. 

aussteve posted:

He later came back and wanted a refund, which I refused to do.  He went and got the event manager and after hearing both sides of the story, the manager refused to intervene.  

 I would also "seal" up a defective hard drive inside brand new packaging and put it out on the table for people to steal.  Written inside under the double flap of the box was an explaination of why there was a bad hard drive in the sealed box that he had stolen.  Pretty embarassing for the thief, but well worth my time and effort. 

For model train stuff (I just sell excess stuff once a year) and military collectible shows (which I sell at several times a year), I've had several people come back and want a refund because they decided they didn't want it. I've always suspected in most cases they found another just like it cheaper at another table or a totally different item they wanted more and then realized they didn't have any more money left over after the purchase at my table. Beats me why anyone would think that would work. My response is always, "Hey, this isn't WalMart, there's no return counter here." That's always worked so far and nobody running those shows is going to take anyone's side of a dispute like that. Not that this has happened a lot of times, but it's happened enough to other guys I see at shows for me to have been ready for it the first time it happened to me.

I knew a guy who put some manner of GPS tracker into (non-model-train) items that were likely to be stolen from his sales table, and had big signs declaring as such. When something got stolen, he told the cops exactly where to go and that word got around fast. He also found a way to not have his Uhaul trucks stolen at hotel parking lots when he's going to big shows by putting a sign in the windows stating that a GPS unit is hidden somewhere in the truck (and it's no bluff) that will alert him immediately when it moves and that he'll have police go right to wherever it is. in transit, if stolen. Expensive, he says, but well worth the cost for peace of mind.

He will hover and hound the seller for a deal and become extremely irate if the seller does not drop his price.

If he does swaggle a deal he will immediately race home and put it on the bay for 3 or 5 times the price... (just look for the pink ruler)

Yeah, there's a guy like that locally for military shows. I never give him a deal and once he pestered me at my table, I told him that his prices are now 150% of everyone else. He screamed, "YOU CAN'T DO THAT!" And I smiled and said, "Twice the price, now. Forever." I told him it was an "@-hole tax." I refuse to sell anything to him at any price now. Drives him totally nuts.

Another Greenberg show years ago:  A prospective customer was flipping tags over to see the prices when the seller suddenly went off on him with some of the filthiest language I've ever heard (and I'm an old Sailor with a terminal case of sailor mouth myself). The customer very slowly reached over and took the seller by the throat and squeezed until his tongue stuck out and said "I just wanted to see if your tongue had turned black from those words" and left. On my second pass through the hall, the seller had packed and left.

Good grief. That's a totally unacceptable response, I don't care what it said to the potential seller. No amount of rudeness merits that. I can tell you if someone did that to several of the show sellers I know (myself included), they'd likely be looking down the loaded barrel of a handgun and if they're lucky, without seeing that split second of the muzzle flash! That customer is lucky that didn't happen or the cops weren't called!

But as for the "I deserve a deal because I'm me" types, I've seen lots of them. You think model train people are cheap? Meh, rank amateurs compared to military collectors. Had a guy pull that, "Don't you know who I am?" shtick and turned out he'd written some guide book to collecting WW2 German stuff (which I'm not into). I replied, "Nope, and I don't price according to who a person is. the price is the price, period." Yeah, I do charge more for a few people I can't stand, but he got the point. He came close to being a 150%-er, too, but paid my price on the item after all.

At a railroad collector show in the late 80s, my NRHS chapter had a sales table. This guy saw a Southern RR china dish (a butter dish if I remember correctly) for sale at $1.00. He kept coming by offering 50 cents. Nope, we always replied, a buck is a deal. He kept hovering nearby and every time anyone would even touch it, he run over and have a panic attack at the chance he wouldn't get it. This kept going until the show was over and we were packing up. This manatee came waddling over with a [bleep]-eating grin, saying, "I bet you'll sell it to me for 50 cents now!" A guy in the group grabbed it, smashed it against the concrete floor, and gave the guy some choice words about annoying us all day. The look on his face was utterly priceless. All for fifty cents.

I first started buying stuff at RR collectible shows at the age of about 15 or so (I was in a NRHS chapter and would go to shows with those great guys). All the time, people would tell me "You don't have enough for that, kid," not realizing I'd saved up for half the year in some cases. Sometimes I'd buy something similar at another table, come by the "you can't afford this" table and point out I paid more for a better item elsewhere. Man, the looks on their faces. Happened all the time. Especially in this era, never assume a kid doesn't have any money. I've sold a lot of stuff to pre-teens with giant wads of bills before!

