Having I been using the WRONG transformer for my Std. Gauge trains???

I use a Lionel  post war ZW on both loops. The first floor one is about 40 ft of track and I can run 6 cars easily. I would think a Z1000  is small.

jim pastorius posted:

I use a Lionel  post war ZW on both loops. The first floor one is about 40 ft of track and I can run 6 cars easily. I would think a Z1000  is small.

any particular reason you are running Lionel ZW instead of the MTH product. What track do you have, jp?. 

I have 5 MRC AH-601's. They work well with MTH Proto engines.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com...er-A-p/mrc-ah601.htm

Steve

Assuming that the transformer isn't defective, the Z1000 should work.  It's what MTH ships with their SG sets.  You might get a voltage drop over a long distance, but if the Z1000 is functioning properly, I can't imagine how it could fry the engine.

Carey,

The Z1000 is a little small, but it should do, unless you are trying to run multiple trains on the same track. It gives you 100 watts of power. Assume voltage is constant at 18 volts on most power supplies. That means the Z1000 has a 5.6 amp capacity.  That should be fine for running a single PS2 standard gauge engine even with lighted cars. Conventional engines may draw a little more power with the original prewar motors.

Each handle on the Z4000 is rated at 180 watts of power, so you get up to a full 10 amps. Also, you get meters that tell you how much power is being drawn while running the trains.

I actually run a Lionel ZW-C and I can hook up four 180 watt power supplies to that. I have the meter add-on as well. I have not had any problems running conventional or MTH PS2 and PS3 trains with it.

The Postwar ZW is a 275 watt power supply. It has 4 outputs, but two primary control handles. With equal load, the handles can handle a max of 135 watts, but effective watts are probably closer to 100. However, I believe a single handle can deliver the full power capacity with no load on the other outputs (maybe somebody can verify that for me).

I don't think brand matters too much. You are probably better off with a newer transformer like those from MTH, because they have electronic breakers.

Your power supply is likely not what caused your engines to fail. 

George

I have used a Z1000 to run my standard gauge tinplate at Christmas for many years with no problems.  This year it was the Black Diamond and in the past is was the Blue Comet,Presidential Special,Banker's Special or others.  

Norm

Thank you to all of you for your important, useful, and valuable knowledge that you graciously share here with me as replies. I'm still such a neophyte (or am I a little babe in the woods) about Standard Gauge... 

Carey,

I would venture to guess that the problem with that set rests with the PS1 electronics.  I have the very same one as you and I have made an arrangement to upgrade to newer electronics.

Norm

George S posted:

..The Postwar ZW is a 275 watt power supply. It has 4 outputs, but two primary control handles. With equal load, the handles can handle a max of 135 watts, but effective watts are probably closer to 100...

The ZW transformer does not divide the power in any fashion, it is shared. Warmed up, the continuous output is 200-220 watts available to any of the 4 outputs(more when cold) in any combination whether it's a 250 or 275 model... all of the power is available from just one handle if you need it.

ADCX Rob posted:

George S posted:

..The Postwar ZW is a 275 watt power supply. It has 4 outputs, but two primary control handles. With equal load, the handles can handle a max of 135 watts, but effective watts are probably closer to 100...

The ZW transformer does not divide the power in any fashion, it is shared. Warmed up, the continuous output is 200-220 watts available to any of the 4 outputs(more when cold) in any combination whether it's a 250 or 275 model... all of the power is available from just one handle if you need it.

Thank you Rob.

That's how I understood it. If using just the one handle, that is over 12 amps of capacity and would be the most power of any of the options mentioned. Add on a PSX-AC electronic breaker and that is high power option. 

George

Carey TeaRose posted:

Having just sent my MTH Millennium Set locomotive back to the dealer, I called him to check how it had been tested. On my layout it literally ran for just about a minute, Tom saw a spark in the engine cab, it died, with a burning metal odor. It apparently has a short.

 

Carey,

If the Protosound board can't be fixed or replaced, they can likely upgrade it to PS2/3 for you. While it will be cost you didn't expect, it would be a happy accident to end up with the latest electronics. 

George

The Z-500 and Z-750 are MTH starter transformers. Any MTH Standard Gauge set will run just fine on a Z-1000.

Carey-you asked, I answered but my Lionel is all "old school" so the older ZWs have power but need the modern circuit breakers to protect all the little thingys they use  today. 

Above is the power cart that I built for use by SGMA at train shows.  On it you will find three Z-4000 transformers, which in SGMA's experience have the voltage, amps, and power needed to handle the most demanding Standard Gauge locomotives.  In addition, and most importantly, the Z-4000 has the internal circuit breakers needed to protect our member's valuable antique locos.  We have successfully used this cart and its transformers at numerous SGMA events including all the recent Trainfest shows.  Over time the Z-4000 transformer has essentially become SGMA's standard. 

I personally recommend you use the Z-4000 transformer.

Bob Nelson

 

F&G RY posted:

The Z-500 and Z-750 are MTH starter transformers. Any MTH Standard Gauge set will run just fine on a Z-1000.

