Help with My First Layout

Well something's going on. I cleaned the engine wheels & rollers & track and now the train is having more problems w/ the switches where it seems to loose power & shutdown. Wish I had another MTH engine to test this layout but looks like I'll have to wait to speak w/ MTH tech to see what they think. My power drop is right by the 2 switches so I don't think it's an issue where I need other power drops plus I get consistent voltage readings on all areas and the far side of the track w/ a multimeter. The engine has also now shutdown on a straight section so maybe it's something going on w/ the engine itself.

I don't think it's a power issue either. Just letting you know what most folks do.

After it shuts down, what do you have to get it going again? I had to lift mine off the track. Just turning off the power, etc., didn't work. When I lifted it off, set it back down and turned the power back on, it would go through startup, etc., but as soon as I hit the throttle, it would clank the couplers and go through the shut down sequence. This happened no matter where I put it on the layout. I started a thread here and most everyone said to clean the engine and tracks, so I did and no problem since. I don't know how often you've taken the engine and tender apart, but you might want to check to make sure none of the pins in the tether connector got bent. I'm disappointed the cleaning didn't fix it and I'm out of things to check. 

Dave I just finished reading that thread you mentioned. I ran into it while searching for my problem. Mine is not related to track cleaning & engine cleaning because I've done that and issue still continues and is mostly happening when going over the switch.

The engine shutdowns and the only thing that gets it going again is me pushing it an inch or 2 forward or backwards and then it starts up so it's like it hits a dead spot on the track. That's why it would be easier if I had another engine to test with.

Question for you... Does your Christmas Express seem to pause then move a little in very slow speeds like say 1smph or 2smph? Mine moves slowly for a tiny bit then stops and seems to pulse around the track again when moving at very slow slow speeds. This happens regardless of track section so curious if yours runs the same.

I couldn't even move it a little to get it going, I had to lift it off. Since you can push it a bit to get it going and happens on straight tracks too, it sure is beginning to sound like something in the engine.

Yes, mine "stutters" at those really slow speeds too. I haven't started it and then slowed it to 1-2 smph though, I'll have to try that, but I suspect it'll be the same. When I start up, I usually go to about 6 smph and then slowly increase speed.

Yes if you can check & let me know. All I'm doing is trying to troubleshoot and see if my engine is doing something different. I wasn't sure if that stuttering or pausing at slow speed was just mine and also an indication of something wrong with either the engine or track/power. Thanks.

Sorry, I just got back from visiting Dennis Sirrine's garden railroad, so I'll have to remember to check tomorrow. I know it does it when first starting if I start at just 1 smph.

Dennis had the $3700 Big Boy out and some idiot parent set his kid up on the wall where he proceeded to touch the train as it was passing. I saw the engine literally jump and then the front started bouncing around until they got it stopped. Turned out just the pilot wheels had come off, so no real harm done. Fortunately someone happened to be right there to stop it. Dennis had been there and had just left, whew!

Okay Jose, just finished testing. I started my engine at 1 smph and it stuttered. I upped it to 2 smph where it was smooth and slow. I then ran it over my sole turnout at 7 smph without so much as a light flicker. I then slowed it to 2 smph and it still ran smooth and slow. At 1 smph though it started to stuttered again. So it appears to be normal operation, at least for this engine.

I should mention too that my tracks could use cleaning again, so my guess is there is a problem with your engine, perhaps one of those mentioned in my thread on the subject. If you bought it at Summerfield's, hopefully you can exchange it or get it repaired there. I'll be curious to see how MTH diagnoses this over the phone on Tuesday. I wish I knew more about troubleshooting stuff like this, but I'm too new. Sorry to hear you're having problems, but there's still time to make Christmas a success (glass half full, you know).

Jose, any chance you just needed to wait for the cleaning fluid to dissipate from the track and rollers? I think you said you used alcohol, so that should have dissipated pretty quickly. At any rate, I'm happy to hear it seems to be running again.

I'm also happy to hear you're so pleased with the remote's capabilities. It's not a cheap upgrade, but well worth it IMHO. I want a 2nd engine so bad, but it just doesn't make sense yet and I'm sure there will be something new out at this time next year that I might like. I really get the urge after I see a layout like we saw last night, Dennis Sirrine's garden railroad and the G-Scale 4-8-8-4.

Dave you're right I used alcohol so by now that's evaporated but I thought the same thing at first. There are a couple of guys helping me troubleshoot this here & right now they are talking about the way switches work you may loose common/ground depending on the track configuration so that's where things stand right now and I am finding my inside rails are not giving me a voltage reading 100% on the switch and this has something to do w/ their anti derailing feature but still working through this...

Yes I'm very happy w/ the upgrade to full blown DCS. Can't wait to use more of it!

Here are some pictues & videos for you... First 2 are my new Hiawatha engine along w/ a couple of hiawatha passenger cars I got (set will be 5 total when they arrive). Like I said I can't run it in TMCC mode yet cause I need the command base to hook up to the TIU so I opted to test it in conventional mode which since I just got it Saturday and want it to test her.

The 3rd video is an awesome layout from a local train club I recently visited. Membership is $48/year and you get to use their layout & trains or bring your own of course. The layout was amazing! Posting here since you mentioned the one you recently visited. My son loved going to this one. I may join the club, we'll see...

Dave I'm getting help troubleshooting my switch problem and something's come up that I'm wondering if you can "replicate" since you have the same engine. Is your layout by any chance similar to mine where you have 2 O-31 switches almost back to back from each other like in my layout? If not any chance you can recreate that temporarily to see if your X-mas express makes it through w/o problems?