As for display stuff, my primary hobby is WW2 living history displays. I couldn't begin to mention all the insane things I've seen over the years. Couldn't count the number of times I've watched someone move the 'do not touch' sign out of the way to pick up some rare/expensive WW2 weapon. A family threw all the WW2 ammo crates out of my 1944 Jeep at an Armed Forces Day event to sit in it to eat their lunch (my do not touch display signs were scatted all over the place). They refused to get out when I told them to leave. they also refused to get out for the MP I called right over, but of course they left when told they were going to leave on foot or in the squad car and the choice was theirs. And the MP and I got the stink-eye from them because in their eyes, we were in the wrong.

Dan986 posted:

Dang,two pages in and no mention of the two legendary,now banned,hot head sellers at the monthly Wheaton train shows. 

They where banned as in come back and I will call the police.Really whats the story I like to hear it.

At one of the previous Greenberg train shows in Edison NJ , I was packing up with the Hi-Railers and caught a video of a man lashing out and attacking another man who had virtually destroyed hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of brand new or older HO trains. The way it went down was that a guy was backing his truck out of the building as is the common practice of bringing in commercial vehicles. Anyways this genius turns his truck slightly to the left and knocks over at least 18 milk cartons filled to the brim with HO train boxes. Not to mention the cartons were on folding tables at the time. With a huge bang three rows of packed trains fell to the floor. The resulting view was complete carnage. Milk cartons crushing other train boxes that had fallen to the floor, tables and boxes and pieces everywhere. Naturally I whipped out my phone and started filming. The owner stumbled back to the scene to witness most of the trains he didn't sell crushed and in ruin. Lets just say the look on his face was priceless. The owner confronted the driver like an angry bull and charged. He nearly strangled the driver while others jumped in to rip them apart. Of course this gentleman didn't realize someone could be filming him and basically made himself look like a fool. For me people like him give off a bad image of the hobby.

seaboardm2 posted:

Dan986 posted:

Dang,two pages in and no mention of the two legendary,now banned,hot head sellers at the monthly Wheaton train shows. 

They where banned as in come back and I will call the police.Really whats the story I like to hear it.

Stuff like this is tightly isolated to the regulars of such shows and rarely ever known outside of those circles.

I've never heard of a model train seller so vilified that they were told never to come back under fear of calling the cops. What's the story there?

Considering some of the truly scary people you can meet at a model train show, I can't easily imagine how bad you'd have to be to get to this level!

I've not sold at train shows but have a few decades of farm toy show sales "under the belt".  One thing I ended up making was a closed display case.  I call this the price amplifier.  The items inside are highly breakable and stuff I don't want pilfered.  Since its in the case, it stays clean and finger print free.  I'll gladly remove it for anyone interested to see closer if they want.  I've heard of lots of other stuff that has "walked off" and my investment needs to be re-couped by ME!!!

I've done the coin flip on prices many times.  If I have it marked at $20 and you offer $15, we flip a coin.  If I win you pay my price, you win, you get it for yours.  THIS saves a lot of haggling and it can be fun too!!

Never had a fight at a Farm Toy show, but country people must be more low stressed than others....

Something I've been asked to do many times is to "hold" an item and they will be by later to get it.  I'll do this if ONLY they PAY for it. I don't have a free lay-a-way policy.

RaritanRiverRailroadFan4 posted:

At one of the previous Greenberg train shows in Edison NJ , I was packing up with the Hi-Railers and caught a video of a man lashing out and attacking another man who had virtually destroyed hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of brand new or older HO trains. The way it went down was that a guy was backing his truck out of the building as is the common practice of bringing in commercial vehicles. Anyways this genius turns his truck slightly to the left and knocks over at least 18 milk cartons filled to the brim with HO train boxes. Not to mention the cartons were on folding tables at the time. With a huge bang three rows of packed trains fell to the floor. The resulting view was complete carnage. Milk cartons crushing other train boxes that had fallen to the floor, tables and boxes and pieces everywhere. Naturally I whipped out my phone and started filming. The owner stumbled back to the scene to witness most of the trains he didn't sell crushed and in ruin. Lets just say the look on his face was priceless. The owner confronted the driver like an angry bull and charged. He nearly strangled the driver while others jumped in to rip them apart. Of course this gentleman didn't realize someone could be filming him and basically made himself look like a fool. For me people like him give off a bad image of the hobby.

Sounds like he had a big collection that took time to put together.All the lost money he will never get.As for the driver he should have jusy parked his truck outside.And got help to unload what ever he had.That way he would not have back into the trains.

Like P51 stated earlier, I had my Horse Cavalry display out, 1904 to 1945, and on the table I had an unissued Carbine scabbard for the saddle. All over the table I had Do Not Touch signs. Sure enough, Bill Ray Rollbar, came over, eating a Chili Dog, went to grab the scabbard, had to remind him of the signs. Things went south from there.