I use one of each of these on my 2 small loops wired through my TIU with no issues. I use another z-500 brick to run the TIU direct so I can have variable voltage. The z-750 is on the outer loop and the 500 on the inner.

navy.seal posted:

Above is the power cart that I built for use by SGMA at train shows.  On it you will find three Z-4000 transformers, which in SGMA's experience have the voltage, amps, and power needed to handle the most demanding Standard Gauge locomotives.  In addition, and most importantly, the Z-4000 has the internal circuit breakers needed to protect our member's valuable antique locos.  We have successfully used this cart and its transformers at numerous SGMA events including all the recent Trainfest shows.  Over time the Z-4000 transformer has essentially become SGMA's standard. 

I personally recommend you use the Z-4000 transformer.

Bob Nelson

 

Bob, your setup is top notch. I don't think Carey needs to go there yet with two loops and mostly modern engines. If Carey wants an upgrade, she can't go wrong with a Z4000.

Love what the SGMA does. 

George

With all these great recommendations I think some of the high rollers should consider some people on the forum have limited  budgets to work with.  I was at the LHS today looking at some of these fancy yard long steam engines with $2,200 price tags.  Plus you need a lot of expensive track to run them on.  Nice but not going to happen.

Sounds like your dealer might have been trying to sell you a Z4000. I have used a Z1000 on each circuit of my TIU for years with no problems. I also have one for my Christmas layout. Love them.

I agree with DOC, the engine shouldn't have had a problem with the Z1000.  I picked up a PS1 400e set at York last year. I'm using the Z1000 and the small handle controller and it works just fine.  I haven't tried it <grin>, but I think I could make that heavy loco "fly off the rails" if I gave it full power !

FWIW, my layout has about 26 feet of track, which is probably kinda small for std gauge. I've got 2 lock-ons connected, one at each end.

In a related effort, I just built a circuit breaker box with 4 breakers wired in from the PW ZW I have.  One for each control and will be using this to add the 2 other loops of O gauge lines and one for the accessories. I also replaced the rollers and terminal screws on the ZW.  I did all this after reading other folks posts. Naturally this site has a great many pople who genuinely want to help, and I really appreciate that.

Keep on rollin,

Mr_P

I really see no reason why your Z1000 should not work. It has a good circuit breaker on it as well. The circuit breaker "looks" like the one on the Z4000 and I'd be surprised if it is not the same style. Probably just a different rating.

On the club modular layout in a 20x32 configuration; I have used my Z1000 w/ DCS RC many times. IMHO too many people have been listening to Capt. Kirk on Star Trek......

Transformers need to be selected based upon actual load requirements, not marketing.

Last weekend we were running 5 trains on two mainlines. We were operating @18 VAC and never exceeded 3.5A. That's less than 65W. A Z-750 likely would have been fine powering either of the mainlines.

If in doubt, put an Ammeter on it. Rich Melvin just posted a nice drawing showing how to hook it up on another thread.

My Z1000 handles all the STD Ga engines just fine. I only have the newer repops and I use a TVS. With that said, my new STD Ga layout will have Z4000s. 

Bob

Here is my full Avatar photo. Because the SGMA is an internet based group there are several power supplies. Someday a layout as big as Dulles will be displayed when all the segments of the group come together for a really big display.

Carey,

   The Z1000 will get the job done for you with out any problem, however this is the smallest Transformer I recommend.   I always way over power all my layouts and acquire good transformers from owners, or directly from the companies when the price is right.  My power station consists of 3 Z4K's, 3 old ZW's and a couple KW's for bumper cars and street cars.  you can see part of the power station in the picture below. The Z1000 is not really the MTH intro transformer, the Z500 & the Z750 are smaller and I do not recommend them or the Lionel CW-80, for running any kind of decent sized layouts.  Hope this helps you might.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Carey,

   The Z1000 will get the job done for you with out any problem, however this is the smallest Transformer I recommend.   I always way over power all my layouts and acquire good transformers from owners, or directly from the companies when the price is right.  My power station consists of 3 Z4K's, 3 old ZW's and a couple KW's for bumper cars and street cars.  you can see part of the power station in the picture below. The Z1000 is not really the MTH intro transformer, the Z500 & the Z750 are smaller and I do not recommend them or the Lionel CW-80, for running any kind of decent sized layouts.  Hope this helps you might.

PCRR/Dave

Good god man... 8 transformers for that one layout ?

If you put some oil on the motors, they work on a lot less juice. 

Carey, 

I am surprised they told you this as someone pointed out the SG sets are shipped with the Z1000.

With that being said, I have used the Z1000s or over 10 years on our large Xmas displays. I have them powering my TIU, and running hi rail and O and STD tinplate. No issues with the DCS running my tinplate with several passenger cars. All accessories were powered separately. Hope this helps.

Joe Gozzo

 

I posted this on another topic in reference to the capabilities of the Z1000

My Z1000 powers 16 PS3 PS2 diesel engines and fixed 1 and fixed 2 at the TIU (aux in Z500) at once and typically runs 2 multi unit consists at the same time. One consist is 4 powered diesels and 39 cars the other 5 powered diesels and 27 cars. This is probably reaching the Z1000 operating envelope.  Video is older and i have since added more diesel units.

