2-Rail Home Layouts - How Many Really Exist?

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks Ryan, Jim & Myles for your posts.

I have been inspired after seeing the many post, and I have started my layout planning.  I always intended to have a double track Mainline and am leaning towards one track being 2R and the other 3R.  I live in an apartment, so am limited with layout size, but believe I may have come-up with a solution.

At first didn't think it would be possible, but have created a 2R Mainline with 54" radius curves.   I am not sure if this will accommodate the (2) 2R Steam engines I have purchased, but am hopeful.

The adjoining 3R Mainline has 0-99 and 0-117 curves.  That should be able to run everything 3R I have.

Now the question; am I willing to do what it takes, to "modify" the apartment?  Intention would be to undo the mods when I move out, "God willing".  On the other hand, I have gotten to know the maintenance guys here, and sometimes apartments have been vacated or evicted in far worse shape.

Please feel free to "cheer me on", or let me know if 54" Radius is still too tight.  2R Locos I have are Williams, I have not been able to find specs.  I have found that similar Weavers say they would run on 36" Radius.

Every steam engine that 3rd Rail has made in the era since Scott took over will run on 54" Radius. If you have to have tight curves like I do you would be surprised what will run on 36" Radius (Weaver models) and even some that run on 24" Radius (smaller switchers and such). Now of course it won't look as good, but what many people fail to realize is that it's possible to use hidden curves of tight radius to fit your space while using broad curves in the visible areas. Get creative and experiment.

I recently purchased old Atlas 24"r radiused turnouts on ebay that were made in the 70's just to see what would work with them. So far no problems with my 0-4-0, 0-6-0, SW900, GP9, 50' Boxcars, and 60' passenger cars.

Thank You Tom and Jonathan, your input makes me feel confident going ahead with my planned layout.  I am still tweaking it, once I have something substantial, I will put up a post showing my "ambitious" plan.  Being an retired Mechanical Engineer, I believe in get as many bugs worked out as possible, before I start cutting material.

@myles, these are some fantastic videos you are taking! I'd encourage you to start a youtube channel and share your videos there so that they can reach a wider audience. Your work is exemplary and deserves to be seen by more people to see what is possible in this scale!

Hi Dave.... when I string my telephone poles, I lightly pull the ''elastic thread '' along the '' base'' of the molded  insulators and apply a dab of super glue then give that a shot of hardner. If the lines over time become ''droopy or hanging'' in appearance, (for what ever reason touching, reaching over or accidentally hooking one), I just clip the material and reglue inplace trimming off the excess material.   Also, I like using 'spandex' thread in three colors.   A green, black and rust/brown color.    

@mwb posted:

I've got a car or 2 lettered for the Potomac Valley in my inventory.  Coincidence, a common name, or something else?

Really!? There was a real Potomac Valley Railroad that existed from 1895-1910 before being absorbed into the Western Maryland. It was west of Hagerstown and interchanged with the WM. That was my inspiration, and in my scenario it continued to exist as a subsidiary of the WM and also interchanges with the B&O near Cherry Run, WV.

I grew up in what’s considered the Potomac Valley of MD which is why the name has particular meaning for me.

if you ever want to sell those, let me know. I’m always at the Strasburg show and would love to expand my private road fleet.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks Ryan, Jim & Myles for your posts.

I have been inspired after seeing the many post, and I have started my layout planning.  I always intended to have a double track Mainline and am leaning towards one track being 2R and the other 3R.  I live in an apartment, so am limited with layout size, but believe I may have come-up with a solution.

At first didn't think it would be possible, but have created a 2R Mainline with 54" radius curves.   I am not sure if this will accommodate the (2) 2R Steam engines I have purchased, but am hopeful.

The adjoining 3R Mainline has 0-99 and 0-117 curves.  That should be able to run everything 3R I have.

Now the question; am I willing to do what it takes, to "modify" the apartment?  Intention would be to undo the mods when I move out, "God willing".  On the other hand, I have gotten to know the maintenance guys here, and sometimes apartments have been vacated or evicted in far worse shape.