This is the best thread ever, forget about modelling . I'm going to be disappointed when it fizzles out.

I like this from BERMUDA KEN.

"I've done the coin flip on prices many times.  If I have it marked at $20 and you offer $15, we flip a coin.  If I win you pay my price, you win, you get it for yours.  THIS saves a lot of haggling and it can be fun too!!"

Roo.

Dan986 posted:

Dang,two pages in and no mention of the two legendary,now banned,hot head sellers at the monthly Wheaton train shows. 

Would you mean anything about "Doug"? I don't know if anyone who has ever met him walked away without at the very least wanting to have some choice words with him.

Well, looks like posted above is a good reason they don't allow vehicles in the York halls.

Once at the Wheaton show my uncle and I were looking at a sellers brand new still in box post war horse car loader and my uncle picked up the box of horses and started to open it. I look over just in time to see the seller notice my uncle opening his precious box. The contortions his face was making made me wonder if somebody was pulling his toenails out with a pliers and every time my uncle moved that box his expressions got worse until he finally in a stammering voice yanked the box out of his hands and said J-J-J-J-JUST G-G-GIVIT TO ME". We laughed for a good half an hour and still get a great laugh everytime one of us brings it up. I wish I was video taping that.

Once at the Wheaton show my uncle and I were looking at a sellers brand new still in box post war horse car loader and my uncle picked up the box of horses and started to open it. I look over just in time to see the seller notice my uncle opening his precious box. The contortions his face was making made me wonder if somebody was pulling his toenails out with a pliers and every time my uncle moved that box his expressions got worse until he finally in a stammering voice yanked the box out of his hands and said J-J-J-J-JUST G-G-GIVIT TO ME". We laughed for a good half an hour and still get a great laugh everytime one of us brings it up. I wish I was video taping that.

Those small boxes can be extremely difficult to open without damaging the box. And there are some items that I think are just about impossible to get back in the box once its been removed (not the horses)
I think the seller had a lot of restraint to have let your uncle fidget with the box as much as he did. (Not that he should be rude about it).

Have been a buyer/seller at many types of collectible shows.  I've only seen things get unpleasant on a couple of occasions, and it's usually related to poor general social skills from one party or the other.  Incidents of real rudeness are pretty few and far between in my experience.

I've never had a problem smiling, saying thank you for your time, and then walking away from a deal that's not working for me, but as a younger-ish person who is generally knowledgeable about O gauge trains, being talked down to is particularly irritating.

The only personal story I have to add... I really like the old orange Lionel Tropicana cars (6-17307, 6-17308, 6-17309, 6-17310) and have four sets of four plus a couple of extras.  I'm always willing to pick up another set when I can, as they look awesome behind my Lionel CSX Dash 8 (6-18215).  Generally you shouldn't ever pay more than $100 for a full set of these, and no more than $20-$25 in the box, $15 out of the box.

This seller had a set of four marked RARE COMPLETE SET $225.  Normally I would have just chuckled to myself and walked on, but I did take a closer look to see if they were some kind of special variant I hadn't heard about or something.  When he saw me looking, he came right over.  "You won't EVER find a complete set of those together, that's crazy rare and I've got a FANTASTIC price on them."  I had no desire to engage with him because I'd seen him get short with people at previous shows, so I said thank you and that it was out of my price range.  Then he had to go there:  "You're going to have to start spending some money if you want to do anything in this hobby."  I smiled again, took out my phone and showed him a picture of my four sets together.  I said, "Here are mine--these cars are worth $25 each.  I'll buy the set for $100 if you want to do it."  He got red in the face and I left.  Five or six shows later, those super-rare cars are still on his shelf.  People aren't going to buy from you if you're grossly mispriced and condescending to boot.

We would have bought it if he wasn't such a jerk. The box had been opened, all in all, not that big of a deal. We though about buying just to rip up the boxes in front of him

"new in the box" can double the price for some collectors...which I why I got upset when an unopened box was slit open on my table.  And some packaging seems to be designed to thwart putting the contents back in without damage.  "You break it, you bought it" applies.

seaboardm2 posted:

DennyM posted:

Last year when I was at York I was in the Silver Hall or the Blue Hall (I don't remember which) and came across a table that had some mint post-war tenders. I found the tender that originally came with my 2037 2-6-4 steamer. I have a tender, but this was the one that came with it. It was Saturday and I asked him what was his rock bottom price. He said name a price. It was $85 and I said $70. He didn't like that and said $75. I would have paid the $75, but I didn't like his attitude. I will walk away if I don't like their attitude no matter how much I want it.

Wow he lost a sell because of his attitude.Maybe he should have learn how to not do that.He most likely kicked himself for doing that.

I doubt it. Guys like that have been that way their entire life and probably thinks he's never wrong.