LionChief Gateway Project (3-29-21 Update)

I would like a Bluetooth device I could mount in one of my Box Cars and play music, train sounds, voice or what ever comes up. That would be cool too.

i have a blue tooth speaker I temporarily mount in a car but it has to he recharged regularly. If you had something like that where track power can charge it up, I am all in

@PSU1980 Groove cube or this one would work.  You can power it with this.  

Brendan

@PSU1980, the power board @Brendan just suggested definitely seems like a good idea, however you just gave me an idea, I think I will try to whip up a soundboard that can be controlled from the universal LionChief remote. I would use the speed knob for sound track selection. You could turn the knob for a certain sound and press a button to trigger it. I would technically be simulating a train to the remote, I could probably repurpose the bell button for light control in cars with lights.

Sounds like a terrific add-on to the existing technology and hardware.  Keep us informed please.  LionChief is one the great inexpensive command control values in model railroading.

@PSU1980 I just went to microcenter and picked up components to prototype the Bluetooth box car module I had in mind. This is not going to be a simple Bluetooth speaker but a standalone mp3/mp4 file player that uses an SD card for storage. If I can figure out the code side of it it will be controlled via the LC universal remote. 

I feel like I should probably end up putting the audio module discussion in a topic of it's own soon. The dual speakers (stereo audio) plus the microcontroller, Bluetooth module, mp3 module, and power supply all fit within 1-1/4 inches of hight, 4-3/4 inches of length, and 1-3/8 inches of width. That has the option of running on a battery or a power pickup from the car (probably a light bulb wire). 

Here are some pictures of that sound package: 

There is a thread in the O27 forum about putting sounds in cars. Lots of great ideas there, for using track voltage. 

Brendan posted:

@PSU1980 Groove cube or this one would work.  You can power it with this.  

Brendan

 

Brendan,

that’s a cool find for stepping down the power. Is it a constant DC output, if the input AC varies? I power my track with a z4000. Somewhere between 18 and 22 Vac. I’m definitely not consistent. 
thanks

Marty

Marty R posted:

Brendan posted:

@PSU1980 Groove cube or this one would work.  You can power it with this.  

Brendan

 

Brendan,

that’s a cool find for stepping down the power. Is it a constant DC output, if the input AC varies? I power my track with a z4000. Somewhere between 18 and 22 Vac. I’m definitely not consistent. 
thanks

Marty

@Marty R I can answer that, The voltage you chose with the little screw potentiometer is fixed to within a few thousandths of a volt. I just tested an almost identical buck converter board on my Z1000 transformer and as long as the transformer was putting out more than 6 volts I was getting an almost perfect constant 5 volts output. That regulator can handle more than these transformers put out. Just test with a meter to make sure you have the output dialed in correctly first since these are adjustable regulators.

For several years, a number of my BlueRail Trains equipped bluetooth controlled engines included an on-board bluetooth amplifier and speaker. The BlueRail app connects with the amp and provides a wide variety of sounds. Power to the amp is regulated to 5V and is sourced from either track AC or DC.

BOB WALKER posted:

For several years, a number of my BlueRail Trains equipped bluetooth controlled engines included an on-board bluetooth amplifier and speaker. The BlueRail app connects with the amp and provides a wide variety of sounds. Power to the amp is regulated to 5V and is sourced from either track AC or DC.

Certainly a nice package there, nice to see, Even before I really got going into trains again like this I have heard of BlueRail. At this point I have a personal goal to get the official LC remote to send commands to a device of my own design and after that my plans open up a bit.

I will likely try to make a new sound board/amp package that gets triggered by the LC Universal remote(I would like to gauge the interest level in this on the forums) as an alternative to using phones. Maybe people would like the ability to keep cell phones out of the train room as a way to show kids these days that there are things that can be done without a smartphone. 

Also as I just added to my first post, my top priority end game right now is to create a gateway that allows me to add external speed limits and momentum to the LC remotes and official app. As we know the LC app's momentum and speed limit settings do not apply to the non app based remotes. You can't just set the speed limit in the app and then hand a child the LC remote with a new speed limit applied to it. Same thing with Momentum. If we want to simulate a heavily loaded LC based freight train with momentum, the only current option is to use the LC phone app. My gateway will in theory allow me to implement those options as a master setting for all remote options. That way when you want to impose a speed limit for anyone who uses any remote it will be an option. With expansion interfaces I should also be able to have my gateway allow multiple remotes on one LC engine at the same time. Maybe allow you to designate a supervisor remote that overrides all other remotes. maybe you want multiple remotes to be able to trigger the horns and bells separately. Maybe you want a horn only remote that ignores speed input that you can hand to any kid without the chance of them creating a collision situation. All this is possible now that I cracked the code of these remotes.