Please feel free to "cheer me on", or let me know if 54" Radius is still too tight.  2R Locos I have are Williams, I have not been able to find specs.  I have found that similar Weavers say they would run on 36" Radius.

You should be able to run most things on a 54” radius. 54” is my minimum curve and as mentioned any of the Sunset/3rd Rail 2-rail locomotives will take that (I have the B&O 2-10-2 and 4-8-2 for instance). I also run big Overland 2-10-0’s and the C&LS 4-6-6-4 with no issues. My N&W J is Williams and runs great on it.

The only thing I’ve found won’t take my 54” is rigid framed brass 4-8-4’s, like the C&LS. As mentioned by others, if it’s the newer brass it likely has blind drivers and is no issue.

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

You should be able to run most things on a 54” radius. 54” is my minimum curve and as mentioned any of the Sunset/3rd Rail 2-rail locomotives will take that (I have the B&O 2-10-2 and 4-8-2 for instance). I also run big Overland 2-10-0’s and the C&LS 4-6-6-4 with no issues. My N&W J is Williams and runs great on it.

The only thing I’ve found won’t take my 54” is rigid framed brass 4-8-4’s, like the C&LS. As mentioned by others, if it’s the newer brass it likely has blind drivers and is no issue.

Thanks for the information.

The (2) 2R Williams locos I have at this time are a 4-6-2 Pacific and NYC 4-8-4 Niagara.  I wasn't too worried about the 4-6-2, but the 4-8-4?  If Niagara runs OK, then would like to find a Williams 2R 2-8-2 Mikado.

Not sure if your "J" has blind drivers my "Niagara" does NOT.

Hey Jim. I would think your Williams locos will run just fine. My N&W J doesn’t have blind drivers.

@mwb posted:

I've got a car or 2 lettered for the Potomac Valley in my inventory.  Coincidence, a common name, or something else?

Could be a car lettered for the old Hagerstown model railroad club. They had an O scale layout when they were located at the Hagerstown fairgrounds that was called The Potomac Valley Railroad.

@David Eisinger posted:

Could be a car lettered for the old Hagerstown model railroad club. They had an O scale layout when they were located at the Hagerstown fairgrounds that was called The Potomac Valley Railroad.

I didn’t know that Dave! That’s awesome. Thanks for sharing that.

@David Eisinger posted:

Could be a car lettered for the old Hagerstown model railroad club. They had an O scale layout when they were located at the Hagerstown fairgrounds that was called The Potomac Valley Railroad.

I visited there once and remember more of their telephone-based dispatch system than the rr itself. To be honest, at this time I only remember a few of the late-40s WECo* 3nn series (sometimes referred to as "Lucy phones" due to their prominence on the  I Love Lucy tv show) phones in use. One was a red WECo 302 in Pekin(g) Red; a very desire able color for a collector today. Here is my WECo ivory 302:

*WECo = Western Electric Company, manufacturing and supply unit of the Bell System

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

Hey Jim. I would think your Williams locos will run just fine. My N&W J doesn’t have blind drivers.

Thanks Ryan!  I am going to continue to move ahead with my layout plan.

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thanks Ryan!  I am going to continue to move ahead with my layout plan.

I look forward to seeing your progress!

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

I look forward to seeing your progress!

I will post my layout plan when completed.  Want to start building this fall.

@myles posted:

Here's another view of train 402 at Clanwilliam,  running along the shore line of Shuswap Lake.     I have a foot of extra room along this curve, so i'm going to widen the shore line with12 more inches of water. The milky green water effect will allow for a better foreground when photographing: along this area,  without affecting the Isle space.      

Great scene Myles!

John

Here’s another. I’ll be filming a few more in the next month or so and will post those as well.

Warbonnets getting ready to head out for the evening.

John

John, what a nice shot!