Jose, I only have 1 switch (an O42 RH), so I'm not able to replicate your setup. I do know that when I first connected my switch, the train would sometimes shut down and the switch would no longer function. So I took it back to the shop where they tested it and it worked fine. They said something about the frog rails when I connected my spur track.

I noticed that if I adjusted the spur track angle too far one way or the other, I could replicate the problem. I still don't understand it because 3-rail is supposed to eliminate any shorting problem. The outer 2 rails are negative while the center rail is positive (or vice versa), so the only place where they would come close to shorting is on the switch itself where the points and the frog are in close proximity. AFAIK, the 2 points on the switch are powered by the tracks they touch and that depends on the direction they are set to.

I still don't know how the spur track changes the electricity flow. All I know is that I have to be very careful with the spur track when I connect it. I still think there is something wrong with my turnout and maybe someone here will see this an explain what might be happening. I was going to mention this when you first mentioned your problem, but when it happens to me, the switch gets "stuck" until I toggle the power to the transformer. I don't remember if it trips the transformer or not.

I didn't mention it because it doesn't sound like the same problem, though I suppose it could be related. When the engine passes over the switch, there is a point where the rollers are touching both the center track and the frog rails. If you are traveling straight through, the engine is touching the curved frog rail, but it is not powered because it is not touching the outer rail and there is no short. The same is true with the opposite frog rail when traveling through the turnout section. This is where I get confused because I don't see how adjusting the spur track too far in one direction affects the switch.

I enjoyed the photo and videos/ Next time I'm at the Scottsdale club, I'll try to remember to take a video of it. The one you were at definitely has more levels, but it seems less visitor-friendly than mine. Tracks at mine are all more at the same level, so visitors around the outside can view as much as club members on the inside. If mine were 15 minutes away, I'd definitely join. I just don't think I'd make the 45-60 minutes trek often enough to justify the $100 annual fee for mine.

Dave, I don't think my issue is the same as yours because mine is not shorting. I think if it was the fuse on the power supply would trigger & I should loose track power. With mine it's just the engine loosing power when traveling slowly over it. My guess is that it's related to the pickup rollers and the center rail of the switch. At one section of the switch the center rail stops & meets with a black diamond shape plastic piece and then the center rail continues once again on the other side of that plastic part. It appears to me that the distance between the 2 center rails is just about the same distance as the pickup rollers on the engine and there's a small margin for error there so that if the center rail is a tad short or moved back there could be a situation where neither roller are making contact w/ the center rail and that would shutdown the engine. Unfortunately now that my layout & tree is up, it's very hard for me to reach back there to take a closer look so I may just have to live w/ this until after the holidays. Right now the train is making it over the switches at speeds as slow as 7 smph so not a big problem since most of the time the train is going well above that speed but I still want to make sure I don't have a problem w/ the switch, engine, etc...

I agree, Jose, but I thought I'd mention it just so you know about it. I think you're right about the rollers. I've never looked to see how much adjustment there is for the rollers, if there is any. If it's only happening on 1 switch, then it's also possible the rails are just spread apart enough on that switch for both rollers to lose contact at slow speeds. The solution might be to adjust the center rails a bit. If it's happening on both switches, then the rollers might need adjusting.

I'm planning on calling MTH this week to hear what they say. I ran the train pulling 4 cars at 5 smph and no problems. I left it running at that speed for about 20+ minutes and when I came back it was still going so not sure what to make of this.

Just be sure to tell them everything you tried, including the cleaning, how and what you used, etc. I know a lot of folks have opinions on what to use, but I don't think I've ever seen a reason NOT to use something. For example, people say to use denatured alcohol and not regular alcohol, but I've never seen someone say why. Had my problem not been dirt, I probably wouldn't be thinking about dirt, but I just don't have enough experience with DCS to dismiss it. There could have been something on the switch in just the right place that momentum at 7 smph didn't carry the engine through it. But then I believe you said it happened on both switches and the probably of residue on both is pretty high. I can't imagine what it could have been on the engine that would magically clear up by itself. Can't wait to hear what MTH has to say, especially if you don't have the problem again before you contact them.

Happy that your challenges seem to have worked themselves out!

We ended up moving the track and wife has started to decorate.  I'm adding some elevation to the end of the outer loop so she's carving some mountain scape.  Here are a couple of pics under construction

Very nice Robby. Looks like you need to shim the incline there on the end though, appears to be a dip where the 2 tracks connect. I realize this is under construction, but I wanted to mention it anyway in case you hadn't noticed it. It could just be the photo making it look like a dip too.

I really like that layout design and thought seriously about doing it myself this year, but other things got in the way of me expanding my table enough for it and all my buildings. I hope you'll post a photo of the finished product. Nothing spruces up the holidays like a good old-fashioned model railroad.

If I had a basement there is no doubt it would have at least a perimeter track.

BTW, you can always sneak the Hiawatha out when your wife goes shopping, etc. Better yet, I'd just buy something else for March and get it out now.

Oh, forgot to add that I'm sorry MTH didn't come up with anything positive, but I didn't expect them to after you first mentioned things were running again.

I didn't tell MTH it's been running fine but I just don't want to tear down the layout or send the engine in right now. I'll wait till after the tree comes down in January.

You're not helping me w/ being patient on that Hiawatha although that puppy IS coming out when my wife & son are not around!

I'm going to tattle.