Sounds terrific.  I'd buy in as I have many LC and LC+ remotes and a universal remote.  I prefer dedicated remotes to smart devices.  I think the LionChief system is a great beginner's system and your plans seem to allow that to grow in features and complexity.  

And Lionel probably sells 100 to 1000 times as many LionChief equipped sets as Legacy systems each year. Just guessing.

Exactly, I mean you can literally buy several LCs for the price of one legacy anyway. plus however many Bluetooth LC engines already are out there. 

One thing I have in mind for my LC gateway is setting up an ATC or even ATO function. I in my simple two level track only layout that I setup so far, I have an issue where my LC based M7 can derail depending on the position of a track switch when coming down hill as it gains a bit too much speed for the switch to handle it seems. Well I will try and add sensors to the track that will add a temporary speed limit to the train on its way down the incline (and only when it heads down hill since I need the speed to make it up said incline) and release the limit after the switch. an option that may also allow me to run tighter turns at "full tilt". I imagine such speed zones would also be nice for those with layouts including hard to reach switches (that they may want to always run slowly over). I have had Fast Track remote switches for example that only like being run below half throttle due to a manufacturing defect in the switch.(In my case that switch has since been replaced at no charge thankfully)

Breakthrough update added to my original post. I can now connect the LC remote and app to my own interface. A critical step for my gateway. Just need yet another interface board to get a demo of the gateway up and running before 2020 hits. Let's see if I can get remote control remapping done in the next 24 hours.

I finally made a big enough breakthrough worth posting in this original thread. Watch my new update video to see the official Lionchief Remote app controlling some postwar operating accessories. https://youtu.be/ZtITYrEDdwc

Nice work.  Perhaps Lionel would be interested in contracting with you to develop this as full blown commercial project?

Landsteiner posted:

Nice work.  Perhaps Lionel would be interested in contracting with you to develop this as full blown commercial project?

Thank you, and as they say, your lips to God's ears lol. Either  that or a greenlight/LCS Partnership would be great. Though a contract would be a dream of course! I love my current job (Though not as cool as Lionel) but some contract stuff on the side would be amazing right now.

As soon as I can afford an LC+ locomotive I will be testing multi engine simultaneous controll from the app. I even have a plan to let you calibrate the speed of the locomotives.

In the meantime I will keep adding on new features to this gateway. I haven't run out of ideas yet. I would hope that the community can see this and possibly think of things they would like to do with LionChief if anything were possible. I have a feeling multi engine lash-ups are high on that list. 

Nice work Ryan...pretty cool engineering on your part!

-Russ 

I think it might be worth emailing Ryan Kunkle and/or David Olsen with links to your YouTube page and these threads.  Perhaps let them know you'd love to develop this further with their assistance/collaboration, and that perhaps they would consider providing you with a Legacy base and a couple of LionChief locos to facilitate this process.  State that you are open to anything from just their assistance to a formal developer status with Lionel, the latter with all the usual NDAs and lawyerly necessities, but that you realize it's their call.

If they are interested in the intellectual property perhaps a more formal contract and co-development arrangement (paid) could come now or down the road.  Back in the day, Lionel provided some folks who had technical skills (including a few who eventually became key Lionel employees) with early products for testing and suggestions. 

As you may know, for example, a guy named Jon Zahornacky developed TMCC receiver/command modules at the Electric Railroad Co.  He later became Lionel's chief technology officer and they bought out ERR from him.  Mike Reagan at TrainAmerica Studios, had Bob Krivacic design a similar device that was quite popular in the late 1990s and early 2000s, if I remember the years correctly.  These guys were gifted as product developers/engineers with day jobs but were entirely hobbyists in this regard, at least initially. 

Mike Reagan became an important executive at Lionel for many years in a variety of capacities.  Perhaps the current management are still open to such arrangements?  Worth a try.  If they say no, you can proceed on your own, since you are initially doing this for your own amusement and for the community good.  Hopefully they won't go all MTH on you and have their lawyers tell you you cannot develop or sell such products.  Obviously they cannot stop you from playing with the equipment in any way you like, whatever their lawyers say . They have no legal basis to do that. You bought it and can do with it whatever you like as long as you don't sell it. I very much doubt they will take that course, but it's a possibility.  Would be very disappointing if they did, and they would hear about it from lots of folks who benefited from the efforts at Train America and ERR in their day, including me.