Spectacular John! Wow they look 👍

@PRRMP54 posted:

I visited there once and remember more of their telephone-based dispatch system than the rr itself. To be honest, at this time I only remember a few of the late-40s WECo* 3nn series (sometimes referred to as "Lucy phones" due to their prominence on the  I Love Lucy tv show) phones in use. One was a red WECo 302 in Pekin(g) Red; a very desire able color for a collector today. Here is my WECo ivory 302:

*WECo = Western Electric Company, manufacturing and supply unit of the Bell System

The rotary dial phone came along in the early 20's. "I Love Lucy" originally aired late 1951. I worked in the telephone industry for 30 years, and we called them desk sets.  Lucy phone????

ECI

PS: They were also made by Stromberg-Carlson

As promised, another video of another 2-rail layout. This is my friend Ken Kime's Western Maryland layout.

Been a while, but here's a few pictures of my portable Mexicali Grande layout I take to shows !   It's all 6 ft modules about 30 inches deep.  Scenery is all hot and dry  apart from a few palms in the tourist area.    Photos vary from the layout as you'd approach it.  The passenger depot with musical entertainment .  A vegetable shipper warehouse.   And a few exaggerated movie themes !! ( one of them being from Mr. Spielberg's first action movies! )

My brother Doug's layout based on the Lehigh Valley.  Located in North Palm Beach, FL.

https://youtu.be/15PQ1IvBFvM?feature=shared

I wish we had a 2 rail O scale club in central Indiana still.  But without that, I put this together today as I wanted to run my old AHM/Rivarossi IHB 0-8-0.  Table is 4x7 with a bit of an extension on the front to support the 24" radius AHM sectional track.  Switching only layouts were never my cup of tea, as many times i just want to watch the engine orbit the layout while I get lost in my thoughts. We plan to move in a few years, next place will have a bigger train room for a nicer 2 rail layout.   AD

@MainLine Steam posted:

Thank You Tom and Jonathan, your input makes me feel confident going ahead with my planned layout.  I am still tweaking it, once I have something substantial, I will put up a post showing my "ambitious" plan.  Being an retired Mechanical Engineer, I believe in get as many bugs worked out as possible, before I start cutting material.

GO FOR IT! LOL!

I'm running 2 rail Sunset, Atlas and GGD here on 54" radius. Watch the easements into and out of curves.  My key advice is to keep it simple. I've revised my track plan many times, each time removing something and the overall effect improves each time.  I cannot recommend enough Lance Mindheim's book 'Model railroading as art'. His views on 'dead space' are fantastic and turn the layout from a model into something special. Good luck!

The Route of the Black Diamond is alive and well in NPB, FL.

One more.

@LV_DPR posted:

One more.

Is that a LV 4-8-4? Who did one in O scale?

And another. Roy has a really exceptional layout.

The Wyoming 4–8-4 is scratch built.  I think he started out with an old All Nation boiler.

@LV_DPR posted:

The Wyoming 4–8-4 is scratch built.  I think he started out with an old All Nation boiler.

That’s outstanding. I’ve always liked those LV T class locomotives.

Ryan,

I had a 2 rail layout in my previous house where I used 48 inch minimum radius.    I could run my USH PRR locos on it with not problem.    This included a 2-8-2 and a 4-6-2.     Also any 4 axles diesels. 

On my current layout I used 52 inch minium radius but I do have a branch line with 48 inch.     I have tested the Sunset 2-10-2 on my layout and it ran fine.    I have run a few of the USH and MG Bershires.     I now have a sunset PRR 2-10-2 and it runs fine on these curves included the branch.    I have a fleet of GGD 4 axle diesels and they run fine on the branch and main.    What surprised me was that the GGD E7, Alco PA-PB, and EMD SD9, all 6 axle, run just fine even on the branch.    I also have a fleet of the GGD heavyweight passenger cars, and they will go up the branch too.   I have quite a few smaller 2-8-0s and such and they will go around tighter than 48.

So 52-54 inch should work for a lot of stuff.    My guess is they will not work with a large 4-8-4 or a PRR T1 4-4-4-4.

