In the description it states that a fireman would shovel several tons of coal.  Larger steam locomotives mostly had Archimedes screws, did they not ? 

Dan Padova

 

"In the course of my life I have had to eat my words, and I must confess it was a wholesome diet"..........Winston Churchill

                                                                                                                                        

Dan Padova posted:

In the description it states that a fireman would shovel several tons of coal.  Larger steam locomotives mostly had Archimedes screws, did they not ? 

Yup, they sure did.  Steam engines finally got so big that the firemen could not keep up with the shoveling.  My Lionel LC+ 2-8-2 Mikado has a little round die-cast screw protrusion on the back of the cab, right below floor level, representing this.

Paul  

Ship Rock Island ROCKET FREIGHT

 

2 Rails?  3 Rails?  Doesn't matter, I can't count that high anyway.

I love the smell of fresh-brewed creosote first thing in the morning.

Dan Padova posted:

In the description it states that a fireman would shovel several tons of coal.  Larger steam locomotives mostly had Archimedes screws, did they not ? 

They were called “Stokers.” 

They were not “automatic” stokers. There was absolutely nothing “automatic” about running a stoker.

Rich Melvin

Rich Melvin posted:
Dan Padova posted:

In the description it states that a fireman would shovel several tons of coal.  Larger steam locomotives mostly had Archimedes screws, did they not ? 

They were called “Stokers.” 

They were not “automatic” stokers. There was absolutely nothing “automatic” about running a stoker.

I'm not sure what type of stoker you are thinking about.  I thought a screw ran from the tender to the firebox.  The coal would fall into the screw chute and be pulverized as it was move up the screw and into the firebox.  I believe the screw was powered by a small steam boiler or possibly mechanically by some other device on the locomotive.  It sounds automatic to me.

Dan Padova

 

"In the course of my life I have had to eat my words, and I must confess it was a wholesome diet"..........Winston Churchill

                                                                                                                                        

Dan Padova posted:
Rich Melvin posted:
Dan Padova posted:

In the description it states that a fireman would shovel several tons of coal.  Larger steam locomotives mostly had Archimedes screws, did they not ? 

They were called “Stokers.” 

They were not “automatic” stokers. There was absolutely nothing “automatic” about running a stoker.

I'm not sure what type of stoker you are thinking about.  I thought a screw ran from the tender to the firebox.  The coal would fall into the screw chute and be pulverized as it was move up the screw and into the firebox.  I believe the screw was powered by a small steam boiler or possibly mechanically by some other device on the locomotive.  It sounds automatic to me.

Not really.  A stoker does the work of the shoveling by getting the coal into the firebox.  You are in charge of controlling the rate, which is constantly changing depending on what the engineer is doing on the other side of the cab.  And remember, what you do takes a minute or two for the effects to be realized.  Depending on the railroad, the engineer and the train behind you, it's a fairly constant job.

Let me say it again...THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING “AUTOMATIC” ABOUT A STEAM LOCOMOTIVE STOKER.

The fireman has to manually control the speed of the screw to feed coal into the fire to match what the engineer is doing, he has to manually adjust the stoker jets to place the coal where he wants it on the firebed and he has to manually adjust the feed water pump and/or injector to keep the water level right for the work the engine is doing at the time.

None of that is done automatically.

Rich Melvin

SilverChief posted:

The photo and caption of the 5001 came from the book BELEN. Link provided in post. Not part of orignal article. Blueprint of the 5001 show it had a Front Delivery Standard Stoker.

Baldwin5001Blueprint

 

Stoker, schmoker.  That's only half the puzzle.

The print also says it had a "Foam Meter".  Was this to measure the trackside railfan's excitability as the engine went past them? 

Paul  

Ship Rock Island ROCKET FREIGHT

 

2 Rails?  3 Rails?  Doesn't matter, I can't count that high anyway.

I love the smell of fresh-brewed creosote first thing in the morning.

Mixed Freight posted:

The print also says it had a "Foam Meter".  Was this to measure the trackside railfan's excitability as the engine went past them? 

LOL!    Good one!

The "Foam Meter" would help the fireman identify if the boiler water was foaming. This was a potentially dangerous condition because when it happened, the water turned all light and foamy. That's not conducive to conducting heat away from the sheets or making steam. Water with a high level of undissolved solids could cause this.

When it happened, the cure was to back off the throttle and turn on the feed water pump (and the injector, if needed) to get a lot of cold, fresh water into the boiler as fast as possible. That would temporarily drop the steam pressure and put the boiler through some thermal stresses, but it was better than losing the crown sheet and an explosion!

Rich Melvin

Rich Melvin posted:
Mixed Freight posted:

The print also says it had a "Foam Meter".  Was this to measure the trackside railfan's excitability as the engine went past them? 

LOL!    Good one!

The "Foam Meter" would help the fireman identify if the boiler water was foaming. This was a potentially dangerous condition because when it happened, the water turned all light and foamy. That's not conducive to conducting heat away from the sheets or making steam. Water with a high level of undissolved solids could cause this.

When it happened, the cure was to back off the throttle and turn on the feed water pump (and the injector, if needed) to get a lot of cold, fresh water into the boiler as fast as possible. That would temporarily drop the steam pressure and put the boiler through some thermal stresses, but it was better than losing the crown sheet and an explosion!

 Yeah, I highly suspected it had something to do with some sort of boiler water foaming problem.  Thanks for explaining it further, always good to learn more.  

Paul  

Ship Rock Island ROCKET FREIGHT

 

2 Rails?  3 Rails?  Doesn't matter, I can't count that high anyway.

I love the smell of fresh-brewed creosote first thing in the morning.

One thing I have learned about steam locomotive is that they.Do not always leave a cloud behind.The modern steam locomotive can operate with out putting out smoke.I have seen this in person with 611.I have seen steam locomotive  261 running at speed leaving very little smoke.At times you had to really look hard to see it.I was mislead by t.v. and movies.

seaboardm2 posted:

One thing I have learned about steam locomotive is that they.Do not always leave a cloud behind.The modern steam locomotive can operate with out putting out smoke.I have seen this in person with 611.I have seen steam locomotive  261 running at speed leaving very little smoke.At times you had to really look hard to see it.I was mislead by t.v. and movies.

TV and movies go for visual effect and should not be used as an accurate portrayal of steam back in the day.  Just as we would make smoke for a photo line at IRM.

Black smoke is unburned fuel, be it coal or oil.

That said, sometimes making smoke is unavoidable, but a good fireman runs a clean stack for as long as possible by communicating with and anticipating the engineer.

Rusty

An efficient fireperson will fire in anticipation of the engineer's needs at any given point in the journey where, for example, a grade may require more throttle. Over working the engine can also literally suck the incomplete combustion out the stack. Firing any fuel, whether oil or coal, requires an ideal balance between fuel and water consumption and steam pressure. A good engineer works in concert with his/her fireperson to maintain operating pressure and reduction of excessive stack gases aka incomplete combustion. It is no wonder D.C. Buell devotes quite a few pages to firing and combustion in his landmark tome, Basic Steam Locomotive Maintenance, a MUST read for anyone interested in this subject!

vita sine litteris mors est  (Seneca)

I also have a most excellent pamphlet on oil firing which I acquired in 2000 at the Roaring Camp and Big Trees Railroad gift shop, but will have to check my bookshelf for the title and author. Finally, I should state that both oil and coal stoker firing requires CAREFUL adjustment of the firing valves to insure EVEN distribution of fuel to the firing table or grates for the most complete combustion of said fuels. It is partially art and also applied science!

vita sine litteris mors est  (Seneca)

Add Reply

Likes (1)
trumptrain
Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
×