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How would I use the Lionel fastrack accessory activation set to activate a Dept 56 accessory which plugs into a standard household 110v outlet?  Also considering various strings of Christmas lights under the snow fabric to switch on as a train passes.  I'm an amateur with electric stuff.  Thanks

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Generally I wouldn't recommend using 120 volt household electricity to power accessories but rather to replace the lights and such with 12 volt ones.  That said:

 

The simplest method would be to use a relay.  A relay is, more or less, an electronically controlled switch, allowing you to use a low voltage source to operate a high voltage/high current device.  You would take the output from the activation unit to the coil of the relay, then connect the 120VAC supply to the contacts on the relay as a power switch to the device.  I would place the relay inside a standard outlet box as well as an outlet to plug the devices into so that you don't have any exposed 120VAC wires about.  As for the relays there are many good parts suppliers around, though most on the forums here seem to prefer Digi-key.  I tend to go with automotive relays as they are easily available at auto parts stores, or for much less $$$ at junk yards.  

(Edit: so as to cover the bases, Automotive relays are not normally rated for 120VAC use.  You should use a relay designed for household electricity, as one designed specifically for automotive use MAY have closer spacing between contacts internally which then MAY arc causing failure at high voltage. I've never had one fail, but that is my experience and I'd hate to see someone have an issue.  I'd also add to above that I recommend putting a fuse in line such that a short of any kind won't cause much damage.  

 

Feel free to contact me for more information or such.  

Last edited by JohnGaltLine

I do not like using 120 volts directly on my layout. I use low voltage lights between 12 to 18 volts.

You could buy a string of battery powered lights at a dollar store and use a small DC power pack and a relay to operate your light effects.

Could you swap out the Department 56 light for a lower voltage one? I'm sure somebody sells a C-7 type or Candelabra bulb that uses less voltage.

 

Lee Fritz

Products that have "optical isolation" are used in industrial environments.

 

Two companies that I have used in the past are Opto22, and Grayhill. The low voltage connections are on one side of a board, and the high voltage on the other. But even these products are meant to be inside a metal cabinet. I would not want them around children.

 

I have come across products I would consider safe for the house, and of course now I can't remember names.

 

You might find something at smarthome.com.

 

You also might be able to find something that is wireless, but it wouldn't be cheap (at the moment). Seems anytime you want to do something that is a bit out of the ordinary the price jumps up.

 

So for instance, if you want to click on your smartphone and have a light come on, no problem. But if you want to sense a DC voltage and have an AC socket come on, for some reason, it just gets pricey.

Find the voltage of the dept 56 accessory and make a power supply. Run the power supply off your train transformer.  Most likely it runs off a walwart.  That way you dont have to plug it into the wall. Then use a relay shown here

 

LINK

 

Some relays (not the automotive relays mentioned) are capable of switching 110 volts but you would have to protect the 110 volt lines from access. I would not recommend it on a layout. Much easier to make a low voltage supply as mentioned.

 

Dale H

Last edited by Dale H
Originally Posted by Garrett76:

I'm looking for a plug and play option.  I do not want to make something that could be a fire hazard

I am not aware of any plug-and-play solution requiring no additional wiring, soldering, assembly, etc.  IMO, a manufacturer would not go thru the regulatory-approval hassles for such a wall-outlet device specific for O-gauge isolated-rail accessory activation.

 

If messing with 110V wiring is the issue, perhaps one of these consumer devices could be the basis of a cobbled-together switch that does not require working with wall-outlet voltages.

 

controlled outlet options

These run $10-20 each at a home improvement store.  The trick is then how to "relay" the activation signal from your Fastrack detector to the outlet switch. 

 

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Originally Posted by Gilly@N&W:
Originally Posted by Dale H:

Some relays (not the automotive relays mentioned)

 

Dale H


Point of discussion; the relay I provided a link to is not an automotive relay.

Gilly,I Was referring to this

 

"Garrett,

It can be done. I did so years ago using a series of insulated 12v auto relays. I wish that I could remember. My memory is gone these days. Someone will come forward, trust me."

 

 All there is is lighted buildings or whatever etc,the easiest way I know is just to convert them to low voltage directly. I could be wrong but I doubt if 110 volts goes into the device. Most likely there is a wall transformer not regulated DC. Use a bridge and proper voltage off your transformer and run them directly is my take on it.

 

If you want to keep the Walwart,break and switch the low voltage line with relay contacts.

 

If you want to use 110 you can, you should use metal boxes and mark them 110 volts. Any wire 110 wire in separate conduit. Otherwise easy to make a mistake, especially a year from now when you forget how it is wired.. I sure would not run 110 volt wires in and out of buildings unmarked and unprotected.

 

Dale H

 
Originally Posted by Gilly@N&W:

Use your track voltage to control this relay. Switch your accessories with the "Load" side. This is about as simple as I can think of. Were I to be trying to do this same thing on my layout, this is what I would use.

I really don't see any need what so ever for a solid state relay in this application.  Yes, it would do the job, but why spend $19 when you can do the same job with a standard relay for about $5 (or less if you do the homework) each.  If you can hear a relay clicking while your trains are running, I want to know exactly how you did your bench work and laid your track. 