I did some testing for a buddy some years ago, who wanted to do a small layout and needed  tight curves.    I found that Weaver RS3s (his chosen loco) and 40 ft cars would go around 24 inch radius.    They problem was coupler swing.    Kadees in their standard box, would not swing far enough for a curve like that.    They would have to be mounted with a lot more swing.    My guess is many 4 axle diesels would go around a curve that sharp or nearly so.   The old All Nation catalogue I have lists minimum radius for their steamers in  most cases around 40 inches.

As for the Williams locos,  you did not say what they were.    I have seen their mikados running on 48 inch radius with no issues.

Here's another. Brian Scace has a very nice shelf layout that's fun to operate and is in a modest sized basement.

@myles posted:

Been a while, but here's a few pictures of my portable Mexicali Grande layout I take to shows !   It's all 6 ft modules about 30 inches deep.  Scenery is all hot and dry  apart from a few palms in the tourist area.    Photos vary from the layout as you'd approach it.  The passenger depot with musical entertainment .  A vegetable shipper warehouse.   And a few exaggerated movie themes !! ( one of them being from Mr. Spielberg's first action movies! )

This is great work.  Your depiction of the desert really works.  What did you use to make Saguaro cactus?

Ryan, I watched Al Pugliese Trains the other night. Sounds like after building all those O scale structures. He’s taking the plunge into O.  He didn’t rule out 3 rail though. He went home with a Really Nice coaling tower. What a great centerpiece to a future layout.

Ed,

John's article inspired me too.

Ed

@Dave_C posted:

Ryan, I watched Al Pugliese Trains the other night. Sounds like after building all those O scale structures. He’s taking the plunge into O.  He didn’t rule out 3 rail though. He went home with a Really Nice coaling tower. What a great centerpiece to a future layout.

Yes he is. I’ve been a bad influence….lol. He’s still debating between 2-rail and 3-rail. Yes, that coaling tower is really nice. It’s even more impressive in person.

For SWRR and others.....firstly i'd like to apologize for my absence from checking the various topics I jump into and answering any inquiries you may have.   The question placed was in reference to the construction methods I use in my desert scenery on the portable Mexicali Grande layout and it's cactus.   The first ones I scratch built were simply household copper wire lengths stripped of their insulation.    Working from one straight length I then soldered  a couple ''cross arms'' to the main stem, then 3M spray glued the armature.   While tacky, I dropped one in a bag of woodland scenics ''Static Grass'', a dull white- ish green color and shook it coating the stem.   There's not much body to them so you will need to repeat the process a few times till your happy with the thickness and appearance.  

Now, where was I ?   The last few months i've been busy helping a private tourist train operator get things set up and ready for operation this coming May!   So far we have 23 ex CNR coaches, including baggage, coaches, sleepers, ( for those who want to enjoy a private compartment or bedroom ride),a diner and club cars.    The operation is  the Eastend Tourist railway owned by Mr. Gary Southgate. Recently, preperations are being completed inside the cars as well a painting car and loco bodies .   Like a giant model railroad !    That's Bud , a member of our local Railroad club and myself infront of Ex - CNR FP-7 .    During my work with CP Rail in Moose Jaw, we had the opportunity to run one of the last FP's for VIA  Rail before the ''new power'' arrived.    Here's a few pictures....

I was "shocked" (in a good way) that this topic was still going.  I took a 6 months hiatus from the forum, glad to back on here again.  Anyhow am once again overwhelmed by the outstanding layouts shown and the great photos and videos documenting them.  Due to all the fantastic contributions, this thread has become a great resource and inspiration for myself and hopefully many others.

On a personal note I actually was able to figure out a way to get 60R curves on my layout, but then I stepped back.  To do so would require knocking a number of holes through the walls of my apartment.  However, I now have decided that rather than renew my lease, planning to relocate.  Therefore layout is on hold.

Again thank you all for your contributions, and keep them coming, it is great to see all the beautiful work, by just scrolling through this thread!

Here’s another….