Hi Carey, been a while... The transformer being to small isn't what cooked the loco. Too small, it would be slow even at full throttle, and the motor might even get hot eventually. No such thing as "too big" really. The train only uses X amount. The question is can you feed it that much. If you wish the dial could be turned further, then think about a bigger transformer. Also consider pre war Lionel put out 25v and some rare others had more voltage than that. Lionel's extra 5v sort of evolved directly into the whistle controls eventually.

UPDATE: can't believe its been since 01/04/2017 that I first wrote about this... 

Finally, in early January I shipped the Millennium engine back to the vendor, at my expense AND the UPS store personnel talked me into sending it at higher price (faster shipping rate and insured) than how much it cost to have the entire set sent to me!

Long story tooo long... it was a blown power board, and needed a new sound chip too. I think I got some time back an email saying they were upgrading it to a PS 3.0- but I cannot find that email at present.  It now has two replaced boards and "a MTH produced sound chip".

Don't ask me (AAARGH!!!) about WHY its been almost over SEVEN MONTHS on this repair...

AS for the transformer... from an email I received from the vendor,  " I have never heard of anyone running that train with a Z-1000 ".  

I've been sooo very frustrated and disappointed over this, that sad to say but I haven't played with my Std. Gauge layout for months. Its been sitting there collecting dust. Haven't been on the group either. Too many posts for me to keep track of, and my interest has been quite low.

Well, the Millennium engine is supposed to be arriving here tomorrow 08/18/2017. Yesterday, my sweetheart hubby said he'd buy me a Z4000 for my upcoming birthday. Ordered. It should arrive next week. 

Today I started pulling off what I can off the layout table and I will be dusting everything to get the layout ready to play with again.

Hang in there !!  Good to hear from you. Wonder what happened to you.

Hi Ms. Tearose, How nice to see your avatar picture again! I haven't seen you in quite a while. Have I not been hanging out in the right forums or threads?

FrankM

There have just been too many posts showing up in my inbox to be able to keep up with y'all!. Been so bummed about the Millennium engine for so long, that I haven't been playing with my trains for quite a while.

no P-S 3.0, its whatever the set originally had. 

That train with cars will easily run on a Z-1000. 

In 8 months they should have installed PS-3 boards for there poor service.

I think you have the Flyer Presidents set with original Proto-sounds.

Carey, welcome back. I agree inmost instances the Z1000 should have done the job. I hope you get it running nicely soon so you can get back to having fun. Trains can be a good stress reliever after a day at school, at leas that's what a few of my teacher buddies tell me.

Steve "Papa" Eastman

There she is! ...bursting with anticipation once again too! Lol. The Cupie Bride & Groom on my layout have never moved since your wedding; so almost needless to say you folks have crossed my mind a "few" times to say the least. I have never "heard about" a lot of situations that I "know" exist somewhere. You may be the first they had "actually heard of” with THAT engine and a Z1000, but it sounds to me like the vender is doing a little suggestive selling. And I know UPS "Sells" well themselves too..but at least you got peice of mind about the delivery. The Z4000 is going to be great. say goodbye to power being a limiting factor, and start dreaming on what else you might do with those Z1000s. The Z1000 size should'nt be behind those board failures....2 boards too... I'd bet you got a voltage spike. A few TVS might be good investment; almost no such thing as too many, lol. "Matching" brand names isnt needed. If there is good clean power, thats what counts (pure sine wave is what you want) (Early on in command, there were some transformers available that are not "universal" as far as command locos go because they made a chopped sine some boards didnt like, but those predate MTH's modern standard gauge too. If I recall right MRC had great sales about that time, with their transformers being one of the only pure sine supplies available brand new, and at a good price too.

If your vendor is giving you bogus info about the transformer, get a new vendor.  Since you're not dealing with a LHS, you can choose from plenty of reputable mail-order dealers.  (Because so much business is done via the internet and items are shipped via UPS and FedEx, is "mail-order" still a word?) 

F&G RY posted:

That train with cars will easily run on a Z-1000. 

In 8 months they should have installed PS-3 boards for there poor service.

I think you have the Flyer Presidents set with original Proto-sounds.

I wish they had done the upgrade...

I believe the gold Millennium set is indeed the AF President's Special "dipped in gold dust" (my words). As its from 2000, I guessing this is Proto-Sound 1? 

Anybody talk about the good old Z transformers? 250 watts and 25 solid volts. Great for the older SG engines.

jim

Jim Waterman posted:

Anybody talk about the good old Z transformers? 250 watts and 25 solid volts. Great for the older SG engines.

jim

This is an engine with a can motor and should fly around the layout at 11 volts. There are electronics that may fry at 25 volts. I know a lot of Lionel electronics will fry at this voltage. Slow breakers and no TVS protection. A modern engine needs a modern transformer. Plus, that 250 watts is peak. It is only about 160 watts continuous.