 

For Garrett76, I suppose the real question is how much do you want to spend?  There are devices that exist that are already built for industrial applications running $100+ that would do the job with just a few wire connections, however doing it your self would cost about $10 or less per device, and if you built one box with several inputs and outputs, it would be much more cost effective.  I'm seeing something around $60 or so for a box that would operate 16 120VAC outlets with an 8-20 VAC input signal.  That price mostly due to making it self contained and safe.  

I've looked and have yet to find a reasonably priced (less than $10) consumer outlet that turns on during the day (light) and turns off at night (dark).  All have been so-called dusk-to-dawn outlets.  To use the light triggered method, you want a light that turns OFF when the train sits on the isolated-rail section.

 

Yes, you can use a relay to reverse the logic but here's another idea.

 

isolated rail light trigger

The incandescent bulbs in a typical string are a few volts each.  So a handful operates a typical track or accessory voltage.  The idea is to have the isolated-rail section turn off one of the bulbs; that is, one side of the overall string is tied to outer-rail common.  The isolated-rail trigger section simply cuts-off power to one bulb.  By aimed this bulb at the light sensor of a dusk-to-dawn outlet, you get 110V line power when the train is on the isolated-rail section.  Here's a short video.

 

The same logic reversal idea can be performed with LEDs and a few other 5 cent components if you don't have incandescent bulbs.

 

Separately, suppose you have a remote accessory controller like an DCS AIU or TMCC ASC. You can use a controller output to turn on/off a low-voltage light bulb or LED, and aim that bulb/LED at the sensor of a dusk-to-dawn outlet from a home improvement store.  Now you can control 110V AC devices from your train remote without having to mess with 110V AC wiring.

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Originally Posted by phillyreading:

I do not like using 120 volts directly on my layout. I use low voltage lights between 12 to 18 volts.

You could buy a string of battery powered lights at a dollar store and use a small DC power pack and a relay to operate your light effects.

Could you swap out the Department 56 light for a lower voltage one? I'm sure somebody sells a C-7 type or Candelabra bulb that uses less voltage.

 

Lee Fritz

You can also use low voltage LED lighting with a wall wart, (power pack). I've used this method for lighting my display shelves. 

Don

Stan2004 I like the idea there, but I don't know how well  it would work... And it is far less cost effective than a relay.  The reason I'm not convinced of the effectiveness is that the dusk to dawn sensor lights I've see tend to have an activation delay of 20-60 seconds before they change states.  This is built in to keep your lights from flickering off and on if a shadow passes or a car headlight , or whatever points at the sensor.  I'm using one of these to run all my landscape lights so all the transformers turn on at the same time, and when testing I need to cover the sensor for nearly a minute before the lights come on, and they stay on about as long once the sensor is exposed to daylight again.  

Originally Posted by JohnGaltLine:

...the dusk to dawn sensor lights I've see tend to have an activation delay of 20-60 seconds before they change states.  This is built in to keep your lights from flickering off and on if a shadow passes or a car headlight , or whatever points at the sensor

Good point.  You'd want one that rapidly responds to the dark-to-light or light-to-dark transition. While I don't have one, I'm fairly certain they exist because the Halloween DIY crowd uses these to create creative lighting effects by putting a flickering bulb or flickering LED in front of the sensor.  This makes a 110V AC powered lamp in a lighted pumpkin (or whatever) eerily flicker.  Here's an example photo from this blog.

 

AdjustDistance

Also, if you read the reviews for these dusk-to-dawn outlets, you'll see some complaints that they are too sensitive in that you just walk by them and the lamp turns on and off.  This suggests they don't have a delay.  And I'd think if one of these were used in a child's room to turn on a night lamp you'd want instant on.  How do you tell a child to wait one minute for the night lamp to turn on when going to bed?  We all know it's during that first minute that the bogeyman comes out to get you!

 

But to your point, there is the issue of "chatter" when using isolated-rail triggering. Dirty wheels/track lead to intermittent electrical contact.  So even if directly wiring a relay to the isolated-rail trigger wire you probably want to add some kind of delay (capacitor) to prevent relay chatter; some of the off-the-shelf isolated-rail trigger relay modules have these capacitors.  If using a dusk-to-dawn light outlet triggered by an incandescent bulb, you might get some anti-chatter protection for "free" since a filament bulb does not turn on/off instantly.  You also get some anti-chatter protection from the photocell-photoresistive (CdS) sensors used in these devices which are not known for their instant response.  In any event, the next step if anyone is still following this would be to iron out the wrinkles.

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Originally Posted by Garrett76:

  I'm an amateur with electric stuff.  Thanks

All these suggestions are good but if you are an amateur with electric stuff, I recommend that you not play with 110 V circuits. Stick with low voltage circuits until you are familiar with the basics. You can learn a lot by fiddling with low voltage and it's a lot safer.

Track activation should be done with either a 12 VAC coil relay or 24 VAC coil relay.  It would be difficult to find an 18 VAC coil relay.  Most contact ratings are 120 or240 volt so the contacts would switch the 110 volt load.  I used one recently for the Fort Pitt HiRailers Animation module.  There were a couple of components supplied with 110 volt motors, Activation was with push buttons, we didn't want to provide public push buttons @ 110 volts/ IMO much safer at no more than 18 Volts.  

 

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