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Recommend Someone to Do an ERR Conversion for Me (WAS: Help with Williams Hudson - Not Running)

palallinpalallinOGR Forum Member

For Christmas, I gave my elder son a Williams Die-cast, Scale Hudson Cab #5205, Stock # CS100W.

Some previous owner had upgraded it with Ott Machine Works sound.

Other than a tendency to pull apart the tether connector between the engine and tender, it ran fine for several days.

Then, one day, it stopped running.  The lights continue to come on, and the sound continues to function:  the chuffs apparently are controlled by voltage because, though the engine sits still, the chuffs respond to the throttle.  I have included pics of the guts of the tender and the motor.

If the tether is disconnected from the tender, the lights work, but no sound and no movement (this was true prior to the current malfunction).  Now, even with the tether connected, no movement.  The flywheel turns, and turning it moves the wheels with no problem, so the mechanism is not jammed.

The collector wire from the center rollers on the engine goes through the tether to the tender, and three wires come back to the motor.  One is soldered to a connection on the case of the motor, and two are soldered to insulate connects, one on either side.  I found out accidentally that, if a connection is made between the insulated terminal on the engineer's side of the motor and the case, the motor will run.  This is NOT true is the same bridge is made between the case and the connector on the fireman's side.

From this, I deduce that the motor itself is working.  Is this a safe deduction?

There must be a disconnect between the power and the motor, but I don't know if the problem is ion the board in the tender or the wiring.  I confess that I am not up to tracing the circuits in the boards.  I have fiddled with the tether connector while applying power to the track, but without any hint that a loose connection exists there.

I assume that one of the boards is the sound board and the other one is the electronic reversing unit.  I have included two pics, one of the tender guts and one of the motor.  The only documentation on the engine I have is a download of the manual from the WBB version, and it shows nothing of the original electronics, and so I don't know exactly what I have here.

 

Any advice will be appreciated; I would like to get my son's engine back in operation.  I can troubleshoot the older stuff, but this baffles me.

 

Thanks for any help.Motor [1)Tender Guts

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Last edited by palallin
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D&H 65D&H 65OGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBER

Trace the two wires from the speaker assembly back to the board it attaches too; I suspect the upper board is the sound system and the lower board is the motor driver/directional board.

You mentioned the engine kept getting the tether pulled out during operation, suggesting the tether is actually too short as received for reliable engine operation. All of this "jerking" on the tether could have broken some motor driver wiring internal to the wire insulation. You'll have to get a digital/analog ohmmeter out and trace continuity on the three wires in the tether that go to the motor from the driver board all the way to the motor. I bet you'll find an issue there somewhere.

Hope this helps.

P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member

Your Williams engine does not look like any I have seen. Like forum member D&H 65 mentions trace the wires with an ohm meter to see if one of the wires broke. 

I had a Pennsylvania S-2 steam engine about 9 years ago and the sound system was separate from the engine and was in the tender, absolutely no wires between engine & tender, tender had it's own pick-up roller wheels. I bought my Pennsy engine from an independent Williams dealer a few years before Williams was sold to Bachmann.

Your tender seems to have an after market set-up that somebody installed and removed the original Williams sound system. The original sound system could have been the "Station Sounds" from Williams Crown Edition time.

Lee Fritz

Mike DMike DOGR Forum Member

It looks like everything is tender mounted and the only wires going to the locomotive are the motor wires. This is very possibly where your problem is. I would check the wire harness on the locomotive side where it enters the connector. The previous owner looks like he wrapped a LOT of electrical tape around the harness, but I don't see anything on the back of the connector that would act as a strain relief, so you may have a broken wire there. I had to modify the harness on mine right out of the box because the heat shrink was too rigid and caused the tender to derail. I also had an issue with a broken wire and had to reterminate it. All of that tape is unnecessary. A small length of heat shrink and some form of strain relief will help to eliminate future problems.

RoyBoyRoyBoyOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

The tether is four wires:

-AC hot (center rail)

-AC common (outside rails)

-Motor brush 1

-Motor brush 2

The most likely problem is in the tether wires, or the tether plug. The sloppy repair should guide you right to that spot.

The second most likely problem is the rectifier bridge (black plastic square thing with mounting screw through it) on the bottom board. Some boards only have one rectifier bridge and the later ones have two.

Take all that crappy tape off the tether and see if one of the wires is broken, especially where it goes into the plug. Then see if the tender mounted plug has a broken connection on it.

There is no need to trace circuits on the board, so don't let it intimidate you.

 

Last edited by RoyBoy
P phillyreadingOGR Forum Member
palallin posted:

OK, I'm back to report:

The tether is toast:  one wire is broken completely through--as suspected--but all three others have gaps in the insulation and broken wires. 

So I need to get a new 4-pin tether.  Any suggestions on where a feller might find one?

Have you looked at either Home Depot or Ace Hardware for a cable that matches the size? You can buy it by the foot if you know what size cable or bring a piece of the cable to match it in size.

Lee Fritz

palallinpalallinOGR Forum Member

OK, over this Christmas season, I finally found time to install the tether I purchased.  The result was ZERO improvement.  In fact, now the sound quality has degraded, and the motor tries to run but then trips the breaker.

So I have decided to pay to have the thing converted to TMCC.  Can you recommend someone who does good work and might be willing to do it in the near future?

D500D500OGR Forum Member

On Electric Railroad's (ERR) website is a list of their service centers, under "Contact Us".

The Williams die-cast Hudson is a straightforward loco. I put ERR Cruise Commander (DO specify the Cruise Commander, as this loco has poor, zoom-zoom gearing; the cruise will civilize it) in mine. It even has  nice plastic coal load (love those) that makes antenna installation a 30-second procedure - just like on a plastic diesel. (The smoke unit can be left on direct track power.)

You might try it yourself, though you may have to get another tether (they sell those), it seems.

If you do decide to try it, be patient. Read the pertinent instructions. Follow the drawings and photos. It will take time. It gets easier. Then you can start sticking this stuff in all sorts of locos.  

palallinpalallinOGR Forum Member

As much as working on these makes me nervous, I might have given it a try, but our next academic term is about to start, and I will be putting in 'way too many hours for the next 32 weeks straight.  Time pressure + taut nerves before even starting sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.  Paying George to do it will be well worth it to me.

palallinpalallinOGR Forum Member
GGG posted:

Steve, I have sent some e-mails with no reply so I am not sure if they are getting lost.  Can you send me one with phone number so we can communicate.  Thanks, G

Apparently, I am not getting them.  I have sent new email as requested with an alternate email and a phone number.  Please let me know if you got them.

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